UFH no go areas

murphaph

Yeah I found a document (in German only, sorry) which attempts to decipher the DIN 18 353 and DIN 18 560 standards (these are also available as EN standards if you can find them from the BSI somewhere) and spell out in layman's terms when and where to use expansion joints.

They say that if there are different zones (ie, each with their own thermostats) then there should definitely be expansion joint(s) included. They say if there are multiple loops, but all under the same heating zone and the flow temps will be the same in the loops, then you may leave the expansion joints out. In our house we have examples of both-our kitchen has 3 loops with no expansion joint between them. Our dining area/lounge is a continuation of the kitchen (all open plan) and that is a different heating zone (pointless if you ask me but anyway) so there is an expansion joint there. We have additional expansion joints simply because of the shape of the space (large L shape).

They also say that anything over an 8m side length would want to have an expansion joint fitted.

A simple rectangle 8 x 5 with the same flow temps and a single heating zone would be according to my reading that document safe enough to leave out the expansion joint.

If in any doubt, fit the expansion joint IMO. I reckon there must be loads of cracked screed installations knocking around but most are not tiled so the owners don't realise.

http://schubert-fussboeden.de/cms/images/stories/downloads/5_Fugen_bei_Estrichen.pdf

BarneyMc

Well that's the UFH installed and overall fairly happy. I've attached a few photos however showing some tears in the polythene. The clips were too long for the 25mm insulation upstairs and they had to be put in sideways. Also they were for a gun and not meant to be pushed in by hand - wonderful!

Anyway as always I'll be busy this weekend to fix up. I suppose a bit of tape around these areas would be the best solution? I was thinking of expanding foam/silicon/adhesive but it might not stick too well if walked over or the polythene moves?

The patch of insulation that lifted up with the tension in the pipes - I'll just stick it to the slab at the weekend and put a few bricks on so they'll be ok for the screed next week.

STRESS!

Water John

Thanks for the pics.
The black clips are 60mm I think and for a gun.
There are 50 and 40 mm red ones for hand push. That's no good to you, but the installer could use them on his next job. They are needed upstairs. The 40 is rare.

murphaph

I wouldn't fill those voids with anything. The screed will make its way into them and seal them up forever and the screed won't compress under foot like expanding foam or anything else you might put in there.

hexosan

BarneyMc wrote: »

Well that's the UFH installed and overall fairly happy. I've attached a few photos however showing some tears in the polythene. The clips were too long for the 25mm insulation upstairs and they had to be put in sideways. Also they were for a gun and not meant to be pushed in by hand - wonderful!

Anyway as always I'll be busy this weekend to fix up. I suppose a bit of tape around these areas would be the best solution? I was thinking of expanding foam/silicon/adhesive but it might not stick too well if walked over or the polythene moves?

The patch of insulation that lifted up with the tension in the pipes - I'll just stick it to the slab at the weekend and put a few bricks on so they'll be ok for the screed next week.

STRESS!

You've zero to worry about from them pics barney

BarneyMc

murphaph wrote: »

I wouldn't fill those voids with anything. The screed will make its way into them and seal them up forever and the screed won't compress under foot like expanding foam or anything else you might put in there.

But will the liquid screed not run in and get under the polythene, etc.?

hexosan

BarneyMc wrote: »

But will the liquid screed not run in and get under the polythene, etc.?

Not on a small punch hole like that. Your been the usual over anal self builder. We all have them moments.

BarneyMc

hexosan wrote: »

Not on a small punch hole like that. Your been the usual over anal self builder. We all have them moments.

Yes, I bet those installers thought the same about me heading back up the road to Derry!

Here's some 'self-build porn' for you Hex!

rampantbunny

BarneyMc wrote: »

Yes, I bet those installers thought the same about me heading back up the road to Derry!

Here's some 'self-build porn' for you Hex!

You mind me asking Barney, what the circular patch in the plaster is to the left of your window?

BarneyMc

rampantbunny wrote: »

BarneyMc wrote: »

Yes, I bet those installers thought the same about me heading back up the road to Derry!

Here's some 'self-build porn' for you Hex!

You mind me asking Barney, what the circular patch in the plaster is to the left of your window?

I think it's a sun spot and not on the actual wall. There seems to be a few along the wall/floor junction. Or it could be the last of my spirit leaving me!!

rampantbunny

BarneyMc wrote: »

I think it's a sun spot and not on the actual wall. There seems to be a few along the wall/floor junction. Or it could be the last of my spirit leaving me!!

Thought it was something deliberate plastered in. Maybe like pieces of a cowboy tradesman..sorry, horrible thought.