Am I going to fail honours maths?

NotInTheMood

Alright lads, basically, I got 33% in my pre, and I don't know if I'm going to pass or not. Teacher and I really don't get along, she just wants me out of her class at this point haha. I've done a bit of work since the pre, about an hour for it most nights, but that's me struggling through one question, and I won't have that time on the day.

Honestly, do they fail people often? If I were an examiner I'd feel fair bad if I had to fail someone, and therefore the entire LC, but I could just be saying that because I'm in that position!!

The biggest problem is my teacher, she really just doesn't think I'll make it. Plus she absolutely terrifies me haha, she could ask me what 2+2 is any day, and I'd just start stuttering in front of the whole class. She has us doing another two papers after school on 2 days in mid May, so obviously that will be a good indicator of where I am, but if she's there keeping an eye on us I'm afraid I'll freak out and blank it. I'd love to have an excuse to go to some other honours class, but this is the only one on that suits my timetable at school.

Basically I want to know what other people think, I'd like to do it, the points would be a help, and I've done it for the past 6 years like, she can toss off if she thinks I'll give up that easily with about 20 days of school left. If I were to get something like 35% in my exam, would they just leave me off and give me a D3? All I'm looking for is 40% like, that's not ridiculous.

Anyway, sorry for ranting, but I'm sure someone is in a similar position to me, any advice appreciated lads.

JimPatTom

I'd imagine that you are guaranteed to improve a bit on your mock result. If you're like most classes in the country, you probably hadn't the whole course even done by the pres.

Given that you'll be more familiar with the course by the time it comes around, and the fact you're doing an extra bit yourself, I'd be inclined to say you'll pass.

(On a side note, I think that if a candidate achieves more than 37% but less than 40%, the examiner can give them a D3 at their own discretion, improving your chances even more)

skippy1977

I don't know your teacher from Adam but I would say that any teacher willing to give up two of her nights to give you an extra mock in May (and correct it) can't be all bad.

It is reasonable to suggest you would come up 7% from your Mock score depending on whether you were given any hints for that Mock. If not and you are putting in an hour a night then you still have lots of time to improve. Don't count on a sympathetic corrector though. 35% will result in a fail.

5% failed the exam last year, which is on the rise suggesting that they are not going as easy on students as in the couple of years previous, especially considering that last years exam was very doable. Now based on nothing in particular I would imagine that 5% is made up mostly of students getting in the 20's in the mocks and from my experience students scoring 33% 4 months before the exam are able for it. Best of luck anyway.

spurious

Stop blaming your teacher. Look at your 33%. Why was it not higher? Did you not do enough questions? Were you only doing the lower mark 'easier' parts of the questions? Were you misunderstanding what you were being asked?

Be fully aware of where and why you lost or failed to get marks and practice as many questions as you can.

A 33% mock can of course become a pass in the exam, but the examiner will only give you marks you deserve, not marks to help you pass because they don't want to fail you.

realdanbreen

I know a chap who was in the same predicament as you. He has now decided to do the ordinary level paper where he feels a very high grade is achievable. The relief that has brought to him is palpable and it frees up time he was spending struggling with the higher maths to concentrate on other subjects. As for teachers, don't get me started. Several of them are away doing oral exams at present leaving their students who are 20 odd days away from the leaving cert siting in free classes.

spurious

realdanbreen wrote: »

As for teachers, don't get me started. Several of them are away doing oral exams at present leaving their students who are 20 odd days away from the leaving cert siting in free classes.

In many cases, this is happening because they were requested to do so by their employer (the DESS) and in others they need the agreement of their Principal/employer to be away from the school.
If you want to b**ch about someone, target the right people.

rainbowtrout

realdanbreen wrote: »

I know a chap who was in the same predicament as you. He has now decided to do the ordinary level paper where he feels a very high grade is achievable. The relief that has brought to him is palpable and it frees up time he was spending struggling with the higher maths to concentrate on other subjects. As for teachers, don't get me started. Several of them are away doing oral exams at present leaving their students who are 20 odd days away from the leaving cert siting in free classes.

If teachers didn't do the oral/practical exams then those exams wouldn't happen.

And realistically your teacher is gone for a max of 5 days. On average most students miss at least 5 days over the course of the two years leading up to the Leaving Cert. Some miss many more. I never hear them say it's the end of the world when they miss a day. At this stage of the year you should be well able to work by yourself. In the vast majority of cases the course is covered, and there are only a couple of loose ends to tie up. Stop whining about free classes, clearly if you see them as free classes, you're not doing it right. You should be using a 40 minute class to tackle one or two exam questions.

TMJM96

realdanbreen wrote: »

I know a chap who was in the same predicament as you. He has now decided to do the ordinary level paper where he feels a very high grade is achievable. The relief that has brought to him is palpable and it frees up time he was spending struggling with the higher maths to concentrate on other subjects. As for teachers, don't get me started. Several of them are away doing oral exams at present leaving their students who are 20 odd days away from the leaving cert siting in free classes.

If you're in Sixth Year and can't keep yourself occupied for a set amount of time given to you 20 days before state exams, you're the problem.

Back to OP, yes it's possible to go up to a D3. In my class of about 18, I think 5 passed the Mock. I went from 33% like you to a C3, just due to constant work. Out of the year of about 40 who sat HL Maths, two failed. They both got below 20% in their Mock exam and both did very little work in Maths and their other subjects (both back repeating). A guy in my class went from 16% to a D3.

Honestly, you have so little time left in school that the teacher isn't really worth worrying over. Just keep your head down, do your work and participate.

Back to examiners, they're strict. I got 59.5% in my Maths and I was stuck at that after a recheck. It's tough but fair.

skippy1977

TMJM96 wrote: »

Back to examiners, they're strict. I got 59.5% in my Maths and I was stuck at that after a recheck. It's tough but fair.

A girl in my class got 84.66... and stuck at a B after recheck....couldn't complain, it was marked fair...but was worth taking a chance!

luftmensch

skippy1977 wrote: »

A girl in my class got 84.66... and stuck at a B after recheck....couldn't complain, it was marked fair...but was worth taking a chance!

Does anyone know at what point they round up?

spurious

They don't round up. The grades are done on marks, not percentages.

skippy1977

luftmensch wrote: »

Does anyone know at what point they round up?

They don't. They go by marks rather than percent, so in Maths your paper is out of 600...so 508/600 is 84.666... 509/600 is 84.833...

You need 510/600 for an A2.

WorthlessPeon

While we're on the topic...anyone have any tips for a high grade in maths? I'm somewhat decent (Got a C1 in the mocks) but I would love a higher grade.

What's worked for people? Constant exam papers?

realdanbreen

spurious wrote: »

In many cases, this is happening because they were requested to do so by their employer (the DESS) and in others they need the agreement of their Principal/employer to be away from the school.
If you want to b**ch about someone, target the right people.

You think that was b***hing? Like I said don't get me started. Is giving grinds @ €45 per hour to pupils in the class that you are teaching during the day morally or ethicaly correct? Is it right that a teacher who is unable to prevent a couple of unruly pupils from constantly disrupting a class, therefore unable to teach the class, cannot be removed from teaching that class?

TMJM96

WorthlessPeon wrote: »

While we're on the topic...anyone have any tips for a high grade in maths? I'm somewhat decent (Got a C1 in the mocks) but I would love a higher grade.

What's worked for people? Constant exam papers?

It's very difficult to advise people on how to get a high grade as it simply comes down to aptitude and how they perform on the day. A C1 is a very good grade for a Maths mock so just keep going. Maybe try and get a previous mock off your teacher with a marking scheme and do it at the weekend in exam conditions?

TSMGUY

realdanbreen wrote: »

You think that was b***hing? Like I said don't get me started. Is giving grinds @ €45 per hour to pupils in the class that you are teaching during the day morally or ethicaly correct? Is it right that a teacher who is unable to prevent a couple of unruly pupils from constantly disrupting a class, therefore unable to teach the class, cannot be removed from teaching that class?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

blackbird 49

My son did his Leaving Cert last year, he got 38% in his mocks, all he wanted was a D3 just to get the pass, it did help he was getting grinds as the teacher he had wasn't great, he knuckled now and got a C3 which he was chuffed, my other son did his in 2011 he got 22% in his mocks,said he was going to drop, he was getting grinds at the time, who told him to keep at it he did and got a C1, if you feel yes I can do it and pull up even just to get the past go ahead, maybe if you can afford it for the last couple of weeks you could get grinds, either way good luck

KenjiOdo

If it was start of year i'd say drop down.. Use the time saved to invest in other subjects..

I failed mocks 32%? can't remember.. but got D1 in real thing but invested a whole lot more than 1hr a night..

In hindsight I would have dropped down at start of sixth year and used that time for studying other subjects. This was before bonus 25pts for higher too so didn't make any sense.. Wish a teacher/guidance councillor knew better and pointed it out to me at the time.. I could have averaged a better leaving cert that way. I might be wrong but very few courses require Higher Level? Engineering is probably one..

Anyway best of luck with your decision and good luck with the leaving cert.

skippy1977

WorthlessPeon wrote: »

While we're on the topic...anyone have any tips for a high grade in maths? I'm somewhat decent (Got a C1 in the mocks) but I would love a higher grade.

What's worked for people? Constant exam papers?

Try and see as many different types of question as possible. Look at past papers (mocks if you can get them), relevant old course questions (can get these on examinations.ie), revision chapters of the text books. This can help you see the different ways questions are asked.

The more you have seen the more you can handle the variations in the way questions are asked. For example last years Paper 2 Question 7 was practically identical to 2002 Q4.
Paper 1 Question 2 was the same as 2002 Q1 (a).
Paper 1 Question 5 was the same as 2002 Q1 (b)

2015 Question 1 about the bouncing ball would not have seen in any past Project Maths Papers BUT the almost identical question appears as a Revision Question in one of the popular Text Books.

The samples at the end of the papers are pretty good for asking questions that have yet to be asked in the official Project Maths papers....so don't ignore them.

thisistough

I think unless you are at A1 level in all of your other subjects then the time you are spending trying to pass honours maths would probably be better spent elsewhere. I don't think it's worth the risk of having to repeat maths next year. It also depends on why you're doing honours, if it's a case that you need it for a college course then you should consider the fact that college maths is a lot tougher than LC and it might not be the right choice. If you're doing it for the bonus points then ploughing your time into your other subjects by freeing up your time could yield you the same result with a lot less stress

KenjiOdo

thisistough wrote: »

I think unless you are at A1 level in all of your other subjects then the time you are spending trying to pass honours maths would probably be better spent elsewhere. I don't think it's worth the risk of having to repeat maths next year. It also depends on why you're doing honours, if it's a case that you need it for a college course then you should consider the fact that college maths is a lot tougher than LC and it might not be the right choice. If you're doing it for the bonus points then ploughing your time into your other subjects by freeing up your time could yield you the same result with a lot less stress

agree with this but as stated he has 20days left, its a tough call, if (s)he can spend those 20 days upping grades in other subjects it might be an option but realistically would that be possible this late ??

TSMGUY

KenjiOdo wrote: »

agree with this but as stated he has 20days left, its a tough call, if (s)he can spend those 20 days upping grades in other subjects it might be an option but realistically would that be possible this late ??

40 days left until the exam. OP seems to be under the impression that it's the teachers job to teach him everything and that he can't study on his own time. This whole thread is hilarious. The teacher has no control over which exam paper OP will be sitting so even if he "drops down" it won't matter.

OP, if you really want to do honours maths start studying and stop scapegoating your teacher for everything. At this point everything's in your hands.

thisistough

KenjiOdo wrote: »

agree with this but as stated he has 20days left, its a tough call, if (s)he can spend those 20 days upping grades in other subjects it might be an option but realistically would that be possible this late ??

Agreed, it's tough this late in the ear but I think it's better to make the decision late than not make it at all! I think a lot can be done within 20 days. Depending on the school/student a lot of people would be finished the course by no and just doing study. So with 20 days left and 10 hours study per day, presuming 8 subjects that's 25 hours of study per subject, which could make a massive difference either way! I know that if I'm struggling with one subject all of my time seems to be spent on that and all of my other subjects suffer as a result

nikkibikki

My LC was well before the bonus points so hence this question. How many bonus points do you get? If it is only 25 I would do the pass paper if it were me. You'll fly it. I went back to pass in January of my LC year. Didn't do a tap in Maths for rest of the year and got an A1 so that was 60points. I would have had to put a good lot of work into getting 60 points in the honours paper and I was able to concentrate on my other subjects. At that stage, I was more concerned about the total amount of points I would get for college and I def made up the difference in points. Ended up doing Arts and did Maths Studies as part of it. First year was basically the LC honours course. So if your plan is to study maths in 3rd level, you still can!

But I'd say you could still pass the honours with hard work and good grinds if you can. Sounds as if the teacher makes you anxious so forget about her. You won't have to see her for much longer. You could see if your principal will let you go study in the school library during your maths classes instead of going to her class.

TMJM96

nikkibikki wrote: »

My LC was well before the bonus points so hence this question. How many bonus points do you get? If it is only 25 I would do the pass paper if it were me. You'll fly it. I went back to pass in January of my LC year. Didn't do a tap in Maths for rest of the year and got an A1 so that was 60points. I would have had to put a good lot of work into getting 60 points in the honours paper and I was able to concentrate on my other subjects. At that stage, I was more concerned about the total amount of points I would get for college and I def made up the difference in points. Ended up doing Arts and did Maths Studies as part of it. First year was basically the LC honours course. So if your plan is to study maths in 3rd level, you still can!

But I'd say you could still pass the honours with hard work and good grinds if you can. Sounds as if the teacher makes you anxious so forget about her. You won't have to see her for much longer. You could see if your principal will let you go study in the school library during your maths classes instead of going to her class.

You get +25 points for passing the paper, so a D3 at HL is worth more than an A1 at OL which is why many weaker students stick at it.

rainbowtrout

TMJM96 wrote: »

You get +25 points for passing the paper, so a D3 at HL is worth more than an A1 at OL which is why many weaker students stick at it.

True, but a person scraping a D3 in the HL paper is getting 70 points and a person getting an A1 in OL is getting 60. It's 10 points but given the gulf between the HL and OL workload, the extra time freed up from moving to OL could be used to improve other subjects to make up the 10 points (or perhaps more) in a lot of cases.

darlett

realdanbreen wrote: »

You think that was b***hing? Like I said don't get me started. Is giving grinds @ €45 per hour to pupils in the class that you are teaching during the day morally or ethicaly correct? Is it right that a teacher who is unable to prevent a couple of unruly pupils from constantly disrupting a class, therefore unable to teach the class, cannot be removed from teaching that class?

Genuine advice for you is to stop discussing ethics etc online for the next 6 weeks. Give yourself a complete boards.ie, facebook, youtube ban. Your future self won't regret it. Any time you feel the urge, open your exam paper books instead and tackle into it.

TMJM96

rainbowtrout wrote: »

True, but a person scraping a D3 in the HL paper is getting 70 points and a person getting an A1 in OL is getting 60. It's 10 points but given the gulf between the HL and OL workload, the extra time freed up from moving to OL could be used to improve other subjects to make up the 10 points (or perhaps more) in a lot of cases.

Very true, higher risk of also failing if they're scraping for the D3. OT but, with the intro of the new grading scheme, are they getting rid of the bonus points?

rainbowtrout

TMJM96 wrote: »

Very true, higher risk of also failing if they're scraping for the D3. OT but, with the intro of the new grading scheme, are they getting rid of the bonus points?

No, they'll still be on offer.

MomijiHime

darlett wrote: »

Genuine advice for you is to stop discussing ethics etc online for the next 6 weeks. Give yourself a complete boards.ie, facebook, youtube ban. Your future self won't regret it. Any time you feel the urge, open your exam paper books instead and tackle into it.

This. If you use a PC I'd recommend 'Cold Turkey'. I just tried it for like 10 days and ughhh it was so annoying but it works.