Ni-Oh (PS4)

Grahamer666

sticker wrote: »

Can you switch modes again in-game? I dont see an option after I've chosen cinema mode...

Only from the main menu.

johnny_ultimate

On to the second region now -

the frogs don't carry over

- and enjoying it a lot. Feel a tad over-levelled but enjoying the pretty fast pace that results from that. Appreciate how varied the sub-missions are so far - nice mix of enemy rushes, standalone mini-levels and optional bosses (last one in the first region is a great, straight-up duel). I'm going for a nice balanced build with axe as primary weapon, although focusing on magic rather than ninja skills. Also, if you don't have the Ki dodge moves upgrade them immediately.

Still think the game throws way too many weapons and too much armour at you, but thankfully the blacksmith has a 'disassemble all' button. Some levels homage Dark Souls a bit too much (currently in a cave with poison gas filled lower levels which is incredibly familiar) but there's enough original ideas elsewhere to keep things engaging. Find the enemy variety just a tad lacking so far as well. But for the most part it runs great, plays great and feels challenging without being frustrating (yet). It lacks that extra layer of FromSoft artistry (<3 Yarnham), but about time Team Ninja are back on form doing what they're good at.

Pickpocket

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'd take Ni-oh's visual downgrade to give consistent 60 FPS over bloodborne's frame drops and frame pacing issues.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think what's being said is that Nioh's overall aesthetic is lacking, not simply that some of the textures are flat, etc. For the record I think it looks great, but I understand where the criticism is coming from. There's some brilliant enemy design and at times it pops with colour, but the art-direction is nowhere near the level of Bloodborne's and, correct me if I'm wrong, that has nothing to do with maximising the technical performance.

johnny_ultimate

Pickpocket wrote: »

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think what's being said is that Nioh's overall aesthetic is lacking, not simply that some of the textures are flat, etc. For the record I think it looks great, but I understand where the criticism is coming from. There's some brilliant enemy design and at times it pops with colour, but the art-direction is nowhere near the level of Bloodborne's and, correct me if I'm wrong, that has nothing to do with maximising the technical performance.

Yep. Bloodborne is for my money one of the greatest achievements in video game art direction and world building. Would be wonderful if it ran as well as Nioh too, and it certainly doesn't come close - fully aware of Bloodborne's technical issues. But aesthetically BB is a near peerless masterpiece, which I can't imagine is a particularly controversial opinion?

Credit where credit is due in Ni-Oh, though. While so far the levels feel scattershot and a bit disjointed with little in the way of connective tissue (ditto the narrative), there's some cool sights too - the rainsoaked level is a highlight indeed. Also, something neat about being able to down a cyclops with a quick arrow to the eye.

Rob2D

Pickpocket wrote: »

the art-direction is nowhere near the level of Bloodborne's

Nor can it be. They're locked to a specific time period with elements of folklore whereas BloodBorne/Souls is complete fantasy. The possibilities are endless there.

I think the Nioh team did as good as any could do IMHO.

Pickpocket

Rob2D wrote: »

Nor can it be. They're locked to a specific time period with elements of folklore whereas BloodBorne/Souls is complete fantasy. The possibilities are endless there.

I think the Nioh team did as good as any could do IMHO.

I don't buy that for a second. You're essentially saying that a game set in a realistic setting/time period will, by definition, have inferior art direction to a game set in a fantasy world. That's complete rubbish. Look at GTAV and The Last of Us. Look at Ravenholm in Half-Life 2. I don't think you know what art-direction is.

Andrew76

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

johnny_ultimate

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

Bloodborne's art elicits an incredible sense of place and mood - stepping out into Yarnham for the first time and being greeted with the immense Gothic architecture, the glaring moon, the utter decay of the place was for me anyway a very memorable experience. Look around the environment and it will tell you a fascinating story about what happened / is happening there and hint about the bigger picture. It's all tied up in the more general direction of the game so the lines between the departments can grow a bit foggy (one of the remarkable things about a FromSoft game is how cohesive they feel as experiences) but the way the aesthetic enhances the mood, the narrative and the sense of place is absolutely incredible in Bloodborne, which IMO is the studio's finest work. The way the world extends and expands in a natural, coherent way as you navigate through it is also super impressive (and one of the things that was notably lacking in DS2, the Miyazaki-less entry in the series). The way the art design is allowed communicate so many of the nuances of the world and narrative makes it an exceedingly rare beast in the medium.

Nioh, in contrast, has some undeniably fine art and some impressive creature design, but there's just a spark missing. It's kind of hard to talk about what isn't there, but there hasn't been many if any moments where it really went a step beyond the expected, no point when I just had to stop and appreciate the view (a possible backstab be damned!). It's never less than functional, and as said credit where credit is due with what it does right. But given Nioh invites comparison with Miyazaki's work, I think this works brilliantly as a pure action game but somewhat less so an a grander scale. I think some of that is wrapped up in the way the game is structured - the levels, for example, seem like a selection of sometimes cool, sometimes merely functional locales that are clearly comparmentalised as opposed to the utterly cohesive and distinctive world of Bloodborne. I wouldn't entirely agree it's restricted by its setting either - just look at Scorsese's Silence or indeed something like Okami to see how aesthetically fetching feudal Japanese settings can be I don't want to hate on Nioh that much, though, as like I've hopefully stressed there's a lot to like about the game.

Rob2D

Pickpocket wrote: »

I don't buy that for a second. You're essentially saying that... etc..

Well yeah that's exactly what I said, or do I need to type it again? :pac:

Pickpocket wrote: »

Look at GTAV and The Last of Us. Look at Ravenholm in Half-Life 2

All look pretty boring to me. I loved going through Ravenholm as much as the next guy, but I don't exactly have pictures of it hanging on my wall.

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

Agreed. Maybe Pickpocket, the greatest art director of all time, can enlighten us.....

What should Nioh have been, Okami or something??? Doesn't really fit.

Pickpocket

Read back a few pages and you'll see that I was one of the first people to disagree with the suggestion that Nioh was a poor looking game. Pickpocket-san, the greatest art-director of all time, gave it his nod of approval, direct from his studio in Koenji.

Pickpocket

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious, what is it about Ni-Oh's aesthetic that is lacking, or what makes it's art direction that much weaker than Bloodborne's? Specifically.

Just to be clear, my interpretation of previous comments was that certain people feel the game's aesthetic is 'lacking', but nobody else used that word, so blame me for that one.

I myself have commented twice on how it looks and both times I said it looked great, plus I strongly disagreed with the earlier suggestion that it looks like a 360 game. I do however feel that it doesn't hold a candle to Bloodborne. That game's aesthetic feeds into the story and the story feeds into the aesthetic, often in very direct ways (the change of colour as it shifts from classical horror to a more Lovercraftian influence). That's From's 'thing'. It's a design philosophy that Team Ninja haven't even attempted. I'm not criticising them for being bad at something they haven't even tried. That would be deeply unfair.

However, Nioh is very happy to invite comparisons with Bloodborne and Dark Souls and the overall look and significance of the environment will be a huge part of that discussion.

Pickpocket

The tonal shift in Bloodborne was one of the most unsettling things I've ever experienced in a videogame. I thought I was going to have to stop playing. The change in both colour and creature design, and how it constantly feeds back into the slowly escalating story, is just a breathtaking piece of world-building. So when I say that Nioh's overall aesthetic is poorer I don't mean that it's not as good looking, that the 'graphics' are not as detailed, or... blah blah blah. I mean that on a fundamental level the game's designers, writers and artists have not pulled together to make sure that the game's look, tone and mechanics are singing together.

You know that feeling you get when something tastes exactly as it smells (I'm sure there's a word for it). Well that's what Bloodborne is like for me. It plays exactly as it looks and it sounds exactly as it plays. That's a godawful analogy but it's the only way I can think to describe it. Nioh doesn't have that 'thing', whatever it is.

Grahamer666

I'm finding this much harder than the Souls games. I can't even get past the first boss.

Sephiroth_dude

If you're over level for a boss is it possible too kill them quick or does it depend on your stat/weapon stats etc?

johnny_ultimate

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

If you're over level for a boss is it possible too kill them quick or does it depend on your stat/weapon stats etc?

Nah I'd very much doubt you could just power through a boss with a high level (although I've taken down the last two I've fought in only one go). You still need to understand the fight at hand, and equipment is important.

Andrew76

@Johnny & Pickpocket - thanks for responding chaps. So it's not just a graphics comparison between the two, that's fair enough. It's been a long time since I've played Bloodborne so a lot of it's greatness is long forgotten I'll admit, gave up with it at that king dude on the roof, couldn't get past the fecker and never went back.

I'm finding Ni-Oh a bit more enjoyable so far, a bit less stressful for sure. Kusarigama & Ninjitsu is great fun. Going to take on the boss in the caves this evening, had one attempt yesterday and couldn't get much damage off her so need to prepare better next time.

Grahamer666 wrote: »

I'm finding this much harder than the Souls games. I can't even get past the first boss.

Took me ages to get him, found his first phase very awkward so decided to roll towards and behind him when he attackes, get in a few hits then dodge backwards twice before the swings his balls around at me (oooh matron! :pac:). Second phase was much easier to read I thought.

Grahamer666

I'll have another try again this evening. Do not want to break my controller or Audio Technica's though.:pac:

Andrew76

Grahamer666 wrote: »

I'll have another try again this evening. Do not want to break my controller or Audio Technica's though.:pac:

Several times I came close to mangling my controller.

Didn't help I also had some running commentary from a certain 6 yr old in the room - "the boss is winning, dad's going to die again..." :pac:

Once I got him to within a single hit and of course I died - but I knew then I had his number.

Retr0gamer

The petition to get this on PC just hit 10K+ signatures which is a massive amount. I'd put money on this coming to PC anyway considering when it comes to 'exclusives' Tecmo Koei are even bigger whores than Capcom. I they put Atelier Sophie and nights of azure on PC with Atelier Firis on the way I think a bigger game like Nioh is a shoe in.

bugs

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The petition to get this on PC just hit 10K+ signatures which is a massive amount. I'd put money on this coming to PC anyway considering when it comes to 'exclusives' Tecmo Koei are even bigger whores than Capcom. I they put Atelier Sophie and nights of azure on PC with Atelier Firis on the way I think a bigger game like Nioh is a shoe in.

Entirely dependent on the licensing contract with Sony. You're probably right but won't appear until that contract runs its course.

johnny_ultimate

For anyone struggling with the first few bosses:

First boss is basically there to teach you how to Ki Pulse. Mightn't completely change the playing field, but it sure as hell helps

Figure out how to tire them out. Exhaustion is a great way to land a few blows: play defensively 'til then. (second boss is particularly vulnerable during her flying moves)

Call back your living weapon at a shrine (if you're happy to lose the amrita attached) and fill up the gauge through standard enemies before heading back in. Unleash hell at opportune moment!

nix

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Call back your living weapon at a shrine (if you're happy to lose the amrita attached) and fill up the gauge through standard enemies before heading back in. Unleash hell at opportune moment!

You can also use spirit stones to build it up real quick and easy, ive gone to the point where i keep them just for that, as the amitra most of them give is marginal at the level im at currently.

What guardian spirit is everybody using? I'm using Enko with my pretty much Katana only build, but with the amount of stats/bonuses in the game i've no idea if its the best choice

johnny_ultimate

nix wrote: »

What guardian spirit is everybody using? I'm using Enko with my pretty much Katana only build, but with the amount of stats/bonuses in the game i've no idea if its the best choice

Fuse-ushi, but honestly haven't been paying much attention to mixing them up as there's indeed a lot of micromanaging stats as is.

Feel the game has hit a stride where I'm at. The Ocean Roars Again is a very nicely designed level (albeit maybe with one or two cheeky water pits too many). Major complaint remains a relative lack of variety creature-wise - feel like there hasn't been a whole lot of variety in grunts and sub-bosses / yokai so far. Even new ones tend to wear out their welcome fairly quickly.

Xenji

nix wrote: »

You can also use spirit stones to build it up real quick and easy, ive gone to the point where i keep them just for that, as the amitra most of them give is marginal at the level im at currently.

What guardian spirit is everybody using? I'm using Enko with my pretty much Katana only build, but with the amount of stats/bonuses in the game i've no idea if its the best choice

Using Usara Hicho currently as it is quite useful early game for taking on Yokai, I have been doing a dual katana build focusing on Skill/Heart/Strength so far.

Grahamer666

Grahamer666 wrote: »

I'll have another try again this evening. Do not want to break my controller or Audio Technica's though.:pac:

Finally did it. :pac:

Andrew76

Grahamer666 wrote: »

Finally did it. :pac:

Nicely done! :cool:

Popped on last night for a few minutes just to see how much amrita I left at my corpse from my first attempt at the second boss. Figured I'd just try and learn some of her moves before my inevitable death and tackle her properly another night.
Mostly kept away from her dodging like a madman, then after a while I noticed when she flies at you, you can dodge to the side and end up nice and close to her - get a few whacks in and get out of there. Throw a few bombs/kunai when she's up in the air. Rinse and repeat and 8 elixirs later and I got her! Totally forgot to use my living weapon (keep doing that). Was shaking after it. Delighted I was.

Also found out I can access the touchpad main menu on the map screen - for some reason I thought you had to be in a level to get access to it. /facepalm

Currently using Daiba-washi as my guardian spirit. Kusarigama as my main weapon, don't really use the spear much. The ranged weapons are very handy I find. Mostly putting points into Body, Skill and Dexterity at the minute. Need to start using more of the stances too, mostly using low so far.

Also need to complete some Ninja Novice level to get access to those poison bombs.

Generic Dreadhead

Cheapest place to get this new on PS4? Asking for a friend who is very interested in it

Kimbot

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Cheapest place to get this new on PS4? Asking for a friend who is very interested in it

Argos I believe 57.99

But 42 pound on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-AW2KE4M-Nioh-PS4/dp/B01AW2KE4M/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1487160332&sr=1-1&keywords=nioh

johnny_ultimate

Pumping some resources into magic is paying off. Sloth talisman married with a level 2 elemental weapon is an immensely powerful combo, absolutely demolishes yokai. Looking forward to unlocking the next tier of spells already.

Discovered that the lute players can actually summon fallen phantoms nearby Was wondering why they'd just choose to spawn themselves on occasion.

Also had my first 'stop and admire the scenery' moment

Andrew76

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Pumping some resources into magic is paying off. Sloth talisman married with a level 2 elemental weapon is an immensely powerful combo, absolutely demolishes yokai. Looking forward to unlocking the next tier of spells already.

Discovered that the lute players can actually summon fallen phantoms nearby Was wondering why they'd just choose to spawn themselves on occasion.

Also had my first 'stop and admire the scenery' moment

Lute player?

Went and did that Ninja training in the dojo to get access to poision bombs, they're handy. Also had a look at the fire wheel yokai side mission from the first level, it's nice going back to a familiar place with new challenges.