Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Antwerp

nop98 wrote: »

Hello Antwerp - your responses have made it through at the third time of asking, welcome onboard!

You have a good couple of races ahead - are you doing all race series events? Our plans cater for 2 races (FD10 and DCHM), and I would encourage one more 10k/5M race before battening down the hatches, and focus on the marathon training (note to self: write post about running races during the training cycle).

You seem to be in a good routine already. Keep increasing your weekly mileage, slowly, and definitely 4 times a week. All miles will stand to you when we start our programs.

Re plan: did you have a look at the plans we are following? See the first post. HHN1 looks a little light for you - and the boards maybe a little daunting (but you have 6 weeks to build towards it).

Hi Nop98,
Sorry for the delay in replying having a busy few days. Thanks for your advice I will review both plans over the next few days before deciding on which suits better.
Also I'm doing all Race Series except Fingal 10km will replace this with DLRBay 10 km (did I say KM should have converted to miles -lol) which is Bank Holiday in August. Should I incorporate a few more races do you think?
Thanks a mill

The Black Oil

I prefer kms for day to day stuff like driving. My Garmin Forerunner 305 says miles on its screen, but kms when I hook it up to GarminConnect.

aquinn wrote: »

Realise that it will take over.
Boozy nights be gone.
Gel testing, ugh.
Racing.
S8it runs that can't outweigh other runs.
Having no one that will listen to you rattle off how many miles you ran that week.
People asking what are you running away from.
Some examples but the list is endless.
Oh and welts when you forgot to put on bodyglide and realise in the shower.
Oh and foam rolling and massages for knots.
Being told to HTFU, don't Google that on work computer.
Endless.

I don't drink much in general, so that's fine. I've a cream thing left over from a cycling trip. Presume it's fine for other sports. I've not told many people about the marathon yet. I've a few of these gels from cycling too. That the kind of thing you're on about? Do sports shops have foam rollers?

aquinn

The Black Oil wrote: »

I prefer kms for day to day stuff like driving. My Garmin Forerunner 305 says miles on its screen, but kms when I hook it up to GarminConnect.



I don't drink much in general, so that's fine. I've a cream thing left over from a cycling trip. Presume it's fine for other sports. I've not told many people about the marathon yet. I've a few of these gels from cycling too. That the kind of thing you're on about? Do sports shops have foam rollers?

If you Google a grid foam roller, this special torture device is mostly recommended. They have them in TK Maxx, Elverys, Amazon.

Kennyg71

aquinn wrote: »

If you Google a grid foam roller, this special torture device is mostly recommended. They have them in TK Maxx, Elverys, Amazon.

Just using one now A, and it is s special kind of torture, haven't used in
over a month and pain:eek:

aquinn

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Just using one now A, and it is s special kind of torture, haven't used in
over a month and pain:eek:

Thanks G. You know how I relish stories like this. Thanks.

spaceylou

aquinn wrote: »

If you Google a grid foam roller, this special torture device is mostly recommended. They have them in TK Maxx, Elverys, Amazon.

Currently have a version of these torture devices in Lidl for anyone considering the investment - 9.99

And for anyone as addicted to Meridian Peanut Butter, the large tubs are in Aldi for 3.99

Gillo

Those ISO gels are meant to be great as you don't have to take as much water with them, they basically have a higher water content. And yes what you use for cycling works for running, at the end of the day you need carbs for both.

Re, foam rollers TK Maxx often have them in stock, they hurt but work wonders.

I've just seen that there is not only a new medal but a different route for this year. I'm posting from a phone and can't copy the post from Facebook, but if you follow SSE Airtricity Dublin Marathon on Facebook they had a post a few hours ago.

Finally for anyone running a good while. I'm away for a few days with a conference, packing my case this morning is a hard choice between runners and a suit! Unfortunately on this case the suit had to win

MonkstownHoop

Gillo wrote: »

Those ISO gels are meant to be great as you don't have to take as much water with them, they basically have a higher water content. And yes what you use for cycling works for running, at the end of the day you need carbs for both.

Re, foam rollers TK Maxx often have them in stock, they hurt but work wonders.

I've just seen that there is not only a new medal but a different route for this year. I'm posting from a phone and can't copy the post from Facebook, but if you follow SSE Airtricity Dublin Marathon on Facebook they had a post a few hours ago.

Finally for anyone running a good while. I'm away for a few days with a conference, packing my case this morning is a hard choice between runners and a suit! Unfortunately on this case the suit had to win

Stuff the suit into the runners

jameshayes

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I started running last November (no previous background in any sport/physical activity) - running once per week and then moved onto twice a week after christmas then 3 times a week shortly after. I run parkruns regularly and a few 10k's (but my 10k's were not competitive so I cant use those as times 59mins, 58mins) My 5k progression is:
27.19 (Nov)
26.34 (Dec)
25.27 (Jan)
24.35 (Mar)
23.54 (Apr)

I'm doing the 5 mile in terenure this week and I'm aiming for a 40.30-41.30

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No - I can carry on

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Going the gym regularly for about a year but not really pushing myself/following a programme. About to join a new gym that will be a bit more hard work - I plan on doing this for 3 months. I cycle to work daily (6km's each way)

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Under 4 hours would be a dream, but more realistically I'd guess I'm aiming for a 4.20

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I'm planning on the myasics one. I run on a tuesday with work which is normally speed based (sprints, hill sprints, tempos, fartlek etc) and on a Thursday I try to do an 8k at lunch, saturday is then set up for the long run. I was thinking on 3 runs per week because I will be cross training too - but if I was given a recommendation to slow down on the cross training I would. I plan to cut back on the gym after 3 months and then maybe move up the weekly runs to 4.

Why are you running this marathon?
No idea to be honest, a stupid idea that I better do one before I'm too old (I'm 31 - 32 at the time of DCM). I have always wanted to do one - I think this is the time to do it.

chrislad

Ah the foam roller. How I missed thee! First session last night, as I felt a small bit of tightness (it starts.....) in my right leg.

kittyclaws

chrislad wrote: »

Ah the foam roller. How I missed thee! First session last night, as I felt a small bit of tightness (it starts.....) in my right leg.

I suffer something awful with my calves - but even 5 minutes of foam rolling them after a run really helps.
It really is a form of torture

chrislad

kittyclaws wrote: »

I suffer something awful with my calves - but even 5 minutes of foam rolling them after a run really helps.
It really is a form of torture

I had similar issues last year. I got seen by a physio who got me orthothics and prescribed a set of stretches. I also got a pair of compression sleeves. I get the odd niggle now and again, but never as bad as I had last year. I have high arches, which was the root cause, apparently. She advised not to go for shoes that cater to those. She said a pair of neutral runners with the orthothics would be best.

chrislad

INSPIRATION!!!

Firedance

To stretch or not to stretch, that is the question...


We've touched on this a couple of times in the thread so it’s a good time for a more comprehensive post on stretching. Marathon training puts our bodies through new stresses and we want to help alleviate those as much as possible along the way to make the journey smoother.


There are multiple reports out there on the internet, some say stretching makes no difference, others say it's very beneficial. It's worth trying though, especially the AIS and Myrtl (below) as they are widely used by sports therapists around the world.


The main key point when stretching is that it should not be done on cold muscles, always warm up with a couple of on the spot jogs/skips or a walk first.

There are two types of stretching, static and dynamic


A general rule is no static stretching before a run, use dynamic moves that will slowly warm your muscles, you can then use gentle static stretches post run. (my PT recommends holding no longer than 8 seconds & repeat 3 times). If you take only one thing from here, let it be this rule.

This is a good article: here

Assisted Isolated Stretching
or AIS, was introduced to us by our 2014 novices mentor Ososlo, its gentle but effective. This can be done before every run.
http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/active-isolated-stretching-exercises


Myrtl
A popular routine for runners that improves your range of motion and adds agility. It's enough to do this once a week, twice at most and only after your short easy runs. Building a routine like this into your week will help prevent injuries.
http://www.runnersworld.com/training-video/the-myrtl-routine

Pilates & Yoga
Both are very good and have different benefits, pilates concentrates on building core strength which is very important in running believe it or not. Yoga can improve flexibility and also be used to build general strength without the use of weights. There are lots of youtube videos out there on both but personally, I would recommend you attend classes to get proper instruction so that you're aware what muscles you should be engaging in each pose, once you've been guided by an expert its fine to practice at home.


Another great source of information is James Dunne http://www.kinetic-revolution.com/ there are lots of videos (free!) available on foam rolling, stretches and even a 30 day challenge which gets mixed reviews on here but it's worth a look for sure.


Whatever you decide on, just like running, consistency is key! Find a routine that fits into your schedule and then stick with it throughout your training plan. It does not need to be fancy, in fact, the shorter and more efficient the better as it will ensure you stick with it. If you start now you'll have built the habit by the time it comes to start the plan.


Foam Rolling
Here's a good article explaining what foam rolling is
http://breakingmuscle.com/mobility-recovery/what-is-a-foam-roller-how-do-i-use-it-and-why-does-it-hurt


James Dunne (kinetic revolution above) also has some great videos on how to foam roll. The most common areas will be:
Calves: tight calves are very common in runners, usually caused by an issue elsewhere, foam rolling post run will help loosen them out
Glutes
Hamstrings
Quads


As has been mentioned you can pick up a decent Foam Roller (the grid one's are particularly good) in TK Maxx for a reasonable price.

What about physio?
If you don't already have a good Physio or Physical Therapist (they're slightly different) on speed dial, now's the time to do some research! Try and find one who specialises in running or is recommended to you by a fellow runner. You don't need to be injured to attend a physio, lots of runners regularly get a sports massage to keep the body loose and get the knots worked out by a professional and then use their foam roller in between visits. This works particularly well as the mileage increases in marathon training.

The Muppet

chrislad wrote: »

INSPIRATION!!!

Ooh I'd really like one of those.

chrislad

The Muppet wrote: »

Ooh I'd really like one of those.

Yours for the low, low price of 800 miles of training!!!

spaceylou

Firedance wrote: »

To stretch or not to stretch, that is the question...

Thanks a million for the super informative post AM and on that note, does anyone know is it possible to bookmark a particular post?

Firedance

spaceylou wrote: »

Thanks a million for the super informative post AM and on that note, does anyone know is it possible to bookmark a particular post?

if you click on the post number on the right hand corner (my post is #318 for eg) it opens the post in a separate tab, you could probably save that in your browser then

The Muppet

chrislad wrote: »

Yours for the low, low price of 800 miles of training!!!

Not a bother, I'll be having one once I stay injury free.

nop98

Firedance wrote: »

To stretch or not to stretch, that is the question...


We've touched on this a couple of times in the thread so it’s a good time for a more comprehensive post on stretching. Marathon training puts our bodies through new stresses and we want to help alleviate those as much as possible along the way to make the journey smoother.

Thank you Firedance, excellent post and summary. I am at best a perfunctory stretcher, so I am glad we can benefit from your wisdom.

To me, what resonates most, is the "find the routine that works for you" - and: "do it now".

During last year, I knew I had to step it up, so I followed Dubgal's advice: start every run (every run) with tiny silly little baby steps. Just to warm up, nothing else - just a few hundred meters. It is so slow, that I am almost walking in a running cadence. I am sure it looks ridiculous but I don't care. After any run, I would do static stretching as described, and foam-rolling a couple of times a week (particularly when the mileage was highest). This seemed to have worked for me, but I doubt it is textbook. So please, everyone, read Firedance's advice and experiment with it over the coming weeks!

spaceylou wrote: »

Thanks a million for the super informative post AM and on that note, does anyone know is it possible to bookmark a particular post?

Spacylou, I'm keeping a collection of posts / resources worth bookmarking and will post it to the thread every now and again. Now is the time, I guess

nop98

jameshayes wrote: »

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I started running last November (no previous background in any sport/physical activity) - running once per week and then moved onto twice a week after christmas then 3 times a week shortly after. I run parkruns regularly and a few 10k's (but my 10k's were not competitive so I cant use those as times 59mins, 58mins) My 5k progression is:
27.19 (Nov)
26.34 (Dec)
25.27 (Jan)
24.35 (Mar)
23.54 (Apr)

I'm doing the 5 mile in terenure this week and I'm aiming for a 40.30-41.30

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No - I can carry on

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Going the gym regularly for about a year but not really pushing myself/following a programme. About to join a new gym that will be a bit more hard work - I plan on doing this for 3 months. I cycle to work daily (6km's each way)

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Under 4 hours would be a dream, but more realistically I'd guess I'm aiming for a 4.20

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I'm planning on the myasics one. I run on a tuesday with work which is normally speed based (sprints, hill sprints, tempos, fartlek etc) and on a Thursday I try to do an 8k at lunch, saturday is then set up for the long run. I was thinking on 3 runs per week because I will be cross training too - but if I was given a recommendation to slow down on the cross training I would. I plan to cut back on the gym after 3 months and then maybe move up the weekly runs to 4.

Why are you running this marathon?
No idea to be honest, a stupid idea that I better do one before I'm too old (I'm 31 - 32 at the time of DCM). I have always wanted to do one - I think this is the time to do it.

Hey jameshayes, and welcome to the thread.

First of all, 32 is definitely not too old for your first marathon. Far from it! I don't think I had even considered running even 5k back when I was 32.

Second point - and I think you can see this coming in order to be successful, you'll need to increase the amount of times you run a week. Cross-training is excellent as recovery/easy workout - and to prevent staleness, but is no substitute for running.

If you look at the HHN1 program, which I consider the minimum for successful marathon prep, you would run Tue, Wed, and Thu throughout the week, with a weekend long run and ideally a recovery run after. That's 4-5 times - and that assumes having ran regularly for close to a year.

If I may ask: why consider the intensive 3-month gym program? As you already do a lot of cycling (at what I assume is reasonable easy intensity), I would suggest dropping (almost) all other cross-training in order to slowly, slowly, slowly increase the weekly mileage. By all accounts, you seem to have a great level of aerobic fitness, but you need miles in the legs more than anything.

As I have suggested to others, I would recommend coming on board and build up per plan (HHN1 would be my suggestion) towards the HM in September and assess your progress as you go along.

Welcome on board!

nop98

Summary of some useful links - just a first stab.

Useful Resources
Dublin Marathon Official Site|link
Strava Club for DCM 2016 Novices (chrislad)|link
Training Programs (Boards.ie and HHN1)|link
Online mileage tracker|


Useful posts in this thread
Opening Post|link
Training Paces (part 1)|link
Stretching 101 (Firedance)|link


Novice threads from previous years
2015 (Dubgal72)|2015
2014 (Ososlo)|2014
2013 (career_move)|2013
2012 (Younganne)|2012
2011 (Raycun)|2011
2010 (Rainbow Kirby)|2010
2009 (amadeus)|2009

Murph_D

Gillo wrote: »

Finally for anyone running a good while. I'm away for a few days with a conference, packing my case this morning is a hard choice between runners and a suit! Unfortunately on this case the suit had to win

Why not do both? No conference I've ever attended has been less successful due to getting a run in.

spaceylou

Thanks for the tip about booking-marking Firedance and NOP - very fancy tables - I see why you were put in charge of us all!

scotindublin

Big difference to be out there running when it is so mild!

MonkstownHoop

scotindublin wrote: »

Big difference to be out there running when it is so mild!

Done 5 miles at 3, first run since my half at wings on Sunday, was tough in that heat

Gillo

Murph_D wrote: »

Gillo wrote: »

Finally for anyone running a good while. I'm away for a few days with a conference, packing my case this morning is a hard choice between runners and a suit! Unfortunately on this case the suit had to win

Why not do both? No conference I've ever attended has been less successful due to getting a run in.

Too small a suit case to fit both in is the simple answer, other than that I'd be pounding the streets of Galway as we speak.

aquinn

Gillo wrote: »

Too small a suit case to fit both in is the simple answer, other than that I'd be pounding the streets of Galway as we speak.

Next time do a Superman and wear gear under suit. Colleagues will love that.

The Black Oil

Signed up for the 10 mile in August. It'll be that month sooner than you know it...

Firedance

Gillo wrote: »

Too small a suit case to fit both in is the simple answer, other than that I'd be pounding the streets of Galway as we speak.

I am the packing queen, I'll give you some tips on how to fit everything into the teeniest cases :cool: there's always room for running gear!!