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The new Politics Cafe charter

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  • 28-04-2016 7:01pm
    #1
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭


    The new charter for the Politics Cafe has been posted here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057591263

    Out of curiosity, what has actually been changed? This doesn't seem to be a new charter so much as the old one, but with the caveat that civility rules are going to be enforced more thoroughly - or am I missing something?
    Post edited by Shield on


«13

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    #2
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Main change is the move from "light" moderation, with an emphasis on a requirement to be civil at all times, calling out specifics in relation to the forum, and referencing the boards ts and cs


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    #3
    Lovely Bloke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭Lovely Bloke


    could you consider outlawing terms like "xxx-bot" and the likes.


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    #4
    Alf Stewart.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭Alf Stewart.


    Stheno wrote: »
    Main change is the move from "light" moderation, with an emphasis on a requirement to be civil at all times, calling out specifics in relation to the forum, and referencing the boards ts and cs

    How will a line be drawn between what's civil and what's not?

    Lets be honest here i do be flabbergasted at what seems to cross the line, and what doesn't in the current caf at times. Just seems to be down to the individual mods mood at the time.

    Just an observation.


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    #5
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,557 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Was there really a need to go full Nuclear on the forum and wipe out all of the threads? (or is it just me that can't see any?)


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    #6
    Alf Stewart.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,789 ✭✭✭Alf Stewart.


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Was there really a need to go full Nuclear on the forum and wipe out all of the threads? (or is it just me that can't see any?)

    I reckon they zapped them (temporarily) due to the glitch that was allowing people to post n it still.


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    #7
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Was there really a need to go full Nuclear on the forum and wipe out all of the threads? (or is it just me that can't see any?)

    If you read the update that was posted this afternoon, that was done to enable the forum reopening more quickly.

    All of the threads are still there and being reviewed, as referenced in the update

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99546638&postcount=3


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    #8
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Don't know why they have to close all previous threads as they don't have the time to 'prune' them, rather than just enforce the new rules from this point on.


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    #9
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Well that's one of your busiest forums killed! Good job guys.


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    #10
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    gallag wrote: »
    Well that's one of your busiest forums killed! Good job guys.

    Jaysus, don't be so dramatic.


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    #11
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Don't know why they have to close all previous threads as they don't have the time to 'prune' them, rather than just enforce the new rules from this point on.

    Because you'll get some muppet who'll link back or quote a previous thread that should have been left alone or equally in a year or two a newbie will refer to it unknowingly and then wonder why the mods clamp down.

    Doing otherwise would just invite failure as opposed to just making things difficult for a while. Choice of the lesser evil.


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    #12
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    How will a line be drawn between what's civil and what's not?
    In the same way that the line is drawn in many, many other forums across the rest of the site.

    Don't be a dick.


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    #13
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Taltos wrote: »
    Because you'll get some muppet who'll link back or quote a previous thread that should have been left alone or equally in a year or two a newbie will refer to it unknowingly and then wonder why the mods clamp down.

    Doing otherwise would just invite failure as opposed to just making things difficult for a while. Choice of the lesser evil.

    You're opening up a Pandoras box of groundhog days.


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    #14
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    There are thousands of threads throughout boards that go untouched when new rules were or are brought in, why the change now? Makes no sense to me.

    A big, charter updated on 28/4/16, post should be more than enough. 'Pruning' all previous threads seems like over kill and a lot of extra mod work.

    Is it being suggested that all threads will be reviewed!?


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    #15
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Is it being suggested that all threads will be reviewed!?

    That's how the alternative they put forward reads to me.


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    #16
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Jaysus, don't be so dramatic.
    Oh, sorry, didn't think I was being dramatic lol, just pointing out that modelling the politics cafe moderation on the other political forums will kill traffic to it, afterall for what reason do you believe the cafe was so popular, at least compared to the others? Look at international politics, probaly the most stringently moderated forum and days can pass without a post! Still, I could be wrong, I guess we will find out!


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    #17
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    A big, charter updated on 28/4/16, post should be more than enough.

    You'd think wouldn't you? That is, until you look at the old charter being updated & the all the trouble continuing on post-updates & warnings.
    'Pruning' all previous threads seems like over kill and a lot of extra mod work.

    Far from it, it's by far the lesser of two evils. As explained, it gives the mods and forum a clean slate to work from, no previous baggage to handle, & sets the right tone from the get go. Seriously, much of the previous content was looked at, & the standard of a lot of it was well below par. That type of stuff had to go, there was no choice in that matter. Considering then there was 80 pages of threads, pruning what had to go would have been a monumental task, & kept the forum closed for far longer than it was.
    Is it being suggested that all threads will be reviewed!?

    Whatever is relevant & appropriate will be reviewed & brought back if necessary. Give that some time though, there has been a lot of work done over the last few days behind the scenes by the mods there, & things needs time to settle down after today.

    For what it's worth, the mods there were very passionate about bringing this forum back from the brink. It would have been all too easy to call it a day on the Cafe, But the mods made a solid case for having another bash at it. While the timing of all of this was unfortunate, you should all know that the mods have put in some serious effort to make sure the cafe returned to you. It's obviously looks very bare now, but it won't take long to become as active as it was before.


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    #18
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    The tone is very different from the original cafe charter though, which was beautiful in its simplicity. This one is still pretty short but to the point.

    I think the mod team would be open to constructive suggestions. Personally I'd ban bot, shinner, blueshirt etc. but it may be too strict, or we are so uses to seeing them at this stage.

    Ideally the charter shouldn't be a consideration for 95% of the posters in the cafe.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #19
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Myrddin wrote: »
    For what it's worth, the mods there were very passionate about bringing this forum back from the brink.

    The brink? One of your busiest forums and certainly by many thousand percent your busiest politics forum on a site that requires traffic to generate revenue and is losing money and traffic every year? The brink of what?


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    #20
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    gallag wrote: »
    Oh, sorry, didn't think I was being dramatic lol, just pointing out that modelling the politics cafe moderation on the other political forums will kill traffic to it, afterall for what reason do you believe the cafe was so popular, at least compared to the others? Look at international politics, probaly the most stringently moderated forum and days can pass without a post! Still, I could be wrong, I guess we will find out!

    You haven't even posted yet gallag, give it a chance, and no, it will not be the same as the general forum.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #21
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,349 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I agree a change in direction was needed. I'd second a specific ban of 'xxx-bot' posts also. Ultimately threads have been getting clogged up with attacks on the poster and blanket sweeping 'anyone who disagrees is a scrounger' type nonsense.

    The decision to purge the previous content is a bold move that makes sense too. Those genuinely interested in discussion will back these changes in my view. Many regulars have seemed primarily interested in aggressively hammering the same narrow range of points over and over at every opportunity. I would shed no tears if these changes fail to impress them.

    Good job.


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    #22
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    K-9 wrote: »
    You haven't even posted yet gallag, give it a chance, and no, it will not be the same as the general forum.

    Haha, I just about survived the cafe with the light touch moderation, I don't think I'll bother, anyway I figure that's kinda the point? My time will be better spent finally figuring out reddit than appealing bans here, good luck with it though, some good mods in the cafe, probaly the best on boards! Thanks.


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    #23
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    gallag wrote: »
    Oh, sorry, didn't think I was being dramatic lol, just pointing out that modelling the politics cafe moderation on the other political forums will kill traffic to it, afterall for what reason do you believe the cafe was so popular, at least compared to the others? Look at international politics, probaly the most stringently moderated forum and days can pass without a post! Still, I could be wrong, I guess we will find out!

    The new charter does not model itself on the other forums' charters. Read it again. It lays the ground rules for how it will run in the future - more relaxed than the more seruiz forums, but less tolerance for the behaviour that was ruining the forum for many of its regulars.


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    #24
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Over moderation has reached the point where entire forums are getting torn down now.

    And the hemorrhaging of users continues unstaunched...

    Fairly soon the moderators will have no-one to moderate but each other.


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    #25
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    gallag wrote: »
    The brink? One of your busiest forums and certainly by many thousand percent your busiest politics forum on a site that requires traffic to generate revenue and is losing money and traffic every year? The brink of what?

    In all fairness it was a pure mess and not the worst idea to start from scratch again


    Though maybe as a sign of good fate they should resind bans/cards issued?


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    #26
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    The Hill Billy wrote: »
    In the same way that the line is drawn in many, many other forums across the rest of the site.

    Don't be a dick.

    "Don't be a dick" is too vauge to be a rule.


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    #27
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    I like this site, I've been a member for years but I fear over moderation will be the death of it.

    Obviously some moderation is needed, but as long as users aren't openly supporting illegal activity ( which, to be fair to the mods some users were) I would leave well enough alone


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    #28
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Over moderation has reached the point where entire forums are getting torn down now.

    And the hemorrhaging of users continues unstaunched...

    Fairly soon the moderators will have no-one to moderate but each other.
    Yet, you & many, many others are still here. And still need moderation to boot.


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    #29
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #30
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,726 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    People forget very easily that the level of moderation on this site is and has always been community driven.

    What sets this site apart from similar sites is that discussions here have rules to prevent them being wildly off topic or having dominant personalities taking over or having threads of pure vitriol being spat at one another etc.

    Over the years, through constant feedback and internal discussions, varying levels of moderation have been decided upon in various forums. The busiest forums naturally end up with stricter moderation under this model and that means strictly moderated forums are more visible and then the whole site gets branded as overly moderated.

    In my limited experience of reddit etc., although the moderators are not as visible or prolific, the site is heavily moderated because the community does the moderator's job by effectively hiding posts the community doesn't like or rewarding posts that fit their world view by putting them first after the op.

    The alternative is zero moderation, tbh. Imagine the siht-show that would be here.

    I quite like a site that doesn't let me come in and just shout abuse at people and forces me to add a little reason and civility to what I have to say.


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    #31
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,305 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    A few changes made (highlighted above) :)


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