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Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread
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This is me some mornings:
http://irunwithit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/golam_thumb.jpg
(On my phone so I can only add it as a link rather than an image)0 -
If anyone is having a love/hate relationship with running at this stage I'd question if are they ready to attempt a marathon. I don't think it should feel like something you have to do, more like something you want to do. Those long slow runs when you start hitting 30 km are more mentality challenging than physical. I think having the right mindset is as important as the physical side of it. My advice now would be for any "lone" runners here to start to look at joining a club or group. If that doesn't suit try and get a friend or two roped into running DCM.0
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Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »If anyone is having a love/hate relationship with running at this stage I'd question if are they ready to attempt a marathon. I don't think it should feel like something you have to do, more like something you want to do. Those long slow runs when you start hitting 30 km are more mentality challenging than physical. I think having the right mindset is as important as the physical side of it. My advice now would be for any "lone" runners here to start to look at joining a club or group. If that doesn't suit try and get a friend or two roped into running DCM.
Personally I love running and always look forward to it, but there are those odd days when you feel physically or mentally drained and just want to stay in bed or curl up on the couch. I got the impression that's what he was talking about, rather than a love/hate relationship in general. Maybe I have it wrong...0 -
Hi All,
I aim to run the marathon in October. I have only ran a few 5k races the most recent being the Dublin Staff Relay where I ran 21:20. I have started with the HHN1 program. I have not tried anything over 10k. Do you think it is reasonable and achievable to run a marathon?
Thanks0 -
Lads, what do yiz do on those days where you wake up and just cannot be arsed? I had one of those mornings today. Still went out for a run and enjoyed it, but getting out the door was a real struggle. I always know I'd regret not going so I always go, but do the tough mornings ever go away? Iv'e been running a year and a half now and still get them occasionally.
As was said to me once.... it's easy to run when you want to run, it's when you don't want to run and you do it, that makes you mentally toughWell done for getting out there
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Deleted User wrote: »Feck going for a run in the morning :pac: I way prefer after work
Haha I'm the opposite man! If I don't get it over with immediately it's hanging over me all day, I need to get it done and forget about it first thing :P0 -
krahsrekop wrote: »Hi All,
I aim to run the marathon in October. I have only ran a few 5k races the most recent being the Dublin Staff Relay where I ran 21:20. I have started with the HHN1 program. I have not tried anything over 10k. Do you think it is reasonable and achievable to run a marathon?
Thanks
Hey krahsrekop - welcome to the thread, there's a couple of questions in the opening post, have a read through these and post your answers here. It's hard to judge otherwise. B.t.w. that's a fine 5k PB.0 -
Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »My advice now would be for any "lone" runners here to start to look at joining a club or group. If that doesn't suit try and get a friend or two roped into running DCM.
I completely agreed with you until this part, it's probably controversial but running is my kinda of "me time" and I love the solitude of running by myself. I will say though that I have being seriously thinking of going a club the last while.
Going back to Fbjm's question; The best advice I can give is ask yourself how you'll feel in a hour's time having, A; stayed in and done nothing or B; got up and gone out for a run. I found that tended to give me the kick in the back side I needed.
Also try to make things easier, I know when I was training last October for DCM and right through the winter, it was horrible I'd get home from work, sit down for a quick mug of tea with the intention heading out afterwards but half the time ended up not going. In the end I resorted to laying out my running gear before I left for work that morning, having a snack on the train my and literally walking in the front door, getting changed and heading straight back out.
That said I went for a run this evening I'd planned for two laps of the town where I live but know as soon as I'd left the house it was going to be tough as my hip was playing up so in the end cut it short, not a great run by any standard but I'm looking of the positive that I got 6 km in instead of turning around at the end of my street and just heading back in.0 -
I completely agreed with you until this part, it's probably controversial but running is my kinda of "me time" and I love the solitude of running by myself. I will say though that I have being seriously thinking of going a club the last while.
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Im quite happy running up to two hours on my own after that I find it gets very hard mentality to keep going, although some routes Ive done on my own I had no option but to keep going while questioning my sanity0 -
Hello davinci88, welcome to the thread.
You've kinda hit the points I wanted to make already. The time is now to start restructuring your weekly routine. As with the feedback to Fdjm, change slowly towards 4-5 times a week, with one (easy) cross-training session picked out. Swimming is great, or pilates. I am personally not convinced on weights sessions (in terms of benefit for runners) but others might know better.
The more constant and regular your week becomes, the better - unfortunately, real life has the habit of getting in the way. 3 easy runs and one long run at the weekend would be a great routine to have. Work out what your paces should be and start, well, tomorrow
Can you target a race in June? Do you have any recent races under your belt?
The best of luck!
All signed up to Half Marathon as of today , only due to cash id have signed up for the lot.
Last heavy gym session today and back on the roads 3 to 4 days a week starting the 30th , am away for the next few days.. Bring it on!!0 -
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,493 CMod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 17215
I had swapped around Tuesdays and Wednesdays of the HHN1 spreadsheet I downloaded, but think I'm going to back to the original set up as it'll probably suit me to have my Tuesdays as 3m all the way through. Slightly concerned that I'm mostly on concrete at the moment.
Question time. I've thought of doing the first few weeks of the plan from now until the week of June 27th, then going back and restarting the plan from that day on. Or is that silly?Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.
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Hi, I'd like to join too!
I started running about a year ago, and totally fell in love, so now the marathon is a big dream of mine.
**Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I haven't yet, somehow never really felt like it. I prefer running in quiet parts of Phoenix Park
If that matters, so far my fastest 5K was 25.59, fastest 10K 58.40, fastest half-marathon distance 2.07.47
I'd like to be a bit faster, but am trying to be patient (and I know women are generally slower).
**Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No.
**How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I had been having shin splints between February and April, so during this period I was able to do only very little running. Since the pain is gone, I gradually went back to my usual 25mi/week, 4 days of running. 2 weeks ago started the marathon training plan, at the moment I have 4 runs a week, about 28 miles, and one day cross training – for this I picked spinning classes. 2-3 times a week I do some core strengthening exercises as well.
**What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'd just like to finish it in whatever time, without any walking.
**How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
5-6 days
I follow the plan that Runcoach.com made for me based on my previous tracked runs during this past year.
**Why are you running this marathon?
Want to prove myself that I can do it!
So far I've been always running alone, and I like that a lot actually, but lately started to feel it might be good to have company for my long runs at least. You guys mentioned some club or group, where could I find these? I mean I know there are running groups around the city, but the ones I found when googled just organize certain runs that don't fit in my plan. Also all of us follow different plans, have different pace, how do you find people who you can actually run with...?
P.S. Sorry I don't know how to make the questions bold!0 -
The Black Oil wrote: »I had swapped around Tuesdays and Wednesdays of the HHN1 spreadsheet I downloaded, but think I'm going to back to the original set up as it'll probably suit me to have my Tuesdays as 3m all the way through. Slightly concerned that I'm mostly on concrete at the moment.
Question time. I've thought of doing the first few weeks of the plan from now until the week of June 27th, then going back and restarting the plan from that day on. Or is that silly?
That should be fine. It will get you into the swing of it.0 -
Just realised that it is possible to have groups on Garmin connect. Is there any interest in having a novices group? I notice there was one in 2014 but not last year.
If there is interest, how do we set up a group? Couldn't find a way to do it, but am on app at the moment so maybe when using website it will be obvious.0 -
Just realised that it is possible to have groups on Garmin connect. Is there any interest in having a novices group? I notice there was one in 2014 but not last year.
If there is interest, how do we set up a group? Couldn't find a way to do it, but am on app at the moment so maybe when using website it will be obvious.
Don't see the harm.
Here's one for anyone interested.0 -
Hellooo All
I did my first marathon in Copenhagen at the weekend. Here's a beast of a post with a few thoughts.
I finished it and I’m happy with that but from a running perspective, it didn’t go too well. Humbling is a good word. I’ve been trying to make sense of it all over the last couple of days...
My plan for the race was to be “conservative” and follow the 4:10 pacers (that 5:55 mins per km or 9:33 per mile). I was hoping that if I with them at 35K I was going to try and drop them. The forecasted heat was making me think about going with 4:20 pacers but I thought 4:10 was ok. After all, I did a 21K L”S”R a couple of weeks prior in 2:05….
Race report: I was suffering after 8 and completely blew up after 14…. Kilometers. Not miles. I was walking by 17K. My 21.1K split was something like 2:15.
Quick background: I started running in January 2015, aged 37, having zero fitness or athletic background. Starting with c25K and building it up, I did a HM in October in 2:00:40. Also from a bit of lifestyle change I went from 140kg to 95kg and 20 fags down to zero - I say this just to emphasise the zero fitness background. All of this should have been relevant when I decided what marathon plan to follow.
I went with the HH Novice plan for that October HM and all went well. Well as in I liked running 4 days per week, though I didn’t do any cross training (far too boring), and well in that I was hoping for sub two hours. Weekly mileage peaked at 40k. For these reasons and more, when choosing what marathon plan to follow back in December I went for HH Intermediate 1. Partly ego I guess, and partly because I liked the idea of running 5 days a week. My thinking at the time I was more likely to run a five days than to cross train 1 and run 4.
So how did the training go… Well, I had started with the intention aiming for 4 hours. That’s a planned marathon pace of 5:40 mins per km (9:10 per mile). Here’s my paces of my second week (apologies for the km paces):
5:40 - 5:51 - 5:44 - 5:36 - 05:56 - the last been the LSR. Or in miles that’s 9:10 - 9:36…..you get the idea. This was pretty much the theme for the first 8 weeks (of 18). My LSR paces during that period ranged from 5:53 (9:28) to 6:06 (9:49). There was one 19K LSR where I struggled. The last few ks were at 6:30ish(10:30) though I put this down to having pints the night before. In the first 8 weeks I missed one LSR and four midweek runs.
Over that time I was definitely becoming more jaded though. My legs were getting sore, though the paces were about the same. For the HM at week 10 (ie 10 weeks to go) in March, I was hoping for 1:52:30 (pace of 5:20 per km / 9 per mile). I started off a bit slower than intended (5:30) and remember getting stressed out with congestion. After 10k i got really tired and “slowed right down” but still came home in 2:00:21. (I’ve since re-defined what “slowed right down” means). Technically it was a PB but my watch suggested it was a shorter distance and showed a slower average pace than the October HM.
By this time, i was thinking maybe I shouldn’t have been doing the 5 day per week HHI1 planand thought that maybe missing the occasional Saturday run (ie the difference between the novice 2 and intermediate 1 plan) wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I also thought maybe 4 hours 10 would be a more realistic goal.
Over the next 10 weeks, I missed 9 mid week runs - 4 were that Saturday run, and 5 were because of a niggle injury. More on that in a sec. The pace slowed down-ish; though more because of tiredness than intentional. There were more runs over 6 mins per km, though some under 5:40.
The long runs were ok though. There was one struggling run of 24K (which should have been 27K, but the rest went ok in that I felt ok and I kept the pace reasonable (eg 6:10 to 6:15 per km ish). The first (of two) 20 milers went really well at 5 weeks to go. Overall pace was 6:17(10mins per mile) and I intentionally did that last km of that at 5:55. That run had me buzzing.
The next week (week T-5), my paces were back up: 5:38 - 5:48 - 5:29 - 5:51 - 5:54, the last being the aforementioned 2.05 lsr at half marathon distance. The next day, the Monday, the beginning of week T-4 I woke up with two pains behind both my thighs. Over the next two weeks, the pain, particularly on my left didn’t go away. I missed 5 midweek runs. After a day or two of rest, and a lot of stretching I could run but with a limp, initially anyway. The day after it would be sore again. Went to a physio and she diagnosed it as an overused hamstring. Did I mention I wasn’t one for stretching much? I guess I should have mentioned that.
The second twenty mile LSR didn’t go well at all. After 20K I was struggling. Not because of the hamstring - I was just wrecked. I managed 24K (15 miles) before stopping. To summarise, my last 8 LSRs were (in miles)
16 - 18 - 13 - 20 - 13 - 15 - 11 - 7.5
The next week (t-2 weeks), I did the 14K Wings for Life at an LSR pace which went good. Hamstring was sore but getting manageable. When I got home I did another 4K. Felt it the next day though. Since that I haven't been able to run more than 6 mins per km really. Trust me, I've had no problem with the taper
Back to the marathon. I finished in 5:03:47. Not enjoyable. The crowds were fantastic but I spent a lot of time walking by them and looking at the ground. A real pity. It sometimes feel like the lat 18 weeks were a waste of time, though probably not. The benefit will come in October!
Things I did wrong:
- Paces way to fast
- Followed Intermediate program when I am clearly a Novice. Ended up not following any sort of plan properly.
- No cross training, lax stretching, lead to injury, lead to bad runs.
Apologies for the long post! There’s hopefully a moral in there somewhere. Bring on Dublin!0 -
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There is a group on Strava, if you register in Strava you can link it to Garmin Connect and it will automatically load anything you upload to garmin connect. (I'm not sure about it being over previous runs you've done).
It's under clubs, if you look up "DCM novices 2016" you should find it.0 -
Chrislad has the strava group set up.0
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Useful Resources
What|Link
Dublin Marathon Official Site|link
Strava Club for DCM 2016 Novices (chrislad)|link
Training Programs (Boards.ie and HHN1)|link
Online mileage tracker|tba
Questionnaire for novice novices
If you consider joining the thread, please spend a few minutes telling us something about yourself:
- Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
- Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
- How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
- What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
- How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
- Why are you running this marathon?
Useful posts in this thread
What|Link
Opening Post|link
Training Paces (part 1)|link
Why run slow? (Myles Splitx)|link
Stretching 101 (Firedance)|link
Training plans and non-goal races|link
Novice threads from previous years
Year|Link
2015 (Dubgal72)|2015
2014 (Ososlo)|2014
2013 (career_move)|2013
2012 (Younganne)|2012
2011 (Raycun)|2011
2010 (Rainbow Kirby)|2010
2009 (amadeus)|2009
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Hi I posted earlier but I missed the original post with the questions to answer.
Have you raced before? I have done a few 5k races my PB is 20:30 and most recent race was the Dublin Staff relay where I ran 21:20 for the 5k
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No
How much training do you currently do ? At the moment I do cross training 3 times a week which includes core strength and do a bit of kettlebells also. I have only really started to run about 15k a week in the last couple of weeks but this week I have started the HHN1 program. I thought it might be good to get a bit of a head start
What do you want to achieve? First things first I would like complete the course but an aim would be around the 4hr mark. I would hope to get a more definitive answer on timing when I am a few weeks into the training and I see how I am coping
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? I can train most days of the week and I plan on using the HHN1 program with Monday morning run evening cross training. Tues rest. Wed morn run. Thurs morn run and eve cross training. Fri rest. Sat long run. Sun rest
Why are you running this marathon?I am running the marathon because I want to test myself and accomplish something that I can be proud of.0 -
So finally got around to this - had crap wifi to get sorted!
So a bit about me! I started running last year having been talked into running the WMM or charity. I was fairly fit with lots of boxercise, TRX and spinning but never ran. In fact, i hated even the idea of it. Started training and about 5 weeks into a couch to 10k plan, something happened! i started to love it, and it has been a love affair ever since. Now I learned the lessons the hard way - running too much (bad),running too fast (bad), racing my training (bad) and that running means running slooooooooow and then some (V bad). I have cut these out now and have thankfully been injury free (touch wood).
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Dont race much, but took part in local fundraising 5k and 10 ks.
PB 5k 26:08
PB 10K 53:45
Trained for a HM that I couldnt take part in, but ran the distance 21k in 2:08.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
4 days running - 1 short speed session, 1 medium easy, 1 short easy and 1 long slow run. Cross train twice a week - TRX and strenght training focusing on core and glutes.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I just want to finish. Its such an epic achievement and I have nothing but respect for the distance and those that complete it.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 4 days is fine and I was looking at the HHN1 as this time i just want to get around, and wantto still run!
Why are you running this marathon? I want to challenge myself and i love to run.
Looking forwarad to being part of this and thanks so much to the mentors! All advice will be gratefully accepted!0 -
I'm an ex-garmin connect user now a converted Strava user.. Connect is pure sh!te in comparison. Strava is much more intuitive, has better content and a cleaner way of showing it.
As far as I remember you can actually export all your past runs from Connect, importing to strava is easy then all you need to do is upload the zip file that connect spits out. For future runs you can link connect and strava and it imports the runs automatically.. Use both for a week and see which you prefer.0 -
The Muppet wrote: »
Worrying to see myself with the least amount ran at the highest pace... I should really heed the advice to run slow!0 -
Interesting report SausageDogDave I think we've both a lot in common. You've kinda scared the be jaysus out of me as I hope to follow a intermediate plan too. Anyway its something to take on board, thanks for that.0
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SausageDogDave wrote: »Hellooo All
I did my first marathon in Copenhagen at the weekend. Here's a beast of a post with a few thoughts.
Thanks for the insight SausageDog. This gives me a lot to think about because it sounds like you set out on that marathon plan at a similar place to where I am.
I've a bit of a dilemma now because I planned on doing the Boards plan, which could lead me down the same road you found yourself on. Whereas the alternative - HHN1 - looks far too easy for me (at least for the first 10 or 12 weeks).0 -
SausageDogDave wrote: »Hellooo All
I did my first marathon in Copenhagen at the weekend. Here's a beast of a post with a few thoughts.
Apologies for the long post! There’s hopefully a moral in there somewhere. Bring on Dublin!
Thanks for posting that SDD I certainly take a lot from it regarding keeping expectations real and the importance of proper preparation.
Message to self must stretch more.0 -
SausageDogDave wrote: »Hellooo All
I did my first marathon in Copenhagen at the weekend. Here's a beast of a post with a few thoughts.
I finished it and I’m happy with that but from a running perspective, it didn’t go too well. Humbling is a good word. I’ve been trying to make sense of it all over the last couple of days...
...
First of all - sorry to hear your debut didn't go any better. It sounds like it was a very tough day at the office. Fair play for writing it all down and sharing your experience. Your race report has been declared mandatory reading for the entire class! There are many, many learnings in your report. Once again, thank you for sharing.
Second of all, congrats on completing a marathon! That's not to be sniffed at, regardless of times and experiences. Not many folks can say they've ran a marathon, and you have!
Looks like you're still on board for Dublin. If you are, that's great - you'll be better prepared this time around! But please take 2 weeks off running, completely. Rushing back now will do far more damage then good. Looking at the positives, you have a decent block of training under your belt and those miles will eventually stand to you. Taking some time off won't damage that in the long run - the 18 week plans don't start for 4 weeks so you have plenty of time.
OK, then the "tough love" part of the reply. As I was reading your post, I kept thinking "DNS, DNS". Looking back, I don't think you'll have trouble identifying the warning signs, objectively, you probably shouldn't have even started. The 20M LSR struggle would be a huge red flag, as is feeling drained after most of your runs, and so is missing a good few training runs. Of course, we'll all miss a day here and there. But at some point, you'll simply not have enough miles in the legs - and it sounds like you were at or over the tipping point.
Not starting was probably never really an option - given the commitment to travel (I assume), but scaling back dramatically on your goals and expectations for the day was. I am still in awe with the 2014 mentor, Ososlo, who decided the morning of her first marathon to adjust her aspirations downwards due to circumstances, and execute on that revised plan successfully.
This is very, very hard - you've given so much to get yourself to the start-line that you feel almost entitled to that goal-time. It doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Realistic goal setting is also really important. Based on a 2 hour HM, I would have suggested 4:30 at best, and work your training paces out from there. Hindsight is obviously 20/20
You have already identified that most, if not all your LSRs were ran at a pace that was faster than your planned pace for the day. Thanks for highlighting it, I can't stress enough that the one and only thing to take away from this thread is to slow down. How slow, is up to each individual to work out. Running at this pace takes a lot of practice and patience. Once you work out your paces (based on realistic, conservative goals for the day itself), slow down even further. A real broken record, so I am.
When I read about your 13M LSR in 2h05, I had to think about a personal humbling experience last year: I completed a rather grueling solo hilly 19M LSR and smugly posted the stats on last years thread. Within a minute FBOT (experienced marathoner, and fellow co-mentor last and this year, too!) replied: "too fast!". I was slightly peeved at first but he went through his calculations with us, and obviously he was right. I took it on board.
B.t.w. SausageDogDave, I am not really talking to you personally, but the entire class..!
You identify a couple of other areas for improvements, I can only recommend to look at each area, experiment, and work out what will work for you. There is no one-size fits all. Routines that work for some, don't do it for others. For example, I wouldn't be a great stretcher either, but did force myself into a routine of post-run static stretches, foam-rolling once-twice a week and Epsom-salt baths regularly. Now is the time - actually, your first-time experience will really stand to you since you know what to work on.
I am not convinced that the 4 or 5 days a week is the real problem. 4 days is plenty, a 5th recovery run won't hurt as long as you run at the right pace. Most of your runs are easy, and you need to see them as building up strength, as opposed to spending strength like you would in a full-tilt race. The key is to find a plan, and stick to it. The plans have been tried and tested, and executed many times.
So - take some time off running and chalk it up as a lesson learnt.
When you're ready to come back, run a couple of short runs at proper slow pace. Ridiculously slow. Not-worth-putting-the-runners-on-for slow. Feeling-like-a-right-dork slow. I-am-hardly-overtaking-the-lady-out-for-a-brisk-walk kinda slow. Now is the time.
Also, I recommend running without a watch / timing device your first couple of times. If you can't do without the stats afterwards, strap it around your ankle or tape over the display - but break the instant feedback loop and run by feel only. Try it. You have to get tuned into the right pace by listening to your body and breathing. As guidance, you want to come home from running 8-10k (5-6M) and be completely not out of breath when you arrive back home. Fully able to hold a conversation, read the paper, you name it. Get your enjoyment in running back, so that you're ready to hit the training program refreshed and inspired.
Once again, congrats on your first, I hope you had a tasty Danish beer afterwards, and give yourself a huge pat on the back completing your first marathon. Thanks for sharing, and I hope you give us all insight over the coming weeks how you're taking your experiences on board and turning them into positives!0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »Worrying to see myself with the least amount ran at the highest pace... I should really heed the advice to run slow!
Yes you should. Unless you want to be the first one to prove the rule yet again. It happens every year..
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