Replica personnel carrier

Irish Steve

OK, the idea is that we ( a group of us) want a replica 1920's vintage armoured personnel carrier (Similar to the Rolls Royce Armoured car) for some reenactment scenarios that are coming up in a while, but before we get into trying to work it out, I want to try and make sure that we will be able to use the thing without falling foul of "the system".

My thinking at the moment will be to find a donor vehicle that is about the right wheelbase (3.4 mtrs) and has a separate chassis, so something like an old Land Rover, or Japanese 4x4 or similar, or a chassis cab van, on the basis that the dimensions of the running gear, suspension etc will remain as original, and things like the brakes etc will all be standard to the donor vehicle, which should in theory make the testing side of things easier, and make it easier to get essential spares like brake hoses, pads, etc. It doesn't have to be 4 wheel drive, but I can't think immediately of a 2 wheel drive vehicle with a separate chassis that would make an acceptable donor, and the thought of trying to build a chassis from scratch, and get all the geometry right is a thought that doesn't appeal to me, as the work to do that will be massive compared to using an existing chassis. A long time ago, the larger transits were a separate chassis, but I suspect they're all long gone now, and they're all monocoque shells now.

So, what I need to find out is what the process will be.

Clearly it will have it's "old" identity, but depending on the make, the chassis number and the like may be on bodywork that will no longer be being used, and it will end up with new bodywork, possibly seats, and the like.

The original donor vehicle will have CE /EU type approval, but the updated version will be a one off, which I suspect may cause issues with working out what registration and taxation class it fits in, and how it's taxed, tested etc.

Has anyone done anything even remotely similar, and what are the things we need to watch out for to make sure that when it's finished, it can be driven legally on the roads?

Thanks

SpitfireIV

Sounds like an interesting project!!

My Spitfire project, I replaced the engine for a Toyota engine (same HP and CC) and I had fierce trouble trying to get someone who would give me a quote on it. So, it might be no harm ringing around some of the insurers and seeing how they stand regarding modified vehicles (even if it is only cosmetic).

galwaytt

...if you can, buy something that has/uses a stand-alone chassis, or chassis/cab. Think Land Rover Discovery etc.

Or if you work off a pickup, something like a Ford Transit.

Irish Steve

OK, Thanks for the responses, I can provide a bit more detail than I had, the plan at the moment is to use an Isuzu Pick up as the donor vehicle, I know them reasonably well as I've owned one for close on 13 years, the one we've been offered is a little older, and the biggest difference is that it doesn't have a turbo or intercooler to have to worry about, it's the basic 2.5 diesel lump that is almost indestructible. There's some welding to do to get rid of some chassis rust, but that will be relatively easy given that the bodywork will all be off it, and if necessary, we can remove the running gear to get even better access.

It's a chassis based machine, and the shock absorbers are chassis mounted, so unless we have to make modification to get the wheelbase right, we should be able to use all the running gear and suspension as originally supplied by Isuzu, which should make sourcing of spares a lot easier, and also make it easier to keep it legal.
The perfect solution would have had a beam front axle, buf finding something like that with a suitable chassis won't be easy, LDV sherpa or 400 crossed my mind, but finding one that's suitable won't be easy, and I can't think of other suitable vehicles that would work.

If we have to stretch it, that's relatively minor, the chassis mod is effectively plating, and a new propshaft that's longer than the original. The brake servo and master cylinder will be moving anyway, along with the pedals, so the brake pipes will all be new anyway. The clutch is hydraulic, so also easy, and the throttle cable will have to be a one off, but that's not exactly rocket science.
Electrics will be a rewire, but given there will not be a lot of the original electics, no windscreen so no wipers or screen wash, I don't anticipate too many issues there. We don't know what we'll be doing for lights yet, my anticipation is that there will be 2 sets, one for legal road use, probably based on a trailer board, and a "show" set that will only be seen for "events" etc. we may be able to make road legal headlights that also are appropriate, it will depend on the size of the originals, and if we can get modern inserts that will carry dip capable lamps in them. If we can't then they will have to be removable lamps with appropriate lenses.

So, now we know the donor vehicle, we'll be also talking to insurers to get some ideas of what's involved in keeping it legal, as well as making sure we know what the road tax implications will be.


Stage 1 is to remove the redundant bodywork, sort out any repair issues, and then work out what we're going to do to replicate the appropriate bodywork and skinning to suit the style of the original Crossley Tender vehicle. We won't be able to do an exact copy, as there are all sorts of complications with the suspension, wheel sizes and brakes that would cause a lot of problems with replication, the old wheels on the back were spoked, about 24 inch diameter, with 2 tyres mounted on the one rim, and doing that now would be horrifically expensive, the rims would be one off, and the tyres are a huge price, as would a steel on steel transmission brake. The original had no shock absorbers, which would be problematic with modern testing requirements.

So, that's the starting point, the donor vehicle is decided, now I guess we'll get it into a temporary home, so it's under cover and can be stripped, check the chassis and carry out any patching and other repairs, then work out the design of the "new" bodywork. Hopefully, we will be able to get it ready for use before next year's events, that's the hope, but a lot will depend on the issues we encounter along the way, and what problems we have keeping on the right side of all the legal requirements.

gctest50

This sort of one ?

Irish Steve

That's a possible, though I think the rest of the guys are thinking more along the lines of this one
A lot will depend on the way the chassis turns out after we strip it, there will have to be some compromises to retain the modern structure, which we'll need to remain road legal