Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Maximus Alexander

If you're running your easy / recovery runs at the right paces I really don't think the 4 days in a row will cause you a problem to be honest. If it does you might be running too hard. I did a race, a recovery and three easy runs on 5 consecutive days last week and I actually felt fresher during the last easy run than at any other point in the 5 days!

This has never happened to me before because I used to always run easy runs too fast.

aceygray

Weekly update:

Monday - cross
Tuesday - 5 miles moderate pace
Wednesday - 12 x 200m intervals
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 45min tempo run
Saturday - 3.5 miles easy
Sunday - 8.5 mile LSR

I did all my runs this week, except my intervals, without headphones. I'm actually starting to prefer it that way

I didn't do any stretching though, and my legs definitely feel a bit tighter. So my resolution for the next few weeks is more regular stretching!

budhistmonk

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If you're running your easy / recovery runs at the right paces I really don't think the 4 days in a row will cause you a problem to be honest. If it does you might be running too hard. I did a race, a recovery and three easy runs on 5 consecutive days last week and I actually felt fresher during the last easy run than at any other point in the 5 days!

This has never happened to me before because I used to always run easy runs too fast.

Thanks Maximus. So far I feel really good running 4 days in a row. Really watching my pace & HR a lot more than before on all my runs. Was just wondering if this will be ok when the miles go up but sounds like you think I'll be fine.

Very encouraging to hear that about running your easy / rec runs at the right pace.

The Muppet

budhistmonk wrote: »

I've been getting some base work in for the plan kick-off next week. I'm going to try the boards plan. I'd been regularly getting in 4 runs a week with one of these being my LSR on a Sat. I've upped this to 5 runs a week over the last few weeks which has been fine for me but my question is regarding when to fit in the 5th run, especially when the miles increase, to ensure I don't get injured.

The problem I have is that from a logistics perspective I will struggle to get out on Sundays for a recovery run after my LSR the day before. So what I have been doing for the last few weeks is:

Mon - Easy
Tue - Rec
Wed - PMP
Thur - Easy/Rec
Fri - Rest
Sat - LSR
Sun - Rest

What I am worried about is the 4 days running in a row from Mon - Thur when the miles increase. Would I be better taking Thurs off and doing an easy/rec on Fri instead? Since a Sun recovery run won't work for me this is the only alternative I can think of.

You thoughts, input and any alternatives greatly accepted and appreciated.

I'd give the schedule below a go and see how it worked if it were me the reason being you are running your recovery run after a rest followed by an easy day you might benefit more from having the recocery run the day after your pmp run, just my 2c



Monday easy
Tuesday easy
Wednesday pmp
Thursday recovery
Friday rest
Sat Lsr
Sunday rest

budhistmonk

The Muppet wrote: »

I'd give the schedule below a go and see how it worked if it were me the reason being you are running your recovery run after a rest followed by an easy day you might benefit more from having the recocery run the day after your pmp run, just my 2c



Monday easy
Tuesday easy
Wednesday pmp
Thursday recovery
Friday rest
Sat Lsr
Sunday rest

Thanks M (struggling to call you Muppet :-) ) Makes sense having the recovery after the PMP with easy runs on Mon & Tue. Sounds like you're ok with 4 days running in a row. Cheers for this.

paddydriver

budhistmonk wrote: »

I've been getting some base work in for the plan kick-off next week. I'm going to try the boards plan. I'd been regularly getting in 4 runs a week with one of these being my LSR on a Sat. I've upped this to 5 runs a week over the last few weeks which has been fine for me but my question is regarding when to fit in the 5th run, especially when the miles increase, to ensure I don't get injured.

The problem I have is that from a logistics perspective I will struggle to get out on Sundays for a recovery run after my LSR the day before. So what I have been doing for the last few weeks is:

Mon - Easy
Tue - Rec
Wed - PMP
Thur - Easy/Rec
Fri - Rest
Sat - LSR
Sun - Rest

What I am worried about is the 4 days running in a row from Mon - Thur when the miles increase. Would I be better taking Thurs off and doing an easy/rec on Fri instead? Since a Sun recovery run won't work for me this is the only alternative I can think of.

You thoughts, input and any alternatives greatly accepted and appreciated.

Think boards.ie plan only has a Monday run on possibly 2-3 weeks out of the 18. Predominantly Tues-Thurs and then LSR on Sat. Mon and Fri are Rest and Sunday is Cross Train. HTH..;)

Actually.. was looking at wrong sheet in the XLS:o.. Yep can see what you mean. Glad I looked at that again before kick off!

Coffee Fulled Runner

tipping wrote: »

Hi CFR. Have you picked a plan yet?
I'm still completely undecided on what plan to do but we're probably similar enough background wise (Well you're faster!)

Yeah the coach at my club has put together a plan for us which is specific for each of our goals. There are a good few of us doing Dublin and a few doing Amsterdam which is great for the long runs and taining sessions. I'll try and update what I'm doing here

The Muppet

budhistmonk wrote: »

The Muppet wrote: »

I'd give the schedule below a go and see how it worked if it were me the reason being you are running your recovery run after a rest followed by an easy day you might benefit more from having the recocery run the day after your pmp run, just my 2c



Monday easy
Tuesday easy
Wednesday pmp
Thursday recovery
Friday rest
Sat Lsr
Sunday rest

Thanks M (struggling to call you Muppet :-) ) Makes sense having the recovery after the PMP with easy runs on Mon & Tue. Sounds like you're ok with 4 days running in a row. Cheers for this.

No probs I'm Tom if you or anyone else here prefer that either is grand with me really .

I'm fine with 4 consecutive days so far the last day being a recovery run . It does make sense to have the recovery run after a harder session I do mine Sunday after my lsr.

bucketybuck

Does anybody else have any issues with your stride and trying to run at a slower pace?

I can run slower of course but it feels very ungainly, I don't feel that comfortable and I do wonder if the different angle/way my feet are hitting the ground could lead to niggly injuries?

Last year I had been flying up until June but my marathon dreams ended after one week of HH1 because of a sudden injury. This year I have been flying again but then went out tonight slow and I feel a few little niggles in my knee and groin.

Not looking for medical advice, but any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

The Black Oil

Last week.

Tue: 4.02 mi. Time: 1:00:09. 14:58 min/mi, Avg Pace
Weds: 3.05 mi. Time: 47:41. 15:38 min/mi, Avg Pace
Thurs: 3.12 mi. Time: 44:45. 14:20 min/mi, Avg Pace
Sat: 9.68 mi. Time: 2:16:28. 14:06 min/mi, Avg Pace

Still not sure on this pace business if I want to hit 4 hours. :P Long way off. Anyway, last week was all grand. Saturday was the longest I've ever run. Wehay. I was pretty distracted for the first 4 miles or so, I'd say. I had been in work training new people and that was churning away in my mind, as that social and mental exercise always tends to do. Once I hit mile 5 onwards I was more aware I was running. Happy enough with it overall, body fine. Soft pace.

Got a nod from a chap I passed about a mile from the end. Then our paths crossed again. He said "good man, keep it going", and he had a DCM 2015 t-shirt, I think. So that was nice. He booted on ahead, anyway. 10 miles on the agenda for this Saturday, then falling back to HH1 from scratch next week. Let the fun commence. We'll be official novices then. :pac:

dcm 2016

Hi guys best of luck to everybody. Im running my first DCM this year excited and nervous. Im running 3 years ran 3 half marathons few shorter races so this year decided to go for it. Im following My Asics Plan and run 4 days a week going ok so far. Looking forward to hearjng how everybody is getting on on their journey. Jen

Antwerp

The Black Oil wrote: »

Got a nod from a chap I passed about a mile from the end. Then our paths crossed again. He said "good man, keep it going", and he had a DCM 2015 t-shirt, I think. So that was nice. He booted on ahead, anyway. 10 miles on the agenda for this Saturday, then falling back to HH1 from scratch next week. Let the fun commence. We'll be official novices then. :pac:

That's gas, I know exactly what you mean about being distracted, as that was me earlier as first few miles was just thinking about work and stuff then for the next five or so miles I passed the same runners twice as we were all doing various circuits of the park, by the end of it we were all smiling at each other and nodding away. Ended up doing my longest run this year of 11miles so was delighted. It's amazing the buzz you get when other runners nod or smile, as you forget about the mileage and just run. Hope we are still this positive next week ..lol

paddydriver

I've done my last 5 LSR's up via Foxrock so it distracts me looking at the nice houses.. then my mind goes back to work and why I must work harder to try have a house like that some day.. then reality sets in and its back to focusing on my pace:p

El Caballo

The Black Oil wrote: »

Last week.

Tue: 4.02 mi. Time: 1:00:09. 14:58 min/mi, Avg Pace
Weds: 3.05 mi. Time: 47:41. 15:38 min/mi, Avg Pace
Thurs: 3.12 mi. Time: 44:45. 14:20 min/mi, Avg Pace
Sat: 9.68 mi. Time: 2:16:28. 14:06 min/mi, Avg Pace

Still not sure on this pace business if I want to hit 4 hours. :P Long way off.

I think you are taking the slowdown motto too far TBO:). While slow is good, too slow is on the extreme as you won't get much benefit from it. You need to find a middle ground and for a person with sub-4 ambitions, 15 minute miles would be really way too easy. I missed it earlier in the thread as I've only being able to jump in for a peek every so often but what are your PB's in other distances? That would help a lot in giving you a better idea of where to be.

conor_mc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Does anybody else have any issues with your stride and trying to run at a slower pace?

I can run slower of course but it feels very ungainly, I don't feel that comfortable and I do wonder if the different angle/way my feet are hitting the ground could lead to niggly injuries?

Last year I had been flying up until June but my marathon dreams ended after one week of HH1 because of a sudden injury. This year I have been flying again but then went out tonight slow and I feel a few little niggles in my knee and groin.

Not looking for medical advice, but any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

I struggled with slower paces early in the plan last year too. I guess it comes down to balance, etc. being a lot easier when you're striding away, but when you slow down you have to concentrate on maintaining good form. The good news is it will come easily enough eventually, and all the niggly muscles will be gradually strengthening up to support your form.

El Caballo

conor_mc wrote: »

I struggled with slower paces early in the plan last year too. I guess it comes down to balance, etc. being a lot easier when you're striding away, but when you slow down you have to concentrate on maintaining good form. The good news is it will come easily enough eventually, and all the niggly muscles will be gradually strengthening up to support your form.

True and another issue is that people who are used to running their easy runs too fast will have underdeveloped slow twitch muscle fibres which is why it can feel difficult to run slower. The marathon is an event that needs strong slowtwitch muscle fibers as these fibres are built for endurance while another fiber called fast twitch are built for power and speed. Just like anything else that is neglected in life, these fibers will weaken and diminish when they are not trained which is why many people will struggle initially with running slower, they haven't developed these fibers to be strong yet and that is one of the principles on why the long slow run will benefit you come the day of the marathon, you will have trained these muscles to get stronger and be able to endure.

tailgunner

Late update for last week:

13th June - 20th June
Monday - Rest
Tuesday - 6 miles easy
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - 8 miles w/ 5 @ MP
Friday - Rest
Saturday - 4 miles easy
Sunday - Rest
Monday- 12 miles easy

I was away last week, but managed to get out a few times, and just about squeezed in the long run done yesterday - though that one was a major struggle for some reason. Happy enough with the 30 miles for the week (well, 8 days).

aquinn

bucketybuck wrote: »

Does anybody else have any issues with your stride and trying to run at a slower pace?

I can run slower of course but it feels very ungainly, I don't feel that comfortable and I do wonder if the different angle/way my feet are hitting the ground could lead to niggly injuries?

Last year I had been flying up until June but my marathon dreams ended after one week of HH1 because of a sudden injury. This year I have been flying again but then went out tonight slow and I feel a few little niggles in my knee and groin.

Not looking for medical advice, but any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

Hey bucketybuck,

I was told before that to focus on your form when running slowly on a recovery run and for your posture and legs not to thud and plod along just because you were going a lot slower than feels natural. Continue to run tall, breath and relax. Don't thud along the pavement.

babaracus

The Black Oil wrote: »

Last week.

Tue: 4.02 mi. Time: 1:00:09. 14:58 min/mi, Avg Pace
Weds: 3.05 mi. Time: 47:41. 15:38 min/mi, Avg Pace
Thurs: 3.12 mi. Time: 44:45. 14:20 min/mi, Avg Pace
Sat: 9.68 mi. Time: 2:16:28. 14:06 min/mi, Avg Pace

Still not sure on this pace business if I want to hit 4 hours. :P Long way off. Anyway, last week was all grand. Saturday was the longest I've ever run. Wehay. I was pretty distracted for the first 4 miles or so, I'd say. I had been in work training new people and that was churning away in my mind, as that social and mental exercise always tends to do. Once I hit mile 5 onwards I was more aware I was running. Happy enough with it overall, body fine. Soft pace.

Got a nod from a chap I passed about a mile from the end. Then our paths crossed again. He said "good man, keep it going", and he had a DCM 2015 t-shirt, I think. So that was nice. He booted on ahead, anyway. 10 miles on the agenda for this Saturday, then falling back to HH1 from scratch next week. Let the fun commence. We'll be official novices then. :pac:

Maybe I have missed something regarding your training and if I have forgive me.

Your long slow run at the weekends should be just that, long and slow. In fact this was the fastest pace of your 4 runs for the week. It was still too slow though (unless I have missed something). That should be at 10 - 11 minute mile pace approx for a sub 4 although time on the feet is more important than speed for the LSR.

Of your other 3 runs they are definitely too slow or at least some of them are. 2 should be at pace or near PMP. Particularly over short distances like 3 and 4 miles. I don't see any benefit to running your midweek runs at near 15 minute mile pace when you need 9:09 minute mile pace for a sub 4. So maybe one or two recovery runs during the week but also 2 runs at or near PMP. Otherwise sub 4 is not going to happen.

Maximus Alexander

I've decided I'm going to challenge myself and tackle the Boards plan instead of HHN2. Yeah, it looks a lot tougher, but it also looks doable and I reckon if I get through it unscathed it will leave me much better prepared. Feck it, it'll be interesting.

paddydriver

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I've decided I'm going to challenge myself and tackle the Boards plan instead of HHN2. Yeah, it looks a lot tougher, but it also looks doable and I reckon if I get through it unscathed it will leave me much better prepared. Feck it, it'll be interesting.

So is Boards plan is more difficult then HHN2? - I was mixed up thinking Boards plan was HHN1 with some modifications.

Based on my last few weeks or base building I think I may be up to the Boards plan.. that's assuming no injuries!!:eek:

Maximus Alexander

paddydriver wrote: »

So is Boards plan is more difficult then HHN2? - I was mixed up thinking Boards plan was HHN1 with some modifications.

Based on my last few weeks or base building I think I may be up to the Boards plan.. that's assuming no injuries!!:eek:

Yeah the mileage on the Boards plan is a good bit higher and ramps up much more quickly.

Thing is I'm already ahead of HHN2 in terms of mileage and LSR and it wouldn't catch up to me until week 6; what's the point in going too easy on myself? I want to improve dammit! With the Boards plan I'll be entering the great unknown by week 3 which sounds more exciting.

Antodoran136

I'm having a really sore pain on the inside of my right foot it's very tender in around that whole area sometimes goes around to a burning sensation at the back of my ankle too. Any tips on how to sort that out its not too bad when it's warmed up .. It's later on it's like it's inflamed once finished any tips

This Fat Girl Runs

El Caballo wrote: »

I think you are taking the slowdown motto too far TBO:). While slow is good, too slow is on the extreme as you won't get much benefit from it. You need to find a middle ground and for a person with sub-4 ambitions, 15 minute miles would be really way too easy. I missed it earlier in the thread as I've only being able to jump in for a peek every so often but what are your PB's in other distances? That would help a lot in giving you a better idea of where to be.

+1 to this. You're in my pace territory but I only run my easy runs and LSRs at the slow pace. Like El Caballo said, there needs to be a mix of paces. It's the only way I've been able to PB my races this year! And yes, that pace is definitely too slow for a sub-4 hour marathon. I trained at that pace all last year (the point was to finish the marathon, not run it fast) and I crossed the line at close to 7 hours.

Your mentors here can help you figure out the paces you should be running at but as one of the slowest runners on boards I'd say you definitely shouldn't be running that slow for a fast marathon.

The Black Oil

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback - appreciate it. Went out for 3 miles this evening. Time: 27:51 and 9:09 min/mi Avg Pace.

Now, if you'll excuse me, there are some strawberries which require eating.

babaracus

Antodoran136 wrote: »

I'm having a really sore pain on the inside of my right foot it's very tender in around that whole area sometimes goes around to a burning sensation at the back of my ankle too. Any tips on how to sort that out its not too bad when it's warmed up .. It's later on it's like it's inflamed once finished any tips

Is the pain on the side of the foot or underneath on the sole?

Best advice is to get a good physio to look at it.

tang1

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback - appreciate it. Went out for 3 miles this evening. Time: 27:51 and 9:09 min/mi Avg Pace.

Now, if you'll excuse me, there are some strawberries which require eating.

That's to fast, that's 3 miles at MP basically for you. Your Easy/LSR pace should be between 10.30-11min/miles in my opinion.

babaracus

tang1 wrote: »

That's to fast, that's 3 miles at MP basically for you. Your Easy/LSR pace should be between 10.30-11min/miles in my opinion.

He had done 4 runs last week all at 14-15 minute pace. Should he not be doing 1 LSR at 10:30 - 11 min pace, 2 short runs at the same pace and at least 1 other run at PMP or with some PMP element?

tang1

babaracus wrote: »

He had done 4 runs last week all at 14-15 minute pace. Should he not be doing 1 LSR at 10:30 - 11 min pace, 2 short runs at the same pace and at least 1 other run at PMP or with some PMP element?

That's what I said, Easy/LSR should be 10.30-11min/miles. I wouldn't be doing a run solely at MP, I'd integrate it into the LSR in some way. Do a run at Steady pace instead, say 10-10.20min/miles building the distance up as the plan goes on, great for building endurance & strength.

The Black Oil

tang1 wrote: »

That's to fast, that's 3 miles at MP basically for you. Your Easy/LSR pace should be between 10.30-11min/miles in my opinion.

Thought it might be, alright. Meant to note it in my previous post. Will keep 10.30-11 in mind for this coming weekend's lsr.

El Caballo wrote: »

I think you are taking the slowdown motto too far TBO:). While slow is good, too slow is on the extreme as you won't get much benefit from it. You need to find a middle ground and for a person with sub-4 ambitions, 15 minute miles would be really way too easy. I missed it earlier in the thread as I've only being able to jump in for a peek every so often but what are your PB's in other distances? That would help a lot in giving you a better idea of where to be.

I don't have a lot of data to put forward here. As in, park run at 23:12...that was in March.

This was some of the feedback I received before.

joesoap5

tang1 wrote: »

That's what I said, Easy/LSR should be 10.30-11min/miles. I wouldn't be doing a run solely at MP, I'd integrate it into the LSR in some way. Do a run at Steady pace instead, say 10-10.20min/miles building the distance up as the plan goes on, great for building endurance & strength.

I find your advice confusing to be honest. You tell him in an earlier post to run 10.30 - 11 for LSR. Then you tell him to incorporate marathon pace into the LSR and run his easy runs at 10.30 11.

I think someone needs to give OP his four paces for each run and not contradict or back track the paces for sub 4.

It would also be good for other runners after the sub 4 as well to have a definite pace for each type of run.

Bunny Colvin

Hello guys. I came across this thread this evening while eating my dinner (it was on the front page, I am completely new to this forum)
I'm not too sure if I am too late for the party but something grabbed me! I was thinking to myself over the last few weeks that I would love to train for a marathon and then I saw this thread!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I have never raced before. I think I done a 5k when I was six years of age but can't remember my PB, there was a lot of walking anyway

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

Sometimes, but we're talking distances in and around 10k. It depends on the day, sometimes I have more left in the gas tank than other days.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

I 'graduated' C25k at the start of the year. I've been running on and off since but in the last month I have stepped it up and got a little more dedicated. I'd be comfortable over 10k (slow pace but can complete it. My PB in distance came this evening actually, just over 14k without stopping.

I have access to a gym handy enough so swimming could be an option. Also, I have been looking at taking up kick boxing, I'm not sure would you integrate that into marathon training but there's definitely a correlation between the two? I would have no problem getting started with that tbh.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?


Just completing a marathon would be the goal. If I didn't complete it this year, I don't think I would be disappointed. It would come in its own time. I keep telling myself when I'm 'out' that it's not about pace but distance. Completing it would be unreal and a half decent time would be great but as a novice, times haven't bothered me to date.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

Pretty much any evening of the week. I haven't had time to look at the plans in detail but I will study them soon when I have a bit of time.

Why are you running this marathon?

The last few months have made me realise that running really is a key thing for my mental health. Without going into things too much, I have suffered from depression and lack of self-esteem in the year's gone by. In saying that, while there is still plenty of work to do on that front, I have made decent strides in the last year: I've quit smoking (my lungs feel good now, some turnaround to where I was last year), I've lost two stone (I've roughly under one more to go before I reach my ideal weight but I would just love to give that last stone the proverbial two fingers and just run it off).

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I'd love to train for this just to give me some structure and discipline - something that can be elusive for me at times. Maybe I wouldn't be hungover on a Sunday if I knew I had a big distance to do that morning. I missed the boat this season, I was going to go back playing football after a lengthy absence but it never happened. My thinking is, why not keep the head down and train for this, for no-one but myself.

Thanks for reading!

El Caballo

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thought it might be, alright. Meant to note it in my previous post. Will keep 10.30-11 in mind for this coming weekend's lsr.



I don't have a lot of data to put forward here. As in, park run at 23:12...that was in March.

This was some of the feedback I received before.

OK, I'd be wary of McMillian times for a runner who doesn't have a big base behind them because while speed might get you a decent 5k time, you will be lacking in the endurance department so right now, you will have a big fade as the distance gets longer, this is natural of course because you are a new runner and what you will be training to improve so I see those McMillian paces as too aggressive for where are now, a 5k alone is not a very accurate measure of how a new runner will cope with long distances. Like Tang above, I'd go with more or less the 10:30ish mark for pace, this may slowly progress as you get fitter but just lock into your mind what that effort feels like and don't get too obsessed with pace going forward, some days will be good and other days will be tough so the pace of your runs may alter according to how you feel on any given day but that pace would be a good starting point for you to start off with.

What plan are you using?

The Black Oil

What plan are you using?

HHN1.

aquinn

Antodoran136 wrote: »

I'm having a really sore pain on the inside of my right foot it's very tender in around that whole area sometimes goes around to a burning sensation at the back of my ankle too. Any tips on how to sort that out its not too bad when it's warmed up .. It's later on it's like it's inflamed once finished any tips

Try GENTLY rolling out the foot with a tennis ball to see if it helps it.

kittyclaws

Just out of the physio's office. I was getting strange cramping in my calves for the last few days, so booked in, I was expecting to be told I'd damaged them again
In a nutshell she thinks I'm doing too much. Between nightly foam-rolling & stretching, running 5 times a week, 3 gym classes, swimming, pilates, yeah now I look at it all written down it is too much :S
So for the next 4 weeks I'm only allowed run four times a week and replace my 5th run with a swim. No gym classes except pilates. Oh and two complete rest days a week - how will I cope!!!

The Muppet

Well Monday next is looming, I have decided that I will be using the boards 2016 modified plan and hoping that will get me to the start line in one piece.

I'm feeling positive while still being respectful to the challenges that lie ahead but can't wait to get into the plan properly.

The best of luck to all my fellow novices.

nop98

budhistmonk wrote: »

I've been getting some base work in for the plan kick-off next week. I'm going to try the boards plan. I'd been regularly getting in 4 runs a week with one of these being my LSR on a Sat. I've upped this to 5 runs a week over the last few weeks which has been fine for me but my question is regarding when to fit in the 5th run, especially when the miles increase, to ensure I don't get injured.

The problem I have is that from a logistics perspective I will struggle to get out on Sundays for a recovery run after my LSR the day before. So what I have been doing for the last few weeks is:

Mon - Easy
Tue - Rec
Wed - PMP
Thur - Easy/Rec
Fri - Rest
Sat - LSR
Sun - Rest

What I am worried about is the 4 days running in a row from Mon - Thur when the miles increase. Would I be better taking Thurs off and doing an easy/rec on Fri instead? Since a Sun recovery run won't work for me this is the only alternative I can think of.

You thoughts, input and any alternatives greatly accepted and appreciated.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If you're running your easy / recovery runs at the right paces I really don't think the 4 days in a row will cause you a problem to be honest. If it does you might be running too hard. I did a race, a recovery and three easy runs on 5 consecutive days last week and I actually felt fresher during the last easy run than at any other point in the 5 days!

This has never happened to me before because I used to always run easy runs too fast.

+1 - thanks Max.

I'd encourage you to take it week-by-week - slot in the runs when you can.

A couple of the rules-of-thumb are worth repeating:

• If you need to skip a run, skip an easy/rec run. In other words, don't bother with a Tuesday recovery run following a Monday easy run. I'd rather pencil in a rec run the morning after your LSR.
• Don't run too fast.
• Follow hard days with easy days or rest.
• Don't run too fast.
• If you feel you need a break, take a break.
• Lastly, don't run too fast

nop98

bucketybuck wrote: »

Does anybody else have any issues with your stride and trying to run at a slower pace?

I can run slower of course but it feels very ungainly, I don't feel that comfortable and I do wonder if the different angle/way my feet are hitting the ground could lead to niggly injuries?

conor_mc wrote: »

I struggled with slower paces early in the plan last year too. I guess it comes down to balance, etc. being a lot easier when you're striding away, but when you slow down you have to concentrate on maintaining good form. The good news is it will come easily enough eventually, and all the niggly muscles will be gradually strengthening up to support your form.

El Caballo wrote: »

True and another issue is that people who are used to running their easy runs too fast will have underdeveloped slow twitch muscle fibres which is why it can feel difficult to run slower. The marathon is an event that needs strong slowtwitch muscle fibers as these fibres are built for endurance while another fiber called fast twitch are built for power and speed. Just like anything else that is neglected in life, these fibers will weaken and diminish when they are not trained which is why many people will struggle initially with running slower, they haven't developed these fibers to be strong yet and that is one of the principles on why the long slow run will benefit you come the day of the marathon, you will have trained these muscles to get stronger and be able to endure.

aquinn wrote: »

Hey bucketybuck,

I was told before that to focus on your form when running slowly on a recovery run and for your posture and legs not to thud and plod along just because you were going a lot slower than feels natural. Continue to run tall, breath and relax. Don't thud along the pavement.

Thank you guys, excellent discussion.

Dubgal last year repeatedly focused on the running tall, upright, regular breathing, smiling, and relaxing. We were all struggling with slowing down and feeling comfortable doing so - it was the exact same last year.

Another reason to run without headphones, in my opinion. You will be able to concentrate on your running form so much better - especially when you get a little tired. I run a lot with a buddy who's not a natural runner (in terms of physique). Once he gets tired, he slumps over and he doesn't seem to notice that at all. My most important contribution to his improvement is to constantly remind him to run tall, upright, focus on running from this hips / glutes, and slow down. It's remarkable how easier he runs, even when tired, once someone gives him a kick up the proverbial.

So, concentrate hard during your easy runs. Once a week, if you feel like it, throw in a set of strides towards the end of your run (accelerate for 10-15 seconds, then slow down, and recover, and go again). This will automatically force you to use better running form, too.

Lastly, a strong core is invaluable, this is why I really enjoy pilates to complement marathon training.

aceygray

I'm thinking I might also need to see a physio. I have a mild enough achey pain and tightness in my right foot for the past while. It doesn't really affect my running - if anything it seems to loosen out as I run, but I'm still a bit worried about it. I'd like to catch it before it gets any worse.

Can anyone recommend a physiotherapist in the Dublin 15 area?

kittyclaws

In a moment of insanity I've just signed up for DCM :eek:

I was going to wait until the last possible minute, but I think mentally knowing I have a number will scare me help me train better.
That was the scariest thing I've ever done
Think I'll go cry in a corner now :eek:

All or nothing

nop98 wrote: »

Thank you guys, excellent discussion.

Dubgal last year repeatedly focused on the running tall, upright, regular breathing, smiling, and relaxing. We were all struggling with slowing down and feeling comfortable doing so - it was the exact same last year.

Another reason to run without headphones, in my opinion. You will be able to concentrate on your running form so much better - especially when you get a little tired. I run a lot with a buddy who's not a natural runner (in terms of physique). Once he gets tired, he slumps over and he doesn't seem to notice that at all. My most important contribution to his improvement is to constantly remind him to run tall, upright, focus on running from this hips / glutes, and slow down. It's remarkable how easier he runs, even when tired, once someone gives him a kick up the proverbial.

So, concentrate hard during your easy runs. Once a week, if you feel like it, throw in a set of strides towards the end of your run (accelerate for 10-15 seconds, then slow down, and recover, and go again). This will automatically force you to use better running form, too.

Lastly, a strong core is invaluable, this is why I really enjoy pilates to complement marathon training.

Just to add to the running form topic my physio has always emphasised that the correct cadence ( the amount of steps you take per minute) is important for good running form and injury prevention.
They say the optimum cadence is 180 steps per minute. This is hard to do when running at 10 min mile pace or slower. He set me a target of trying to have a cadence of at least 172 steps per minute for all runs.
To measure this is very simple,while running count the amount of steps you are taking on one foot in a minute and multiply by two. What I would do while out for a LSR ( or any run) as a means of checking my form each mile ask myself: am I ruining tall? Is my breathing ok? Then count my steps every few miles. If nothing else this passes away some time for you. You will find that as you are counting your steps, your form will improve as you are consciously thinking about it.

Since I am now using the correct cadence ( I was doing around 166 steps per minute) I have had no injuries or niggles. That's just my two cents and what works well for me.

paddydriver

aceygray wrote: »

I'm thinking I might also need to see a physio. I have a mild enough achey pain and tightness in my right foot for the past while. It doesn't really affect my running - if anything it seems to loosen out as I run, but I'm still a bit worried about it. I'd like to catch it before it gets any worse.

Can anyone recommend a physiotherapist in the Dublin 15 area?

Exact same.. doesn't bother me running. Seems to be in differing parts of foot at different times so thinking its muscular but cannot be sure. Doesn't affect running but can feel it alot. Old age and old bones me thinks. Had stress fracture in left ankle last year so always worried it may be same in different part of that same foot. That said, I absolutely couldn't run on the fracture whereas with this its no problem running and have done circa 160k in last few weeks.

If you get good physio in Dublin 15 then let me know.. my office is in Ballycoolin;)

Maximus Alexander

Try foam rolling your calves and achilles. Seems to ease most foot niggles for me at least.

paddydriver

Thanks Maximus, I foam roll most days but I find the rolling a workout in itself.. and the wife and kids laugh at me:D.. But do agree that it helps. I will try do it more after this evenings run. Gonna get out before the match and will then put ice on it whilst watching it.. hopefully some beer on ice too!!

kabuxa

I cant quote... anyway... Physio in D15... I believe Austin in NAC is really good. Never been there but so I have heard. He is tough but good.

kabuxa

Maximus Alexander wrote:

Try foam rolling your calves and achilles. Seems to ease most foot niggles for me at least.

I can quote 😂😂😂 Anyway.... how do you foamroll the Aquiles?

ToriV

All or nothing wrote: »

Just to add to the running form topic my physio has always emphasised that the correct cadence ( the amount of steps you take per minute) is important for good running form and injury prevention.
They say the optimum cadence is 180 steps per minute. This is hard to do when running at 10 min mile pace or slower. He set me a target of trying to have a cadence of at least 172 steps per minute for all runs.
To measure this is very simple,while running count the amount of steps you are taking on one foot in a minute and multiply by two. What I would do while out for a LSR ( or any run) as a means of checking my form each mile ask myself: am I ruining tall? Is my breathing ok? Then count my steps every few miles. If nothing else this passes away some time for you. You will find that as you are counting your steps, your form will improve as you are consciously thinking about it.

Since I am now using the correct cadence ( I was doing around 166 steps per minute) I have had no injuries or niggles. That's just my two cents and what works well for me.

Second that on the correct cadence and preventing injury. I thought longer strides was better for covering ground and of course hurt myself!! I try to hit the 180 and that's a great technique for stride,form and passing the time on LSR. Last week I tried to see how many Johnny Depp movies I could name!!

Maximus Alexander

kabuxa wrote: »

I can quote 😂😂😂 Anyway.... how do you foamroll the Aquiles?

Same way as you do your calf. It's between the calf and the heel bone.

ToriV

Quick query on paces, if that's ok! I am currently running my LSR at between 10.20 and 11.00 mins per mile and my easy runs at between 9.50 and 10. 15. Is that ok? My aim is primarily to finish, but 4h 30 would be great. All advice very welcome - thanks guys!