SSE AirTricity offering discounts for direct debit - but who controls DD?

TenLeftFingers

But after reading of experiences like in the link below, I'm very dubious. I went into the Bank of Ireland and they said that the below story couldn't be true but I've heard other instances of it also.

Can anyone advice a banking dimwit like myself how to stay safe?

Post in question: https://plus.google.com/+joeysneddon/posts/3m23ucSh16Z

The outcome of this is that 'recurring payments' can be set up and your bank (at least in the UK and US) hands power over to the payee completely. In some cases I've read online the banks claim there is nothing they can do to stop companies taking money and cancelling cards etc doesn't help.

I understand standing orders are relatively safe as I can cancel them myself. But 'recurring payments' seem potentially deadly.

L1011

Under SEPA you can stop/return any DD.

Joseph

Quoting another post I made because, lazy

Joseph wrote: »

How are the payments made? Is it by direct debit from bank account?

If so, you just need to call into your bank in person (doesn't matter what bank) and ask for a "SEPA direct debit refund form". This will allow you to get a refund on any direct debits from your account up to 8 weeks old. You do not need to provide a reason to do this, there will be a tick box on the form "customer did not give reason" or whatever.

Within 2-3 days you will have the refund. This is nothing to do with Sky, your bank must make this refund. Then you can also cancel future direct debits to Sky.

dub45

I believe there are many serious flaws in the SEPA dd system and also training of bank staff in respect of dd rules etc is often abysmal.

While it is great that there is a no questions asked refund in place up to eight weeks afterwards - this takes no account of the havoc that can be wreaked on an account by an irregular debit.

There is no independent complaints system under SEPA so no matter what a company does it is very very difficult to bring them to task. There is no central monitoring of persistent abusers of the system.

Also there was a direct debit scheme manager under the previous system so at least there was someone in charge of the scheme even if the enforcement of rules was hardly strict. There is no such role under SEPA so it is impossible to find out who is in charge of the scheme overall.

The example you quote was actually a debit card and it was in England. |It is important to understand the difference between the two. When you set up a direct debit you authorise your bank to allow a company to debit your account provided they give you a minimum of 14 days notice unless otherwise agreed and there are rights to refunds etc. There is a lot of information here. You can cancel a direct debit mandate at any time but remember this does not cancel your contract and you are still liable for the payments agreed. As I understand it you have far less protection using a debit card for regular payments.

But it is very important to understand that having direct debits coming out of your account definitely reduces your control of your account.

VincePP

TenLeftFingers wrote: »

But after reading of experiences like in the link below, I'm very dubious. I went into the Bank of Ireland and they said that the below story couldn't be true but I've heard other instances of it also.

.

That person was based in UK and used a debit card - they did not use direct debit whish is an entirely different method of payment and the rules are very strict and very much in favour of the consumer.

In any case, if you ever cancel anything, ALWAYS get a confirmation reply in writing such as email.

And finally, try not to belive everything written online, a lot of people vent their anger and make small issues out to be huge and elaborate quite a lot - and that includes the media.

There are written regulations on direct debit - read them. They are gospel and form part of the legal contract. (I've paid every bill possible by direct debit for years, business and personal and never once had an issue)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

+1.
I have paid every bill possible by DD and standing orders for decades. Monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, and annual bills. Never once had a problem. It's a terrific way to pay bills and is very well regulated and protected in favour of the consumer.

dub45

VincePP wrote: »

That person was based in UK and used a debit card - they did not use direct debit whish is an entirely different method of payment and the rules are very strict and very much in favour of the consumer.

In any case, if you ever cancel anything, ALWAYS get a confirmation reply in writing such as email.

And finally, try not to belive everything written online, a lot of people vent their anger and make small issues out to be huge and elaborate quite a lot - and that includes the media.

There are written regulations on direct debit - read them. They are gospel and form part of the legal contract. (I've paid every bill possible by direct debit for years, business and personal and never once had an issue)

Part of which "legal contract"?

VincePP

dub45 wrote: »

Part of which "legal contract"?

eh?

You sign a service agreement which is a legal contract. Part of that is the direct debit, so payment by direct debit is covered in the terms and conditions of the contract. All Direct debits are governed under SEPA Direct Debit rules and regulations, therefore the consumer legal contract with the service provider offers the legal protection of the SEPA direct debit scheme.

Very simple for most to understand.

dub45

Jacqueline Unimportant Tech wrote: »

+1.
I have paid every bill possible by DD and standing orders for decades. Monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, and annual bills. Never once had a problem. It's a terrific way to pay bills and is very well regulated and protected in favour of the consumer.

Unfortunately the above is simply not true. Firstly there is a very big difference between a standing order and a direct debit. With a standing order you have total control of your account as the business has no access to your account - many businesses will not accept standing orders as a method of payment.

Secondly there really is a lot of negatives with a direct debit for the consumer.

You have no upfront protection when a direct debit is in existence.

There is no complaints system. Companies can do what they like under the scheme with no fear of any consequences.

There is no one person in charge.

A cancelled direct debit can be reinstated,

Banks who become aware of any misbehaviour on the part of a company are not required to report it.

The advance notice which companies are required to give is not enforced or even publicised (14 days)

If you incur costs as a result of a company's error there is no structure for getting them back (suppose a company sends a huge debit wrongly and other dd's bounce as a result)

Companies can send DD information to the bank a considerable period in advance - this can make it difficult to get a wrong bill sorted.

There is nothing to stop companies charging administrative fees when consumers exercise their rights under the DD scheme.

Missing a DD can be very costly with bank and business fees.

There is a general shortage of information for the consumer. As far as I am aware there is no printed leaflet available stating the basics.

Training in respect of the dd scheme rules and procedures in both banks and the companies using the scheme is often abysmal.

dub45

VincePP wrote: »

eh?

You sign a service agreement which is a legal contract. Part of that is the direct debit, so payment by direct debit is covered in the terms and conditions of the contract. All Direct debits are governed under SEPA Direct Debit rules and regulations, therefore the consumer legal contract with the service provider offers the legal protection of the SEPA direct debit scheme.

Very simple for most to understand.

A direct debit mandate has nothing got to do with a contract. It is an instruction to your bank. A direct debit is simply a way of paying a bill. It can be cancelled at any time without affecting your contract with the company.

RichardoKhan

Hallelujah..............the penny drops. Or in the case of huge companies it doesnt. Its just plain simple.
Yes its great whilst all is well BUT the very instant you are over charged what then?
Telephonic abyss followed by stall after stall. Until eventually weeks later they correct their mistake BUT you miss them bills by one cent & see what happens?

Nothing but a pain in the derrière. You dont go to yer Supermarket/Shop & cough up anything until you Both agree on the cost of goods provided. Nothing different regards services you both should agree prior to exchange of monies.

TenLeftFingers

Thanks everyone, in particular dub45 for very thorough answers. The 20% discount for switching to DD was an indicator that there would be a loss for the customer elsewhere.

I've heard on the radio today (on the subject of Irish Water) that you can have a debit returned within eight weeks, however the aspect of the company being able to reinstate the direct debit is disturbing. Creating an account specifically for each utility is a possibility but the comments above suggest that penalties may still occur. I'll definitely have to read more into this.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's your choice but I personally think you are being a bit paranoid.

dub45

TenLeftFingers wrote: »

Thanks everyone, in particular dub45 for very thorough answers. The 20% discount for switching to DD was an indicator that there would be a loss for the customer elsewhere.

I've heard on the radio today (on the subject of Irish Water) that you can have a debit returned within eight weeks, however the aspect of the company being able to reinstate the direct debit is disturbing. Creating an account specifically for each utility is a possibility but the comments above suggest that penalties may still occur. I'll definitely have to read more into this.

It is really incredible in this day and age that the sepa did system cannot stop a DD for which the mandate has been cancelled being debited from an account.

When a DD mandate has been cancelled the customer has specifically withdrawn authority for the company to access the account and withdrawn permission from the bank to allow such access.

Yet when a company reinstates the DD there are no consequences whatsoever in spite of thr fact - at least in my view - this is attempted theft.