Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

nop98

Of course Antwerp. There's a few questions in the first post that all Novices answer. You'd be very welcome!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
•How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
•Why are you running this marathon?

Mrs Mc

kin9pin wrote: »

I ran my lsr this morning without earphones. Didn't mean to, just forgot to charge them. Have to say I enjoyed the peace so I'll do that from now on.
I slowed down my run, averaged 10:11 pace (McMillan has my long run at 9:20-10:37) and felt great.

Dubgal suggested we loose the headphones as part of our training last year. I nearly cried at the thought of not having headphones but I have to say you get used to it its all about being body aware listening to your breathing being aware of your surroundings and it definately makes you more aware of your posture and if you have any twinges or niggles you need to be aware of. Never use them anymore so would definately recommend as part of training and you miss all the atmosphere if you wear them on the big day.

Mrs Mc

scotindublin wrote: »

I better have a look on the cooking/baking thread then!

DenisB and TFGR make a mean flapjack !

kabuxa

Gillo wrote: »

Enjoy tomorrow, I love the idea of Wings for Life and was very tempted to sign up but after a marathon last week I knew I'd have to take it pretty easy.

Thanks!!! It was tough in that heat but BRILLIANT!!! When people say the hills start in Bray, is a big-fat lie ;o)) There are hills all the way

Extrasupervery

Wings For Life was tough. Wasn't expecting that heat.

With regards to headphones...I'm inclined to listen to you all as you speak from experience, but I find it hard to lose them. Even if I'm running comfortably I sound like Darth Vader. I had several serious asthma attacks as a child and I'm left with exercise-induced asthma, and listening to myself breathe really freaks me out, however silly it sounds. If I'm training nice and slow in the Phoenix Park I can keep it relatively even, but during events, especially in cold weather or with hills, I sound awful and hate listening to it. Today during WFL a lady running beside me stopped us both and asked if I was okay, when I took out both my earphones I realised that I sounded awful and gasping and reassured her that I was fine I just sounded awful...I like being able to mask that with some audio. Helps me focus on my feet rather than my lungs.

kabuxa

Today I brought my earphones for the W4L as my friends where bringing them... in case I was left alone.
For some reason, lately if I a run alone, I 'allow' myself to stop when I think I need to. When I run with other people I never stop.. it is like challenging each other. In stopping not speed ;o)))))) But I never run with earphones.
Today I didn't need them. It is great to listen to everything that is around. But @Extrasupervery I think you have a point in your case...
I have to say I love running listening to music... ideally they would have music on speaker all the way ;o)))

The Black Oil

I'm a podcast addict and I listen to them whilst running, but yeah, I can see the negatives, particularly for racing. Walking through the Spanish countryside during the Camino, half of the experience is absorbing the beautiful landscape with your eyes and ears.

Gillo

Glad to hear Kabuxa. Ah I like hills, I love the challenge of running distances, then throw in a hill or two me I'm happy out. I'll definitely sign up next year but was conscious that this week was all about recovery.

Re earphones; I rarely run with them, partly safety and part running is my time and I love the peace and quiet of hitting the roads. For a race itself, you need to be able to hear marshalls and more importantly in an emergency you don't want to be the one holiding up an ambulance by not hearing it. You'll also miss the crowds cheering you on and the random chats with other runners (by pure coincidence I spent a fair stretch of the Limerick marathon chatting with one of last year's other graduates).

Murph_D

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Wings For Life was tough. Wasn't expecting that heat.

With regards to headphones...I'm inclined to listen to you all as you speak from experience, but I find it hard to lose them. Even if I'm running comfortably I sound like Darth Vader. I had several serious asthma attacks as a child and I'm left with exercise-induced asthma, and listening to myself breathe really freaks me out, however silly it sounds. If I'm training nice and slow in the Phoenix Park I can keep it relatively even, but during events, especially in cold weather or with hills, I sound awful and hate listening to it. Today during WFL a lady running beside me stopped us both and asked if I was okay, when I took out both my earphones I realised that I sounded awful and gasping and reassured her that I was fine I just sounded awful...I like being able to mask that with some audio. Helps me focus on my feet rather than my lungs.

That's an interesting take on it - I still think you'd be better off tuning into the sound of your own breathing though, perhaps your breathing technique would improve if you were more aware of it. Why deprive yourself of this sensory feedback? Especially as you say you were running comfortably, so the breathing sound is possibly something you can do something about. Why tune yourself out from this, and from your fellow runners? It's so easy to run without music, try it a bit more, especially during a race, and feel the increased buzz you will get from being in touch with your surroundings.

The Muppet

Have to admit I'd miss my music on my lsr. I dont listen to music on sessions or when I'm running with other people but when alone on the long slower runs I enjoy the music.

aceygray

Did a longish run this morning and tried to go slow, slow, slow. Did almost 9 miles and averaged 9.03 per mile. The McMillan calculator gave me 8.34 - 9.52, so I was happy enough, but it is hard to constantly watch your pace and remind yourself to slow down!

I was definitely overdressed for the heat! Will know for next time. It was my first time running along the royal canal - lovely scenic route. I'll take the advice here and try running without headphones next time. I never wear them in races, but pretty much always do on my training runs. I don't think I'll stop using them completely, but maybe once a week on my long runs.

Extrasupervery

Murph_D wrote: »

That's an interesting take on it - I still think you'd be better off tuning into the sound of your own breathing though, perhaps your breathing technique would improve if you were more aware of it. Why deprive yourself of this sensory feedback? Especially as you say you were running comfortably, so the breathing sound is possibly something you can do something about. Why tune yourself out from this, and from your fellow runners? It's so easy to run without music, try it a bit more, especially during a race, and feel the increased buzz you will get from being in touch with your surroundings.

I will definitely give it a go, I'll test it out in training. RE safety - I remember two instances in events recently (one a 10k, one a 10 miler) when I had to alert nearby runners who weren't wearing headphones to the presence of an ambulance trying to pass us. I heard it and was aware of it, they weren't. Maybe they were 'in the zone'. I don't have music blaring, I don't always have both earphones in, I just have it up enough so that I can concentrate on that over my breathing.

As I become fitter and train more appropriately I do hope my breathing will improve. I have run several events without earphones - notably IMRA and trail runs - but as these are so uneven pace and breathing wise anyhow it's a different kettle of fish. I also will often remove my headphones for the first and last stretch of an event or at a point where there's lots of stewards and supporters, out of respect, to hear information and to soak up the buzz.

I will experiment with and without audio as I run but I won't rule out continuing to run with earphones in, I really wouldn't have gotten this far if I hadn't been able to mask my breathing in the early days when it was really ragged and I was really fearful.

Antwerp

Hi Nop98,

Thanks for that, this is my third attempt at replying as internet keeps crashing.

Of course Antwerp. There's a few questions in the first post that all Novices answer. You'd be very welcome!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5km - Padraig Pearse - today 27.50
5 mile - Terenure - May 2015 - 48.46
10km - DLR Bay 10km - August 2015 1.01 (annoyed as ran quicker in 2014)
10 mile - Frank Duffy 2015 (&2014) 1.42
HM - Wexford April 2015 - 2.18 (Dublin HM Sept 2014 2.28)

Signed up for Terenure, DLR 10km and Race Series & DCM.

•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? NO

•How much training do you currently do ?
2014 - April started running park runs then completed Race Series
2015 - Terenure 5 mile, DLR 10km & Franky Duffy 10 mile
2016 - Jan started training as no running since August 2015, slowly building up just running 1/2 a week then 2/3 times but now running 3/4 times roughly 18 miles a week. Longest run 10 miles end of April.

•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time 4.30 and realistic finishing time >4.30!!!!!
•How many days a week can you train? 3/4 now but will up it to 5 in June.
And what plan do you intend to follow? Major concern .....looking for variety however yet to decide which plan as have Irish Runner/David Carrie, Hal Hig Novice 2 and MyAsics here on my desk so open to advice please.

•Why are you running this marathon? To complete a personal challenge.

Thanks a mill

nop98

Extrasupervery wrote: »

I will definitely give it a go, I'll test it out in training. RE safety - I remember two instances in events recently (one a 10k, one a 10 miler) when I had to alert nearby runners who weren't wearing headphones to the presence of an ambulance trying to pass us. I heard it and was aware of it, they weren't. Maybe they were 'in the zone'. I don't have music blaring, I don't always have both earphones in, I just have it up enough so that I can concentrate on that over my breathing.

As I become fitter and train more appropriately I do hope my breathing will improve. I have run several events without earphones - notably IMRA and trail runs - but as these are so uneven pace and breathing wise anyhow it's a different kettle of fish. I also will often remove my headphones for the first and last stretch of an event or at a point where there's lots of stewards and supporters, out of respect, to hear information and to soak up the buzz.

I will experiment with and without audio as I run but I won't rule out continuing to run with earphones in, I really wouldn't have gotten this far if I hadn't been able to mask my breathing in the early days when it was really ragged and I was really fearful.

Hey Extrasupervery - yours is an interesting case. I would agree with Murph that the extra feedback might help you control your breathing better - remember, you will be running slooow a lot so your breathing mightn't necessary get elevated.

Do try, as you already suggest, to experiment running without and see if you can actually bring the sound-effects to a level that's more palatable. But that is for you to judge, your circumstances are quite unique - keep us informed if you want.

Good stuff battling through that heat today, it certainly looked tough. I was along the stretch between Shankill and Bray and the runners were fully exposed to the sun - it was hot!

nop98

Antwerp wrote: »

Hi Nop98,

Thanks for that, this is my third attempt at replying as internet keeps crashing.

Of course Antwerp. There's a few questions in the first post that all Novices answer. You'd be very welcome!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5km - Padraig Pearse - today 27.50
5 mile - Terenure - May 2015 - 48.46
10km - DLR Bay 10km - August 2015 1.01 (annoyed as ran quicker in 2014)
10 mile - Frank Duffy 2015 (&2014) 1.42
HM - Wexford April 2015 - 2.18 (Dublin HM Sept 2014 2.28)

Signed up for Terenure, DLR 10km and Race Series & DCM.

•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? NO

•How much training do you currently do ?
2014 - April started running park runs then completed Race Series
2015 - Terenure 5 mile, DLR 10km & Franky Duffy 10 mile
2016 - Jan started training as no running since August 2015, slowly building up just running 1/2 a week then 2/3 times but now running 3/4 times roughly 18 miles a week. Longest run 10 miles end of April.

•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time 4.30 and realistic finishing time >4.30!!!!!
•How many days a week can you train? 3/4 now but will up it to 5 in June.
And what plan do you intend to follow? Major concern .....looking for variety however yet to decide which plan as have Irish Runner/David Carrie, Hal Hig Novice 2 and MyAsics here on my desk so open to advice please.

•Why are you running this marathon? To complete a personal challenge.

Thanks a mill

Hello Antwerp - your responses have made it through at the third time of asking, welcome onboard!

You have a good couple of races ahead - are you doing all race series events? Our plans cater for 2 races (FD10 and DCHM), and I would encourage one more 10k/5M race before battening down the hatches, and focus on the marathon training (note to self: write post about running races during the training cycle).

You seem to be in a good routine already. Keep increasing your weekly mileage, slowly, and definitely 4 times a week. All miles will stand to you when we start our programs.

Re plan: did you have a look at the plans we are following? See the first post. HHN1 looks a little light for you - and the boards maybe a little daunting (but you have 6 weeks to build towards it).

nop98

aceygray wrote: »

Did a longish run this morning and tried to go slow, slow, slow. Did almost 9 miles and averaged 9.03 per mile. The McMillan calculator gave me 8.34 - 9.52, so I was happy enough, but it is hard to constantly watch your pace and remind yourself to slow down!

Well done! :cool: Excellent start at slowing down (when our plans start, I'll get the sharp pencils out to ensure that it's really slow enough!)..

Gillo

As I said I actually ran last year, however was very late coming to last years thread and still feel there's a lot more I could learn so I'm going to stick around here this year, learn more and hopefully can share some of my experiences and what I've learnt from last year. Not a proper novice but hopefully people don't mind.

In answer to the questions;
Have you raced before?
10km 50:48
Half Marathon 1:48:56
Marathon 4:05:50

Do you still need to take walk breaks?
In training no, I did in the last marathon and walked about 2km at around 37km (guinness the night before really didn't help:eek:)

How much training do you currently do?
Recently it's been running 4-5 times a week, 1-2 gyms sessions and 1 swim a week. Also stretching or yoga once a day. For May I'll be training as and when I want. I followed a plan for Dublin and pretty much jumped into another play for the Great Limerick Run so am "burnt out" with training plans, I decided earlier this year that in May I would just run as and when I wanted, distance would also depend on the mood, basically running for the love of running.

What do I want to achieve?
Goal 1; a sub 3:45:00
Goal 2; a sub 4:00:00
Goal 3; finish without a walking break

How many days a week can I train?
Just running four or five days. This will be supplemented with gym / core work, swimming and yoga. This probably sounds like a lot, but i know my limitations and when to pull back and rest.

Why am I running this marathon?
I love the challenge of pushing myself physically, also the setting a goal, breaking it down and gradually achieving it. I may at a later stage decide to do it for charity. Finally the feeling when you spot the finish line, close in on it and then cross it, I'm sure Nop98 knows what I mean:D:D:D

Training plan
I'll be following the Asics plan

Kennyg71

Extrasupervery wrote: »

I will definitely give it a go, I'll test it out in training. RE safety - I remember two instances in events recently (one a 10k, one a 10 miler) when I had to alert nearby runners who weren't wearing headphones to the presence of an ambulance trying to pass us. I heard it and was aware of it, they weren't. Maybe they were 'in the zone'. I don't have music blaring, I don't always have both earphones in, I just have it up enough so that I can concentrate on that over my breathing.

As I become fitter and train more appropriately I do hope my breathing will improve. I have run several events without earphones - notably IMRA and trail runs - but as these are so uneven pace and breathing wise anyhow it's a different kettle of fish. I also will often remove my headphones for the first and last stretch of an event or at a point where there's lots of stewards and supporters, out of respect, to hear information and to soak up the buzz.

I will experiment with and without audio as I run but I won't rule out continuing to run with earphones in, I really wouldn't have gotten this far if I hadn't been able to mask my breathing in the early days when it was really ragged and I was really fearful.

I have Asthma and usually take Ventolin before a race or pace run, cold weather
has me breathing like mad yoke, coughing and spluttering but never wear head
Phones I think you are better being able to listen to feed back from breathing,
The thing I have been working on is running more relaxed which I think helps
with breathing, making sure to keep good form and relaxing arms and shoulders
If you can hear your breathing you can take control, Asthma is basicaly over
breathing and if you can hear it you can take control of it, that is my experience
anyway. I have found Marthon training and LR in piticular a great way to get in
tune with breathing and getting used to nice relaxed running. Best luck with it.

Extrasupervery

Kennyg71 wrote: »

I have Asthma and usually take Ventolin before a race or pace run, cold weather
has me breathing like mad yoke, coughing and spluttering but never wear head
Phones I think you are better being able to listen to feed back from breathing,
The thing I have been working on is running more relaxed which I think helps
with breathing, making sure to keep good form and relaxing arms and shoulders
If you can hear your breathing you can take control, Asthma is basicaly over
breathing and if you can hear it you can take control of it, that is my experience
anyway. I have found Marthon training and LR in piticular a great way to get in
tune with breathing and getting used to nice relaxed running. Best luck with it.

Thank you for your advice. I take ventolin too, don't rely on it as much as I used to but have it handy. A technique I found that really, really helps on race days is to do a few warm up sprints. It may sound counter-productive but if you complete 1 or 2 sprints of only a few hundred metres in the 20 minutes before a race it will induce a bronchospasm and give your lungs a chance to recover from it before you start at your race pace, so you don't have your first bad bronchospasm at .5 miles.

I have learned to relax my back and arms a bit, I used to have incredibly bad back and intercostal muscle pain after a race due to exacerbated breathing, it all improves with training. I'll take all of the advice here on board and see how I go! Thanks for the input.

Limerick91

I am still undecided on DCM but I have been following the thread for the past few days and might as well introduce myself
Even though I am not a marathon novice I am a Dublin novice. I hope I am not breaking rules!!!!!


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I have been running a few years and as you can see from my PBs most of them were a good few years ago. Old age must be catching up on me
5k 21:11 Oct 2012
5 mile 38:47 May 2015
10 k 48:33 March 2013
Half M 1:49:17 Sept 2012 Dingle
Full M 4:09:59 May 2015 Limerick

•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Just after doing the Limerick Marathon and I was training 4 times a week for that and one day of weights training. Was doing a Long Run at the weekend and about 5 to 7 miles 3 times during the week

•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Would love to break the 4:00 but would also like to run the marathon without walking. During both my marathons I ran/walked after mile 18
•How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
4 days running is my realistic goal. Some weeks 5 days will be possible
I like the look of the boards plan but I might have to adjust it slightly to allow for 4 or 5 times a week training
•Why are you running this marathon?
After Limerick this year I swore not again for at least 3 years. However herself suggested to keep training and decide in a few months if I do Dublin or not.
Did 2 runs last week, including my first Parkrun, after Limerick marathon

chrislad

I wasn't going to bother with this, as I don't plan to be as active this year in the thread as I was last year, as I don't want to get in the way of the real novices!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I'm started back with the C25K in about Feb 2014, so just over 2 years ago. Before that, I was very inactive, and hadn't done any sport or real exercise in close to 17 years (I was only 31 when I went back so that's slightly embarrassing!)

5k 25:56 Dec 2015 Birdhill Turkey Run
10 k 53:18 May 2016 Limerck (Technically, a six mile, and I wasn't racing full tilt either, so this is a soft PB. I don't do a lot of 10k races, normally did half marathons last year)
Half M 2:03:29 Sept 2015 Dublin
Full M 4:46:30 Oct 2015 Dublin

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

My fitness is quite decent, I think. I had a quiet start to the year, and barely did enough to tip over in Jan/Feb. Back to basics for the month of March in order to get my base back up before DCM training. Up to about 28 miles a week running now.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

My aim last year was 4:30. I had a tough last 8 miles and was thereabout until then. My aim this year is still the 4:30.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I'm currently doing 5 days a week, and wont' be changing this downwards. I might throw in the odd recovery run if I feel okay after any long runs.

Why are you running this marathon?
Because I forgot how painful it was?

The Muppet

Question re Cross training.

I bought a bicycle yesterday so my cross training will be cycling:eek:. How long should the cross training session be on the boards plan?

chrislad

The Muppet wrote: »

Question re Cross training.

I bought a bicycle yesterday so my cross training will be cycling:eek:. How long should the cross training session be on the boards plan?

For the past few weeks, while I was getting back fitness, I was doing 3 days running and 2 days cycling. Cycles would be normally from 12 miles (about an hour) to about 24 miles for the longer ones.

Firstly, I never went out for speed or times. I just took it handy, and never really pushed myself. Any cross training should be relatively easy.

How much depends on how much running, you're doing. If you're doing 5 days, I plan to do an hour a week on the bike. When the miles increase, that's probably going to drop off completely. You will need your rest days, but for the mileage you will be doing, you're going to get pretty tired where you won't even think about the cycling!

El Caballo

The Muppet wrote: »

Question re Cross training.

I bought a bicycle yesterday so my cross training will be cycling:eek:. How long should the cross training session be on the boards plan?

The crosstraining is on recovery days so I'd say you'd be good with 30-60 minutes easy on the bike, not grinding big gears, you just want to shake out the legs.

Would an hour of 5 a side football be considered cross training?

diego_b

Deleted User wrote: »

Would an hour of 5 a side football be considered cross training?

Not really due to intensity but a hell of a great way to pick up a niggle! I dropped astro around June last year as too risky with the training I was going to be putting in. Imagine getting to September and the bulk of training done with at least one 20miler in your legs and then pulling something or turning over an ankle. Tough to take. I love football but it doesn't work too well with running, especially marathon training.

aquinn

diego_b wrote: »

Not really due to intensity but a hell of a great way to pick up a niggle! I dropped astro around June last year as too risky with the training I was going to be putting in. Imagine getting to September and the bulk of training done with at least one 20miler in your legs and then pulling something or turning over an ankle. Tough to take. I love football but it doesn't work too well with running, especially marathon training.

Yahoo. Had to bite my tongue on this one. Cheers.

kittyclaws

Thanks for the replies and advise
I've a question about my LSR - should I run it at the pace I want to do my dream finishing time or my realistic finishing time?

At present the plan is 4:40, how do you recommend I work out my LSR pace please?

Firedance

kittyclaws wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and advise
I've a question about my LSR - should I run it at the pace I want to do my dream finishing time or my realistic finishing time?

At present the plan is 4:40, how do you recommend I work out my LSR pace please?

Hi kittyclaws, have a look back a few pages at nop's super post on pacing here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99632434&postcount=160

your question is answered here:

That said, don't sweat it too much. If anything, ([HM PB] * 2) + 20/25 minutes is conventional guidance. Once you have established that, convert it to PMP using any of the online tools.

Use your half marathon PB, I think you said 2:21 this year is that right? What all this basically means is that you are training to your current fitness and capabilities and not your aspirational ones. I hope that clarifies it.

aquinn

kittyclaws wrote: »

Thanks for the replies and advise
I've a question about my LSR - should I run it at the pace I want to do my dream finishing time or my realistic finishing time?

At present the plan is 4:40, how do you recommend I work out my LSR pace please?

Hey,

Do you have a recent HM or 10 mile time? Train for what you are capable of doing from these rather than a dream time.

Online calculator will give training paces and would be a better indicator from a longer mileage race rather than 5km.

Does that help?

McMillian or Jack Daniels can calculate all paces.