Help needed re: Fierce 5, the deadlift, and a tight lower back.

talkto

Hey,

I've been doing Fierce 5 for two months and have been enjoying it.

However, I have Anterior Pelvic Tilt, which suggests I have (amongst other issues) a tight lower back. The Romanian Deadlift is primarily a hamstring exercise, but surely it is also working my lower back and therefore making it even tighter?

The designer of Fierce 5 says the RDL can be replaced.... but with a regular Deadlift... which would still make my lower back even tighter. To quote him:

If you're going to stop doing the Romanian Deadlift, you must also stop doing the Front Squat, and replace both of these with a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.

How do I stop making my lower back even tighter than it already is, without doing damage to the overall Fierce 5 routine?


source: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

COH

I think you might be looking at this from the wrong end - anterior pelvic tilt isn't something that just exists in isolation. If the pelvis is tilted there is more than likely something causing the tilt and that is what to look for.

A 'tight' back is usually an over-worked back... suggesting (among other things) that the things that are supposed to work in unison to stabilize it aren't picking up their share of the load. Think abs, obliques, hips, glutes, diaphragm, hamstrings etc. You may not understand what good posture is?

For what its worth you want stability in the lumbar region, so being tight isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Anyway - learn what neutral spine is and how it should be applied to movement, learn how to breathe correctly with the pelvic floor and diaphragm facing each other and how to maintain these things as you brace (darkside have some very cool stuff on 90/90 breathing etc) and then how to put these things together in a basic hip hinge. Learn how to use the lats to stabilise the upper back and how creating stability from above will lead to protection below. Then you can load the pattern

Limit the ROM of the exercise if you need to, once you have put these things together and of things still don't feel right then start at the bottom and work your way up... see if your ankle mobility is causing you to lose position through the movement, are you generating torque through the ground, all the way up to your thoracic mobility, if there are any limitations from above causing the RDL to break down?

Without seeing you in action its really impossible to tell. I'd suggest getting someone to look at your technique - it might just suck and any good coach should be able to get you performing the movement pretty easily.

Don't take that personally by the way, 99% of people I coach have sh*t hinge mechanics on day 1. The RDL definitely should include the hamstrings, but definitely not in isolation. 100% do not swap it for conventional deadlifts - adding extra ROM will only exacerbate whatever the problem is.


All the best!

talkto

Hey,

Thanks for all that information, I appreciate it.

I definitely have anterior pelvic tilt. I've noticed it for years, long before I began working out. I have tight hip flexors and a weak core which are contributing to it. Due to knee problems I attended multiple physios over the years who examined my posture and movement and I wear custom-made orthotic insoles which have sorted my knee.

The designer of the F5 routine is very clear that you should not swap out any exercise that he has listed as it will affect the entire routine. But I don't want to continue doing an exercise (e.g. the RDL) that will make my posture even worse.

Hanley

talkto wrote: »

Hey,

Thanks for all that information, I appreciate it.

I definitely have anterior pelvic tilt. I've noticed it for years, long before I began working out. I have tight hip flexors and a weak core which are contributing to it. Due to knee problems I attended multiple physios over the years who examined my posture and movement and I wear custom-made orthotic insoles which have sorted my knee.

The designer of the F5 routine is very clear that you should not swap out any exercise that he has listed as it will affect the entire routine. But I don't want to continue doing an exercise (e.g. the RDL) that will make my posture even worse.

It says you can swap RDL to leg curls...?

talkto

Hanley wrote: »

It says you can swap RDL to leg curls...?

The options are:

Option 1: RDL & Front Squat
Option 2: DL & Leg Curls

The program as written stipulates that you must do deadlifts either way.

Mellor

You should probably just focus on fixing your APT directly. Do the fierce5 variation that you feel is best for you. But it's not going to fix APT on its self. It might not negatively affect it either, but why just hope to cruise by when you can tackle it directly.