Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

The Black Oil · 12-05-2016 10:51pm

Not sure how I'm going to manage Wednesdays. I sometimes volunteer pretty much straight after I commute how and volunteering is usually done at 9:15pm ish. Unless I ask my supervisor to put me on Mondays only from June on.

Singer · 12-05-2016 11:22pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

Not sure how I'm going to manage Wednesdays. I sometimes volunteer pretty much straight after I commute how and volunteering is usually done at 9:15pm ish. Unless I ask my supervisor to put me on Mondays only from June on.

Run before work, or run after work? I regularly run late after the kids have gone to bed etc. I prefer running late to getting up in the early morning and getting out. If neither suit, then you need to alter your week's training to accommodate, move your rest days around and see if that works for you. Training plans are just guidelines, they have to fit into real life and can be changed around to suit.

An interesting thing I did last December was to arbitrarily run for at least 30 minutes every day. It was good fun, it took the procrastination out of going running, and I got pretty good at squeezing in runs in between commutes, before/after/during work, etc. I'm sure there are many people who for a variety of reasons can't, but for a lot of us it's possible to make the time if you really want to do it.

The Black Oil · 12-05-2016 11:35pm

I'm on 4 buses a day, at present. That might change in the summer, I'm hoping. Guess I could either look at running at 5am (or something), or make Weds a rest day and do Tues, Thurs, Fri-Sun for the other stuff.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

Mrs Mc · 13-05-2016 8:09am

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm on 4 buses a day, at present. That might change in the summer, I'm hoping. Guess I could either look at running at 5am (or something), or make Weds a rest day and do Tues, Thurs, Fri-Sun for the other stuff.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

+1 to running before work you will feel great after it but as distance starts to increase get to bed early and make sure you get your sleep.

Singer · 13-05-2016 9:58am

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm on 4 buses a day, at present. That might change in the summer, I'm hoping. Guess I could either look at running at 5am (or something), or make Weds a rest day and do Tues, Thurs, Fri-Sun for the other stuff.

I checked last year's novices tracker spreadsheet, I ran more than 5 times a week only twice during the 18 weeks. If you can commit to running 5 days a week, that's enough. The danger with only having 5 days when you can run is life will get in the way, so the more ways you can squeeze a run in, the better.

Firedance · 13-05-2016 10:10am

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm on 4 buses a day, at present. That might change in the summer, I'm hoping. Guess I could either look at running at 5am (or something), or make Weds a rest day and do Tues, Thurs, Fri-Sun for the other stuff.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

Hi Black oil,

Yes you can change around your days on the plan to do the speed work another day (are you looking at the boards plan?)

The main thing for everyone to remember when moving days around

1. Always follow a hard day with an easy day
2. Don't skip your rest days, they are equally as important as the days you run
3. Keep plenty of space between the speed day and the long run day
4. Try to be consistent when moving days for eg. don't do the speed work on a Wednesday one week on a Friday the next week and on a Monday the following week - keep it as close as possible to the original plan layout.

diego_b · 13-05-2016 10:12am

Singer wrote: »

I checked last year's novices tracker spreadsheet, I ran more than 5 times a week only twice during the 18 weeks. If you can commit to running 5 days a week, that's enough. The danger with only having 5 days when you can run is life will get in the way, so the more ways you can squeeze a run in, the better.

@TheBlackOil

Lunchtime runs might be an option for you, depending on work setup for you. I work from home so could manage it but my office in Dublin has showers and could have done same there. I could do anything up to four mile easy run (most often the Tuesday run on the plan) and my shower done in an hour but really had to on the ball to go (you will be doing Superman style dressing I think if doing this!). Also the runs...they are supposed to be easy pace so won't tire you out and unless it's really warm you shouldn't be too much of a ball of sweat afterwards!

The Black Oil · 13-05-2016 11:32am

The Hal Higdon novice plan. I was perhaps getting ahead of myself seeing the 10m Weds (not until October, I know!) and wondering how I'd fit that in. I presume it's preferable to do a day's run in one session and not split it in two, on the one day. As it happens, there are showers in work. I've never heard anyone use them or seen the room steamed up. Tbh, there is some red tape with certain things and my manager can be sensitive about what's allowed. I'll find out.

Btw, are lsr's slower different in place to those marked as 'easy' days? I'm still not clear on some of the jargon. Firedance, in point #3 you mentioned 'speed days', these are still pretty slow, yeah?

Anyone taking advantage of the sunshine later on?

Firedance · 13-05-2016 11:49am

The Black Oil wrote: »

The Hal Higdon novice plan. I was perhaps getting ahead of myself seeing the 10m Weds (not until October, I know!) and wondering how I'd fit that in. I presume it's preferable to do a day's run in one session and not split it in two, on the one day. As it happens, there are showers in work. I've never heard anyone use them or seen the room steamed up. Tbh, there is some red tape with certain things and my manager can be sensitive about what's allowed. I'll find out.

Btw, are lsr's slower different in place to those marked as 'easy' days? I'm still not clear on some of the jargon. Firedance, in point #3 you mentioned 'speed days', these are still pretty slow, yeah?

Anyone taking advantage of the sunshine later on?

Sorry TBO, I should have confirmed which plan you were doing first. If you are doing HH1 I don't see any reason why you couldn't swap Tuesdays and Wednesdays so do the slightly longer run on a Tuesday and the shorter one on a Wednesday. FBOT/Nop might confirm that that is okay to do, they're all easy runs its just that Wednesday builds up to your medium long run as the weeks go on. You don't have any speed work in HH1 so no need to worry about that, all your runs will be a similar pace within an 'easy range' which we will look at again closer to the plan start date. If however you have use of showers in work then you could do that and leave everything as is

You should definitely do the runs in one go and not split them over a day.

The Muppet · 13-05-2016 11:56am

Firedance wrote: »

Hi Black oil,

2. Don't skip your rest days, they are equally as important as the days you run

Extrasupervery · 13-05-2016 12:15pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

The Hal Higdon novice plan. I was perhaps getting ahead of myself seeing the 10m Weds (not until October, I know!) and wondering how I'd fit that in. I presume it's preferable to do a day's run in one session and not split it in two, on the one day. As it happens, there are showers in work. I've never heard anyone use them or seen the room steamed up. Tbh, there is some red tape with certain things and my manager can be sensitive about what's allowed. I'll find out.

Btw, are lsr's slower different in place to those marked as 'easy' days? I'm still not clear on some of the jargon. Firedance, in point #3 you mentioned 'speed days', these are still pretty slow, yeah?

Anyone taking advantage of the sunshine later on?

I am! Sun cream on and I'm off to get a long run in, I'm working Sunday so I've had to switch my days. The more intense this training gets the more I'm going to loathe shift work. I work 13 hour shifts 3-4 days a week, it'll be difficult to get decent miles in some weeks.

Firedance · 13-05-2016 12:21pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Is the cross training day and recovery runs counted as a rest day? The boards plan has a total for each week. Heres week 1 as an example
Week start |Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday|Planned*
27/06/16|rest,cross or 3m rec|3m easy|4m with 5 x 100m strides|3m easy|3m easy rest, cross or 3m rec|8m lsr| 2m rec|23

Apologies if I'm miss understanding something but the way I'm reading it we will be running 6 days to hit the planned weekly mileage totals if we stick to the daily milage on the plan. 6 days running and 1 day cross training ,

We will look at ways to build flexibility into the plans closer to the start time TM, don't worry about any of this just yet it will all work out fine.

For now I hope you're all enjoying the lovely weather and (slowly!) building your weekly mileage - and remember, slow down those longer run paces!

Stevo1983 · 13-05-2016 1:33pm

Best of luck to all the novices taking on DCM this year.
It was easily the best experience I've had running.
My only bit of advice would be to stick to the plan as much as you can.
If you need a rest take it, missing a session here and there won't ruin you big day but dragging yourself out when you're dead on your feet will do you no good.
Hopefully I'll see a few of you on the route

kittyclaws · 13-05-2016 2:36pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

Anyone taking advantage of the sunshine later on?

I've three easy miles to do tonight, I'm gonna enjoy them

Phoebas · 13-05-2016 3:46pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm on 4 buses a day, at present. That might change in the summer, I'm hoping. Guess I could either look at running at 5am (or something), or make Weds a rest day and do Tues, Thurs, Fri-Sun for the other stuff.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

When I was training for this last year I was really finding the 5 days a week training difficult to fit in. I was having to plan out my running weekly schedule against my OHs schedule and the kid's after school activities etc. When you're running 5 days a week there isn't too much room to manoeuvre, especially when those really long lsrs start kicking in (you probably don't want to be slotting in a 20 mile lsr before you go to work :pac:).

I started to do a run-commute once or twice a week and it made things a lot easier. I'd bring my gear with me in the morning, leave my work clothes in work and run home. My run commute was actually taking less time than my normal bus commute.

I don't know it this would suit you, but anyone who could do it should consider it.

13-05-2016 4:01pm

Just got back from 6km (3.5m) run. I think I'm sunburnt

lenny palmer · 13-05-2016 4:36pm

nop98 wrote: »

Hey Lenny - welcome on board!

When is the Trim 10M?

My main point of feedback would be the need to slowly move the balance towards running 4-5x a week - at some point reduce the cross-training to once a week? You seem to have a great base and your PBs (over 10M especially) is very encouraging - it's a matter to start working on extending your endurance, this can only done by covering miles and more miles. Did you cover longer distances in races or training? Make sure to calculate a realistic PMP (3h30 is a sharp target! Maybe base it off 3h45), and start to slowly increase your weekly mileage.

Looking forward to see how you progress!

Sorry nop98. What I ment was that the plan got me to the start line of the Trim 10 mile in February. The plan does increase running to 4/5 days a week so there will be enough running done.

Extrasupervery · 13-05-2016 4:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just got back from 6km (3.5m) run. I think I'm sunburnt

Aloe vera to the rescue! I just ran up Chesterfield Avenue...there's no cover there at all at all. I'm not sunburnt but I'm developing a serious Garmin pale spot.

diego_b · 13-05-2016 5:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just got back from 6km (3.5m) run. I think I'm sunburnt

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Aloe vera to the rescue! I just ran up Chesterfield Avenue...there's no cover there at all at all. I'm not sunburnt but I'm developing a serious Garmin pale spot.

Wait till ye hear about naked runs....

Extrasupervery · 13-05-2016 6:14pm

diego_b wrote: »

Wait till ye hear about naked runs....

At least that way I wouldn't have watch strap marks

Firedance · 13-05-2016 6:21pm

ladies and gentlemen of the class of 2016, wear sunscreen :cool:

kin9pin · 13-05-2016 6:28pm

Went to Amphibian King yesterday and found them really good, so knowledgable. Turns out I am neutral and I don't need the level of support in my current shoes.
I ended up getting Saucony Ride9's, first run this morning with them and wow!

Definitely recommend Amphibian King. They really do all they can to match a shoe exactly to you and your expected mileage.

MonkstownHoop · 13-05-2016 7:08pm

kin9pin wrote: »

Went to Amphibian King yesterday and found them really good, so knowledgable. Turns out I am neutral and I don't need the level of support in my current shoes.
I ended up getting Saucony Ride9's, first run this morning with them and wow!

Definitely recommend Amphibian King. They really do all they can to match a shoe exactly to you and your expected mileage.

Absolutely, I was the opposite I needed more support, great shop and service!

MonkstownHoop · 13-05-2016 7:08pm

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Aloe vera to the rescue! I just ran up Chesterfield Avenue...there's no cover there at all at all. I'm not sunburnt but I'm developing a serious Garmin pale spot.

Same here, might stick it on my other arm tomorrow :-)

Wubble Wubble · 13-05-2016 8:23pm

Ok I'll belatedly join in here....not quite a novice, but anyway!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k - June 2014 - 20:46
5 mile - May 2014 - 34:08
10k - May 2013 - 43:56
10 mile – March 2016 - PB 1:14:13
1/2 Marathon - March 2014 - PB 1:37:07
Marathon - April 2014 - 4:18:52

Running since the summer of 2012, although this is the first year I've really concentrated on it, having finished playing Gaelic football at the end of last year. This year I ran the Connemara HM in 1:40, and covered HM distance in the Wings For Life run. I'm also fast approaching the 50 Parkrun milestone.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
4 days a week usually, but this can and probably will increase.
Coming up to Connemara I was covering 30+ miles a week with a 13-15 mile long run on Sundays, and a parkrun on Saturday included. Since then I've eased off somewhat (not injury related) but am ready to pick it up again. I may join a club soon, to help structure it all a bit better.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Goal 1 – Sub 4. I wanted to do this in Paris, but low overall mileage, heat exhaustion and moving house the same week were factors in my second half downfall.
Goal 2 – Sub 3:50. Definitely achievable based on HM and other times if all goes well.
Goal 3 – Sub 3:45; as above... best case?

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
4 or 5 I reckon. Boards plan looks more like my style, although I may have to incorporate the PR into my long runs if I'm to follow it rigorously and keep those going.

Why are you running this marathon?
I've wanted to run the Dublin Marathon for years. I was signed up for DCM in 2014, but backed out of it due to picking up too many niggly injuries in the months leading up to it. An absolute stinker of a Dublin HM made my mind up if it wasn't already.

Back when I was a little boy growing up fadó fadó, the marathon used to pass our house. We'd go out and cheer all the runners as they passed. One of my uncles ran it in the 1980s. More recently, one of my cousins is a multiple marathoner and has done this one several times; one of my BILs has run it too. Apart from that, much as I was and still am proud of running the Paris Marathon, I know I can do far better than a 30 minute positive split as the wheels came off that day.

Thanks to nop98 for offering to act as mentor, and best of luck to everyone!

MonkstownHoop · 13-05-2016 8:38pm

First training step implemented, booked the race series and Marathon, no going back now!

Maximus Alexander · 13-05-2016 9:02pm

Phoebas wrote: »

I started to do a run-commute once or twice a week and it made things a lot easier. I'd bring my gear with me in the morning, leave my work clothes in work and run home. My run commute was actually taking less time than my normal bus commute.

You know this is such a great and simple idea I don't know how I didn't think of it. I've been running in and out with a bag on my back and it's murdering my legs. Cheers, I'll steal this method.

nop98 · 13-05-2016 10:17pm

Firedance wrote: »

Hi Black oil,

Yes you can change around your days on the plan to do the speed work another day (are you looking at the boards plan?)

The main thing for everyone to remember when moving days around

1. Always follow a hard day with an easy day
2. Don't skip your rest days, they are equally as important as the days you run
3. Keep plenty of space between the speed day and the long run day
4. Try to be consistent when moving days for eg. don't do the speed work on a Wednesday one week on a Friday the next week and on a Monday the following week - keep it as close as possible to the original plan layout.

Firedance wrote: »

Sorry TBO, I should have confirmed which plan you were doing first. If you are doing HH1 I don't see any reason why you couldn't swap Tuesdays and Wednesdays so do the slightly longer run on a Tuesday and the shorter one on a Wednesday. FBOT/Nop might confirm that that is okay to do, they're all easy runs its just that Wednesday builds up to your medium long run as the weeks go on. You don't have any speed work in HH1 so no need to worry about that, all your runs will be a similar pace within an 'easy range' which we will look at again closer to the plan start date. If however you have use of showers in work then you could do that and leave everything as is You should definitely do the runs in one go and not split them over a day.

Good stuff, FD, thank you for stepping in. This is all excellent advice.

TBO - move the days in the week around as you see fit - but keep Firedance's advice in mind. Make sure there's a rest day following your LSR. If you're doing HHN1, keep a few days between the LSR and MLR (medium long run) every week.

Plan ahead - I remember sweating for ages over a holiday in West Cork with two days driving on Saturdays, and then my boss sent me on a trip for a week, too. Get yourself a spreadsheet with a table like the plan, and see if it works out or not, and adapt.

A last thing I'll say is, if you do have to miss a run, so be it - don't sweat it - and don't feel the need to squeeze it into next week, either. Just make sure you don't miss MLR or LSR, skip an easy run if need be.

nop98 · 13-05-2016 10:30pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Is the cross training day and recovery runs counted as a rest day? The boards plan has a total for each week. Heres week 1 as an example
Week start |Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday|Planned*
27/06/16|rest,cross or 3m rec|3m easy|4m with 5 x 100m strides|3m easy|rest, cross or 3m rec|8m lsr| 2m rec|23

Apologies if I'm miss understanding something but the way I'm reading it we will be running 6 days to hit the planned weekly mileage totals if we stick to the daily milage on the plan. 6 days running and 1 day cross training ,

Hey The Muppet - thanks for asking, I had meant to clarify this. This is my view on it (heavily influenced by what I did last year).

The "rest, cross, or 3M rec" days are rest/recovery days. Pick rest, or cross-training, but if you feel like it (and maybe missed an easy session earlier in the week), throw in a few recovery miles.

I would recommend at least one entire day off each week (when following the boards plan). Additionally, add one day of cross-training (which should be seen as recovery and should be gentle). E.g. pilates or yoga (which can be tough enough), a gentle 30-40 minute spin on the bike, some swimming, etc. Don't do a heavy spinning class in the gym, hit the weights with a vengeneance, or do a strength/conditioning circuit class.

Typically, my week would be 5 days running (and it seems Singer recommended the same):

Mon: rest
Tue: easy
Wed: easy / speed
Thu: easy
Fri: cross (Pilates)
Sat: LSR
Sun: Recovery

The totals in the plan are based on all easy / speed / LSR miles, the Sunday recovery miles, and one 3m recovery session on Mon or Fri. Again, you don't have to do these. Rest or cross-training is preferred (one each, per week).

Does this make sense? I'll update the online spreadsheet, as it is indeed a little confusing.

The Muppet · 14-05-2016 12:16pm

nop98 wrote: »

Hey The Muppet - thanks for asking, I had meant to clarify this. This is my view on it (heavily influenced by what I did last year).

The "rest, cross, or 3M rec" days are rest/recovery days. Pick rest, or cross-training, but if you feel like it (and maybe missed an easy session earlier in the week), throw in a few recovery miles.

I would recommend at least one entire day off each week (when following the boards plan). Additionally, add one day of cross-training (which should be seen as recovery and should be gentle). E.g. pilates or yoga (which can be tough enough), a gentle 30-40 minute spin on the bike, some swimming, etc. Don't do a heavy spinning class in the gym, hit the weights with a vengeneance, or do a strength/conditioning circuit class.

Typically, my week would be 5 days running (and it seems Singer recommended the same):
Mon: rest

Tue: easy

Wed: easy / speed

Thu: easy

Fri: cross (Pilates)

Sat: LSR

Sun: Recovery

The totals in the plan are based on all easy / speed / LSR miles, the Sunday recovery miles, and one 3m recovery session on Mon or Fri. Again, you don't have to do these. Rest or cross-training is preferred (one each, per week).

Does this make sense? I'll update the online spreadsheet, as it is indeed a little confusing.

Thanks for clarifying that Nop . It all makes sense to me now. I have been running 5 days with 2 days rest for the last few months and that schedule appears to suit me so apart from the increased milage I should slip into the plan easily enough.

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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