The new Politics Cafe charter

K-9

Zaph wrote: »

A few changes made (highlighted above)

Cheers permabear and Zaph, should have spotted a few of those.

Semi colons and stuff, I'll get somebody more qualified. Bluewolf must be about here somewhere.

Just on the over all change, as I said before, I doubt 95% of the posters will be effected. The same very good mod team are there and are open to suggestions. The mods, or c-mods for that matter, really don't want to see people getting banned.

weisses

What about my thread in the help desk ? ... I made my case and now Every post I referred to is gone.

dudara

Don't worry, the Admins and CMods /Mods for the forum can still see the relevant posts. They are not available to regular users, or Mods/CMods not linked to the forum.

gandalf

I am very uncomfortable with the apparent removal of threads. I am not aware of something of this nature happening before on boards. When I asked for the soccer forum to be closed and then reopened as a access grant to post forum we never deleted threads retrospectively, if something was deemed out of order it was deleted there and then and that typically rarely happened.

I have seen the arguement that a new user might see a thread from the past and think that is the norm. If people read the charters then that arguement is null and void. I think you are setting a very dangerous precedent in retrospectively removing threads especially as boards is asserting it's commercial persona more. What next a new sponsor signs up and any negative posts about them in the past disappears. I suggest that all the pre-closure threads are restored but locked so no new posts can't be added. They are part of the history of boards and even though I don't like Politics Cafe and I didn't agree with it being set up I would support its posts being restored.

Again I will reiterate retrospective deletion of threads is setting a very dangerous precedent for boards and just diminishes the site further from it's roots.

weisses

dudara wrote: »

Don't worry, the Admins and CMods /Mods for the forum can still see the relevant posts. They are not available to regular users, or Mods/CMods not linked to the forum.

In this case they are relevant to me as well ... It's becoming a bit of a farce tbh

tomwaterford

weisses wrote: »

In this case they are relevant to me as well ... It's becoming a bit of a farce tbh

Just post the same/similar again??
(So long as it's within the rules)



Do people seriously thing it was gone anything other than a complete mess and ridiculous for large parts

Who in reality is going to read over some what were complete train wreaks of threads....I do hope it's moderated to some degree anyway now

Pintman Paddy Losty

Just see theres a thread here too about it. Just want to register my concern at threads being retrospectively 'pruned'. Very bad idea in my opinion.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm back down to 18 posts (19 after this one) from hundreds because almost all of mine were in here.

I honestly think you're wasting your time trying to read through and sanitise thousands upon thousands of posts. Its a pointless endeavour.

Just lock them and restore them. What's the fear? That people will try and use old posts that weren't carded as some kind of precedent?

I think it's a terrible idea. Those posts are essentially part of the public record. It can be interesting to see how people reacted to political events as the happened.

For example, you can still see how people were reacting to 9/11 the day it unfolded. It's fascinating.

Don't go trying to re-write history because someone called a poster a dirty shinner for standing up for Gerry Adams during the Slab Murphy affair. Just leave things as they are.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm totally on board with the new Café. I agree that it was overdue and hoping that the new forum prospers.

But what do you think about my point of those threads being an interesting insight in to what people were saying about daily political events? Maybe I'm just an anorak, but I think it's very interesting that we have a public record of exactly how the citizens of Ireland, or at least those ones that post on boards, discussed major political events. It won't be long until these events become history and I think it's important that the record remain intact, warts and all.

As you said, what's done is done. Everyone is aware of the new standards, so I don't see the harm in the old threads remaining intact, provided they are locked.

Dyr

hullaballoo wrote: »

People forget very easily that the level of moderation on this site is and has always been community driven.

What sets this site apart from similar sites is that discussions here have rules to prevent them being wildly off topic or having dominant personalities taking over or having threads of pure vitriol being spat at one another etc.

Over the years, through constant feedback and internal discussions, varying levels of moderation have been decided upon in various forums. The busiest forums naturally end up with stricter moderation under this model and that means strictly moderated forums are more visible and then the whole site gets branded as overly moderated.

Easy on self back slapping there, you'll do your rotator cuff in. That might have been the case once but those days are long, long gone. You sound like the branch davidians at this stage, holed up in a compound conversing only with your fellow kool aid drinkers, ignoring the outside world.

hatrickpatrick

Just want to point out that even though I made this thread, I personally have no issue with the new charter and have been fortunate enough to have been very rarely modded in the Cafe over the years. Essentially just asking here because as this charter is so similar to the last one, I wasn't sure what if any changes in behaviour would be required to continue my streak of rarely getting banhammered.

There's only one thing personally that I'd change about the Cafe as it is (was?), and that is that I wish people would stop using deliberately inflammatory phrases such as "SF/IRA", "loony left", "blueshirt" and so on to refer to politicians they don't like. It's very clearly not intended to actually make a point, it's intended purely and unequivocally to piss other posters off and goad them into a silly slagging competition.

hatrickpatrick

With regard to the moving of posts, could a compromise not be to perhaps set up a forum a bit like the Politics Archive which was created at forum 99 when the main politics forum was split? A closed forum which just preserves all the old posts from the Cafe, but is itself separate from the Cafe. Could give it a totally separate name so as not to confuse it with the reincarnated cafe (Call it the Dail Bar Archives for the craic )

Stheno

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

With regard to the moving of posts, could a compromise not be to perhaps set up a forum a bit like the Politics Archive which was created at forum 99 when the main politics forum was split? A closed forum which just preserves all the old posts from the Cafe, but is itself separate from the Cafe. Could give it a totally separate name so as not to confuse it with the reincarnated cafe (Call it the Dail Bar Archives for the craic )

That's under discussion at the moment

hatrickpatrick

Stheno wrote: »

That's under discussion at the moment

Lies. I expect some kind of shrine acknowledging that it was all my idea if that's the way ye decide to go

Stheno

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Lies. I expect some kind of shrine acknowledging that it was all my idea if that's the way ye decide to go

Sure. You can volunteer to be a mod there :pac:

hatrickpatrick

Stheno wrote: »

Sure. You can volunteer to be a mod there :pac:

On second thoughts, I'm pretty sure some imposter posted that message from my account - I for one think it's a terrible suggestion.

CabanSail

While this has been unprecedented it has been coming for a long time. The closure was necessary and I assumed it was going to be a while before being opened again. It was due to a lot of work by the whole team which made the closure as short as it was. As has been stated many times we opted to reopen sooner and all the old threads are just soft deleted. The discussion on how they will be managed is still under discussion. Let me make one thing clear. There has been no push to delete anything because of any viewpoint or political affiliation etc. It has all been about the level of muppetry expressed by some.

weisses

tomwaterford wrote: »

Just post the same/similar again??
(So long as it's within the rules)

Not possible in regards to other people's posts ... Just read that thread and you understand

weisses

CabanSail wrote: »

While this has been unprecedented it has been coming for a long time. The closure was necessary and I assumed it was going to be a while before being opened again. It was due to a lot of work by the whole team which made the closure as short as it was. As has been stated many times we opted to reopen sooner and all the old threads are just soft deleted. The discussion on how they will be managed is still under discussion. Let me make one thing clear. There has been no push to delete anything because of any viewpoint or political affiliation etc. It has all been about the level of muppetry expressed by some.

Mods needed a reset because of how they moderated, not of some muppetry by some posters.

You can ban people, close threads... Etc But you choose the nuclear option all because some posters behaving badly ???

my help desk thread explains perfectly what is wrong .. But even there the point I made is avoided ....

CabanSail

The forum, in it's past incarnation, was "light touch moderation" to allow some banter. We were moderating it as such. This was an experiment which was not not successful. That has now changed and the moderation style can now be adjusted accordingly. It has been explained why there was drastic action taken. It was to draw a line and so that forum can be relaunched in the new format.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

weisses

CabanSail wrote: »

The forum, in it's past incarnation, was "light touch moderation" to allow some banter. We were moderating it as such.

It was not all banter that was allowed .... Just look at the immigration thread alone.

CabanSail

weisses wrote: »

It was not all banter that was allowed .... Just look at the immigration thread alone.

Hence the end to light touch moderation and the relaunched forum.

Satriale

gandalf wrote: »

I am very uncomfortable with the apparent removal of threads. I am not aware of something of this nature happening before on boards. When I asked for the soccer forum to be closed and then reopened as a access grant to post forum we never deleted threads retrospectively, if something was deemed out of order it was deleted there and then and that typically rarely happened.

I have seen the arguement that a new user might see a thread from the past and think that is the norm. If people read the charters then that arguement is null and void. I think you are setting a very dangerous precedent in retrospectively removing threads especially as boards is asserting it's commercial persona more. What next a new sponsor signs up and any negative posts about them in the past disappears. I suggest that all the pre-closure threads are restored but locked so no new posts can't be added. They are part of the history of boards and even though I don't like Politics Cafe and I didn't agree with it being set up I would support its posts being restored.

Again I will reiterate retrospective deletion of threads is setting a very dangerous precedent for boards and just diminishes the site further from it's roots.

+1 on this. Ive made plenty of posts in PC that it would suit me never to see the light of day again, but such is life. Those that forget their history and all that.

BTW, any chance you could stick Grammar Nazism in that charter? It was a feckin' scourge in the Café.

weisses

CabanSail wrote: »

Hence the end to light touch moderation and the relaunched forum.

Perma banning would have done the trick, specially considering it was because of the muppetry only displayed by some.

Totally nuking the forum and burying the way it was moderated is OTT.

But its your decision, I don't agree with it, but I respect it.

CabanSail

We are working on restoring some of the content. That is still a work in progress.

Toots

CabanSail wrote: »

We are working on restoring some of the content. That is still a work in progress.

Just to add to that, it may not be clear exactly how much work has gone into that. In order to have the forum re-opened in such a short time, the Cafe Mods, Cmods and Admins put in an absolutely massive amount of work.

If each individual thread had to be reviewed before the cafe was reopened, it'd still be closed now; there's just that much content to go through. As it is, the threads are hidden to regular users, so the mods can go through them in the background while the new forum is open and operational.

Dyr

Toots wrote: »

Just to add to that, it may not be clear exactly how much work has gone into that. In order to have the forum re-opened in such a short time, the Cafe Mods, Cmods and Admins put in an absolutely massive amount of work.

By all means make it clear so.


So with light touch moderation going the way of the dodo is selective moderation equally imperiled?

Or is that still sacrosanct?

K-9

Bambi wrote: »

By all means make it clear so.


So with light touch moderation going the way of the dodo is selective moderation equally imperiled?

Or is that still sacrosanct?

The list of posters who get the most cards and bans isn't very err selective!

Seriously, it's quite wide ranging, no discrimination there!

DEFTLEFTHAND

Hopefully it can be fully restored once the review has been completed.

It's turned into one of the best forums on the site over the past year or so.

Dyr

K-9 wrote: »

The list of posters who get the most cards and bans isn't very err selective!

Seriously, it's quite wide ranging, no discrimination there!

Yeah you keep pointing that out as if its indicative of something.

One of my last little contributions to that forum was inspired by yet another thread on the usual hysteria topic so dear to many on there. I created a mirror image of the thread just as a little experiment. One thread was locked in double time the other was allowed to run and run like Andrew Lloyd Webber had adapted it into a musical. You don't need to guess which was which.

K-9

gallag wrote: »

Haha, I just about survived the cafe with the light touch moderation, I don't think I'll bother, anyway I figure that's kinda the point? My time will be better spent finally figuring out reddit than appealing bans here, good luck with it though, some good mods in the cafe, probaly the best on boards! Thanks.

Just about survived? Didn't think you had any bothers at all in the forum but if that's the way you feel.