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Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread
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Lads, what do yiz do on those days where you wake up and just cannot be arsed? I had one of those mornings today. Still went out for a run and enjoyed it, but getting out the door was a real struggle. I always know I'd regret not going so I always go, but do the tough mornings ever go away? Iv'e been running a year and a half now and still get them occasionally.
As was said to me once.... it's easy to run when you want to run, it's when you don't want to run and you do it, that makes you mentally tough
Well done for getting out there 
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I completely agreed with you until this part, it's probably controversial but running is my kinda of "me time" and I love the solitude of running by myself. I will say though that I have being seriously thinking of going a club the last while.
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Im quite happy running up to two hours on my own after that I find it gets very hard mentality to keep going, although some routes Ive done on my own I had no option but to keep going while questioning my sanity
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Hello davinci88, welcome to the thread.
You've kinda hit the points I wanted to make already. The time is now to start restructuring your weekly routine. As with the feedback to Fdjm, change slowly towards 4-5 times a week, with one (easy) cross-training session picked out. Swimming is great, or pilates. I am personally not convinced on weights sessions (in terms of benefit for runners) but others might know better.
The more constant and regular your week becomes, the better - unfortunately, real life has the habit of getting in the way. 3 easy runs and one long run at the weekend would be a great routine to have. Work out what your paces should be and start, well, tomorrow
Can you target a race in June? Do you have any recent races under your belt?
The best of luck!
All signed up to Half Marathon as of today , only due to cash id have signed up for the lot.
Last heavy gym session today and back on the roads 3 to 4 days a week starting the 30th , am away for the next few days.. Bring it on!!0 -
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Hi, I'd like to join too! I started running about a year ago, and totally fell in love, so now the marathon is a big dream of mine.
**Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I haven't yet, somehow never really felt like it. I prefer running in quiet parts of Phoenix Park
If that matters, so far my fastest 5K was 25.59, fastest 10K 58.40, fastest half-marathon distance 2.07.47
I'd like to be a bit faster, but am trying to be patient (and I know women are generally slower).
**Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No.
**How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I had been having shin splints between February and April, so during this period I was able to do only very little running. Since the pain is gone, I gradually went back to my usual 25mi/week, 4 days of running. 2 weeks ago started the marathon training plan, at the moment I have 4 runs a week, about 28 miles, and one day cross training – for this I picked spinning classes. 2-3 times a week I do some core strengthening exercises as well.
**What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'd just like to finish it in whatever time, without any walking.
**How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
5-6 days
I follow the plan that Runcoach.com made for me based on my previous tracked runs during this past year.
**Why are you running this marathon?
Want to prove myself that I can do it!
So far I've been always running alone, and I like that a lot actually, but lately started to feel it might be good to have company for my long runs at least. You guys mentioned some club or group, where could I find these? I mean I know there are running groups around the city, but the ones I found when googled just organize certain runs that don't fit in my plan. Also all of us follow different plans, have different pace, how do you find people who you can actually run with...?
P.S. Sorry I don't know how to make the questions bold! 0 -
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Hellooo All
I did my first marathon in Copenhagen at the weekend. Here's a beast of a post with a few thoughts.
I finished it and I’m happy with that but from a running perspective, it didn’t go too well. Humbling is a good word. I’ve been trying to make sense of it all over the last couple of days...
My plan for the race was to be “conservative” and follow the 4:10 pacers (that 5:55 mins per km or 9:33 per mile). I was hoping that if I with them at 35K I was going to try and drop them. The forecasted heat was making me think about going with 4:20 pacers but I thought 4:10 was ok. After all, I did a 21K L”S”R a couple of weeks prior in 2:05….
Race report: I was suffering after 8 and completely blew up after 14…. Kilometers. Not miles. I was walking by 17K. My 21.1K split was something like 2:15.
Quick background: I started running in January 2015, aged 37, having zero fitness or athletic background. Starting with c25K and building it up, I did a HM in October in 2:00:40. Also from a bit of lifestyle change I went from 140kg to 95kg and 20 fags down to zero - I say this just to emphasise the zero fitness background. All of this should have been relevant when I decided what marathon plan to follow.
I went with the HH Novice plan for that October HM and all went well. Well as in I liked running 4 days per week, though I didn’t do any cross training (far too boring), and well in that I was hoping for sub two hours. Weekly mileage peaked at 40k. For these reasons and more, when choosing what marathon plan to follow back in December I went for HH Intermediate 1. Partly ego I guess, and partly because I liked the idea of running 5 days a week. My thinking at the time I was more likely to run a five days than to cross train 1 and run 4.
So how did the training go… Well, I had started with the intention aiming for 4 hours. That’s a planned marathon pace of 5:40 mins per km (9:10 per mile). Here’s my paces of my second week (apologies for the km paces):
5:40 - 5:51 - 5:44 - 5:36 - 05:56 - the last been the LSR. Or in miles that’s 9:10 - 9:36…..you get the idea. This was pretty much the theme for the first 8 weeks (of 18). My LSR paces during that period ranged from 5:53 (9:28) to 6:06 (9:49). There was one 19K LSR where I struggled. The last few ks were at 6:30ish(10:30) though I put this down to having pints the night before. In the first 8 weeks I missed one LSR and four midweek runs.
Over that time I was definitely becoming more jaded though. My legs were getting sore, though the paces were about the same. For the HM at week 10 (ie 10 weeks to go) in March, I was hoping for 1:52:30 (pace of 5:20 per km / 9 per mile). I started off a bit slower than intended (5:30) and remember getting stressed out with congestion. After 10k i got really tired and “slowed right down” but still came home in 2:00:21. (I’ve since re-defined what “slowed right down” means
). Technically it was a PB but my watch suggested it was a shorter distance and showed a slower average pace than the October HM.
By this time, i was thinking maybe I shouldn’t have been doing the 5 day per week HHI1 planand thought that maybe missing the occasional Saturday run (ie the difference between the novice 2 and intermediate 1 plan) wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I also thought maybe 4 hours 10 would be a more realistic goal.
Over the next 10 weeks, I missed 9 mid week runs - 4 were that Saturday run, and 5 were because of a niggle injury. More on that in a sec. The pace slowed down-ish; though more because of tiredness than intentional. There were more runs over 6 mins per km, though some under 5:40.
The long runs were ok though. There was one struggling run of 24K (which should have been 27K, but the rest went ok in that I felt ok and I kept the pace reasonable (eg 6:10 to 6:15 per km ish). The first (of two) 20 milers went really well at 5 weeks to go. Overall pace was 6:17(10mins per mile) and I intentionally did that last km of that at 5:55. That run had me buzzing.
The next week (week T-5), my paces were back up: 5:38 - 5:48 - 5:29 - 5:51 - 5:54, the last being the aforementioned 2.05 lsr at half marathon distance. The next day, the Monday, the beginning of week T-4 I woke up with two pains behind both my thighs. Over the next two weeks, the pain, particularly on my left didn’t go away. I missed 5 midweek runs. After a day or two of rest, and a lot of stretching I could run but with a limp, initially anyway. The day after it would be sore again. Went to a physio and she diagnosed it as an overused hamstring. Did I mention I wasn’t one for stretching much? I guess I should have mentioned that.
The second twenty mile LSR didn’t go well at all. After 20K I was struggling. Not because of the hamstring - I was just wrecked. I managed 24K (15 miles) before stopping. To summarise, my last 8 LSRs were (in miles)
16 - 18 - 13 - 20 - 13 - 15 - 11 - 7.5
The next week (t-2 weeks), I did the 14K Wings for Life at an LSR pace which went good. Hamstring was sore but getting manageable. When I got home I did another 4K. Felt it the next day though. Since that I haven't been able to run more than 6 mins per km really. Trust me, I've had no problem with the taper
Back to the marathon. I finished in 5:03:47. Not enjoyable. The crowds were fantastic but I spent a lot of time walking by them and looking at the ground. A real pity. It sometimes feel like the lat 18 weeks were a waste of time, though probably not. The benefit will come in October!
Things I did wrong:
- Paces way to fast
- Followed Intermediate program when I am clearly a Novice. Ended up not following any sort of plan properly.
- No cross training, lax stretching, lead to injury, lead to bad runs.
Apologies for the long post! There’s hopefully a moral in there somewhere. Bring on Dublin!0 -
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SausageDogDave wrote: »Hellooo All
I did my first marathon in Copenhagen at the weekend. Here's a beast of a post with a few thoughts.
I finished it and I’m happy with that but from a running perspective, it didn’t go too well. Humbling is a good word. I’ve been trying to make sense of it all over the last couple of days...
...
First of all - sorry to hear your debut didn't go any better. It sounds like it was a very tough day at the office. Fair play for writing it all down and sharing your experience. Your race report has been declared mandatory reading for the entire class! There are many, many learnings in your report. Once again, thank you for sharing.
Second of all, congrats on completing a marathon! That's not to be sniffed at, regardless of times and experiences. Not many folks can say they've ran a marathon, and you have!
Looks like you're still on board for Dublin. If you are, that's great - you'll be better prepared this time around! But please take 2 weeks off running, completely. Rushing back now will do far more damage then good. Looking at the positives, you have a decent block of training under your belt and those miles will eventually stand to you. Taking some time off won't damage that in the long run - the 18 week plans don't start for 4 weeks so you have plenty of time.
OK, then the "tough love" part of the reply. As I was reading your post, I kept thinking "DNS, DNS". Looking back, I don't think you'll have trouble identifying the warning signs, objectively, you probably shouldn't have even started. The 20M LSR struggle would be a huge red flag, as is feeling drained after most of your runs, and so is missing a good few training runs. Of course, we'll all miss a day here and there. But at some point, you'll simply not have enough miles in the legs - and it sounds like you were at or over the tipping point.
Not starting was probably never really an option - given the commitment to travel (I assume), but scaling back dramatically on your goals and expectations for the day was. I am still in awe with the 2014 mentor, Ososlo, who decided the morning of her first marathon to adjust her aspirations downwards due to circumstances, and execute on that revised plan successfully.
This is very, very hard - you've given so much to get yourself to the start-line that you feel almost entitled to that goal-time. It doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Realistic goal setting is also really important. Based on a 2 hour HM, I would have suggested 4:30 at best, and work your training paces out from there. Hindsight is obviously 20/20
You have already identified that most, if not all your LSRs were ran at a pace that was faster than your planned pace for the day. Thanks for highlighting it, I can't stress enough that the one and only thing to take away from this thread is to slow down. How slow, is up to each individual to work out. Running at this pace takes a lot of practice and patience. Once you work out your paces (based on realistic, conservative goals for the day itself), slow down even further. A real broken record, so I am.
When I read about your 13M LSR in 2h05, I had to think about a personal humbling experience last year: I completed a rather grueling solo hilly 19M LSR and smugly posted the stats on last years thread. Within a minute FBOT (experienced marathoner, and fellow co-mentor last and this year, too!) replied: "too fast!". I was slightly peeved at first but he went through his calculations with us, and obviously he was right. I took it on board.
B.t.w. SausageDogDave, I am not really talking to you personally, but the entire class..!
You identify a couple of other areas for improvements, I can only recommend to look at each area, experiment, and work out what will work for you. There is no one-size fits all. Routines that work for some, don't do it for others. For example, I wouldn't be a great stretcher either, but did force myself into a routine of post-run static stretches, foam-rolling once-twice a week and Epsom-salt baths regularly. Now is the time - actually, your first-time experience will really stand to you since you know what to work on.
I am not convinced that the 4 or 5 days a week is the real problem. 4 days is plenty, a 5th recovery run won't hurt as long as you run at the right pace. Most of your runs are easy, and you need to see them as building up strength, as opposed to spending strength like you would in a full-tilt race. The key is to find a plan, and stick to it. The plans have been tried and tested, and executed many times.
So - take some time off running and chalk it up as a lesson learnt.
When you're ready to come back, run a couple of short runs at proper slow pace. Ridiculously slow. Not-worth-putting-the-runners-on-for slow. Feeling-like-a-right-dork slow. I-am-hardly-overtaking-the-lady-out-for-a-brisk-walk kinda slow. Now is the time.
Also, I recommend running without a watch / timing device your first couple of times. If you can't do without the stats afterwards, strap it around your ankle or tape over the display - but break the instant feedback loop and run by feel only. Try it. You have to get tuned into the right pace by listening to your body and breathing. As guidance, you want to come home from running 8-10k (5-6M) and be completely not out of breath when you arrive back home. Fully able to hold a conversation, read the paper, you name it. Get your enjoyment in running back, so that you're ready to hit the training program refreshed and inspired.
Once again, congrats on your first, I hope you had a tasty Danish beer afterwards, and give yourself a huge pat on the back completing your first marathon. Thanks for sharing, and I hope you give us all insight over the coming weeks how you're taking your experiences on board and turning them into positives!0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Worrying to see myself with the least amount ran at the highest pace... I should really heed the advice to run slow!
Yes you should. Unless you want to be the first one to prove the rule yet again. It happens every year.
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![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
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