Lease - landlord selling property

cocaholic

We have just been notified that the landlord wants to sell the house to put it on the market.

We have been renting this house since last Summer and the lease is not due to be up till August.

Do we have legal rights to stay in this house until the lease is up or what's the story?

April 73

Is there a clause in your lease that allows your landlord to break the lease if he wants to sell?

tuisginideach

Do you mean he is asking you to leave in order to put it on the market or has he just told you he will be selling it? Selling it will probably takes the guts of four months anyway so if you facilitate viewings and tidiness etc, he may well agree to have you there til it sells.

MarkAnthony

You're under no obligation to facilitate viewings but if you want to stay for a bit I'd personally keep the LL on side within reason.

Legal advice can't be given here and no one has your lease agreement so can't say for sure.

Graham

cocaholic wrote: »

Do we have legal rights to stay in this house until the lease is up or what's the story?

If you have a fixed term lease you would need to check the specific terms of the lease to answer your question.

Read through your lease to see if there is a break clause allowing the landlord to terminate the lease to sell the property.

whiskeyman

At what stage would you expect a LL to give notice to tenants?
Would they do it when they put it on sale for proper, or wait until sale agreed or contracts signed?

tuisginideach

Depends on how tidy the tenant is!

size5

If he is going to put it on the market & only if you have no other options one thing you could do is

-agree to showings of buyer to the house BUT on the condition that you get a substantial rent reduction whilst the house is on the market.

-LL may not be happy with his reduced monthly income BUT at least he has some income. As putting the house on market & close of sale could be 4-6months without any income.

-Allows you time to save for next house rent etc

matt-dublin

Landlord only has to give you a months notice to evict under a year from what I remember.

He's well within his right to sell and I think you probably should facilitate otherwise it might affect your reference

Clampdown

matt-dublin wrote: »

Landlord only has to give you a months notice to evict under a year from what I remember.

He's well within his right to sell and I think you probably should facilitate otherwise it might affect your reference

Sorry but you're wrong, with a fixed term lease in place the tenant is secure until the lease is up.

Baby01032012

size5 wrote: »

If he is going to put it on the market & only if you have no other options one thing you could do is

-agree to showings of buyer to the house BUT on the condition that you get a substantial rent reduction whilst the house is on the market.

-LL may not be happy with his reduced monthly income BUT at least he has some income. As putting the house on market & close of sale could be 4-6months without any income.

-Allows you time to save for next house rent etc

Why would you hold the landlord to ransom

The tenant is still bound by the terms of his lease and agreed rent must

If tenant is not happy then give the appropriate notice

As landlord must do so as well

athtrasna

Baby01032012 wrote: »

If tenant is not happy then give the appropriate notice

As landlord must do so as well

Only possible if the lease has a break clause.

Bigus

How much notice has the LL given ?

super_furry

Your best bet is to negotiate a big rent reduction to facilitate viewings and start looking for somewhere else.

whiskeyman

Clampdown wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong, with a fixed term lease in place the tenant is secure until the lease is up.

This says otherwise?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

Providing reasons for termination
Tenancies that are governed by Part 4 of the 2004 Act run in 4-year cycles. During the first 6 months of a tenancy, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason (unless you have a fixed-term tenancy) but must serve a valid written notice of termination, allowing a minimum 28-day notice period.

For a tenancy that has lasted between 6 months and 4 years – known as a Part 4 tenancy – the landlord can end it only in the following circumstances:

If you do not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
If the property is no longer suited to your needs (for example, if it is overcrowded)
If the landlord intends to sell the property within 3 months
or for the following specific purposes:

If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member
If the landlord intends to refurbish the property substantially
If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (for example, convert it to office use)
When the 4-year cycle of the tenancy has ended, a new tenancy starts, known as a further Part 4 tenancy. As at the start of your original tenancy, your landlord may end this tenancy at any time during the next 6 months without having to give a reason – though you must now get 112 days’ notice (16 weeks). After 6 months you again acquire security of tenure and you are now 6 months into a further 4-year cycle.

Graham

whiskeyman wrote: »

This says otherwise?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

That link refers to a part 4 tenancy so there is no mention of the additional rights granted by a fixed term lease.

matt-dublin

Clampdown wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong, with a fixed term lease in place the tenant is secure until the lease is up.

actually, not quite, the landlord can sell prior to the term with one months notice as long as a notice period is covered in the contract.

see below:
Providing reasons for termination
Tenancies that are governed by Part 4 of the 2004 Act run in 4-year cycles. During the first 6 months of a tenancy, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason (unless you have a fixed-term tenancy) but must serve a valid written notice of termination, allowing a minimum 28-day notice period.

For a tenancy that has lasted between 6 months and 4 years – known as a Part 4 tenancy – the landlord can end it only in the following circumstances:

If you do not comply with the obligations of the tenancy
If the property is no longer suited to your needs (for example, if it is overcrowded)
If the landlord intends to sell the property within 3 months
or for the following specific purposes:

If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member
If the landlord intends to refurbish the property substantially
If the landlord plans to change the business use of the property (for example, convert it to office use)
When the 4-year cycle of the tenancy has ended, a new tenancy starts, known as a further Part 4 tenancy. As at the start of your original tenancy, your landlord may end this tenancy at any time during the next 6 months without having to give a reason – though you must now get 112 days’ notice (16 weeks). After 6 months you again acquire security of tenure and you are now 6 months into a further 4-year cycle.

accensi0n

matt-dublin wrote: »

actually, not quite, the landlord can sell prior to the term with one months notice as long as a notice period is covered in the contract.

The OP's lease is not up until August. Unless there is a specific clause in his lease, he is secure until the end of his lease, the landlord cannot end the tenancy before then. The landlord can provide notice of termination before then, but he can't actually have the tenant leave before the end of the lease.

matt-dublin

accensi0n wrote: »

The OP's lease is not up until August. Unless there is a specific clause in his lease, he is secure until the end of his lease, the landlord cannot end the tenancy before then. The landlord can provide notice of termination before then, but he can't actually have the tenant leave before the end of the lease.

Yes he can, he just needs to give the correct notice as he needs it back for his own requirements.

I know this because I did it myself and checked it up with the PRTB.

And don't forget, if you flick through most common leases, it's a minimum term not a fixed term. The minimem term is there to protect the landlords income and it will state that the tenant will potentially have to fulfill the cost of the full lease if they leave early.

There will also be clauses in there as to why the landlord can cease and the easiest way to do it is to reference the tenancies act and terminate it under the above reasons I listed which are clearly documented

Graham

matt-dublin wrote: »

Yes he can, he just needs to give the correct notice as he needs it back for his own requirements.

I know this because I did it myself and checked it up with the PRTB.

And don't forget, if you flick through most common leases, it's a minimum term not a fixed term. The minimem term is there to protect the landlords income and it will state that the tenant will potentially have to fulfill the cost of the full lease if they leave early.

There will also be clauses in there as to why the landlord can cease and the easiest way to do it is to reference the tenancies act and terminate it under the above reasons I listed which are clearly documented

A fixed term lease grants the tenant greater security over and above that provided by a Part 4 tenancy. Unless there is a specific break clause in the lease the landlord cannot end the tenancy early.

Fixed Term Tenancies
A landlord can only terminate a fixed term tenancy where the tenant has been in breach of his or her obligations. Accordingly, a landlord cannot rely on the provisions of Section 34, to terminate a fixed term tenancy during the fixed term.

Source http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

matt-dublin

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

Termination for specific purposes
If the landlord needs the property for their own use or for an immediate family member, you must be given the following information in writing, along with the notice of termination:

The name of the person
Their relationship to the landlord and
How long they will occupy the dwelling
You must also be told that if the person leaves within 6 months and you have given the landlord your contact details, the landlord must offer you a tenancy. However, this requirement does not apply if your tenancy is being ended due to a breach of your obligations, overcrowding, the property being sold, or change of use.

If the landlord intends to refurbish the property to the extent that it needs to be vacant, they must state the nature of the works in writing, along with the notice of termination. You must also be told that if the dwelling becomes available for letting and you have given the landlord your contact details, they must offer you a tenancy. Again, this requirement does not apply if your tenancy is being ended due to a breach of your obligations, overcrowding, the property being sold, or change of use.

If the landlord intends to change the use of the property (and has obtained any necessary planning permission) they must state the change of use in writing, along with the notice of termination. You must also be told that if the dwelling becomes available for re-letting within 6 months and you have given the landlord your contact details, they must offer you a tenancy. This requirement does not apply if your tenancy is being ended due to a breach of your obligations, overcrowding, or the property being sold.

Sections 28 and 29 of the 2015 Act provide for extra information and documents to be required in certain circumstances, including those listed above. These sections are not yet in effect.

If your landlord ends your tenancy for a specific purpose and subsequently does not carry out the intention stated, you can report them to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB), which will investigate your claim and take further action as appropriate.

Landlord can notify you of eviction for his own use without penalty.

He can then sell the property.

If the propoperty comes back up for rent and it's the same landlord letting it, he has to give you first refusal.

This falls under the fixed term contract.

matt-dublin

And just to put this to bed, here's a sample eviction notice for intent to sell.

From the PRTB themselves.

http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/landlord-intends-to-sell-the-dwelling.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Graham

matt-dublin wrote: »

And just to put this to bed, here's a sample eviction notice for intent to sell.

From the PRTB themselves.

http://www.prtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/landlord-intends-to-sell-the-dwelling.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Which applies to part 4 tenancies NOT fixed term leases.

It cannot be used to end a fixed term lease unless there is a specific break clause in the lease.

matt-dublin

Fixed term falls under part 4 once they're older than 6 months.

PRTB:

existence of a fixed term tenancy does not preclude the operation of Part 4. Part 4 runs with a fixed term tenancy, so that the continuous occupation by a tenant under a fixed term tenancy for a period of 6 months, means the tenant shall, as in the normal course, become entitled to the protections of a Part 4 tenancy. In cases of fixed term tenancies however, the rights under Part 4 only apply to the extent that they benefit the tenant over and above the rights afforded to him or her under the terms of the fixed term tenancy.

If the landlord doesn't declare the break clauses in the contract, the breaks in the part 4 apply.

If what you said was true then no one would be able to evict anyone.

Landlords who couldn't afford mortgages, banks to foreclose becoming default landlords etc.

Graham

Oh good grief:

PRTB even publish a handy checklist for landlords

CHECKLIST FOR LANDLORD SERVING A VALID NOTICE OF TERMINATION

Did you sign a fixed term lease?

--//--

In a fixed term lease, a Notice of Termination can be served for the following 3 reasons:

• There is a break clause in the lease agreement.
• Both parties agree to terminating the tenancy.
• The tenant breached his or her obligations and has been given reasonable time to rectify the breach, then 28 days notice is required.

Source: http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/checklist-for-landlord-serving-a-valid-notice-of-termination

matt-dublin

Graham wrote: »

Oh good grief:

PRTB even publish a handy checklist for landlords


Source: http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/checklist-for-landlord-serving-a-valid-notice-of-termination

Yes, break clause in the agreement, which most would do.

After six months into the fixed term and no break clause exists then the part 4 rules apply.

matt-dublin

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

Graham

matt-dublin wrote: »

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

Are you reading the pages you're linking to?

Greater Security of Tenure
Landlords and tenants are free to agree as part of the tenancy arrangement, more beneficial rights in favour of the tenant, than are created by Part 4. This is permitted by Section 26 of the Act. Accordingly a landlord and a tenant may agree a greater security of tenure in favour of a tenant. An example of this is where a landlord and tenant agree that the tenancy will be for a fixed term.

Hollister11

AFAIK your entitle to stay there until whoever owns the property issues notice.

matt-dublin

Graham wrote: »

Are you reading the pages you're linking to?

Greater Security of Tenure
Landlords and tenants are free to agree as part of the tenancy arrangement, more beneficial rights in favour of the tenant, than are created by Part 4. This is permitted by Section 26 of the Act. Accordingly a landlord and a tenant may agree a greater security of tenure in favour of a tenant. An example of this is where a landlord and tenant agree that the tenancy will be for a fixed term.

Yes they are free to agree more beneficial rights to favour the tenant, you're right.

The thing is, most fixed term leases will have a break clause. Which will include a get out of jail free card for a landlord.

If the lease doesn't have one then the landlords solicitor isn't worth ****e.

Graham

matt-dublin wrote: »

The thing is, most fixed term leases will have a break clause. Which will include a get out of jail free card for a landlord.

They mostly don't although it is becoming more common hence my advice in post #5 of this thread

Graham wrote: »

Read through your lease to see if there is a break clause allowing the landlord to terminate the lease to sell the property.

Added: Without the specific break clause, the tenant is secure until the end of the lease.