Ni-Oh (PS4)

Grahamer666

sticker wrote: »

Can you switch modes again in-game? I dont see an option after I've chosen cinema mode...

Only from the main menu.

johnny_ultimate

On to the second region now -

the frogs don't carry over

- and enjoying it a lot. Feel a tad over-levelled but enjoying the pretty fast pace that results from that. Appreciate how varied the sub-missions are so far - nice mix of enemy rushes, standalone mini-levels and optional bosses (last one in the first region is a great, straight-up duel). I'm going for a nice balanced build with axe as primary weapon, although focusing on magic rather than ninja skills. Also, if you don't have the Ki dodge moves upgrade them immediately.

Still think the game throws way too many weapons and too much armour at you, but thankfully the blacksmith has a 'disassemble all' button. Some levels homage Dark Souls a bit too much (currently in a cave with poison gas filled lower levels which is incredibly familiar) but there's enough original ideas elsewhere to keep things engaging. Find the enemy variety just a tad lacking so far as well. But for the most part it runs great, plays great and feels challenging without being frustrating (yet). It lacks that extra layer of FromSoft artistry (<3 Yarnham), but about time Team Ninja are back on form doing what they're good at.

Pickpocket

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'd take Ni-oh's visual downgrade to give consistent 60 FPS over bloodborne's frame drops and frame pacing issues.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think what's being said is that Nioh's overall aesthetic is lacking, not simply that some of the textures are flat, etc. For the record I think it looks great, but I understand where the criticism is coming from. There's some brilliant enemy design and at times it pops with colour, but the art-direction is nowhere near the level of Bloodborne's and, correct me if I'm wrong, that has nothing to do with maximising the technical performance.

johnny_ultimate

Pickpocket wrote: »

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think what's being said is that Nioh's overall aesthetic is lacking, not simply that some of the textures are flat, etc. For the record I think it looks great, but I understand where the criticism is coming from. There's some brilliant enemy design and at times it pops with colour, but the art-direction is nowhere near the level of Bloodborne's and, correct me if I'm wrong, that has nothing to do with maximising the technical performance.

Yep. Bloodborne is for my money one of the greatest achievements in video game art direction and world building. Would be wonderful if it ran as well as Nioh too, and it certainly doesn't come close - fully aware of Bloodborne's technical issues. But aesthetically BB is a near peerless masterpiece, which I can't imagine is a particularly controversial opinion?

Credit where credit is due in Ni-Oh, though. While so far the levels feel scattershot and a bit disjointed with little in the way of connective tissue (ditto the narrative), there's some cool sights too - the rainsoaked level is a highlight indeed. Also, something neat about being able to down a cyclops with a quick arrow to the eye.

Rob2D

Pickpocket wrote: »

the art-direction is nowhere near the level of Bloodborne's

Nor can it be. They're locked to a specific time period with elements of folklore whereas BloodBorne/Souls is complete fantasy. The possibilities are endless there.

I think the Nioh team did as good as any could do IMHO.

Pickpocket

Rob2D wrote: »

Nor can it be. They're locked to a specific time period with elements of folklore whereas BloodBorne/Souls is complete fantasy. The possibilities are endless there.

I think the Nioh team did as good as any could do IMHO.

I don't buy that for a second. You're essentially saying that a game set in a realistic setting/time period will, by definition, have inferior art direction to a game set in a fantasy world. That's complete rubbish. Look at GTAV and The Last of Us. Look at Ravenholm in Half-Life 2. I don't think you know what art-direction is.

Andrew76

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

johnny_ultimate

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

Bloodborne's art elicits an incredible sense of place and mood - stepping out into Yarnham for the first time and being greeted with the immense Gothic architecture, the glaring moon, the utter decay of the place was for me anyway a very memorable experience. Look around the environment and it will tell you a fascinating story about what happened / is happening there and hint about the bigger picture. It's all tied up in the more general direction of the game so the lines between the departments can grow a bit foggy (one of the remarkable things about a FromSoft game is how cohesive they feel as experiences) but the way the aesthetic enhances the mood, the narrative and the sense of place is absolutely incredible in Bloodborne, which IMO is the studio's finest work. The way the world extends and expands in a natural, coherent way as you navigate through it is also super impressive (and one of the things that was notably lacking in DS2, the Miyazaki-less entry in the series). The way the art design is allowed communicate so many of the nuances of the world and narrative makes it an exceedingly rare beast in the medium.

Nioh, in contrast, has some undeniably fine art and some impressive creature design, but there's just a spark missing. It's kind of hard to talk about what isn't there, but there hasn't been many if any moments where it really went a step beyond the expected, no point when I just had to stop and appreciate the view (a possible backstab be damned!). It's never less than functional, and as said credit where credit is due with what it does right. But given Nioh invites comparison with Miyazaki's work, I think this works brilliantly as a pure action game but somewhat less so an a grander scale. I think some of that is wrapped up in the way the game is structured - the levels, for example, seem like a selection of sometimes cool, sometimes merely functional locales that are clearly comparmentalised as opposed to the utterly cohesive and distinctive world of Bloodborne. I wouldn't entirely agree it's restricted by its setting either - just look at Scorsese's Silence or indeed something like Okami to see how aesthetically fetching feudal Japanese settings can be I don't want to hate on Nioh that much, though, as like I've hopefully stressed there's a lot to like about the game.

Rob2D

Pickpocket wrote: »

I don't buy that for a second. You're essentially saying that... etc..

Well yeah that's exactly what I said, or do I need to type it again? :pac:

Pickpocket wrote: »

Look at GTAV and The Last of Us. Look at Ravenholm in Half-Life 2

All look pretty boring to me. I loved going through Ravenholm as much as the next guy, but I don't exactly have pictures of it hanging on my wall.

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

Agreed. Maybe Pickpocket, the greatest art director of all time, can enlighten us.....

What should Nioh have been, Okami or something??? Doesn't really fit.

Pickpocket

Read back a few pages and you'll see that I was one of the first people to disagree with the suggestion that Nioh was a poor looking game. Pickpocket-san, the greatest art-director of all time, gave it his nod of approval, direct from his studio in Koenji.

Pickpocket

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

Just to be clear, my interpretation of previous comments was that certain people feel the game's aesthetic is 'lacking', but nobody else used that word, so blame me for that one.

I myself have commented twice on how it looks and both times I said it looked great, plus I strongly disagreed with the earlier suggestion that it looks like a 360 game. I do however feel that it doesn't hold a candle to Bloodborne. That game's aesthetic feeds into the story and the story feeds into the aesthetic, often in very direct ways (the change of colour as it shifts from classical horror to a more Lovercraftian influence). That's From's 'thing'. It's a design philosophy that Team Ninja haven't even attempted. I'm not criticising them for being bad at something they haven't even tried. That would be deeply unfair.

However, Nioh is very happy to invite comparisons with Bloodborne and Dark Souls and the overall look and significance of the environment will be a huge part of that discussion.

Pickpocket

The tonal shift in Bloodborne was one of the most unsettling things I've ever experienced in a videogame. I thought I was going to have to stop playing. The change in both colour and creature design, and how it constantly feeds back into the slowly escalating story, is just a breathtaking piece of world-building. So when I say that Nioh's overall aesthetic is poorer I don't mean that it's not as good looking, that the 'graphics' are not as detailed, or... blah blah blah. I mean that on a fundamental level the game's designers, writers and artists have not pulled together to make sure that the game's look, tone and mechanics are singing together.

You know that feeling you get when something tastes exactly as it smells (I'm sure there's a word for it). Well that's what Bloodborne is like for me. It plays exactly as it looks and it sounds exactly as it plays. That's a godawful analogy but it's the only way I can think to describe it. Nioh doesn't have that 'thing', whatever it is.

Grahamer666

I'm finding this much harder than the Souls games. I can't even get past the first boss.

Sephiroth_dude

If you're over level for a boss is it possible too kill them quick or does it depend on your stat/weapon stats etc?

johnny_ultimate

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

If you're over level for a boss is it possible too kill them quick or does it depend on your stat/weapon stats etc?

Nah I'd very much doubt you could just power through a boss with a high level (although I've taken down the last two I've fought in only one go). You still need to understand the fight at hand, and equipment is important.

Andrew76

@Johnny & Pickpocket - thanks for responding chaps. So it's not just a graphics comparison between the two, that's fair enough. It's been a long time since I've played Bloodborne so a lot of it's greatness is long forgotten I'll admit, gave up with it at that king dude on the roof, couldn't get past the fecker and never went back.

I'm finding Ni-Oh a bit more enjoyable so far, a bit less stressful for sure. Kusarigama & Ninjitsu is great fun. Going to take on the boss in the caves this evening, had one attempt yesterday and couldn't get much damage off her so need to prepare better next time.

Grahamer666 wrote: »

I'm finding this much harder than the Souls games. I can't even get past the first boss.

Took me ages to get him, found his first phase very awkward so decided to roll towards and behind him when he attackes, get in a few hits then dodge backwards twice before the swings his balls around at me (oooh matron! :pac:). Second phase was much easier to read I thought.

Grahamer666

I'll have another try again this evening. Do not want to break my controller or Audio Technica's though.:pac:

Andrew76

Grahamer666 wrote: »

I'll have another try again this evening. Do not want to break my controller or Audio Technica's though.:pac:

Several times I came close to mangling my controller.

Didn't help I also had some running commentary from a certain 6 yr old in the room - "the boss is winning, dad's going to die again..." :pac:

Once I got him to within a single hit and of course I died - but I knew then I had his number.

Retr0gamer

The petition to get this on PC just hit 10K+ signatures which is a massive amount. I'd put money on this coming to PC anyway considering when it comes to 'exclusives' Tecmo Koei are even bigger whores than Capcom. I they put Atelier Sophie and nights of azure on PC with Atelier Firis on the way I think a bigger game like Nioh is a shoe in.

bugs

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The petition to get this on PC just hit 10K+ signatures which is a massive amount. I'd put money on this coming to PC anyway considering when it comes to 'exclusives' Tecmo Koei are even bigger whores than Capcom. I they put Atelier Sophie and nights of azure on PC with Atelier Firis on the way I think a bigger game like Nioh is a shoe in.

Entirely dependent on the licensing contract with Sony. You're probably right but won't appear until that contract runs its course.

johnny_ultimate

For anyone struggling with the first few bosses:

First boss is basically there to teach you how to Ki Pulse. Mightn't completely change the playing field, but it sure as hell helps

Figure out how to tire them out. Exhaustion is a great way to land a few blows: play defensively 'til then. (second boss is particularly vulnerable during her flying moves)

Call back your living weapon at a shrine (if you're happy to lose the amrita attached) and fill up the gauge through standard enemies before heading back in. Unleash hell at opportune moment!

nix

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Call back your living weapon at a shrine (if you're happy to lose the amrita attached) and fill up the gauge through standard enemies before heading back in. Unleash hell at opportune moment!

You can also use spirit stones to build it up real quick and easy, ive gone to the point where i keep them just for that, as the amitra most of them give is marginal at the level im at currently.

What guardian spirit is everybody using? I'm using Enko with my pretty much Katana only build, but with the amount of stats/bonuses in the game i've no idea if its the best choice

johnny_ultimate

nix wrote: »

What guardian spirit is everybody using? I'm using Enko with my pretty much Katana only build, but with the amount of stats/bonuses in the game i've no idea if its the best choice

Fuse-ushi, but honestly haven't been paying much attention to mixing them up as there's indeed a lot of micromanaging stats as is.

Feel the game has hit a stride where I'm at. The Ocean Roars Again is a very nicely designed level (albeit maybe with one or two cheeky water pits too many). Major complaint remains a relative lack of variety creature-wise - feel like there hasn't been a whole lot of variety in grunts and sub-bosses / yokai so far. Even new ones tend to wear out their welcome fairly quickly.

Xenji

nix wrote: »

You can also use spirit stones to build it up real quick and easy, ive gone to the point where i keep them just for that, as the amitra most of them give is marginal at the level im at currently.

What guardian spirit is everybody using? I'm using Enko with my pretty much Katana only build, but with the amount of stats/bonuses in the game i've no idea if its the best choice

Using Usara Hicho currently as it is quite useful early game for taking on Yokai, I have been doing a dual katana build focusing on Skill/Heart/Strength so far.

Grahamer666

Grahamer666 wrote: »

I'll have another try again this evening. Do not want to break my controller or Audio Technica's though.:pac:

Finally did it. :pac:

Andrew76

Grahamer666 wrote: »

Finally did it. :pac:

Nicely done! :cool:

Popped on last night for a few minutes just to see how much amrita I left at my corpse from my first attempt at the second boss. Figured I'd just try and learn some of her moves before my inevitable death and tackle her properly another night.
Mostly kept away from her dodging like a madman, then after a while I noticed when she flies at you, you can dodge to the side and end up nice and close to her - get a few whacks in and get out of there. Throw a few bombs/kunai when she's up in the air. Rinse and repeat and 8 elixirs later and I got her! Totally forgot to use my living weapon (keep doing that). Was shaking after it. Delighted I was.

Also found out I can access the touchpad main menu on the map screen - for some reason I thought you had to be in a level to get access to it. /facepalm

Currently using Daiba-washi as my guardian spirit. Kusarigama as my main weapon, don't really use the spear much. The ranged weapons are very handy I find. Mostly putting points into Body, Skill and Dexterity at the minute. Need to start using more of the stances too, mostly using low so far.

Also need to complete some Ninja Novice level to get access to those poison bombs.

Generic Dreadhead

Cheapest place to get this new on PS4? Asking for a friend who is very interested in it

Kimbot

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Cheapest place to get this new on PS4? Asking for a friend who is very interested in it

Argos I believe 57.99

But 42 pound on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-AW2KE4M-Nioh-PS4/dp/B01AW2KE4M/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1487160332&sr=1-1&keywords=nioh

johnny_ultimate

Pumping some resources into magic is paying off. Sloth talisman married with a level 2 elemental weapon is an immensely powerful combo, absolutely demolishes yokai. Looking forward to unlocking the next tier of spells already.

Discovered that the lute players can actually summon fallen phantoms nearby Was wondering why they'd just choose to spawn themselves on occasion.

Also had my first 'stop and admire the scenery' moment

Andrew76

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Pumping some resources into magic is paying off. Sloth talisman married with a level 2 elemental weapon is an immensely powerful combo, absolutely demolishes yokai. Looking forward to unlocking the next tier of spells already.

Discovered that the lute players can actually summon fallen phantoms nearby Was wondering why they'd just choose to spawn themselves on occasion.

Also had my first 'stop and admire the scenery' moment

Lute player?

Went and did that Ninja training in the dojo to get access to poision bombs, they're handy. Also had a look at the fire wheel yokai side mission from the first level, it's nice going back to a familiar place with new challenges.

nix

Andrew76 wrote: »

Lute player?

Went and did that Ninja training in the dojo to get access to poision bombs, they're handy. Also had a look at the fire wheel yokai side mission from the first level, it's nice going back to a familiar place with new challenges.

The baldie on the guitar, anytime you see them, rifle headshot from afar for less dangerous solution. They summon the elemental heads and any fallen phantoms in the area, can get overwhelming at times. Sometimes you hear them playing before seeing them, panic :P

I was actually looking at the graphic of them in the amirita memories, their design is actually my fav. the demon is the lute whos holding the dead monks hand to play the lute

Which scene did you stop to admire Johnny?


I've been doing alot of random co-op last night, im usually only summoned for bosses which i make quick work of..... or get one shotted from not paying attention

They are handy for farming items to sell, i also got my warrior of the west bow as a reward for doing them to complete the set. Never saw any set bows up until that point.

johnny_ultimate

nix wrote: »

Which scene did you stop to admire Johnny?

First main mission in the third region, the fallen castle overrun by spiders. At one point caught a glimpse of distant defence towers and buildings bathed in moonlight. Looked great. Then back on to mowing through spiders!

Actually got a Warrior of the West bow very early on, although haven't been using the full set as have been focusing on different armour sets.

ZeitgeistGlee

Just wondering, what are most people doing with their gear overflow?

I'm seeing some places advocating offering them for amrita, while others say break them down and sell the mats, or use them to make better mats and sell them or make gear every few levels. Level 70-ish now with a smattering of 50-55 gear all from drops.

nix

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Just wondering, what are most people doing with their gear overflow?

I'm seeing some places advocating offering them for amrita, while others say break them down and sell the mats, or use them to make better mats and sell them or make gear every few levels. Level 70-ish now with a smattering of 50-55 gear all from drops.

A mix of selling or disassembling, offering is a waste the higher you get, they dont give a whole lot of amirita. I currently need 308000 amirita to level :eek:

I spent most of my resources reforging, so you need broken down equipment and gold for that, gets pricey, i went through all of my gold without realising yesterday.

ZeitgeistGlee

Yeah I figured just from my own experience that offering had to be off, no doubt it helps with the levelling (along with maybe the Toyotomi Clan boost) but even a 100 pieces worth 500 a piece wouldn't even be a level when you're in the 70s, let alone endgame.

nix

Getting kinda tired of co-op, just carried a guy all the way through the whole water boss level and got the boss to 5% hp only for him to **** the bed and die, it happens a bit too often and you get feck all out of it if you dont complete it

nix

The mission, "meeting on the other side" is the biggest load of bull**** in video gaming history. :mad::mad::mad:

weiland79

How is the level format compared to the souls open world ?

nix

weiland79 wrote: »

How is the level format compared to the souls open world ?

In between levels/missions, there is a map, and you have a hub where you can go to to access leveling, vendors etc and you choose what main mission or sub mission you want to do next and then you progress to other zones for more missions.

The hub, Think of like the firelink shrine or hunters dream but you're accessing options and menus instead of running around to NPC's.

Andrew76

Came across those lute players you mentioned so thanks for the heads up on how to deal with them.
Stuck in that same sub-mission at the minute - locked into an area with several waves of enemies. Can deal with the first 3 waves handy enough but then there's swored welding gits that are way harder.

Am I right in saying you can't quit a mission and go back to the map? You're stuck in it til it's completed?

Gunmonkey

Andrew76 wrote: »

Am I right in saying you can't quit a mission and go back to the map? You're stuck in it til it's completed?

Higamori branch, a purple item in your inventory, drops you from the mission but you lose all your Amrita (souls).

johnny_ultimate

There's an item that allows you to quit without losing anything too, check through your inventory to see if you have one!

ZeitgeistGlee

On the subject of the Biwa Boku-Boku Demons (the Lute Players), the "demon" is actually the lute itself rather than the guy playing it so aim for the lute rather than the guy's head. If you look at them in the encyclopedia thing you can actually see the hands playing the lute come from the loot itself.

Anyone figure out what the weak spot of a Tengu is? I can deal with most other enemies without too much hassle but these guys are nightmares.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There's an item that allows you to quit without losing anything too, check through your inventory to see if you have one!

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Higamori branch, a purple item in your inventory, drops you from the mission but you lose all your Amrita (souls).

That's the Himorogi Fragment you're describing, it's a purple key-item you get at the start. The Himorogi Branch is a (blue I think) one-use consumable that lets you go back to the map without losing your Amrita.

derfderf

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already in the thread, but these a sword move where you stun with the sheath, then slash. You can destroy any level reverant with the one move.
It's great for picking up higher level gear.

ZeitgeistGlee

derfderf wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned already in the thread, but these a sword move where you stun with the sheath, then slash. You can destroy any level reverant with the one move.
It's great for picking up higher level gear.

It's called Sword of Discernment, very useful.

johnny_ultimate

Got past the

White Tiger

which was a cool fight but holy hell the optional sub-boss before it was a nightmare. Same lightning enemy from the adept magic dojo mission, but hits hard and fast. Took a good half dozen tries to finally take it down (compared to two or three times for the main boss). Actually think both encounters with it have been trickier than any of the main campaign bosses to date.

Anyone know what the black crystals do in that level? I assume they give you a boost against Yokai?

Gunmonkey

The small crystals you can smash? They give you lightning resistance for a time.

I just beat that level too, tried for ages to kill that side boss so just summoned, wrecked him and tore through the boss too. Yes, I am a scrub who summons, has not "Got Gud" and has no regrets!

johnny_ultimate

Ah, lightning resistance makes sense!

Have actually avoided summoning anyone so far, which is strange because I tend to be dreadful for casually calling in help in Dark Souls. Haven't found anything too difficult yet though so we'll see if that can be kept up going into the later game stuff.

Andrew76

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Higamori branch, a purple item in your inventory, drops you from the mission but you lose all your Amrita (souls).

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There's an item that allows you to quit without losing anything too, check through your inventory to see if you have one!

Thanks chaps, have a handful of both of those items but didn't need them after all. Switched my guardian spirit to Fuse-Ushi for the extra health and damage, equipped the attack & defense talisman's and those power pills - completed it on first go after that. Actually, I really should have completed it previously as I hadn't noticed I had collected the bloody boss key and just kept fighting the re-spawns.

Disassembled all my junk gear, did some soul matching and reforging and got back out there. Lvl 40 now and on that rain level. Hooked on this game.

Andrew76

Downed two more bosses and have one more level to do before setting sail for the second region. Got some Onmyo magic armour so going to try that out for a bit rather than the ninja outfit. Trying out a tasty sword too although it's hard to move away from the kusarigama.

How to folks find the Twilight missions? One popped up on my map for lvl15, I'm lvl40 I think so should be ok?

What kind of gear are you folks rocking, light/medium/heavy? Have really only been using light so I can dodge like a pro. :pac: