EL Semi Final 1st leg, Villarreal v Liverpool, BT and Setanta 20:05pm

Utopia Parkway

Villareal actually weren't as good as I thought they'd be. Especially given all the players Liverpool are missing. That goal has given them a chance though for the return leg. Score at Anfield and Liverpool will need 3.

monkey9

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The goal is typical Villareal, some of their play tonight was excellent, their movement off the ball and the unusual angles they play at make them one of the most interesting teams to watch in Europe. They were up against an excellently coached Liverpool side so it's tough, I've seen them put in far more complete performances this season but that was a massive win in so many ways.

No the Villarreal performance. Is that typical?

BorneTobyWilde

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Villareal actually weren't as good as I thought they'd be. Especially given all the players Liverpool are missing. That goal has given them a chance though for the return leg. Score at Anfield and Liverpool will need 3.

We'll score 4 ./

Osmosis Jones

monkey9 wrote: »

No the Villarreal performance. Is that typical?

How would he know? He's only been watching them a couple weeks sure.

SlickRic

Slattsy wrote: »

Cant help but we've shown them too much respect tonight. They're not great.

Too negative from Klopp.

This is bang on the money.

Villareal were no great shakes tonight. We could've easily won this leg with a bit of bravery in our substitutions.

BorneTobyWilde

That first touch from the long pass was killer. He just needed one touch more to lay it on a plate.

irishguitarlad

Hope liverpool go through as I think Sevilla would beat villareal very easily. Its very achievable.

dfx-

monkey9 wrote: »

No the Villarreal performance. Is that typical?

Recently they've been in poor form and might be caught in the league, but then is that because they had an eye on this tie..

~Rebel~

monkey9 wrote: »

No the Villarreal performance. Is that typical?

I bloody hope so! if it is, we have a great chance at home. They really were a lot poorer tonight than I expected.

dfx- wrote: »

Big goal, I'd fancy Villarreal to defend very well again, even at Anfield.

I'm not even sure how well they defended to be honest...we just weren't asking questions.

Laois_Man

These are going to score at Anfield. Liverpool will have to win by 2

Andersonisgod

monkey9 wrote: »

No the Villarreal performance. Is that typical?

I'd say ordinarily they'd press a bit more aggressively in the first phase but Liverpool flooded the midfield, giving them fairly routine routes through the press. Other than that the structure was much the same, 2 strikers, 2 attacking midfield players, 2 central midfielders with Bruno dictating the tempo, two attacking full backs and ball playing centre backs. I'd say performance wise they are capable of going up a gear but they did create some good chances tonight and, aside from 2 poor individual errors, really limited Liverpool's attacking threat to crosses and long shots.

8-10

Macca makes a solid point. Based on tonight, Villarreal were no Dortmund or United. We're not out yet

Andersonisgod

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

How would he know? He's only been watching them a couple weeks sure.

Check the La Liga thread, check my comments on Villareal and you'll see how far back they stretch and how often.

bur

8-10 wrote: »

Macca makes a solid point. Based on tonight, Villarreal were no Dortmund or United. We're not out yet

they'll be dangerous on the break. Very well organised. Gong to be tight. They score we need to win by three on the night.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd say ordinarily they'd press a bit more aggressively in the first phase but Liverpool flooded the midfield, giving them fairly routine routes through the press. Other than that the structure was much the same, 2 strikers, 2 attacking midfield players, 2 central midfielders with Bruno dictating the tempo, two attacking full backs and ball playing centre backs. I'd say performance wise they are capable of going up a gear but they did create some good chances tonight and, aside from 2 poor individual errors, really limited Liverpool's attacking threat to crosses and long shots.

Copy and paste that from a text book?

ERG89

Andersonisgod wrote:

His worry was exactly what transpired at that last goal. Sturridge isn't particularly strong pressing the ball (neither is Benteke but I understand that switch) allowing Villareal more space in midfield is a recipe for disaster, that kind of goal is what they thrive on. On top of that playing a false 9 allowed more controlled possession and surely the idea was to unsettle them with movement from deep.

Firmino gave away the ball constantly so I don't get this bollocks about controlling possession.
Why were we crossing it in (badly) to nodody?
Very happy Klopp is managing us but he fùcked up tonight as we nearly got caught late on before that too.

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

Copy and paste that from a text book?

I'm glad you consider my Villareal assessment to be "textbook."

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm glad you consider my Villareal assessment to be "textbook."

No I consider it waffly generic nonsense.

Andersonisgod

ERG89 wrote: »

Firmino gave away the ball constantly so I don't get this bollocks about controlling possession.
Why were we crossing it in (badly) to nodody?
Very happy Klopp is managing us but he fùcked up tonight as we nearly got caught late on before that too.

It's more to offer passing channels out from the back line that Sturridge does not. I'm not Klopp but if I were to hazard a guess at his thought process it would be that Villareal may have been comfortable and happy dealing with long passes down the channels of the centre backs if Sturridge had of played and it might have helped their pressing efforts too. Firmino's positioning is impressive, he does offer Liverpool something when they are building possession.

Andersonisgod

8-10 wrote: »

You'd think you could spell their name correctly by now then.

Unfortunately my autocorrect just pops that one up so I roll with it. If I'm being judged on spelling (considering I'm on a phone) rather than content then I fear for Boards.

monkey9

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd say ordinarily they'd press a bit more aggressively in the first phase but Liverpool flooded the midfield, giving them fairly routine routes through the press. Other than that the structure was much the same, 2 strikers, 2 attacking midfield players, 2 central midfielders with Bruno dictating the tempo, two attacking full backs and ball playing centre backs. I'd say performance wise they are capable of going up a gear but they did create some good chances tonight and, aside from 2 poor individual errors, really limited Liverpool's attacking threat to crosses and long shots.

I've heard a lot of good things about Bruno alright. I expected a lot more from Villarreal tonight. Next week is a different game of course, but there's nothing there from Villarreal that scares me.

Lack of an away goal is a worry of course, (should have had that but barring that officiating error), but i'd be confident enough next week.

8-10

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Unfortunately my autocorrect just pops that one up so I roll with it. If I'm being judged on spelling (considering I'm on a phone) rather than content then I fear for Boards.

Nah I'm just jesting. How do you think they'd do in a final v Sevilla?

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

No I consider it waffly generic nonsense.

What bit didn't you like. Please offer me some opinions of Villareal based on your extensive knowledge of the Spanish club. Do you think they pressed well tonight? Did you appreciate Suarez using those outside to in runs? How did you feel about Liverpool's considerably less aggressive press tonight? Too much respect for Villareal's ability to play out under pressure or a wise decision considering the goal in the end? How do you feel about Liverpool's inability to make anything happen in wide areas which were almost uncontested up to a point.

Andersonisgod

8-10 wrote: »

Nah I'm just jesting. How do you think they'd do in a final v Sevilla?

I think well. They are an excellent team and easily one of my favourites to watch. Sevilla have more experience in those kinds if situations though and just seem to be particularly good in this competition. Also trying to maintain 4th place in the league might harm them a bit too. Overall though I think they would compete and it would be close.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What bit didn't you like. Please offer me some opinions of Villareal based on your extensive knowledge of the Spanish club. Do you think they pressed well tonight? Did you appreciate Suarez using those outside to in runs? How did you feel about Liverpool's considerably less aggressive press tonight? Too much respect for Villareal's ability to play out under pressure or a wise decision considering the goal in the end? How do you feel about Liverpool's inability to make anything happen in wide areas which were almost uncontested up to a point.

I think the quarter back held onto the ball in the deep zones too long. The pitcher should have communicated the plays better. Buzz word buzz word, counter channel press channel.

Andersonisgod

monkey9 wrote: »

I've heard a lot of good things about Bruno alright. I expected a lot more from Villarreal tonight. Next week is a different game of course, but there's nothing there from Villarreal that scares me.

Lack of an away goal is a worry of course, (should have had that but barring that officiating error), but i'd be confident enough next week.

He's excellent and probably only now receiving the wider recognition he deserved for some time. Also important to note that Villareal have stronger squad depth than you'd expect for a club of that size and that was demonstrated tonight by being able to bring on players like Mussachio, Samu and Adrian.

Certainly the tie is still in the balance, though to go into the 2nd leg with a lead and no away goals conceded is a big boost for Villareal.

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

I think the quarter back held onto the ball in the deep zones too long. The pitcher should have communicated the plays better. Buzz word buzz word, counter channel press channel.

So you watched a different sport?

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So you watched a different sport?

Sounds like I was watching a different sport to you anyway. I bet you're a big NFL fan?

dfx-

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I bloody hope so! if it is, we have a great chance at home. They really were a lot poorer tonight than I expected.

I'm not even sure how well they defended to be honest...we just weren't asking questions.

I only saw the second half, but now Villarreal don't have to throw people forward and they were already leaving 5-6 back, what could Liverpool do next week differently? Of course they could get a 25 yard screamer, but that's always a chance.

Benteke?

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

Sounds like I was watching a different sport to you anyway. I bet you're a big NFL fan?

I'm not, so what do I win?

If I'm to offer a less aloof response, how odd it is to criticise a football fan using football terms.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm not, so what do I win?

If I'm to offer a less aloof response, how odd it is to criticise a football fan using football terms.

There's using terms and over using terms. Unusual angles. God.

monkey9

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He's excellent and probably only now receiving the wider recognition he deserved for some time. Also important to note that Villareal have stronger squad depth than you'd expect for a club of that size and that was demonstrated tonight by being able to bring on players like Mussachio, Samu and Adrian.

Certainly the tie is still in the balance, though to go into the 2nd leg with a lead and no away goals conceded is a big boost for Villareal.

This is our concern.

Corholio

Villarreal were very impressive in moving the ball out of tight situations. You could almost see the frustration of the Liverpool players a few times when they went right in on closing down a player and the ball was played round the corner to another player who played another pass and suddenly Villarreal were taking the ball forward from the middle of the field. 2nd leg will be quite good definitely. Firmino is a little too easy at times to nick the ball off, especially when players get right on top of him.

monkey9

We need a fully fit (healthy) Coutinho back and i'm sure Sturridge will start as well.

Villarreal will be tough enough to get past at this stage, but let's see what Anfield can do.

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

There's using terms and over using terms. Unusual angles. God.

You don't like the unusual angles off which they operate? Check out some of those passing movements and those deep inside runs from a wide position. To be very honest it's a bit disappointing that a night after every man, woman child and dog laud Simeone's expertly drilled Atletico team that Marcelino isn't shown the same love. The evidence of his work is so firmly imprinted upon this team, it is a finely tuned machine that exemplifies all the hallmarks of an excellently coached football team.

~Rebel~

dfx- wrote: »

I only saw the second half, but now Villarreal don't have to throw people forward and they were already leaving 5-6 back, what could Liverpool do next week differently? Of course they could get a 25 yard screamer, but that's always a chance.

Benteke?

Yeah, Villarreal not having to push forward is definitely a problem alright.

Would expect us to pose them a lot more issues next game though, just by having Coutinho playing (and not sick), and a centre forward of any kind. All of our attackers tonight were misfiring, would be surprised to see them as poor again - Ibe (who won't play I presume), Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana...all have much more about them than they showed. Plus of course Sturridge, who you have to presume will start at home.

That home atmosphere should really help too.

cj maxx

Pretty **** game

Flint Fredstone

Liverpool didn't offer much at all although Joe Allen really should have had them ahead early on which would have changed the complexion of the game.
It will be an interesting second leg. I wouldn't be too surprised to see Villareal shut out Liverpool again. I certainly don't see them ship goals like that flimsy Dortmund defence.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

You don't like the unusual angles off which they operate? Check out some of those passing movements and those deep inside runs from a wide position. To be very honest it's a bit disappointing that a night after every man, woman child and dog laud Simeone's expertly drilled Atletico team that Marcelino isn't shown the same love. The evidence of his work is so firmly imprinted upon this team, it is a finely tuned machine that exemplifies all the hallmarks of an excellently coached football team.

Oh I love the unusual angles. What would be a usual angle in football? Or is it just about showing for the ball in a totally common sense type of way and the usuality of the geometry is not at all important?

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

Oh I love the unusual angles. What would be a usual angle in football? Or is it just about showing for the ball in a totally common sense type of way and the usuality of the geometry is not at all important?

I'd say it's passes attempted or made and angles offered to the player in possession which deviate from the norm in those particular positions. It's tough to illustrate without video assistance but had you been sat beside me for the last 90 minutes and if I had control of the pause and play function of digibox then we would have been in business.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'd say it's passes attempted or made and angles offered to the player in possession which deviate from the norm in those particular positions. It's tough to illustrate without video assistance but had you been sat beside me for the last 90 minutes and if I had control of the pause and play function of digibox then we would have been in business.

I have to admit that would be good craic.

Ok I'll be serious. I think you are over complicating showing for a pass. If I am understanding you correctly, an unusual angle is a more aggressive showing going forward.

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

I have to admit that would be good craic.

Ok I'll be serious. I think you are over complicating showing for a pass. If I am understanding you correctly, an unusual angle is a more aggressive showing going forward.

People underestimate how enjoyable I am to watch football with.

Not so much aggressive as irregular. The kind of pass/offer/movement that elicits a little gasp. Usually watching on a TV screen you can predict passing patterns, movements ect. it's when one of those happen that you didn't expect and that beats a player or breaks a line or momentarily disorientates the opponent that makes it a bit special, and that draws an audible sound of shock.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

People underestimate how enjoyable I am to watch football with.

Not so much aggressive as irregular. The kind of pass/offer/movement that elicits a little gasp. Usually watching on a TV screen you can predict passing patterns, movements ect. it's when one of those happen that you didn't expect and that beats a player or breaks a line or momentarily disorientates the opponent that makes it a bit special, and that draws an audible sound of shock.

But isn't that just individual skill and confidence? I think you are making it sound like something that comes from the coach. The coach encourages it.

We have all played with a sideways Joe. Couldn't pass forward for his life. Then i have played with great players where every pass was after a quick dummy movement. / a flick / a wee back spinner around the corner.

Not unusual angles. Just ability.

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

But isn't that just individual skill and confidence? I think you are making it sound like something that comes from the coach. The coach encourages it.

We have all played with a sideways Joe. Couldn't pass forward for his life. Then i have played with great players where every pass was after a quick dummy movement. / a flick / a wee back spinner around the corner.

Not unusual angles. Just ability.

As I said it's far tougher to explain this without visual aids. Absolutely the players require a lot of ability to play this way, equally though you'll notice repeat patterns to some of the movements, you'll notice repeat movements like Bakambu's horizontal runs across the width of the box coupled with a late runner from deep to get onto the lay off. While for Villareal many of their movements might be routine I can honestly say that watching the football that I do each weekend they work off more unusual runs, passes and patterns than you'd see on average. You can't exactly back that up statistically so it's very much open to interpretation but I'm just giving you my interpretation.

monkey9

Andersonisgod wrote: »

People underestimate how enjoyable I am to watch football with.

Not so much aggressive as irregular. The kind of pass/offer/movement that elicits a little gasp. Usually watching on a TV screen you can predict passing patterns, movements ect. it's when one of those happen that you didn't expect and that beats a player or breaks a line or momentarily disorientates the opponent that makes it a bit special, and that draws an audible sound of shock.

Are you a taxi driver?

Andersonisgod

monkey9 wrote: »

Are you a taxi driver?

Absolutely not, I'm simply an admirer of all things beautiful.

HardenendMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

As I said it's far tougher to explain this without visual aids. Absolutely the players require a lot of ability to play this way, equally though you'll notice repeat patterns to some of the movements, you'll notice repeat movements like Bakambu's horizontal runs across the width of the box coupled with a late runner from deep to get onto the lay off. While for Villareal many of their movements might be routine I can honestly say that watching the football that I do each weekend they work off more unusual runs, passes and patterns than you'd see on average. You can't exactly back that up statistically so it's very much open to interpretation but I'm just giving you my interpretation.

Cool. You have won me over in the sense that I now enjoy reading your bull$hit. Just kidding!

I think it's as simple as this - you can keep up the geometrical analysis, be as good as Gary Neville at it. Then manage a team and find out that the average players won't be able to implement these NFL type plays through the channels. And the teams with the best players will win out. Sure these better players do more unpredictable and less "usual" things, but it is a natural thing that they do and not obtained through video analysis.

Demosthenese

Andersonisgod wrote: »

As I said it's far tougher to explain this without visual aids. Absolutely the players require a lot of ability to play this way, equally though you'll notice repeat patterns to some of the movements, you'll notice repeat movements like Bakambu's horizontal runs across the width of the box coupled with a late runner from deep to get onto the lay off. While for Villareal many of their movements might be routine I can honestly say that watching the football that I do each weekend they work off more unusual runs, passes and patterns than you'd see on average. You can't exactly back that up statistically so it's very much open to interpretation but I'm just giving you my interpretation.

So you see things that others do not ... clap clap ... please, pretending you see more than you do while watching on the tv than in RL is a joke. Horizontal runs across the width of the box ... gas stuff. A bit like his counter clockwise movement in the last third while deeply penetrating the line between the midfield and backline ... Pffft.

Lets compare them to Simeone's team ... no wait you've already attempted that joke before.

Hope you are all on the batter lads.

SEPT 23 1989

I take it that from the high number of posts that Liverpool didn't win tonight

Andersonisgod

HardenendMan wrote: »

Cool. You have won me over in the sense that I now enjoy reading your bull$hit. Just kidding!

I think it's as simple as this - you can keep up the geometrical analysis, be as good as Gary Neville at it. Then manage a team and find out that the average players won't be able to implement these NFL type plays through the channels. And the teams with the best players will win out. Sure these better players do more unpredictable and less "usual" things, but it is a natural thing that they do and not obtained through video analysis.

Darn, I thought I was close to converting someone to Andersonism.

I do manage a team btw. Of course at a professional level it's a million miles different, and of course analysis is easier than forming strategy beforehand, afterall as far as I'm aware nobody on this Board coaches a top level club. Though you don't have to be a top level coach to spot recurring patterns to know what's been worked on and what hasn't, and this Villareal side is marches to the beat of Marcelino's tune.