Children's hospital finally gets the go-ahead

crazygeryy

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

smash

crazygeryy wrote: »

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

Because the majority of the population live in Dublin. What's not accounted for in planning permission is that the majority of the population of Dublin don't live in Dublin city centre, which is a nightmare to get around.

BoatMad

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I would have offered the naming rights to Disney or Pixar in exchange for them visually turning the hospital into a kids paradise to take their minds off their illness

why do you expect it to be " drab".

Allinall

smash wrote: »

Because the majority of the population live in Dublin. What's not accounted for in planning permission is that the majority of the population of Dublin don't live in Dublin city centre, which is a nightmare to get around.

The James' site isn't in Dublin city centre.

LeinsterDub

crazygeryy wrote: »

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

"Yeah why isn't on Inis Mor . Typical Dublin bias ." Jesus wept

Dodge

crazygeryy wrote: »

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

The very worst argument there is.

i don't have much time for dublin

:rolleyes:

smash

Allinall wrote: »

The James' site isn't in Dublin city centre.

Where do you consider it to be then?

BoatMad

crazygeryy wrote: »

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

Because the primary reasons for siting a children's hospital are CLINICAL. not geographical

Why cant people get this into their heads

also in proportion nobody lives in the west coast of this country , nobody

BoatMad

smash wrote: »

Because the majority of the population live in Dublin. What's not accounted for in planning permission is that the majority of the population of Dublin don't live in Dublin city centre, which is a nightmare to get around.

Again , its clinical needs that were the major determining factor , as it should be

Allinall

smash wrote: »

Where do you consider it to be then?

Between James St and Rialto.

smash

BoatMad wrote: »

Again , its clinical needs that were the major determining factor , as it should be

Not one person has argued against the clinical needs. The issue is with the location.

Podge_irl

crazygeryy wrote: »

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_population

Because Dublin is the most easily accessible location for the whole country and it has the largest proportion (by far) of the population.

CIARAN_BOYLE

crazygeryy wrote: »

Why does everything important have to be in ****ing dublin.anytime i had to go to hospital when i was younger we had to go to dublin for it.it was a total pain in the arse and to this day i don't have much time for dublin because of it.

Why can't they build this in the west coast or the midlands and let ****ing dublin people travel and be inconvenienced for a change.

Because if it was in for example Roscommon or something like that Cork people would go to ****ing Dublin on the way. Over 1/3 of the population is in the greater Dublin area and at least an other third would have to go to dublin on the way to the midlands or the west coast or wherever.

Podge_irl

smash wrote: »

Not one person has argued against the clinical needs. The issue is with the location.

There is nowhere meeting the clinical needs with a better location. End of.

BoatMad

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is nowhere meeting the clinical needs with a better location. End of.

the expert group didn't think so, all the major research hospitals are in Dublin and with that only a certain number have the required space

( aside from other issues such as staff suitability etc )

smash

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is nowhere meeting the clinical needs with a better location. End of.

Because of previous poor planning. Take Crumlin hospital for example where around 11 years ago a new wing was opened up. It was huge and modern... but it was all consultants offices instead of patient facilities.

BoatMad

smash wrote: »

Because of previous poor planning. Take Crumlin hospital for example where around 11 years ago a new wing was opened up. It was huge and modern... but it was all consultants offices instead of patient facilities.

Crumlin would never be suitable for a national childrens hospital

Podge_irl

smash wrote: »

Because of previous poor planning. Take Crumlin hospital for example where around 11 years ago a new wing was opened up. It was huge and modern... but it was all consultants offices instead of patient facilities.

Seeing as we don't have a time machine there is nothing we can do about that.

And consultant offices are patient facilities.

smash

BoatMad wrote: »

Crumlin would never be suitable for a national childrens hospital

I never suggested it was, it is however our largest paediatric hospital and hosts specialised wards that other children's hospitals don't.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Seeing as we don't have a time machine there is nothing we can do about that.

But we can learn from the past.

BoatMad wrote: »

And consultant offices are patient facilities.

Not in the same sense as a ward or theatre would be.

khamilto

The new 'wing' opened up is the Medical Tower.

It hosts the following outpatient clinics (and I may be forgetting several):
Dermatology
Immunology(*)
Neurology
Haemotology & Oncology
Respiratory
Cardiac (and includes direct access to the Cardiac Ward)
Gastoenterology
Infectious Diseases

It also has several conference rooms where both local, national and international medical conferences are held, offices for both consultants and administrative staff, several specialised mini libraries, and work/study rooms for doctors. Sleep studies are conducted there too.

I'm not sure why anyone would listen to Smash given his tenuous connection to facts.

(* I may be wrong on this one)

BoatMad

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoatMad

And consultant offices are patient facilities.
Not in the same sense as a ward or theatre would be.

quote wrongly attributed to me

khamilto

Oh and off the top of my head, since the new 'consultants only' wing:

A brand new intensive care unit.
A brand new cardiac unit.
A brand new nuclear medicine and MRI/CT unit
A new ward for bonemarrow transplants and haemotology/oncology patients
A new diabetes/endocrinology unit.
Currently finishing new orthopaedic and cardiac cath theatres


Have entirely renovated five wards (and have expanded two of those five).

But shure, they only spend money on shiny offices for consulants, not on patient facilities.

smash

khamilto wrote: »

Oh and off the top of my head, since the new 'consultants only' wing:

A brand new intensive care unit.
A brand new cardiac unit.
A brand new nuclear medicine and MRI/CT unit
A new ward for bonemarrow transplants and haemotology/oncology patients
A new diabetes/endocrinology unit.
Currently finishing new orthopaedic and cardiac cath theatres


Have entirely renovated five wards (and have expanded two of those five).

But shure, they only spend money on shiny offices for consulants, not on patient facilities.

Well sure isn't that great. It'll be nice when they go and knock it all down now.

khamilto

smash wrote: »

Well sure isn't that great. It'll be nice when they go and knock it all down now.

So you were entirely wrong and instead of admitting or acknowledging it, are changing the goalposts again?

Lavinia

Allinall wrote: »

The James' site isn't in Dublin city centre.

Not too far off if you look at it like this:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/87599/384530.PNG

khamilto

In that case, we might as well accept that Ireland is part of Britain since we're not too far off of it if you zoom out.

BoatMad

khamilto wrote: »

In that case, we might as well accept that Ireland is part of Britain since we're not too far off of it if you zoom out.

aren't we giving it back and saying " sorry " anyway ;)

Tinder Surprise

ahhh here there is no denying that the current St James site is an absolute arse to get to both from Rialto and Thomas Street sides. Never mind after travelling from further a field from the country etc.

and I fail to see how they can improve on this for emergency access etc.

I am guessing (as I'm no expert in this) that this has all been factored into the planning decision and offset by the benefit of having all expert professions on a single site, but again, like others I too am finding it hard to get my head around, so will continue reading up here and other places to find out more.

BoatMad

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

ahhh here there is no denying that the current St James site is an absolute arse to get to both from Rialto and Thomas Street sides.

and I fail to see how they can improve on this for emergency access etc.

I am guessing (as I'm no expert in this) that this has all been factored into the planning decision and offset by the benefit of having all expert professions on a single site, but again, like others I too am finding it hard to get my head around, so will continue reading up here and other places to find out more.

remember not to forget there are satellite campuses at Balnchardstown and Taillight, so people going from the West etc , will most likely be admitted there and not on the st Jameses site


I think its a great decision and so long overdue , lets get behind it and urge it on

http://www.newchildrenshospital.ie

Lavinia

Is there much or anything to be possibly done in terms of changing the traffic rules/routes to improve the traffic to and from the new hospital?

I drove around there lots and yes atm it is not great. Even if I have to just go from the city centre towards the N7 it feels like going through a "narrow throat"... I got used to that but if Id have a sick child on my back seat I'm sure it wouldn't feel good at all..

sReq | uTeK

Access can be **** all it wants, the ONLY and i mean the ONLY thing I care about when I bring my child into a hospital is that it offers the best available care in the country.

If i had to get up 24 hours before an appointment Id do it so long as my child is safe.

Knine

BoatMad wrote: »

remember not to forget there are satellite campuses at Balnchardstown and Taillight, so people going from the West etc , will most likely be admitted there and not on the st Jameses site


I think its a great decision and so long overdue , lets get behind it and urge it on

http://www.newchildrenshospital.ie

I live in Blanchardstown. However I have a great deal of appointments in Temple Street so I will still have to go to St. James

khamilto

Knine wrote: »

I live in Blanchardstown. However I have a great deal of appointments in Temple Street so I will still have to go to St. James

Fortunately it's faster to get to St James than Temple Street, as has been proved far earlier in the thread.

Lavinia

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Access can be **** all it wants, the ONLY and i mean the ONLY thing I care about when I bring my child into a hospital is that it offers the best available care in the country.

If i had to get up 24 hours before an appointment Id do it so long as my child is safe.

Wouldn't it be the same care even if you'd need to travel "only" 12 hours instead of 24?

khamilto

Lavinia wrote: »

Wouldn't it be the same care even if you'd need to travel "only" 12 hours instead of 24?

All care isn't equal. Have you not read the thread?

Lavinia

khamilto wrote: »

All care isn't equal. Have you not read the thread?

I have, I guess I'm just agreeing that streets around the hospital are really narrow and not very much to be done about it since it is all densely built area...

Knine

khamilto wrote: »

Fortunately it's faster to get to St James than Temple Street, as has been proved far earlier in the thread.

Unless of course you regularly drive to both so know what you are talking about. I much prefer the drive to Temple Street.

Little CuChulainn

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Access can be **** all it wants, the ONLY and i mean the ONLY thing I care about when I bring my child into a hospital is that it offers the best available care in the country.

If i had to get up 24 hours before an appointment Id do it so long as my child is safe.

And how do you think getting up so early and travelling so long will affect your childs condition, especially if its a regular thing.

khamilto

Knine wrote: »

Unless of course you regularly drive to both so know what you are talking about. I much prefer the drive to Temple Street.

One person's anecdotal experience vs google's thousands of data points gathered from people doing the trip daily?

Mitch Connor

I know a number of nurses that would be in line to move from their current location to this and NONE of them want to.

The area is dangerous, there is no parking. I know a number of nurses who have been mugged going to and from the hospital there, and on the Luas. One was help up by a junkie who let her go when he recognised her as a nurse that he had dealings with in the hospital.

From a patient point of view it is terrible too - a horrible location to try get your kids to. Imagine trying to get a kid with life limiting problems and all the kit they need there in a hurry. It is absolutely insane, but typical of the the way Ireland goes about everything. Almost the right idea, ruined by self-interest and terrible execution.

It will be, like Irish Water, a national disgrace.

It should have been built on a greenfields site near the M50 - or I think Blanch was another option and a far better one but I could be wrong on that.

khamilto

Anecdotal experience, anecdotal experience, anecdotal experience, conspiracy theories about self interest. Strange comparisons to a national utility company set up from the remnants of County Councils, finishing with an option that every report has said was suboptimal.

Great, 13 pages and here we are.

Mitch Connor

khamilto wrote: »

All care isn't equal. Have you not read the thread?

But if you look to build the same hospital with the same goals and same staff in a better location you have the same care in a better location. This is supposed to be a national childrens hospital - dealing with children from all over the country - access to the hospital for those should have been considered and it clearly has not been.

It is, by any measure, a terrible location for a hospital - and also lacks grounds for further expansion. One of the stated goals was also not met as I don't think St. James has a maternity hospital onsite - it is down the road at another location so 'co-location' (which was a BS reason in the first place) hasn't even been satisfied.

This location was picked out of self-interest, not patient interest.

laserlad2010

As a Paediatric doctor I am absolutely delighted that this is getting the go ahead.

Very few posters, with the exception of Khamilto, have any concept of the clinical or operational requirements of a tertiary healthcare facility.

This site is the best we have. We have traded accessibility (somewhat) to gain invaluable advances in care afforded by a proximity to, amongst others, large cardiothoracic, surgical, orthopaedic, plastic surgery, anaesthetic departments. The advantage in having an obstetric facility, where newborn babies with acute gastrointestinal or cardiac abnormalities, which would usually carry a significant mortality rate if surgery is delayed, can be safely delivered and immediately transferred internally to undergo an operation, is also immeasurable.

Much of the required healthcare infrastructure is present at the James' site. It just needs to be expanded.

Parking is always an issue. It is an issue in the NHS, the HSE and further afield. It is not an issue in America because hospitals can charge patients exorbitant amounts to provide valets and adequate parking.

I have seen these plans. They are very impressive. It appears that we may, for once, have a hospital that can actually deal with the workload - as far as I can see. The reality may, in truth, be different.

I'm hopeful.

Mitch Connor

khamilto wrote: »

Anecdotal experience, anecdotal experience, anecdotal experience, conspiracy theories about self interest. Strange comparisons to a national utility company set up from the remnants of County Councils, finishing with an option that every report has said was suboptimal.

Great, 13 pages and here we are.

When you have people that actually care about children, such as the founder of Jack and Jill, and the parents of those poor children - who are affected by this the most - arguing consistently against this decision, and only politicians arguing for it - I feel that tells a story.

Podge_irl

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It should have been built on a greenfields site near the M50

And the large, university hospital with a huge number of specialists is where in this scenario?

Tinder Surprise

satellite campuses at Balnchardstown and Taillaght

...tell me more about this.


I've been looking at the website and maybe I have my bearings wrong, but what is going to happen all the new large development (down near where the Luas turns in for the current stop) on the current St James campus that has just been complete recently?
cause looking at the proposed layout they are up for chop, surely not?

BoatMad

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I know a number of nurses that would be in line to move from their current location to this and NONE of them want to.

The area is dangerous, there is no parking. I know a number of nurses who have been mugged going to and from the hospital there, and on the Luas. One was help up by a junkie who let her go when he recognised her as a nurse that he had dealings with in the hospital.

From a patient point of view it is terrible too - a horrible location to try get your kids to. Imagine trying to get a kid with life limiting problems and all the kit they need there in a hurry. It is absolutely insane, but typical of the the way Ireland goes about everything. Almost the right idea, ruined by self-interest and terrible execution.

It will be, like Irish Water, a national disgrace.

It should have been built on a greenfields site near the M50 - or I think Blanch was another option and a far better one but I could be wrong on that.

OMG , you seem to know better then all the expert groups, that have consistently said it must be situated on the site of a major teaching hospital.

You ignore both satellite campuses that will be established at Taillight and Blanch

If you have a kid with "life limiting issues" you'd be blue lighted in anyway

If it was put outside your door , you'd be complaining

the problem in ireland is not the execution, its the moaners and groaners that spoil everything

BoatMad

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

...tell me more about this.


I've been looking at the website and maybe I have my bearings wrong, but what is going to happen all the new large development (down near where the Luas turns in for the current stop) on the current St James campus that has just been complete recently?
cause looking at the proposed layout they are up for chop, surely not?

There are two new satellite campuses, one in Blanch and one in Tallaght, admissions will be made there , and if necessary transferred subsequently by dedicated ambulance to the central site

Many people turn up at a children hospital merely to be sent home a few hours later rather then admitted, all this will be done in the satellite campuses

Leo explained it all on the news !!

so if the ruralites can just force themselves along the motorways to tallaght and blanch and hold their sensitive noses against the nearby smell of Dublin , they can reach the children hospital without experiencing the inner city at all. :cool:

Lavinia

laserlad2010 wrote: »

This site is the best we have. We have traded accessibility (somewhat) ...

Parking is always an issue.

I do not get why only 2 underground parking floors, that allowed only 420 more parking places than what is currently available. Wouldn't a third floor be a huge benefit to the area especially if the traffic is going to be hugely increased due to the new hospital (so to add at least something traffic wise)

I am aware that the price of one underground parking space is enormous proportionally to the costs of the building but these kind of structures are not built every day on every corner

laserlad2010

Lavinia wrote: »

I do not get why only 2 underground parking floors, that allowed only 420 more parking places than what is currently available. Wouldn't a third floor be a huge benefit to the area especially if the traffic is going to be hugely increased due to the new hospital (so to add at least something traffic wise)

I am aware that the price of one underground parking space is enormous proportionally to the costs of the building but these kind of structures are not built every day on every corner

I will confess I paid very little attention, beyond the initial large concepts, to parking. I was more interested in ensuring that various departments would have enough space to grow and develop.

I will say this - car parks make money. Hospitals want money. Therefore the hospital would have done everything in it's power to create more car parking spaces. I think DCC have regulations to control car park building, I may be wrong.