Tenant moving Out

YFlyer

Hi there

A girl moved into the house this month on the 13th.

She text me lastnight that she is moving out as she has issues of bringing her bike up and down the stairs every day. WE live in duplex on the 1st and 2nd floor.

She asked me this morning about getting part of the rent back as she is only here for half the time. I replied that the notice is very short and that I would have to work out the bills first.

Would you subtract the bills plus 17 days that she was in the house from the months rent and give her back the remainder or just keep the whole months rent?

Deco99

YFlyer wrote: »

Hi there

A girl moved into the house this month on the 13th.

She text me lastnight that she is moving out as she has issues of bringing her bike up and down the stairs every day. WE live in duplex on the 1st and 2nd floor.

She asked me this morning about getting part of the rent back as she is only here for half the time. I replied that the notice is very short and that I would have to work out the bills first.

Would you subtract the bills plus 17 days that she was in the house from the months rent and give her back the remainder or just keep the whole months rent?

It wouldn't be unreasonable to keep whole months rent. It'd be deposit and rest of lease she should be concerned about. Its not like you can rent out the room for the other 13 days. If you are owner occupier I suppose its up to you but if I was going to have to stump up the refund from my rent she could go swing for it

cruizer101

I wouldn't be in any rush to give her money back, at least until you have someone else moved in

lollsangel

No I wouldn't be giving her back any rent. Unless you find another tenant I wouldn't be returning the deposit she should be giving proper notice. Is she a tenant or a licensee

Speedwell

cruizer101 wrote: »

I wouldn't be in any rush to give her money back, at least until you have someone else moved in

Under the circumstances I would help her do due diligence to find someone to take over her lease, but I would not let her off the hook until someone is found, unless there are other circumstances that warrant more lenience (such as actual, you know, reasons for needing to move). Keeping the deposit is certainly standard practice for a broken lease.

This is the silliest reason I've ever heard for breaking a lease, and the most shocking time frame... two weeks of tenancy makes you a hotel, not a landlord. Perhaps you should charge her hotel rates by the day, lol.

By the way, I'm not even a landlord, I'm a tenant... a responsible one.

YFlyer

I didn't get her to sign any lease. I'm fairly relaxed when people move in or out. The place is close to University of Limerick and gets filled up easily.

YFlyer

Speedwell wrote: »

Under the circumstances I would help her do due diligence to find someone to take over her lease, but I would not let her off the hook until someone is found, unless there are other circumstances that warrant more lenience (such as actual, you know, reasons for needing to move). Keeping the deposit is certainly standard practice for a broken lease.

This is the silliest reason I've ever heard for breaking a lease, and the most shocking time frame... two weeks of tenancy makes you a hotel, not a landlord. Perhaps you should charge her hotel rates by the day, lol.

By the way, I'm not even a landlord, I'm a tenant... a responsible one.

Yeah she was complaining about bruises on her arms and legs hauling the bike up and down the stairs

lollsangel

YFlyer wrote: »

Yeah she was complaining about bruises on her arms and legs hauling the bike up and down the stairs

I'm a tenant. I check and think before I take a property. Having to haul a bike up and down stairs is a ridiculous reason for breaking a lease.

YFlyer

Deco99 wrote: »

It wouldn't be unreasonable to keep whole months rent. It'd be deposit and rest of lease she should be concerned about. Its not like you can rent out the room for the other 13 days. If you are owner occupier I suppose its up to you but if I was going to have to stump up the refund from my rent she could go swing for it

My sister is the owner. She lives at her father's place. I'm the occupier though and attempts to keep the place in order.

Tigger

if she's a licensee (ie if you live there and rent to her) she should give a weeks notice and get back the desposit and balance

YFlyer

I have decided not to give back the difference in rent. Rent money is already gone on my sister's mortgage.

Will leave her off the gas and ESB bills. Its 17 days of sharing with three others. I'll foot that.

Mrs OBumble

Deco99 wrote: »

Its not like you can rent out the room for the other 13 days.

The way demand is in many areas now, there should be little difficulty renting the room almost immediately. You might have a few days between tenants, but not 13.

Me, I'd charge her just for the days she was there. If she wants to leave, then getting her out ASAP would be my priority.

YFlyer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The way demand is in many areas now, there should be little difficulty renting the room almost immediately. You might have a few days between tenants, but not 13.

Me, I'd charge her just for the days she was there. If she wants to leave, then getting her out ASAP would be my priority.

She gave me the notice lastnight by text that she is leaving today. She said she found another apartment on Wednesday and got the keys yesterday.

Extremely short notice by her.

4ensic15

That tenant just abused you. She had no intention of staying and just took it until another rental became available.

K.Flyer

Arrange the refund for after she has moved out to give you time to double check the room for any damage. Then give her back what you feel is appropriate.
Inform the next person that the rent is xxx euro per calender month or part thereof, to avoid any similar issues in the future.

YFlyer

4ensic15 wrote: »

That tenant just abused you. She had no intention of staying and just took it until another rental became available.

She did say to me two weeks ago that she prefer to live on her own that with others.

Corca Baiscinn

I think posters are being somewhat hard on the tenant. OP has said it wont be difficult to replace her so he wont be out of pocket to any great extent. Of course the tenant should have thought through how she was going to manage the bike but given the difficulty of securing accommodation, it's not unusual to panic and take what's on offer without taking full account of any negatives. Finding secure bike storage is a major problem for tenants who are cyclists and I wonder if the posters who think tenant is "silly" or "abusing" OP are female and have ever hauled a bike up and down stairs on a regular basis. Talk of withholding deposit if an,y is vindictive in the scenario that OP says he wont have difficulty getting a replacement tenant. Cut the tenant a little slack posters, we've all been young and made foolish decisions

athtrasna

OP is there any bike storage facility on site. I live in a first and second floor duplex but we have bike sheds behind each block.

YFlyer

athtrasna wrote: »

OP is there any bike storage facility on site. I live in a first and second floor duplex but we have bike sheds behind each block.

Unfortunately there isn't. Should be, considering the majority of landlords pay €1000 to management for upkeep of the area.

YFlyer

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I think posters are being somewhat hard on the tenant. OP has said it wont be difficult to replace her so he wont be out of pocket to any great extent. Of course the tenant should have thought through how she was going to manage the bike but given the difficulty of securing accommodation, it's not unusual to panic and take what's on offer without taking full account of any negatives. Finding secure bike storage is a major problem for tenants who are cyclists and I wonder if the posters who think tenant is "silly" or "abusing" OP are female and have ever hauled a bike up and down stairs on a regular basis. Talk of withholding deposit if an,y is vindictive in the scenario that OP says he wont have difficulty getting a replacement tenant. Cut the tenant a little slack posters, we've all been young and made foolish decisions

Yes I understand the tenant issue with the bike. The place is owned by the sister and the rent money from her plus two other housemates would have been taken from my sister's bank account as part of her (April) monthly mortgage.

Paying back the tenant would have to come out of my pocket. It be approximately €110 or so.

I don't want to be like the landlord from hell Ollie Haskett

Speedwell

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

...I wonder if the posters who think tenant is "silly" or "abusing" OP are female and have ever hauled a bike up and down stairs on a regular basis....

Yes.

lollsangel

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I think posters are being somewhat hard on the tenant. OP has said it wont be difficult to replace her so he wont be out of pocket to any great extent. Of course the tenant should have thought through how she was going to manage the bike but given the difficulty of securing accommodation, it's not unusual to panic and take what's on offer without taking full account of any negatives. Finding secure bike storage is a major problem for tenants who are cyclists and I wonder if the posters who think tenant is "silly" or "abusing" OP are female and have ever hauled a bike up and down stairs on a regular basis. Talk of withholding deposit if an,y is vindictive in the scenario that OP says he wont have difficulty getting a replacement tenant. Cut the tenant a little slack posters, we've all been young and made foolish decisions

Yes I'm female. And I have always thought through before I've rented a place.

The_Conductor

Lets look at this pragmatically- the 'tenant' is not in fact a tenant- rather a licensee under the current arrangement- as the OP is living in the property and acting as an agent on behalf of his sister. The fact that there was no lease signed- supports this hypothesis. Under this assumption- the onus is only on either the OP or the 'tenant' to give 'reasonable notice' to the other party.

The 'tenant' obviously did not think through the mechanics of hauling her bicycle up and down the stairs- shes still a teenager- its far from unusual for kids to think these things through properly........

The fact that the 'rent' has gone on the OP's sister mortgage- is neither here nor there- and is not a justification for keeping the kids rent.

In a case like this- as the girl in question is undoubtedbly *not* a tenant- but rather a licensee-

The OP is opening themselves to potential trouble by witholding either a portion of the rent- or indeed, the deposit.

I would work out how many days she was there (17 or whatever)- the fact that she was only there half days etc- is irrelevant.

I would work out a reasonable and fair billshare portion for her.

I would refund the rest of her rent in full, along with her deposit- less a reasonable and fair share for her portion of the bills. I would not try to justify not charging her a billshare- in lieu of keeping her rent etc- be upfront- be fair- and document it all.

Its a student- she has access to a cohort of other students and indeed, the SU keep a register of properties their members have lived in- along with comments on it. If the OP intends to let the room to a student from UL again- they need to try and end this as amiably as possible.

The fact that the OP is the sibling of the owner- throws a curveball into the equation- and removes many of the rights any prospective housemates might have. The OP needs to be cognisant of this- and at all times do his or her best to manage the property and indeed the situation- for the benefit of his sister- which includes damage control in situations like this.

The OP has not indicated whether, or not, the girl is unhappy with the proposed proportional return of funds- however, its best to make a working assumption that she is unhappy- and try to mitigate this- as the OP will be seeking housemates from the same pool of prospective individuals going forwards.

The fact that the OP has put the girls 'rent' towards their sister's mortgage- is wholly irrelevant- they did not do due diligence on their housemate when she moved in- it should have been obvious on both their parts that the proposed situation was untenable- and if the girl is actually covered in bruises from endeavouring to bring her bike up and down the stairs- she did make a reasonable attempt to make it work- but it hasn't done so.

Give her the money back- its a learning experience, and make sure the next person does not cycle to college.

Speedwell

Oh, please, the bicycle excuse is probably not the real reason. Covered in bruises? I have to laugh. If she is a healthy young person who actually uses that bicycle for transportation, she is not made of spun sugar. I don't know what the real reason is (moved in with her boyfriend/back home/a sorority/a cult? got an offer for a better place to rent/roommate/dorm? can't have a pet? something is wrong with the OP's home that can't be fixed? the OP isn't telling us what the girl actually said?). I'm thinking of the reasons why college kids moved when I was in college... the only excuse that would have been accepted for moving out the same day would be that something went horribly wrong with the rooms or the roommates so that the place was literally unlivable.

Anyway, "reasonable notice" and "reasonable effort to make it work" cannot possibly mean "two weeks of renting and giving notice the day before move-out in a text message", and I would like to see anyone convincingly argue differently. No amount of bona fide due diligence is going to turn up issues with a young person who has never rented before. There is no way the OP could have foreseen this, unless she has a history of doing this and a reference check would have turned it up. Most college kids aren't flaky. The girl, on the other hand, knew she was going to have to bring her cycle to school and store it somewhere when she looked for and accepted the room.

Under the circumstances, with the OP relying on the girl's rent to meet his own expenses, it's more than fair of him to cover her utilities and keep the rent she paid in lieu of two weeks (reasonable) notice. Not having some sort of written agreement is really the problem here.

I would be inclined not to refund any rent as you put in the work to find a new person to live there and now have to do it all over again as she decided to move out after being there two weeks and is giving you very short notice.

At the very least I would wait until I had someone else to take her place and if they have started paying rent in the period still coverd by this girls rent you could give her a little back then, though that's more effort also.

Earlier this year a housemate of mine moved out at very short notice, it was over half a month before a new person moved in and when the bills came I charged the person who moved out for the half months gas and ESB even though they were not living there or paying rent as they annoyed me with moving out so fast (im not the LL, or looking after the place just a housemate that usually looks after the bills which are in the LLs name). I felt totally justified in doing the above and I would see the op's situation as similarish. I didn't actually tell their person I was changing them for time they weren't there btw, just texted them a share of the bills and they sent me the money no questions asked.

Thinking about it again Id definitely keep the rent and would be even inclined to keep money from the deposit to cover the portion of her share of the bills for her time in the house.

Maireadio

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I think posters are being somewhat hard on the tenant. OP has said it wont be difficult to replace her so he wont be out of pocket to any great extent. Of course the tenant should have thought through how she was going to manage the bike but given the difficulty of securing accommodation, it's not unusual to panic and take what's on offer without taking full account of any negatives. Finding secure bike storage is a major problem for tenants who are cyclists and I wonder if the posters who think tenant is "silly" or "abusing" OP are female and have ever hauled a bike up and down stairs on a regular basis. Talk of withholding deposit if an,y is vindictive in the scenario that OP says he wont have difficulty getting a replacement tenant. Cut the tenant a little slack posters, we've all been young and made foolish decisions

Agreed. She made a mistake! Definitely withholding any deposit is just pure badness.

Maireadio

YFlyer wrote: »

Yes I understand the tenant issue with the bike. The place is owned by the sister and the rent money from her plus two other housemates would have been taken from my sister's bank account as part of her (April) monthly mortgage.

Paying back the tenant would have to come out of my pocket. It be approximately €110 or so.

But if the room is filled immediately, can't your sister just refund you when she gets the rent, as there'll be an overlap?

Mrs OBumble

YFlyer wrote: »

She gave me the notice lastnight by text that she is leaving today. She said she found another apartment on Wednesday and got the keys yesterday.

Extremely short notice by her.

In that case I'd say the bicycle is just a polite excuse.

There must be something else wrong with the house or with you for her to need to get out that urgently.

Charge her for the days she was there, and sort the problem out before getting a replacement.

The_Conductor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In that case I'd say the bicycle is just a polite excuse.

Well- the OP did state that she was covered in bruises from the bicycle- I'd be more inclined to give her the benefit of doubt on this one.........

She handled the situation badly- but so too did the OP. He/she knew the person had a bike- and thought it was fine to traipse up and down the stairs with it- when regardless of damage to the walls etc- the girl simply wasn't up to it.

It was a bad idea to begin with- however, no side is innocent here.

Also- I would advise the OP to get off their high horse about the 'rent' having been used to pay the mortgage. The rent is income like any other income- and fully taxable at the OP's sister's marginal rate of tax. It is not the case that it can simply be offset against the mortgage- and if this is what they're doing- its extremely poor tax planning.

The girl should have given more notice yes- however, the OP shouldn't have bitten off her hand to take her money in the first instance..........

I don't think there is an innocent party in all this- I think it should be a learning opportunity all round.

YFlyer

The_Conductor wrote: »

Lets look at this pragmatically- the 'tenant' is not in fact a tenant- rather a licensee under the current arrangement- as the OP is living in the property and acting as an agent on behalf of his sister. The fact that there was no lease signed- supports this hypothesis. Under this assumption- the onus is only on either the OP or the 'tenant' to give 'reasonable notice' to the other party.

The 'tenant' obviously did not think through the mechanics of hauling her bicycle up and down the stairs- shes still a teenager- its far from unusual for kids to think these things through properly........

The fact that the 'rent' has gone on the OP's sister mortgage- is neither here nor there- and is not a justification for keeping the kids rent.

In a case like this- as the girl in question is undoubtedbly *not* a tenant- but rather a licensee-

The OP is opening themselves to potential trouble by witholding either a portion of the rent- or indeed, the deposit.

I would work out how many days she was there (17 or whatever)- the fact that she was only there half days etc- is irrelevant.

I would work out a reasonable and fair billshare portion for her.

I would refund the rest of her rent in full, along with her deposit- less a reasonable and fair share for her portion of the bills. I would not try to justify not charging her a billshare- in lieu of keeping her rent etc- be upfront- be fair- and document it all.

Its a student- she has access to a cohort of other students and indeed, the SU keep a register of properties their members have lived in- along with comments on it. If the OP intends to let the room to a student from UL again- they need to try and end this as amiably as possible.

The fact that the OP is the sibling of the owner- throws a curveball into the equation- and removes many of the rights any prospective housemates might have. The OP needs to be cognisant of this- and at all times do his or her best to manage the property and indeed the situation- for the benefit of his sister- which includes damage control in situations like this.

The OP has not indicated whether, or not, the girl is unhappy with the proposed proportional return of funds- however, its best to make a working assumption that she is unhappy- and try to mitigate this- as the OP will be seeking housemates from the same pool of prospective individuals going forwards.

The fact that the OP has put the girls 'rent' towards their sister's mortgage- is wholly irrelevant- they did not do due diligence on their housemate when she moved in- it should have been obvious on both their parts that the proposed situation was untenable- and if the girl is actually covered in bruises from endeavouring to bring her bike up and down the stairs- she did make a reasonable attempt to make it work- but it hasn't done so.

Give her the money back- its a learning experience, and make sure the next person does not cycle to college.

She is in her mid to late 20s. Started work on Castletroy. Bought the bike a week after moving in.

Eimee90

Feel really sorry for the girl, Op, if you don't refund her. We've all been there as students before. I think you should take the hit and refund her the balance, if you fill the room immediately, there shouldn't be a problem anyway.