ASTI Vote on Croke park hours

MrJones1973

Im sure most of you know about this. Im a bit disappointed in ASTI Nuacht which fails to point out that
A) Increment freeze should really state increment delay will continue ie you get increments 6 months later than normal
b) If they dont pay s and s allowance we dont do s and s!
c) Positive outcomes of LR outlined but none of the negatives-ie no strike power and no ability to resist ongoing change.

What is the feeling in your staff room?

deiseindublin

I read their stuff last night but couldn't see a recommendation?

Icsics

I am absolutely disgusted with that Nuacht. The ballot on CP was meant to be a rubber stamp on pulling them, instead its turning into a rerun of the LR agreement, which we rejected!
The question is who sanctioned the scaremongering in that Nuacht ?, not CEC, who actually voted against motions last week (to publish) regarding the Govt threats.
I'm just hoping members will vote in their droves to end these disasterous hours, but who know?. We could very well be stuck with them forever. The Govt seem to be able to rewrite these 'agreements' & roll one cut into the next. Enough is enough now though:mad:

MrJones1973

To be fair-the Nuacht had to specify consequences of rejecting Croke park hours. I just thought it could have explained it all better. However Im still hopeful it will be rejected. (ie croke park hours over turned) For teachers who should be aware of great social victories in history-we are at times a fatalistic lot. Look at water charges campaign. Im not saying Im for or against them-but foregone conclusions were over turned.

Nothing is set in stone. Forward comrades-forward. Yeah-I know comrades seems a bit ancient but it beats the hell out of making me a stakeholder! A consumer etc

ethical

Re: S & S, the teachers that do it now (rather than taking a pay cut a few years back) are now being told that due to us NOT signing up to Lansdowne that we will NOT get the money that was to be returned to our salary as a payment for doing S & S ,are we within our right then to NOT do S & S from here on in?

What about the people that opted for not doing S & S a few years ago and took the pay cut in lieu,are they going (or were they ever in line for the return of the forsaken money) and if they are in line for it will they now have to do S & S?

2011abc

ethical wrote: »

What about the people that opted for not doing S & S a few years ago and took the pay cut in lieu,are they going (or were they ever in line for the return of the forsaken money) and if they are in line for it will they now have to do S & S?

So some might have to work the hours they paid not to have to work !?

It sounds like comedy but the latest circular claims that if the union dont roll over non union members will be penalised .

Welcome to Ireland 2016 !

(and yes the 'opt out' people were due to be paid for the work they paid not to do -but now may have to work the hours they paid not to work -?Hope that clears things up...)

joebloggs32

2011abc wrote: »

So some might have to work the hours they paid not to have to work !?

It sounds like comedy but the latest circular claims that if the union dont roll over non union members will be penalised .

Welcome to Ireland 2016 !

(and yes the 'opt out' people were due to be paid for the work they paid not to do -but now may have to work the hours they paid not to work -?Hope that clears things up...)

Clear as mud!

ethical

So we can expect some chaos in staffrooms as we will now end up with even more divisions and payscales! Get the teachers fighting with themselves.Enda is one cute hoor!

man_no_plan

Croke park hours wont affect the DES too much.
It'll piss theem off no end though. As far as they are concerned the hoirs are bought and paid for.

If s&s is stopped schools will have to close.

If I wasn't in a union before I'd be getting into one now.

km79

apparently the prospect of a BIGGER giveaway budget than planned for FF and FG to agree to go into govt together ..........and yet we are being threatened with FEMPI and what's worse I heard a few in our staff room saying they voting to KEEP CP hours rather than take a "massive hit"
I despair sometimes !

man_no_plan

km79 wrote: »

apparently the prospect of a BIGGER giveaway budget than planned for FF and FG to agree to go into govt together ..........and yet we are being threatened with FEMPI and what's worse I heard a few in our staff room saying they voting to KEEP CP hours rather than take a "massive hit"
I despair sometimes !

You'd have to draw a picture for some of them.

joebloggs32

I heard yesterday that the ACCS have issued a circular to principals to plan for croke park hours next year. It will get even more complicated in community schools if the ASTI vote against them an the TUI accept, or vice versa

Icsics

ASTI ballot just gone in the post, YES to get rid of CP useless hours😄

amacca

I hope thats the way it goes. Once those are in thats it for good.

Some of my former colleagues seem put so little into informing themselves properly about these votes I often find myself thinking they deserve what they get. Listening to them discuss it you'd think a change in the wind direction would cause them to change their minds! They put countless hours into trivial tasks, you'd think 10 minutes of serious thought about a decision that could potentially change their working conditions for the rest of their lives wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

evolving_doors

amacca wrote: »

I hope thats the way it goes. Once those are in thats it for good.

Some of my former colleagues seem put so little into informing themselves properly about these votes I often find myself thinking they deserve what they get. Listening to them discuss it you'd think a change in the wind direction would cause them to change their minds! They put countless hours into trivial tasks, you'd think 10 minutes of serious thought about a decision that could potentially change their working conditions for the rest of their lives wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

Just ask them do they like doing CP... If the answer is yes then walk away.. If answer is no then tell em that they have a vote to get rid of them.... As was part of the original deal. Michael Noonans says the emergency is over so therefore he is saying FEMPI is over. The clue is in the name.

amacca

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Just ask them do they like doing CP... If the answer is yes then walk away.. If answer is no then tell em that they have a vote to get rid of them.... As was part of the original deal. Michael Noonans says the emergency is over so therefore he is saying FEMPI is over. The clue is in the name.

Oh I'll say it

And yet they will probably still vote on the basis they think they'll lose pay if they vote not to do the CP

Irony being they will be the ones I'll hear bitching most about CP (and rightly so up to now) if they end up not being scrapped. And I'll probably tell them again how they shot themselves in the foot and end up being the most unpopular guest at whatever the gathering is, especially when you tot up the financial gains after tax and see it in the light of what's owed anyway if govt has a word/honour etc and probably will have to be conceded eventually given its being done on the basis of fempi when the "emergency" is supposed to be over.

At least my OH has some sense, she's voting to get rid of them anyway.

gammy_knees

When the HRA was passed, two of the many conditions agreed were (i) salaries of those who had been cut by FEMPI would be restored in April 2017 and Jan 2018 and (ii) s & s payments would be made in Sept 16 and Sept 17.
Why is it that these are now being threatened by the DES in the row over CP hours? We fulfilled our part of the HRA and are entitled to get what the deal promised. I think if it comes to pass that the CP hours are voted down and the DES proceeds as threatened, there will be plenty cause for us to go to the gate. They're trying to renege on an agreed deal!

amacca

gammy_knees wrote: »

When the HRA was passed, two of the many conditions agreed were (i) salaries of those who had been cut by FEMPI would be restored in April 2017 and Jan 2018 and (ii) s & s payments would be made in Sept 16 and Sept 17.
Why is it that these are now being threatened by the DES in the row over CP hours? We fulfilled our part of the HRA and are entitled to get what the deal promised. I think if it comes to pass that the CP hours are voted down and the DES proceeds as threatened, there will be plenty cause for us to go to the gate. They're trying to renege on an agreed deal!

Exactly, That should be made much clearer to some of the people I heard "discussing" the vote today.

deiseindublin

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I heard yesterday that the ACCS have issued a circular to principals to plan for croke park hours next year. It will get even more complicated in community schools if the ASTI vote against them an the TUI accept, or vice versa

We've no calendar set for coming back in August yet and I'm wondering if this has any bearing on it.

Wondering if principals are holding out to see if there will be CP days or not?
(or maybe that's just me with my tin hat on again).

TheDriver

gammy_knees wrote: »

When the HRA was passed, two of the many conditions agreed were (i) salaries of those who had been cut by FEMPI would be restored in April 2017 and Jan 2018 and (ii) s & s payments would be made in Sept 16 and Sept 17.
Why is it that these are now being threatened by the DES in the row over CP hours? We fulfilled our part of the HRA and are entitled to get what the deal promised. I think if it comes to pass that the CP hours are voted down and the DES proceeds as threatened, there will be plenty cause for us to go to the gate. They're trying to renege on an agreed deal!

See my thread on writing to your FF TD, its even written into circulars that those 2 things along with increments all come back from July onwards in a certain timeframe. I would make no bones about everyone should be writing to their local TDs so they know the real discontent on the ground before they make another "easy" decision and wonder why they get no votes........

km79

Dept have released what can only be described as a threatening circular
In it there is a lot of "possible " downsides to (as they put it ) "repudiating LRA"
One thing in it is not present as "possible " but as fact
S and S payments will not be made
Now if any sane person signs up to another agreement after conditions of another one not being met AGAIN despite work being delivered tbey need their head examined
I hope that rather than dividing and conquering this circular acts as a rallying call to all in the teachining profession
http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Information/Payroll-Financial-Information/ASTI-Ballot-FAQ.html

TheDriver

What about all their circulars from Haddington Rd stating the agreements?? This is seriously annoying and frustrating. I will definitely email every TD I can find about this and recommend we do the same, it nearly merits a Dail question?

amacca

Radio stations picking including details like teachers could face sanctions up to and including compulsory redundancy if they don't cooperate with croke park hours

Even though they have cooperated with them to date and agreement to do them is about to run out.

I can't decide if its desperation/arrogance or bully boy fear tactics on behalf of DES or a mixture of the three. Either way I hope it acts to galvanise people to stick together on this one.

coillsaille

All the threats that have been issued I had assumed were possible anyway due to the rejection of the LRA. Just wondering what the story is with the TUI? Will they be voting on the CP hours also?

Alqua

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0505/786381-asti-croke-park-hours/
'Warning for teachers over ballot on Croke Park hours'

The RTE story makes for shocking reading. Lists the dramatic threats. No mention of HRA (of course) or the fact that CP has run its course. Fuming!

amacca

Alqua wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0505/786381-asti-croke-park-hours/
'Warning for teachers over ballot on Croke Park hours'

The RTE story makes for shocking reading. Lists the dramatic threats. No mention of HRA (of course) or the fact that CP has run its course. Fuming!

is it disgusting sensationalist fear tactics or lazy journalism or both.... a fair balanced story with two sides would be nice but i suppose thats just not entertainment, a bit too sophisticated for the times we live in

deiseindublin

I just don't understand why TUI and ASTI aren't making statements saying we were promised X if we did Y and now they're changing the goal posts.

I feel like we have deaf mutes representing us.

evolving_doors

deiseindublin wrote: »

I just don't understand why TUI and ASTI aren't making statements saying we were promised X if we did Y and now they're changing the goal posts.

I feel like we have deaf mutes representing us.

Yes it was a little bit disheartening to hear Kieran Christe interviewed by PKenny... pat set him up with strawman arguments like "oh what about the bad teachers" etc. and he fell for it hook line and sinker.

If people try and draw you on the 'holidays/bad teachers' just ask what this debate is about?

Quite simply, are we in an emergency (FEMPI) or not... Michael Noonan says we are not.. so there!!

He stated so in February.. noonan-fg-to-abolish-usc-because-emergency-is-over-1.2525659

Alqua

I also feel this thread should be printed out and put up in every staffroom as compulsory reading..

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Alqua wrote: »

I also feel this thread should be printed out and put up in every staffroom as compulsory reading..

Take a typical school staff of 50..How many of those are active union members who passionately oppose CPH?

Be honest-You'd be doing well to find 10.

Sure,the remaining 40 will mutter their disapproval and shake their heads ruefully for appearances sake,but ultimately they're just not that put out by it.

We all know how this will play out:

There'll be a turn out of about 33%
The hardcore will celebrate a victory
The government/media will ramp up bully boy tactics to force a 2nd ballot.
The silent majority (the 40) will be frightened into voting for CPH to remain.

ethical

While I fully agree with 'The Driver' and the wonderful letter we should all send to our local politician should we not also compose a letter and send it to our respective Unions to get up off their fat arses and represent us.There is no reason at all to vote in the upcoming ballotts if our Unions are not going to stand behind our decisions.Bad enough that we agreed and fulfilled the various agreements on the promise that some of the FEMPI acts would be withdrawn........and now we find that they will not be withdrawn afterall! Do we live in a Banana Republic or what? We would be better off working for Kim in North Korea,at least we would get what he promised us!!!!