Children's hospital finally gets the go-ahead

bear1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/a-watershed-day-goahead-given-for-irelands-new-childrens-hospital-34667361.html

After years of this saga, it has been finally given the green light today for work to start this summer.
Thing that I don't get is why that location? Parking should be interesting...
Right next to the Luas so you're fecked if there is a strike and the traffic around that place is a bloody nightmare.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to place it closer to the M50? I wonder if the ambulances will be able to use the Luas tracks in an emergency?
I'll be amazed if it's finished on time and on budget considering they have debating this for the past 15 years :rolleyes:

smash

It's an absolutely ridiculous location for a children's hospital. Bad access, awful traffic, no parking, surrounded by 1 way streets...

kneemos

Hey look...another colossal **** up.

SEPT 23 1989

smash wrote: »

It's an absolutely ridiculous location for a children's hospital. Bad access, awful traffic, no parking, surrounded by 1 way streets...

the vested interests know better

Podge_irl

Extremely near the main train station into Dublin, serviced by regular city public transport, co-located with a large university hospital.

Glad to know we all know better though.

Fratton Fred

What a nightmare of a location to get to, for pretty much 99% of the population.

A brand-new hospital around city west would have made a lot more sense.

bear1

kneemos wrote: »

Hey look...another colossal **** up.

If only you could get used to it. 650 million Euro on a hospital in the most ridiculous location possible.

fatknacker

I wish they'd call it something nice for the kids, like the Starship hospital in New Zealand.
Instead of something dreary and dour like St. Drab of the smelly catholic such and such.

bear1

Podge_irl wrote: »

Extremely near the main train station into Dublin, serviced by regular city public transport, co-located with a large university hospital.

Glad to know we all know better though.

If the Luas strikes then that's one part of the public transport gone.
If you want to go by car you will need to leave at 3am to get a spot.
It's a stupid location. Glad to know we all are wrong though huh..

khamilto

smash wrote: »

It's an absolutely ridiculous location for a children's hospital. Bad access, awful traffic, no parking, surrounded by 1 way streets...

It has 400% of the parking spaces Crumlin Hospital currently has (and 200% of the proposed Mater site), is located a couple of hundred meters away from a dual carriageway+24hr bus lane, SCR and the canal roads as well as the Luas, the main train station for most of the routes in Ireland and several high frequency bus routes.

The only 1 way street that 'surrounds it' is a short access road called Brookfield Road and traffic is bad everywhere in Dublin (including the m50, which is stop start every morning and evening now).

Beyond that, one of the criteria was to colocate it with a major university teaching hospital (which is considered internationally as best practice) which limited the options to the Mater, St Vincents or St James. Of those three, St James was the clear and obvious winner.

The NCH being built on the mythical greenfields site somewhere outside the M50 would result in worse care for sick children, and worse outcomes.

My apologies if spending that extra 20mins at 10am to get to your appointment is more important than the standard of care provided. I'm sure the children affected by it will understand that your minor inconvenience trumps their chances of survival and recovery.

Allinall

How do people currently get to Jamses?

LeinsterDub

bear1 wrote: »

If the Luas strikes then that's one part of the public transport gone.

If me aunt had balls ...

mariaalice

How come ever thing is so complicated and take so long to do in our society.

bear1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If me aunt had balls ...

She'd be your uncle....

SEPT 23 1989

fatknacker wrote: »

I wish they'd call it something nice for the kids, like the Starship hospital in New Zealand.
Instead of something dreary and dour like St. Drab of the smelly catholic such and such.

I would have offered the naming rights to Disney or Pixar in exchange for them visually turning the hospital into a kids paradise to take their minds off their illness

bear1

khamilto wrote: »

It has 400% of the parking spaces Crumlin Hospital currently has (and 200% of the proposed Mater site), is located a couple of hundred meters away from a dual carriageway+24hr bus lane, SCR and the canal roads. The only 1 way street that 'surrounds it' is a short access road called Brookfield Road and traffic is bad everywhere in Dublin (including the m50, which is stop start every morning and evening now).

Beyond that, one of the criteria was to colocate it with a major university teaching hospital (which is considered internationally as best practice) which limited the options to the Mater, St Vincents or St James. Of those three, St James was the clear and obvious winner.

The NCH being built on the mythical greenfields site somewhere outside the M50 would result in worse care for sick children, and worse outcomes.

My apologies if spending that extra 20mins at 10am to get to your appointment is more important than the standard of care provided. I'm sure the children affected it will understand that your minor inconvenience trumps their chances of survival and recovery.

ABP?

For Forks Sake

Podge_irl wrote: »

Extremely near the main train station into Dublin, serviced by regular city public transport, co-located with a large university hospital.

Glad to know we all know better though.

I'm sure that will be of great consolation to parents of sick children traveling from Donegal, or Cavan or Monaghan as they get up at some ungodly hour of the morning to catch the non-existent train.

LeinsterDub

bear1 wrote: »

She'd be your uncle....

Exactly. This is the first strike in over 10 years of running . I'm not sure we should be factoring it in to plan for where to base a hospital.


And as has been pointed out neither of 2 the other locations have access to the LUAS at all

Carlos Orange

bear1 wrote: »

Right next to the Luas so you're fecked if there is a strike and the traffic around that place is a bloody nightmare.

Granted now isn't the best timing but it would seem nuts to create a new hospital in Dublin that wasn't within spitting distance of the Luas.

bear1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Exactly. This is the first strike in over 10 years of running . I'm not sure we should be factoring it in to plan for where to base a hospital.


And as has been pointed out neither of 2 the other locations have access to the LUAS at all

First strike ok, but look at how long it has dragged on? So it's fair to assume it won't be too long until they decide for another strike.

khamilto

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I'm sure that will be of great consolation to parents of sick children traveling from Donegal, or Cavan or Monaghan as they get up at some ungodly hour of the morning to catch the non-existent train.

Which is different from the current situation in Crumlin because.....
Which is different from if the NCH was built in Connolly because.....

Oh right ya.

Little CuChulainn

It's such a crock of ****. Why are all the important hospitals being put in the city centre? We don't have a good enough public transport system and the parking provided at these places is abysmal and extortionate.

Allinall

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I'm sure that will be of great consolation to parents of sick children traveling from Donegal, or Cavan or Monaghan as they get up at some ungodly hour of the morning to catch the non-existent train.

How do they currently get to Crumlin- a stones throw from James'?

LeinsterDub

bear1 wrote: »

First strike ok, but look at how long it has dragged on? So it's fair to assume it won't be too long until they decide for another strike.

Let's assume they'll not go on strike forever and the Luas will still be running in the 100 years maybe with the odd disruption

Dodge

James is a great hospital. Huge multi storey car park. Buses that literally go through the hospital grounds. Luas too (with connections from Connolly, Heuston and the Red Cow (car passengers from the n7 will be delighted)

There isn't a perfect location that will suit everybody but this is as good as it gets.

smash

khamilto wrote: »

My apologies if spending that extra 20mins at 10am to get to your appointment is more important than the standard of care provided. I'm sure the children affected by it will understand that your minor inconvenience trumps their chances of survival and recovery.

To be perfectly blunt, this if frankly one of the dumbest comments I've ever read and instead of discrediting my post, it discredits your post even more. To try and suggest that someone would place their daily commute over a child's health and survival rate is nothing more than obnoxious and sickening.

bear1

smash wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, this if frankly one of the dumbest comments I've ever read and instead of discrediting my post, it discredits your post even more. To try and suggest that someone would place their daily commute over a child's health and survival rate is nothing more than obnoxious and sickening.

When someone posts something like that it's best to just roll your eyes and move on.

otwb1

Podge_irl wrote:

Extremely near the main train station into Dublin, serviced by regular city public transport, co-located with a large university hospital.

..which is fantastic for a routine appointment, but none of which is helpful for an immunocompromised/dying child or out off hours emergency.

Uriel.

bear1 wrote: »

ABP?

Why not refute some of the points put across by the poster instead of coming back with childish stupidity like that - granted this is AH and all - but it seems you ran out of steam very quickly re your arguments against "the establishment"

bear1

Uriel. wrote: »

Why not refute some of the points put across by the poster instead of coming back with childish stupidity like that - granted this is AH and all - but it seems you ran out of steam very quickly re your arguments against "the establishment"

Eh? He sounded like he was from ABP, don't care whether you think it's childish or not.
I already said what I thought of the idea, should I paint them for you so you might actually understand?
And what, pray tell are you arguments other than posting rubbish?

Polo_Mint

khamilto wrote: »

It has 400% of the parking spaces Crumlin Hospital currently has (and 200% of the proposed Mater site), is located a couple of hundred meters away from a dual carriageway+24hr bus lane, SCR and the canal roads as well as the Luas, the main train station for most of the routes in Ireland and several high frequency bus routes.

The only 1 way street that 'surrounds it' is a short access road called Brookfield Road and traffic is bad everywhere in Dublin (including the m50, which is stop start every morning and evening now).

Beyond that, one of the criteria was to colocate it with a major university teaching hospital (which is considered internationally as best practice) which limited the options to the Mater, St Vincents or St James. Of those three, St James was the clear and obvious winner.

The NCH being built on the mythical greenfields site somewhere outside the M50 would result in worse care for sick children, and worse outcomes.

My apologies if spending that extra 20mins at 10am to get to your appointment is more important than the standard of care provided. I'm sure the children affected by it will understand that your minor inconvenience trumps their chances of survival and recovery.

I think this might be an issue

They are planning on putting approximately 984 parking spaces in the underground car park.

However, as they plan on building the Children’s hospital on an existing surface car park, they will lose almost 600 surface spaces leaving them with a net gain of only 420 spaces.

This gives you a final cost of over €138,000 for each of the 420 car parking spaces! It is accepted that the children’s hospital will have to cope with 10,000 arrivals and departures every day.

An additional 3,500 staff will work at the children’s hospital. If the essential maternity hospital is ever built, St James’s have indicated that, in keeping with Dublin city council regulations, there cannot and will not be any additional parking provided for those attending or working in that facility.

nc6000

Great timing. Is this being announced to deflect from the Irish Water cave-in?

chocksaway

smash wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, this if frankly one of the dumbest comments I've ever read and instead of discrediting my post, it discredits your post even more. To try and suggest that someone would place their daily commute over a child's health and survival rate is nothing more than obnoxious and sickening.

I don't think he's saying that at all. Reads to me like if it takes an extra 20 mins to get into the hospital so what. The hospital is in a better position to provide better care with all the associated facilities required to provided better services for the patients. No where does (s)he say that they're placing someone's commute over childrens health

andekwarhola

Podge_irl wrote: »

Extremely near the main train station into Dublin, serviced by regular city public transport,

Yeah son, I know you're having a convulsion but the regular city public transport will be along in 20 minutes, just hold on. Have you got change?

khamilto

smash wrote: »

To be perfectly blunt, this if frankly one of the dumbest comments I've ever read and instead of discrediting my post, it discredits your post even more. To try and suggest that someone would place their daily commute over a child's health and survival rate is nothing more than obnoxious and sickening.

I have and had no interest in discrediting your post. I countered your assertions with facts and verifiable information, and your main point boiled down to 'it takes a little bit longer to get there travelling via car'.

Emergency cases do not travel by car.

If you do not want to be portrayed as being self-interested, do not make self-interested statements. Most certainly do not blame others for picking up on said self interest.

Uriel.

bear1 wrote: »

Eh? He sounded like he was from ABP, don't care whether you think it's childish or not.
I already said what I thought of the idea, should I paint them for you so you might actually understand?
And what, pray tell are you arguments other than posting rubbish?

You said you didn't like the location - didn't give much reason why and didn't give anything at all to support your reasons.

Podge_irl

otwb1 wrote: »

..which is fantastic for a routine appointment, but none of which is helpful for an immunocompromised/dying child or out off hours emergency.

Do you know what is helpful for that? Being co-located with a large, university hospital.

bear1

Uriel. wrote: »

You said you didn't like the location - didn't give much reason why and didn't give anything at all to support your reasons.

Location/Access/Costs/Timeframe...
Did you even read the post? Again, what are your thoughts?

Badly Drunk Boy

fatknacker wrote: »

Instead of something dreary and dour like St. Drab of the smelly catholic such and such.

Let the public vote to call it something stupid like Hostipal McGetBetter-face.






('Hospital' was deliberately misspelt...'cos that's how some kids say it.)

Uriel.

andekwarhola wrote: »

Yeah son, I know you're having a convulsion but the regular city public transport will be along in 20 minutes, just hold on. Have you got change?

So you're saying that because hospitals (children's or otherwise) deal with emergency scenarios, they should not be located anywhere near public transport?

So, when planning a hospital, if say for argument sake 40% of patients and visitors are there under an emergency situation and the remainder are attending checkups, routine appointments, visiting sick relatives, making deliveries, showing up at work etc. that it makes sense to locate the hospital away from public transport and only have road access?

khamilto

Polo_Mint wrote: »

I think this might be an issue

The surface parking spaces were for staff, if I recall reports correctly. Both Crumlin and James have a disproportionate number of staff travelling via car (as compared to other large businesses in surrounding areas) who have easy access to existing public transport infrastructure, but choose to drive because of available parking.

Shift workers/night staff are accommodated in both with priority for parking due to unavailability of public transport.

LeinsterDub

Uriel. wrote: »

road access?

Road access are you mad! This is an emergency location it should be built with 1000 heli-pads

Uriel.

bear1 wrote: »

Location/Access/Costs/Timeframe...
Did you even read the post? Again, what are your thoughts?

You're just typing random words...
what is it about:
Location,
Access,
Costs,
Timeframe,
that you have a problem with? What is silver bullet alternative?

If that's the strength of your disapproval for something, it's an easy game for to play to give my thoughts..
I think the agreed proposal is good because: Location, Access, Costs, Timeframe.

Uriel.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Road access are you mad! This is an emergency location it should be built with 1000 heli-pads

And teleporters?

cardinal tetra

So what happens to Crumlin hospital when this gets built. does it get knocked?
They just finished building a big huge extension onto the side of it.
What will happen to Ronald Mcdonald house

Fairly certain the Davitt road site will now be used as parking with over 3,000 parking spaces available exclusively for Jamses and this new hospital. I would have thought that would be where they would base this but what do i know.
Transport wise, everyone in this thread appears to be looking at it from a Dublin perspective. Typical me Fein attitude where culchies arent acknowledged in the use of the hospital.

andekwarhola

Uriel. wrote: »

So you're saying that because hospitals (children's or otherwise) deal with emergency scenarios, they should not be located anywhere near public transport?

So, when planning a hospital, if say for argument sake 40% of patients and visitors are there under an emergency situation and the remainder are attending checkups, routine appointments, visiting sick relatives, making deliveries, showing up at work etc. that it makes sense to locate the hospital away from public transport and only have road access?

Not at all, but you can have a site with less traffic congestion and with public transport links.

I've had to bring sick kids (twice in an ambulance) to places like Tallaght and go to places like the Coombe or Mater at peak times before.

cardinal tetra

also, the building looks like the design was based on a womans lady bits.

With the bed pan over in lansdowne road, what other Phallic works are under way in our great capital.

Uriel.

andekwarhola wrote: »

Not at all, but you can have a site with less traffic congestion and with public transport links.

Where would you propose?

Knine

khamilto wrote: »

It has 400% of the parking spaces Crumlin Hospital currently has (and 200% of the proposed Mater site), is located a couple of hundred meters away from a dual carriageway+24hr bus lane, SCR and the canal roads as well as the Luas, the main train station for most of the routes in Ireland and several high frequency bus routes.

The only 1 way street that 'surrounds it' is a short access road called Brookfield Road and traffic is bad everywhere in Dublin (including the m50, which is stop start every morning and evening now).

Beyond that, one of the criteria was to colocate it with a major university teaching hospital (which is considered internationally as best practice) which limited the options to the Mater, St Vincents or St James. Of those three, St James was the clear and obvious winner.

The NCH being built on the mythical greenfields site somewhere outside the M50 would result in worse care for sick children, and worse outcomes.

My apologies if spending that extra 20mins at 10am to get to your appointment is more important than the standard of care provided. I'm sure the children affected by it will understand that your minor inconvenience trumps their chances of survival and recovery.

My apologies if I dread the extra hour battling through traffic several times a month at 9am appointments with my daughter with a life threatening genetic disorder. I'm pretty sure this new location will be a major inconvenience to parents like me.

Podge_irl

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Transport wise, everyone in this thread appears to be looking at it from a Dublin perspective. Typical me Fein attitude where culchies arent acknowledged in the use of the hospital.

It's right beside Heuston station. It's on the tram line from Busaras.

LeinsterDub

cardinal tetra wrote: »

Typical me Fein attitude where culchies arent acknowledged in the use of the hospital.

Nope the brief was to co locate so that rules out a green field site .Did they consider Cork university hospital or Galway university hospital, I don't know but they all have the same transport issues for the "culchies"