Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

This Fat Girl Runs

kabuxa wrote: »

I do have porridge & fruit in the morning... but here is where I have a problem ;o) If we usually go running at 8.30am.... there is no way I will get up 2.5 hours before to have breakfast. ;o) Seriously.... I have heard this before the 2 hour, 2 and a half before running.... is it really that important... can 1 hour, 1.5h do? Thanks!

You'll know yourself if an hour/hour & half is enough but there's no harm in getting up early, eating, then going back to bed. I did this on my Sunday LSR's during last year's marathon training. Even if I didn't get back to sleep, I was still resting. I also made sure to get to bed early the night before. It wasn't the easiest to get up that early but the benefits outweighed the hardship.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Well I can only tell you what I did during marathon training last year I did my long runs Sunday morning got up 2 hours before I went out had a berroca boost porridge with blueberries and raspberries and a cuppa tea not all together obviously !!! then I'd stretch for 20 mins while watching xpose catching up on my autumn winter fashion tips !!! Then head out for the run. It was literally the same thing every Sunday. I did try coffee early in the programme but that didnt agree with me so changed to tea. It meant on the morning of DCM I had the exact same routine as long run day you know what works you know how your body reacts and it's just what works for you you've the next number of weeks to see what works for you

+1 to this. The sooner you settle into a routine the more prepared you'll be on marathon day. Your mind and body will be not only be trained to run, it will be trained to be up, fueled and prepped too. The pre-race prep is important too and should be practiced to perfection. As you'll hear your mentors telling you...now is the time!

All or nothing

Hi guys,

I have been doing exams up to last week so I was catching up on the thread during the week when I finally had some free time.

I was thinking about doing DCM 2015 but thought another years running would serve me better. So here I am, I had a look at the 2015 thread at the time. I picked up lots of great advice from that which I have put into practice since.

Been running properly since summer 2014. Started off doing a few 10km races then did a few 10 mile races in Jan and March 2015.
Cork City half marathon was my first half this time last year. I then did Charleville half in Sept last year. I am training at the moment for the Cork half which is on 6th June.

Two weeks before the Cork half last year while doing a few strides at the end of an easy run, I pulled my groin muscle. I went to a physio at the time and she got me to the start line. I then went to a different physio later in 2015 and he diagnosed my issue as a hip impingement. I then took some time off running from October- Jan 16 to concentrate on strengthening exercises daily to sort my hip problem. I was also doing exams in January so didn't really have time for work,study, running and the strengthening exercises. Thankfully I think its all sorted now.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I have done a number of races mostly last year and 2014. 5km PB 22:30 (July 2015), 5 Mile PB 37:30 ( April 2015), 10 Mile PB 84 (April 2016,) Half Marathon PB 1:59 (September 2015)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Since I have gone back running properly at the end of January this year I have been running 4-5 days a week normally around 20-25 miles a week. If I had kept up the running after the half I did in September last year I would have ran over 1000 miles last year.

I usually do run specific strength training twice a week, prescribed from my physio: Lunges, single leg squats, single leg bridge, calf raises etc.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

As can be seen from the drop off in my times as the distance goes up endurance is my main weakness so Ill see how the training is going before I set a target time. Id like to finish my 1st marathon having ran the whole way around. I think I am capable of maybe 4:15-4:20, but Im not going to worry about times right now. Getting to the start line injury free will be more important for me.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

5 days a week running should be no problem for me. I will keep up the exercises the physio has me doing 2 days a week then.
I like the look of the boards plan, Its printed off now and stuck on the fridge, ready to go.

Why are you running this marathon?

I suppose its the natural progression after a few half marathons. Looking forward to the challenge.

jake1970

While training for DCM last year I would have a bagel and jam 1 hour before the morning runs. On the evening runs I would have a light lunch which would be about 3 hours before my run and then a banana 15 mins before I run. This routine worked very well for me but it is very much an individual thing and you really have to work out what works for you and now is the time to do this.

spaceylou

jake1970 wrote: »

... now is the time to do this.

I feel this is becoming a reoccurring theme i better pay attention to!!

Enjoy your weekend runs all

nop98

Many questions about nutrition in the past few days, and as usual, the answer is that there is no one-size-fits-all. By the way, I am absolutely no expert in this area.

A couple of thoughts - these are my personal opinions, I am sure there are many more knowledgeable folks out there eager to jump in. :rolleyes:

• I am very much of the "just eat your greens and you'll be fine" school, as advocated by TFB and others. Simply improving your diet slightly but structurally will reap massive benefits. For me, the mainstay was plenty of fresh fruit and muesli in the mornings, wholemeal breads, etc. When the mileage crept up, chicken-wraps for lunch (can't stand the sight of them now, actually). Just a sensible approach: don't eat crap. I am absolutely no poster-boy as health-nut and found I didn't need to be, either.
• Very little artificial stuff for me, the odd vitamin/omega-3 supplement, but that's it. I even gave away the protein-shaker that we got after the FD10 in August.
• What works for a sub 2h30 marathoner might not necessary be recommended practice for first-time marathoners. On that note, TFB is an accomplished ultra-runner whose opinion I value tremendously. If he can make do without much artificial stuff, so can we.
• As Mrs Mc, TFGR, and others remark, getting your pre-run feeding strategy right is an important part of your LSRs. It's a huge advantage doing your LSRs early in the morning as DCM itself will kick-off at 9am - meaning you can prepare for the big day like you've been preparing for LSRs for months. I appreciate this is not always possible, but consider it part of the training and try to fit it in. A proper meal the evening before, and up (sometimes ridiculously) early to prepare are just going to be part of the journey.
• Bagels or toast, muesli and banana as pre-LSR feed (an hour before is fine - as KennyG points out). The going-back-to-bed part of it didn't work for me, I am not that disciplined!
• Gels and water/sport-drink for during the runs - as discussed before, this needs practice. You want to get the eating routine (a) the night before, (b) the morning of the run, and (c) during the race practiced many many times.
• Make sure to prepare for after your LSR. If you come home after 3 hours running, you'll be delighted having a snack and drink ready, especially if you're coming home to an empty house.

Happy running this weekend!

ToriV

nop98 wrote: »

Hello ToriV, welcome to the thread, sorry it took so long to respond.

I am glad to hear you've already learned a few truths about how to properly train (the hard way, it seems ) but you seem to be injury-free at the moment?

I think HHN1 is fine for you, it will allow you to slowly build up your mileage and you can easily fit in your cross training - core/glutes is an excellent area to focus on (but you probably won't have time or energy for two days ), see how you get on. Remember that that is meant to be an easy day.

Not much feedback for the time being - you should consider planning the 5M on June 12 or an equivalent race in June before the training plans start. Additionally, don't wait with slowly increasing your weekly mileage. The further you can get ahead of the curve, the better (the plan will eventually catch up!).

The very best of luck!

Thanks! Yes learned the hard way but really careful now so thankfully have been injury free (touch wood). Agree about the cross training, really trying to get my core strenght back after 2 caesareans but it's going in the right direction. I have a question about training days - I usually run 4 days a week one day on, next day off running but I see the programme has consecutive days. Is it important to do this or does it make a difference?? Thanks☺

nop98

ToriV wrote: »

Thanks! Yes learned the hard way but really careful now so thankfully have been injury free (touch wood). Agree about the cross training, really trying to get my core strenght back after 2 caesareans but it's going in the right direction. I have a question about training days - I usually run 4 days a week one day on, next day off running but I see the programme has consecutive days. Is it important to do this or does it make a difference?? Thanks☺

Hey - organize the week the way it suits you, but make sure to keep the harder days (e.g. the LSR and the mid-week mid-long run) well separate, and ideally on the same days (roughly) every week.

Antwerp

Thanks for all the advise, Nop98 & co.

Beautiful day out there must be 12degrees (tis an Irish heatwave lol. )......just completed my quick run and off to get provisions now for my Long Run tomorrow morning. Happy running everyone!

Gillo

Try keeping to the plan ToriV, but the reality is a lot of people have to chop and change, as Nop98 said keep an eye on the long runs (a rest day afterwards is really important). I work five days out of seven a week but it can be any five days so I was constantly changing going the plan and it still worked. As soon as I had my hours for the following week, I'd look at the runs I had to do and I'd fit them in. It wasn't 100% ideal but it did work.
Although I did find because I was moving about runs, it was easy to skip a run and say I'll do it later in the week, be careful of not falling into that trap as one you start doing it, it's an easy (bad) habit to get into.

jameshayes

First long slow run today. Went out too fast.. next time i'll go slower.

It didnt feel too bad when I was running, i felt I could hold a conversation easy but it was 30sec's a KM quicker than my prescribed LSR pace

https://www.strava.com/activities/590524431

Edit; Strava is saying I killed 1300 calories in that run.. There is no way in hell I'll be able to eat them back today along with my standard 2000.. Fug. I can't really afford to lose weight - I don't carry a lot of it around with me!

This Fat Girl Runs

Hey guys, I saw a few pages back some conversation about having/wanting to go for a run. Just wanted to throw in my two cents (or 5, if we're rounding ).

Marathon training is tiring. There will be days when you are tired and when you aren't going to want to run. That's ok! It's normal! The key is what you DO with it. If you push on and run regardless, that's great mental training (and you're going to need that!). If your body is really really telling you to rest instead, then rest and make the most of it. That's also great mental training because you're learning to listen to your body and respond. You'll be doing that on your training runs too!

If your mind and body are both raring to go for your run, that's fantastic but if your mind wants to run and your body doesn't or the body does and mind doesn't, then make the call that will be most beneficial. Mentally AND physically.

I would say that the mental training is just as important as the phsyical. You're going to be talking a lot about your body over the next number of months. Running, stretching, strength & conditioning, aches, pains, niggles, blisters, toenails, feet, pacing, chafing, taping and oh my gosh that's only half of it!

Just don't forget this is a mental race too and you'll need to train and rest your mind. Make the most of your rest days and put down the plans & spreadsheets, log off the strava, log off boards and go do the thing you do to switch off. Read a book, watch a movie, listen to music, play a game, play with the kids, the cat, the dog. Give your brain a break from running! You'll thank yourself in the end.

Firedance

nop98 wrote: »

Many questions about nutrition in the past few days, and as usual, the answer is that there is no one-size-fits-all. By the way, I am absolutely no expert in this area.

A couple of thoughts - these are my personal opinions, I am sure there are many more knowledgeable folks out there eager to jump in. :rolleyes:

• I am very much of the "just eat your greens and you'll be fine" school, as advocated by TFB and others. Simply improving your diet slightly but structurally will reap massive benefits. For me, the mainstay was plenty of fresh fruit and muesli in the mornings, wholemeal breads, etc. When the mileage crept up, chicken-wraps for lunch (can't stand the sight of them now, actually). Just a sensible approach: don't eat crap. I am absolutely no poster-boy as health-nut and found I didn't need to be, either.
• Very little artificial stuff for me, the odd vitamin/omega-3 supplement, but that's it. I even gave away the protein-shaker that we got after the FD10 in August.
• What works for a sub 2h30 marathoner might not necessary be recommended practice for first-time marathoners. On that note, TFB is an accomplished ultra-runner whose opinion I value tremendously. If he can make do without much artificial stuff, so can we.
• As Mrs Mc, TFGR, and others remark, getting your pre-run feeding strategy right is an important part of your LSRs. It's a huge advantage doing your LSRs early in the morning as DCM itself will kick-off at 9am - meaning you can prepare for the big day like you've been preparing for LSRs for months. I appreciate this is not always possible, but consider it part of the training and try to fit it in. A proper meal the evening before, and up (sometimes ridiculously) early to prepare are just going to be part of the journey.
• Bagels or toast, muesli and banana as pre-LSR feed (an hour before is fine - as KennyG points out). The going-back-to-bed part of it didn't work for me, I am not that disciplined!
• Gels and water/sport-drink for during the runs - as discussed before, this needs practice. You want to get the eating routine (a) the night before, (b) the morning of the run, and (c) during the race practiced many many times.
• Make sure to prepare for after your LSR. If you come home after 3 hours running, you'll be delighted having a snack and drink ready, especially if you're coming home to an empty house.

Happy running this weekend!

Some super fuelling & nutrition advice there from everyone. If anyone likes bananas and nuts, this is a lovely banana bread recipe (yum!) I used to have a couple of slices in the car for when I finished my Long runs this year, you can use any nuts you like, put more in, sprinkle more on top. Just make sure the bananas are overripe. Another boardsie makes this with chocolate chips which just ads to the yum value so I've included them below

Ingredients:
8oz/225g plain flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 heaped teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
110g/4oz caster sugar
1 egg beaten
75ml/3 fl oz sunflower oil*
a few drops of vanilla extract or essence
65g/2.5 oz pecan nuts copped
4 medium-sized ripe bananas, mashed
OPtional: chocolate chips (buttons chopped up with do)

Method:
1.Sift the flour, salt, baking powder and cinnamon into a bowl and stir in the sugar.

2 Mix in the egg, sunflower oil* and vanilla but do not beat.

3.Fold in the pecans and mashed bananas (and chocolate chips if using them) using a fork. Again, do not beat.

4.Spoon into a lined 900g/2lb loaf tin and bake in an oven preheated to 180c/350f/gas mark 4 for 50-60 minutes, until the loaf is golden brown and springs back when prodded gently with your finger.

5. Leave in the tin for 10 mins, then turn onto a wire rack to cool.


*This is the original recipe but I prefer to use 3oz melted butter rather than oil.
If you like you can also sprinkle a few pecans on top and trickle over some maple or butterscotch syrup!
Sometimes it can be hard to find pecans, walnuts are a great substitute just not as sweet.

Maximus Alexander

My OH likes to bake when she's bored. That recipe might mysteriously find itself pinned to the fridge.

TFBubendorfer

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm following this. Why is it counter-productive?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/21/vitamin-supplements-increase-risk-cancer-heart-disease-research

Also, there is a very real risk of supplements being contaminated (e.g this from the Irish sports council or this from the USADA.

I realise that nobody in the novices threat is going to be tested for PEDs but personally I wouldn't want to put anything into my body that runs a real risk of being contaminated with unknown substances.

aceygray

I need some advice on stretching. I've never bothered with it much, maybe just one or two quick stretches if any areas felt especially tight. But the last week or so my legs have been very stiff when I first get up in the morning. They loosen out once I start to move, and its not affecting my running, but still.

I don't have any aches or pains, just stiffness. Can anyone recommend a few good stretches I should be doing? Also, how often and when should I be doing them? I presume after my run.

I bought myself a foam roller yesterday as a payday treat Any tips on using it would also be welcome.

BTW, thanks for the recipe, Firedance! I bake a lot, and love finding new recipes.

Maximus Alexander

Main thing I'd say for the foam roller is don't roll your knees! Other than that just go to town on your legs and explore.

diego_b

jameshayes wrote: »

First long slow run today. Went out too fast.. next time i'll go slower.

It didnt feel too bad when I was running, i felt I could hold a conversation easy but it was 30sec's a KM quicker than my prescribed LSR pace

https://www.strava.com/activities/590524431

Edit; Strava is saying I killed 1300 calories in that run.. There is no way in hell I'll be able to eat them back today along with my standard 2000.. Fug. I can't really afford to lose weight - I don't carry a lot of it around with me!

My understanding of this from a calorie counting basis is that you only need to put back in a third of what you burn off....same also for DCM day. Calorie burn on a run and what you can put back in afterwards can be deceptive so enjoy your 2433kcals approx today!

The Muppet

Re foam rolling james dunne has some videos on YouTube showing how to do.

The Muppet

Re foam rolling james dunne has some videos on YouTube showing how to do.

Maximus Alexander

diego_b wrote: »

My understanding of this from a calorie counting basis is that you only need to put back in a third of what you burn off....same also for DCM day. Calorie burn on a run and what you can put back in afterwards can be deceptive so enjoy your 2433kcals approx today!

I'd imagine you probably naturally make up the rest over the course of the week anyway because you'll just be hungrier at meal times. I haven't noticed myself losing a substantial amount of weight since I started running.

diego_b

Frank Duffy 10 Mile recce (part of a planned 10 mile LSR that became 11 miles due to a slightly early start to the run and a extra bit added in error).

A good few of you will likely be running the Frank Duffy 10 mile race in the Phoenix Park in August. Not sure if I will myself as I live the far end of the country (in Dublin every four weeks for work) and I am trying to be mindful of what races I really want/feel the need to do during DCM training.
Today I ran the new race route for 2016 so said I'd share my thoughts here.

The start, you'll start on Chesterfield Avenue just past the Furze Road. The first 2 miles are fast....even with the little drag that Chesterfield Avenue is you are only on it for a few hundred metres. After that you'll turn onto Ordinance Survey road and you get a drop down the Glen Road for two miles approx. I was deliberately trying to run slow but I suspect on race day this section could be key for getting into the right effort, you will gain time but if you go too fast you will pay for it later. Mile 3 is a little bit trickier as you doing the S bends in reverse to way you used to do them for most races in the park over the last few years, a few short ups and downs there but so shouldn't lose much time....you get to run down Military Hill then which is the first time I've done that....a novelty and a quite nice. A kick upwards around 3.5 miles as you run Wellington Road but the pace will pick up as you run towards the four mile marker on Lord's Walk. It drops a bit there but then you have draggy section over miles 5 and 6. It's not too bad but you can feel it in the legs, I prefer hills than drags myself! Now comes the nice part from mile marker 6 all the way through to mile 8.5 it is fast, you rejoin Chesterfield Ave around 6.5 miles and run about half the avenue before breaking off across the sports fields (it's not as fast as going down the Kyber but it is fast).
Finally to finish you are back onto the old route for this race and the DCHM, up the Glen Road. This is always going to be a tester for sure but I think the previous 2.5 miles being fast and relatively easy you should have something in the tank to give it a good finish.
I think the new route is certainly better as it keeps you in the park throughout and even with the traditional tough finish all going well you will finish strong.

Today doing the run I started the run about 0.3 of a mile early (impatience) and took a wrong turn to take in the out and back to Castleknock gate so I made a 11 miler out of it. Really enjoyed the run though, but running at 12:30-2:15 or so I took in the warmest part of the day.

Strava link if anyone interested

Also to note someone has marked the mile markers for the race on the road in spray paint so handy for a point of reference.

diego_b

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'd imagine you probably naturally make up the rest over the course of the week anyway because you'll just be hungrier at meal times. I haven't noticed myself losing a substantial amount of weight since I started running.

Possibly so alright but it is one thing to advise is that just with the extra running and training people are doing don't expect you can eat that much extra. Keep an eye on the scales as a mistake I made last year was probably eating too much in July/August and put on at least a kilo or two and only got a handle on it in September and adjusted my diet and then the extra few kgs plus a bit extra were gone come DCM day. Peanut butter was a big discovery for me as often after runs I would have some toast with peanut butter (and jam) on it and that would be it for the extra food. If you keep an eye on the scales, set a day of the week that you check your weight...for me it's a Tuesday morning and keep up your fluid intake you should be okay.

spaceylou

@Diego - thanks for the info on the 10m route. I live in Dublin but never run in the park - think I am going to have to change that in the coming months, especially before the 10m and HM take place there.

@Firedance - thank you for the recipe looks good - shall have to try it. If anyone is interested in yummy (vaguely healthy) treats here is a recipe for date and peanut-butter balls.

200g dates (these are easier to work with if you soak for 60 - 90min before starting)
1 tbsp Crunchy Peanut Butter
2 tbsp milled seeds
1 tbsp coconut oil - melted

Dark Chocolate (optional)

Blitz the dates in food processor until as smooth as possible. Add the peanut butter, seeds and oil and mix.

Roll into balls, bit smaller than a golf ball is ideal, and freeze.

Optional step: after half an hour, melt the dark chocolate, dip the balls in the choc and freeze again.

These keep in the freezer and are great after a run or with a cuppa just cause. Unfortunately they don't travel well.

I also previously saw a recipe in the forum for chocolate milk but I can't find where I wrote it down. Essentially it was adding cocoa powder and sugar to milk but I can't remember the exact quantities - was probably to taste anyway. Cheaper than buying the premixed choc milk for anyone partial to it after a long run.

Singer

Last years novices thread seemed to be mostly about food, good to see that things are back on track!

spaceylou

Singer wrote: »

Last years novices thread seemed to be mostly about food, good to see that things are back on track!

Well I also had a question about snot rockets after today's run (fly went up my nose) but I thought I'd leave it a few weeks before lowering the tone!

The Black Oil

First lsr today, 6m. Found it generally fine. No complaints, really. Mentally, I was bored (thinking of the internet too much!) for most of it until near the end. I used a gel after about 4m. What do I need to look out for here, dodgy tummy stuff or something? I had them as back up on a cycling trip in Asia before, but was mostly on electrolytes there and left the gel until the end of the day.

Cross tomorrow - is walking OK? I think this was OK in the OP or one of the early posts in the thread.

Sounds like from the above there's an excuse to eat sweet things again.

This Fat Girl Runs

On the subject of food, here's my recipe for flapjacks...in case anyone wanted to, you know, bring some for after a race. Or something. Like that. Maybe.

Ingredients:

250g butter
250g brown sugar
250g honey or golden syrup (or a mix of both if you run out of honey like I did! )
500g jumbo oats
125g dried fruit, chopped (I used dates and a handful of dried cranberries)

1. Melt together the butter, sugar and honey over low heat, then stir in the dry ingredients until well combined.

2. Divide evenly and pat into 2 non-stick baking tins 20cm x 20cm

3. Bake at Gas Mark 4 1/2 / 180 degrees / 170 fan for about 20 mins or until golden - if they are thick they may take slightly longer.

4. Let them cool before you try to remove them from the tin, and once quite cool prise them away from the edges, compress the middle to help them stick then leave for a little longer. Then turn out on to a board and allow to cool fully.

5. Finally, cut them up with a sharp knife and devour!

You have to really compress them as they are cooling. They're sticky but crumbly. But yummy. Really yummy!

kin9pin

Just wondering about how to merge my current HM plan for Clontarf (9 July) with the start of the Boards DCM plan?

I've had a stab below, using my current plan up to the race and getting back to the Boards plan on Thursday 14 July. I take it this is ok if I run the HM at LSR pace, but what if I were to run it at race pace or maybe half easy,half race?

Boards
Week Days
Week start # Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
27/06/16 18 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 4m with 5 x 100m strides 3m easy rest, cross or 3m rec 8m lsr 2m rec
04/07/16 17 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 1m w/u, 3m pace, 1m c/d 3m rec rest, cross or 3m rec 10m lsr 2m rec
11/07/16 16 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 5m with 5 x hill sprints 4m easy rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec
18/07/16 15 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 1m w/u, 4m pace, 1m c/d 3m rec rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec

Amended
Week Days
Week start # Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
27/06/16 18 rest 3m easy 10min w/u, 4x5min threshold with 2min recovery 3m easy 10min w/u, 5x3min ,1min rec rest 40min easy, 30min HM pace
04/07/16 17 rest 10min easy, 10min pace, 10min easy rest 3m easy rest Clontarf HM rest
11/07/16 16 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy rest,cross or 3m rec 4m easy rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec
18/07/16 15 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 1m w/u, 4m pace, 1m c/d 3m rec rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec

Firedance

jameshayes wrote: »

First long slow run today. Went out too fast.. next time i'll go slower.

It didnt feel too bad when I was running, i felt I could hold a conversation easy but it was 30sec's a KM quicker than my prescribed LSR pace

https://www.strava.com/activities/590524431

Edit; Strava is saying I killed 1300 calories in that run.. There is no way in hell I'll be able to eat them back today along with my standard 2000.. Fug. I can't really afford to lose weight - I don't carry a lot of it around with me!

too fast?!!! to the back of the class with you james!!! On calorie burning, as far as I know (and maybe Myles or FBOT can confirm this or not) unless you are using a hear rate monitor the calorie burn you get from your watch/strava/phone app etc is not accurate and is overstated. I know when I run the same route, at the same pace, my calorie burn in less when I wear my HR monitor than it is when I don't so don't hold too much stock in the information, its just a guideline based on rough calculations. As diego_b has already said, don't go overboard on the food but make sure to eat enough of the good stuff.

spaceylou wrote: »

Well I also had a question about snot rockets after today's run (fly went up my nose) but I thought I'd leave it a few weeks before lowering the tone!

Aero2K is the man to ask about this apparently :rolleyes: yuck... my advice for what its worth, just carry a tissue

The Muppet

My weeks training

Day|Activity|Details|Distance in Miles|Time Minutes
Monday|Cross Training| 45 minutes on the bike|
Tuesday|Easy Run|45 minutes easy at 130 bpm|3.90|44:46
Wednesday|Session|30 minutes easy with' 6 x 45 seconds @ 5k pace (7:48) with 90 second recovery |3.02|33:10
Thursday|Easy Run|44:01 minutes @ 131bpm, 4.08 miles @10:47 pace|4.08|44:01
Friday|Rest|Rest
Saturday|Session|1 mile warm up , St Annes Parkrun and 1 mile cool down.|5.05|47.52
Sunday|LSR|2 hours easy@ 126 bpm|10.42|120.19
Totals|||26:47 Miles|4:50:08 Hours

Mrs Mc

aceygray wrote: »

I need some advice on stretching. I've never bothered with it much, maybe just one or two quick stretches if any areas felt especially tight. But the last week or so my legs have been very stiff when I first get up in the morning. They loosen out once I start to move, and its not affecting my running, but still.

I don't have any aches or pains, just stiffness. Can anyone recommend a few good stretches I should be doing? Also, how often and when should I be doing them? I presume after my run.

I bought myself a foam roller yesterday as a payday treat Any tips on using it would also be welcome.

BTW, thanks for the recipe, Firedance! I bake a lot, and love finding new recipes.

Aceygray again it's all about what works for you and getting something to suit you see the link attached http://www.hartmann-international.com/articles/5/hope-on-a-rope.aspx

These are a series of stretches using a rope I used do them after my long runs and when the mileage increased I started doing them before my long runs too. I found them great they work every muscle in your legs. They were in Irish runner magazine last year.

scotindublin

Just over the 1/2 marathon distance done on this mornings run; still working on brining the pace down getting there. Couple of things.

1. Got my first piece of friendly encouragement from 2 lads while I was running up towards Stoneybatter.....most likely heading home from last night as it wasn't much after 0800! All good natured.

2. Great idea to have some change to pick up a bottle of water on the run....stopped off at the shop just before the entrance to the Phoenix Park on the NCR about the 1/2 mark, great bargain of 70c for a bottle of water.....you can take the boy out of Scotland etc etc!

3. Distinct lackage of bins to dispose of empty bottles in the Phoenix Park!

Actually didn't totally hate the hill out of Chapelizod towards Palerstown for once, all in all a great morning to be out there. All done and dusted before 1000.

Now time to get in the zone for The Boss!

Enjoy the day folks whatever you have planned.

Antwerp

Hey all,
Thanks for flapjack receipe, must try it later.

Scotindublin, Also managed to get a long run (10 miles) in earlier fabulous morning and met two kids en route who asked if I should run faster......somehow I don't think they would get the concept of running long runs .....slowly
Just had a lovely 99 after, best treat after a long run

aceygray

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Aceygray again it's all about what works for you and getting something to suit you see the link attached http://www.hartmann-international.com/articles/5/hope-on-a-rope.aspx

These are a series of stretches using a rope I used do them after my long runs and when the mileage increased I started doing them before my long runs too. I found them great they work every muscle in your legs. They were in Irish runner magazine last year.

Thanks Mrs Mc. I will try this after my LSR later today.

Antwerp

Forgot to mention there is a post under Athletics Running Events which confirms the new routes for the FD10 in August and HM in Sept ...hopefully the made it easier!!!!

Fbjm

I'm not too sure about the cross training, what's the best way to do that? Never even attempted it before. I mixed the plan around a bit this week and did my cross training on Friday instead of today, I swam 30 lengths. Does swimming count as cross training?

One more question, I was looking on the HHN1 website and it says there that there's no such thing as running too slow. Well I ran my 10k today as slowly as I could, now it worked as I really did feel as if I could keep going forever but is 68mins for a 10k too slow? Just don't want to start off this plan without being sure what I'm doing.

tailgunner

Fbjm wrote: »

I'm not too sure about the cross training, what's the best way to do that? Never even attempted it before. I mixed the plan around a bit this week and did my cross training on Friday instead of today, I swam 30 lengths. Does swimming count as cross training?

One more question, I was looking on the HHN1 website and it says there that there's no such thing as running too slow. Well I ran my 10k today as slowly as I could, now it worked as I really did feel as if I could keep going forever but is 68mins for a 10k too slow? Just don't want to start off this plan without being sure what I'm doing.

My understanding is that any aerobic exercise that uses different muscles to the ones you use when running is good for cross-training. Swimming is particularly good, as it's very low-impact.

It sounds like you got the pace spot on for your 10k. Feeling like you could run at that pace all day is what you're aiming for.

Fbjm

tailgunner wrote: »

It sounds like you got the pace spot on for your 10k. Feeling like you could run at that pace all day is what you're aiming for.

Brilliant, fantastic. I got home and thought 68mins might've been too slow, glad to hear I was wrong.

The Muppet

All the flapjack recipes had my mouth watering but being diabetic I went looking for a sugar free recipe . I found the one below and made them this afternoon and they are really nice. I'm not sure what nutritional value is lost by not using sugar but they are an option for anyone watching their sugar intake. The recipe say cook for 30 Minutes mined were fine after 20 minutes in the oven.

50ml Sunflower Oil
4 tablespoons Stevia
50g mixed dried fruit
100g Oats
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1 banana
METHOD

Preheat a (fan) oven to 180 degrees Celsius. Take a square non-stick baking tray, measuring 15cm x 15 cm and put it to one side ready for the mixture.

In a large bowl, combine the sunflower oil and stevia. Next add in the dried fruit, oats and ground cinnamon. Stir until coated with the oil mixture.

Peel and mash the banana and stir the mashed banana into the flapjack mixture. Once combined, fill the baking tray with the mixture and bake in the oven for 30 minutes, or until golden brown on top.

Remove from the oven and allow to cool for 10 minutes before scoring out 9 slices (3 x 3). Leave in the tray and let the flapjacks go completely cold. Gently lift out the flapjacks and put them onto a wire baking rack (I used the grill tray). At this stage you can eat them right now; they’re soft and cooked through. However I return the flapjacks to a 180 degree fan oven again for a further 10 mintues to allow them to crisp up a little. It means they keep their shape better in a lunchbox and the second bake makes them a little more crunchy.

ToriV

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

You'll know yourself if an hour/hour & half is enough but there's no harm in getting up early, eating, then going back to bed. I did this on my Sunday LSR's during last year's marathon training. Even if I didn't get back to sleep, I was still resting. I also made sure to get to bed early the night before. It wasn't the easiest to get up that early but the benefits outweighed the hardship.



+1 to this. The sooner you settle into a routine the more prepared you'll be on marathon day. Your mind and body will be not only be trained to run, it will be trained to be up, fueled and prepped too. The pre-race prep is important too and should be practiced to perfection. As you'll hear your mentors telling you...now is the time!

Great advice thanks. Followed your story last year - you are a legend. 💪

ToriV

nop98 wrote: »

Hey - organize the week the way it suits you, but make sure to keep the harder days (e.g. the LSR and the mid-week mid-long run) well separate, and ideally on the same days (roughly) every week.

Thanks! I was just wondering if it was better as it would simulate running on tired legs? I am lucky that I can organise my runs when I want this summer - so really want to take the best approach to this I can. Going to jump into this next week ... think it's going to be a scorcher. Am I the only one who dare I say it ......mmm doesn't really enjoy hot weather???

tipping

Weekly update
23rd-29th
4 runs about 24 miles
3 easy, 1 longish
Foot niggle getting better but not right yet so another easy week ahead.

nop98

All or nothing wrote: »

Hi guys,

I have been doing exams up to last week so I was catching up on the thread during the week when I finally had some free time.

I was thinking about doing DCM 2015 but thought another years running would serve me better. So here I am, I had a look at the 2015 thread at the time. I picked up lots of great advice from that which I have put into practice since.

Been running properly since summer 2014. Started off doing a few 10km races then did a few 10 mile races in Jan and March 2015.
Cork City half marathon was my first half this time last year. I then did Charleville half in Sept last year. I am training at the moment for the Cork half which is on 6th June.

Two weeks before the Cork half last year while doing a few strides at the end of an easy run, I pulled my groin muscle. I went to a physio at the time and she got me to the start line. I then went to a different physio later in 2015 and he diagnosed my issue as a hip impingement. I then took some time off running from October- Jan 16 to concentrate on strengthening exercises daily to sort my hip problem. I was also doing exams in January so didn't really have time for work,study, running and the strengthening exercises. Thankfully I think its all sorted now.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I have done a number of races mostly last year and 2014. 5km PB 22:30 (July 2015), 5 Mile PB 37:30 ( April 2015), 10 Mile PB 84 (April 2016,) Half Marathon PB 1:59 (September 2015)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Since I have gone back running properly at the end of January this year I have been running 4-5 days a week normally around 20-25 miles a week. If I had kept up the running after the half I did in September last year I would have ran over 1000 miles last year.

I usually do run specific strength training twice a week, prescribed from my physio: Lunges, single leg squats, single leg bridge, calf raises etc.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

As can be seen from the drop off in my times as the distance goes up endurance is my main weakness so Ill see how the training is going before I set a target time. Id like to finish my 1st marathon having ran the whole way around. I think I am capable of maybe 4:15-4:20, but Im not going to worry about times right now. Getting to the start line injury free will be more important for me.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

5 days a week running should be no problem for me. I will keep up the exercises the physio has me doing 2 days a week then.
I like the look of the boards plan, Its printed off now and stuck on the fridge, ready to go.

Why are you running this marathon?

I suppose its the natural progression after a few half marathons. Looking forward to the challenge.

Hello All or nothing, welcome to the thread! Another first-post poster in our thread!

Sounds like you have your plan, progression, and goals firmly in hand. I did notice the gradual trend in your PBs and I think a sensible approach towards the goals for the big day (like you say yourself) is exactly what is required.

Boards plan sound right for you - don't underestimate it as the mileage ramps up very steeply at the start. You'll have worked up plenty of endurance from the Cork HM so you're in a good spot.

A couple of things to keep in mind. Since you're already following the guidance of your physio, I'd discuss your marathon plans with him/her, to see how your proposed training plan and your excercises fit together in. Much as we try, this thread is no substitute for professional medial advice.

Second, good luck in Cork HM. Some DCM 2015 grads are doing it, too. A change to hone the race-report skills! And - 2 weeks off running afterwards, or only very gentle recovery work in the second week after.

Delighted to have you on board!

nop98

Okay, that's it. I am going to HAVE to learn how to make flapjacks this year. I will file it under "Skills I did not expect to build up post the big Four-Oh", right next to "Doing French Plaits".

Firedance wrote: »

Some super fuelling & nutrition advice there from everyone. If anyone likes bananas and nuts, this is a lovely banana bread recipe (yum!) I used to have a couple of slices in the car for when I finished my Long runs this year, you can use any nuts you like, put more in, sprinkle more on top. Just make sure the bananas are overripe. Another boardsie makes this with chocolate chips which just ads to the yum value so I've included them below

Ingredients:
8oz/225g plain flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 heaped teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
110g/4oz caster sugar
1 egg beaten
75ml/3 fl oz sunflower oil*
a few drops of vanilla extract or essence
65g/2.5 oz pecan nuts copped
4 medium-sized ripe bananas, mashed
OPtional: chocolate chips (buttons chopped up with do)

Method:
1.Sift the flour, salt, baking powder and cinnamon into a bowl and stir in the sugar.

2 Mix in the egg, sunflower oil* and vanilla but do not beat.

3.Fold in the pecans and mashed bananas (and chocolate chips if using them) using a fork. Again, do not beat.

4.Spoon into a lined 900g/2lb loaf tin and bake in an oven preheated to 180c/350f/gas mark 4 for 50-60 minutes, until the loaf is golden brown and springs back when prodded gently with your finger.

5. Leave in the tin for 10 mins, then turn onto a wire rack to cool.


*This is the original recipe but I prefer to use 3oz melted butter rather than oil.
If you like you can also sprinkle a few pecans on top and trickle over some maple or butterscotch syrup!
Sometimes it can be hard to find pecans, walnuts are a great substitute just not as sweet.

spaceylou wrote: »

@Diego - thanks for the info on the 10m route. I live in Dublin but never run in the park - think I am going to have to change that in the coming months, especially before the 10m and HM take place there.

@Firedance - thank you for the recipe looks good - shall have to try it. If anyone is interested in yummy (vaguely healthy) treats here is a recipe for date and peanut-butter balls.

200g dates (these are easier to work with if you soak for 60 - 90min before starting)
1 tbsp Crunchy Peanut Butter
2 tbsp milled seeds
1 tbsp coconut oil - melted

Dark Chocolate (optional)

Blitz the dates in food processor until as smooth as possible. Add the peanut butter, seeds and oil and mix.

Roll into balls, bit smaller than a golf ball is ideal, and freeze.

Optional step: after half an hour, melt the dark chocolate, dip the balls in the choc and freeze again.

These keep in the freezer and are great after a run or with a cuppa just cause. Unfortunately they don't travel well.

I also previously saw a recipe in the forum for chocolate milk but I can't find where I wrote it down. Essentially it was adding cocoa powder and sugar to milk but I can't remember the exact quantities - was probably to taste anyway. Cheaper than buying the premixed choc milk for anyone partial to it after a long run.

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

On the subject of food, here's my recipe for flapjacks...in case anyone wanted to, you know, bring some for after a race. Or something. Like that. Maybe.

Ingredients:

250g butter
250g brown sugar
250g honey or golden syrup (or a mix of both if you run out of honey like I did! )
500g jumbo oats
125g dried fruit, chopped (I used dates and a handful of dried cranberries)

1. Melt together the butter, sugar and honey over low heat, then stir in the dry ingredients until well combined.

2. Divide evenly and pat into 2 non-stick baking tins 20cm x 20cm

3. Bake at Gas Mark 4 1/2 / 180 degrees / 170 fan for about 20 mins or until golden - if they are thick they may take slightly longer.

4. Let them cool before you try to remove them from the tin, and once quite cool prise them away from the edges, compress the middle to help them stick then leave for a little longer. Then turn out on to a board and allow to cool fully.

5. Finally, cut them up with a sharp knife and devour!

You have to really compress them as they are cooling. They're sticky but crumbly. But yummy. Really yummy!

The Muppet wrote: »

All the flapjack recipes had my mouth watering but being diabetic I went looking for a sugar free recipe . I found the one below and made them this afternoon and they are really nice. I'm not sure what nutritional value is lost by not using sugar but they are an option for anyone watching their sugar intake. The recipe say cook for 30 Minutes mined were fine after 20 minutes in the oven.

50ml Sunflower Oil
4 tablespoons Stevia
50g mixed dried fruit
100g Oats
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1 banana
METHOD

Preheat a (fan) oven to 180 degrees Celsius. Take a square non-stick baking tray, measuring 15cm x 15 cm and put it to one side ready for the mixture.

In a large bowl, combine the sunflower oil and stevia. Next add in the dried fruit, oats and ground cinnamon. Stir until coated with the oil mixture.

Peel and mash the banana and stir the mashed banana into the flapjack mixture. Once combined, fill the baking tray with the mixture and bake in the oven for 30 minutes, or until golden brown on top.

Remove from the oven and allow to cool for 10 minutes before scoring out 9 slices (3 x 3). Leave in the tray and let the flapjacks go completely cold. Gently lift out the flapjacks and put them onto a wire baking rack (I used the grill tray). At this stage you can eat them right now; they’re soft and cooked through. However I return the flapjacks to a 180 degree fan oven again for a further 10 mintues to allow them to crisp up a little. It means they keep their shape better in a lunchbox and the second bake makes them a little more crunchy.

nop98

The Black Oil wrote: »

First lsr today, 6m. Found it generally fine. No complaints, really. Mentally, I was bored (thinking of the internet too much!) for most of it until near the end. I used a gel after about 4m. What do I need to look out for here, dodgy tummy stuff or something? I had them as back up on a cycling trip in Asia before, but was mostly on electrolytes there and left the gel until the end of the day.

Cross tomorrow - is walking OK? I think this was OK in the OP or one of the early posts in the thread.

Sounds like from the above there's an excuse to eat sweet things again.

Hey TBO. Good work. Hope the LSR pace was OK? Mental training is part of the journey, TFGR posted a great note to that effect a few pages back.

As for gels, good practice - but you don't really need them yet at these distances (I'm sure you know from your experience). Once LSR distances grow, 12M+ (or so), it becomes important to top up. But practicing carrying them, consuming them on the run, getting used to it, is good.

I would generally recommend following LSR with some recovery running (but walking is fine too). Using the legs gently while they are tired / in recovery, is great for marathon training.

nop98

kin9pin wrote: »

Just wondering about how to merge my current HM plan for Clontarf (9 July) with the start of the Boards DCM plan?

I've had a stab below, using my current plan up to the race and getting back to the Boards plan on Thursday 14 July. I take it this is ok if I run the HM at LSR pace, but what if I were to run it at race pace or maybe half easy,half race?

Boards
Week Days
Week start # Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
27/06/16 18 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 4m with 5 x 100m strides 3m easy rest, cross or 3m rec 8m lsr 2m rec
04/07/16 17 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 1m w/u, 3m pace, 1m c/d 3m rec rest, cross or 3m rec 10m lsr 2m rec
11/07/16 16 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 5m with 5 x hill sprints 4m easy rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec
18/07/16 15 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 1m w/u, 4m pace, 1m c/d 3m rec rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec

Amended
Week Days
Week start # Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
27/06/16 18 rest 3m easy 10min w/u, 4x5min threshold with 2min recovery 3m easy 10min w/u, 5x3min ,1min rec rest 40min easy, 30min HM pace
04/07/16 17 rest 10min easy, 10min pace, 10min easy rest 3m easy rest Clontarf HM rest
11/07/16 16 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy rest,cross or 3m rec 4m easy rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec
18/07/16 15 rest,cross or 3m rec 3m easy 1m w/u, 4m pace, 1m c/d 3m rec rest, cross or 3m rec 13m lsr 3m rec

Hi kin9pin,

I might get resident plan expert FBOT to chime in here, too - but my observations are:

• If you're planning to run it as LSR, then there's no real need to adapt the plan at all. You're just extending the week 2 LSR by a few miles. Somehow I doubt you will tho... (13M LSR pace will see you finish in ~2h15-20, and you ran Clontarf before in <2, right.... :rolleyes: )
• But assuming you'll get that all-too-familiar rush of blood you need more recovery afterwards. Depending on how hard you went out, I would say no running until at least Thursday, and certainly no 13 miler as LSR the weekend after. Maybe 2 easy runs Thu/Fri, rest/cross on Sat, and 8 very gentle miles on Sunday.
• Depending on how you feel after that, either follow the plan in week -15 or with some reduced mileage.

What are you weeks like -21, -20, and -19?

nop98

Antwerp wrote: »

Forgot to mention there is a post under Athletics Running Events which confirms the new routes for the FD10 in August and HM in Sept ...hopefully the made it easier!!!!

Hey Antwerp, diego_b (DCM 2015 grad) tried out the FD10 route and wrote-up a short description. A few weeks ago, I ran the new DCHM route myself. I think some parts are easier, some aren't, and they both end up with Upper Glen Road (chrislad can add expletives here). I don't think they're particularly easier or harder.

However, the point I wanted to make, is when you are in the position to clock up some miles in Dublin (either based here, or up for the weekend), why not head to the PP and try out the routes (or parts of them) yourself. It will make the day itself easier due to familiarity and it's a great place to run regardless.

We'll try and organize this for the DCM 2016 route itself once the LSRs reaches the upper ranges (we had a couple of very enjoyable LSR meet-ups last year), but if you can try it out already for the shorter races?

nop98

Fbjm wrote: »

I'm not too sure about the cross training, what's the best way to do that? Never even attempted it before. I mixed the plan around a bit this week and did my cross training on Friday instead of today, I swam 30 lengths. Does swimming count as cross training?

One more question, I was looking on the HHN1 website and it says there that there's no such thing as running too slow. Well I ran my 10k today as slowly as I could, now it worked as I really did feel as if I could keep going forever but is 68mins for a 10k too slow? Just don't want to start off this plan without being sure what I'm doing.

tailgunner wrote: »

My understanding is that any aerobic exercise that uses different muscles to the ones you use when running is good for cross-training. Swimming is particularly good, as it's very low-impact.

It sounds like you got the pace spot on for your 10k. Feeling like you could run at that pace all day is what you're aiming for.

Top marks this week to Fbjm, a well paced 10k and super cross-training. Swimming is perfect, thanks tailgunner for confirming that.

HazelBee

Hi Everyone. Delighted to be able to join the thread this year. I had contemplated it last year but as I had only had a baby in January I took the sound advice to wait. I've built up a good base again and and training for a half marathon at the end of June so I'm on track.

Have you raced before?
Lot's of 5ks, 10ks and 3 half marathons, soon to be 4)
Best 10k time 51.11 (more recently 53 mins on a very hilly course)
Half PB 1:58 in September 15

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No

How much training do you currently do ?
Generally 4 days a week. Following the Hal Higdon Novice 1 half plan at the moment. I also do a couple of mornings of strength training so usually have one rest day at the weekend.

What do you want to achieve?
Getting to the start line without injuring myself Enjoying the day. I'd love to finish under 4.20.

How many days a week can you train?
4

Why are you running this marathon?
It's been on my to do list for a long time. Dublin is special to me so running my first marathon there will be really exciting. I love the medal! Mostly I want to prove to myself that I can do it.

kabuxa

OK, this is how my week went...
I know I am/should be given out but there has been no such thing as slow run.
Monday - Gym (30 mins circuit)
Tuesday - Star of the Sea 5k...
Wednesday - Gym (30 mins circuit)
Thursday - 8 mins @5k pace (so I was told to do but I think I was slower) + 10 x 1 min with 1 min recov
Sunday - Frank Fagan Duathlon - Running only - 10 k + 3k

Next week - won't be pretty either but better... so here is my question... this is the plan

Monday - Gym (30 mins circuit)
Tuesday - Dunboyne 5 mile
Wednesday - Gym (30 mins circuit)
Thursday - whatever we are told
Saturday - IF I have done today 13k = 8 miles... I know it was split with 1h40.... should I aim for at least 8miles again?

When I look at the leaderboard I see some serious distances (not by me of course)... so I start to 'panic'.... If the marathon is almost 5 months away, should I get the 'rocket boots' on?

Another question... the heat almost killed me today.... but I always get very warm when I run... and I cannot take any more clothes! Any suggestion?

Thank you!