Boards is becoming a Ghost Town

gandalf

IRLConor wrote: »

Sadly, in a world where things are paid for by ads the kind of data needed for a reasonable discussion on this topic are usually commercially sensitive and hence can't be made public.

Well then with have an impasse so. If we were just users of the site I'd see your point, however we are also the content generators that drive traffic to the site and the products the site is selling to advertisers. Boards needs us more than we need boards.

smash

K-9 wrote: »

That cesspit happens to be very busy, same as AH. The sneering at others is great craic, somebody with reverse discrimination about higher standards earlier, as if that's a bad thing!

Over the last week I've found the cafe to be pretty amusing, but that's because they're mostly AH style threads which begs the question... why aren't they in AH?

gandalf

K-9 wrote: »

That cesspit happens to be very busy, same as AH. The sneering at others is great craic, somebody with reverse discrimination about higher standards earlier, as if that's a bad thing!

It's still a cesspit and its creation has eviscerated the main politics forum.

IRLConor

gandalf wrote: »

Well then with have an impasse so. If we were just users of the site I'd see your point, however we are also the content generators that drive traffic to the site and the products the site is selling to advertisers. Boards needs us more than we need boards.

This impasse is not new though. The difference in the wants and needs of the users who generate the content (enabling the revenue stream) and the users who consume the content (generating the revenue stream) have always been large.

And that's even assuming that all posters are similar. I started posting on boards.ie approximately 5 years after you and I'd hazard a guess that we want different things from the site. And both of us are in the long tail of "old" users and probably want different things than folks who are only discovering boards.ie now.

K-9

smash wrote: »

Over the last week I've found the cafe to be pretty amusing, but that's because they're mostly AH style threads which begs the question... why aren't they in AH?

We'd many feedback threads complaining about too many political threads in AH, there are still some there. Yeah, the new cafe seems better craic than the old one, hopefully it continues.

Hollister11

K-9 wrote: »

We'd many feedback threads complaining about too many political threads in AH, there are still some there. Yeah, the new cafe seems better craic than the old one, hopefully it continues.

I hardly post in the cafe, but I do enjoy reading the current one more than the previous.

KERSPLAT!

smash wrote: »

Maybe it's just me... but Conor, what I've just quoted comes across as almost threatening in manner. It's a bit odd to read.

What in the name of Jaysus!? I can't believe for a minute that you took Conors post in a threatening manner. Give it over.

Use caution when you can't see the stats/facts. Simple really.

For what it's worth I do believe traffic is down but what Conor has said makes sense, we can say what we want but it's statistics that count.

smash

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

What in the name of Jaysus!? I can't believe for a minute that you took Conors post in a threatening manner. Give it over.

Use caution when you can't see the stats/facts. Simple really.

For what it's worth I do believe traffic is down but what Conor has said makes sense, we can say what we want but it's statistics that count.

I said almost threatening in manner and later said its like a warning that you see in a DOB thread.

Lovely Bloke

It actually doesn't matter what anyone posts in this thread.

The Office just cares about the untapped potential posters who love the new layout.

When those guys start posting shure we won't know ourselves with the amount of posts them guys do, a veritable tsunami of posts is just around the corner.

DEFTLEFTHAND

A good referee is one who you don't notice.

Over Moderation is a genuine issue here. Learn from the popular sites and find that middle ground.

Nody

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

A good referee is one who you don't notice.

Over Moderation is a genuine issue here. Learn from the popular sites and find that middle ground.

What is your middle ground is under moderation / over moderation for someone else; there is no mythical middle ground that is acceptable for everyone.

Wibbs

gandalf wrote: »

It's still a cesspit and its creation has eviscerated the main politics forum.

The main politics forums which had become over saturated with subforums and equally saturated by an ever decreasing muddle of middle aged circle jerkers astonished at how clever they were? That Politics forum? While Politics cafe had it's moments it was the enema that discussion of politics on the site desperately needed.

As for stats, from the horses mouth as it were.

Dav wrote: »

Registrations are down, this is no secret.

The rest of that post appears reasonable, but the result from the attempts is making the place harder to navigate and making Boards look ever smaller.

The members of the site are only a part of the site's audience. They're the most important member by a considerable margin, but they're the only ones who say they're happy with the status quo. Making a site that's less confusing and more enticing to the overwhelming majority of our visitors (people with no account who find us via a search) is one of the biggest driving factors.

I've really noticed this since I went back to the old style categories at the top. Board's seemed far larger back then. More places to explore and run around in.

The Black Oil

The first message board I joined around 1999/2000 was on the BBC's website. They shut it down around 2002, iirc. I joined Empire (the film magazine) back in its orange days. They upgraded it in 2005, it held steady for a few years, then it started to drift. Most of the staff didn't care to input all that much, bar Helen O’ Hara. The forum eventually fell apart on a technical level last year and was offline for 3-4 months. By that point, many people were reluctant to come back or had given up. It returned briefly with many technical issues still going on. They killed off the forum, it was too out of date to fix and word was the higher ups didn't want to shell out to set up a new one. Now Empire's main site is incredibly bland with no personal identity. I’ve seen other message boards fall off a cliff with their user interaction stats as well. I think in some cases people now prefer the instant gratification of apps and can't be arsed following the structure of a forum/thread and typing into a box.

As for boards, mixed bag. Some of the serious forums seem generally quieter. Recreational forums: Outdoor Sports seems to have picked up. Some sports forums are obviously very popular. Classical (as in music), a mod there started a 'what are you listening to?' thread, it has 8 posts since Dec 2015. Classical's always been quiet enough, though. Psychology seems busier compared to a year or two ago. I'm slightly in awe of Farming and Forestry - kudos to the community there. Television, ticking away fine, Online TV forum's a bit pointless, as said. I don't know how I'd judge the overall footprint of boards, though ghost town probably fits in some respects.

The suggestion of removing mods who been inactive for 3 months - I think 4-5 months would be better, just to get them a fair shake. On a quiet forum, are you going to find it easy to source replacements of sufficient calibre?

Lurkio

IRLConor wrote: »

I don't know whether Boards.ie is growing or shrinking these days, but I would caution people against assuming that it's doing anything in particular. What might seem obvious to you might actually be a false impression. Or you might be right. But you won't really know, so be wary about drawing conclusions.

"Don't think. Be!", our bit of wisdom for the day.

FA Hayek

Links234 wrote: »

If there's anything killing boards, it's some of the outright nastiness that goes on from overly hostile users with a bug up their ass and an axe to grind about whatever their pet subject is.

This works both ways in fairness. The original nastiness online was created by those who wanted to use the web as a way to create change in society. The 'right on' type of change that is ever pervasive online that has reached the extreme. If you do not hold the correct opinion on something then you are basically castigated and outed as some pariah. Look at any past debate on abortion or SSM. Users are bullied into submission on issues or just quitting entirely. Yes, I use the word bullied. It is amazing that those that preach tolerance are actually some of the most intolerant when it comes to differing opinions or beliefs.

This has seeped into the moderation of many forums on boards.ie unfortunately. Dav said it clearly that there was an editorial slant to boards.ie now. When a discussion forum stops becoming a discussion forum and just starts to be an echo chamber where already held beliefs are agreed upon in a circle of confirmation bias then is it no wonder that new people stop signing up or that exisiting long time posters are no longer felt welcome to be around to post.

Too many negative American-isms have seeped into boards, the identity politics, right on, everything is hate speech, type of negativity. It has killed boards as being uniquely, well boards, fun and Irish.

Also, there are other factors here too in fairness. Demographic changes, disastrous updates, admin or management that don't listen to its user base, as well as the above.

In my opinion its already dead. It will still hold some corner of the Irish web but it will never ever be back to its hey day.

Chorus_suck

This post has been deleted.

FA Hayek

Read most of this thread now..phew!

Anyway, it has already been mentioned but, content.
Content is king. If you have good content then people will view and engage.
This comes from the users.

I look at some old threads and see with nostalgia good users of old now banned or with closed accounts.

Sponge Bob for example was a great content driver regards anything to do with Transport or Infrastructure. He got Banned, no idea why but pissed off the wrong Mod probably. He posts now in another forum to do with Infrastructure a message board that is in competition with boards. Go figure.

The Corinthian is another guy. I saw that he got a stupid yellow in AH. He went the whole DRP process but it appeared to be unresolved and he was not happy with the outcome. He closed his account pretty much after that. Again, boards lost another huge content creator of many forums. He clearly stated as well that boards had changed over the years to a place that was not as open or tolerant as before.

Only this week another good poster in my view, Godge has been banned. No idea why, no transparency. Perhaps it was warranted, perhaps he pissed off the wrong mod. No idea but perception again is rather poor. Perception is reality and if posters are banned without any transparency then do not be surprised if posters take a dim view on mods and its secrecy.

Who was that Cork girl who went off and joined the IDF for a bit. She was on boards for a while. Closed her account and I saw she got a very rough time from many accusing her of aiding a Nazi like regime in A&A and AH. She was bullied out of the place.

These are four content creators of the top of my head either banned or forced off boards. Some mods are over zealous, no question. Cutting off their noses despite their face and the site as a whole suffers. Mods and admins do not take a big picture view at all. They want their i's dotted, their t's crossed, their ideology protected and all will be right in the world. Yet the site dies a slow death. Again, go figure.

FriendComputer

FA Hayek wrote: »

This works both ways in fairness. The original nastiness online was created by those who wanted to use the web as a way to create change in society. The 'right on' type of change that is ever pervasive online that has reached the extreme. If you do not hold the correct opinion on something then you are basically castigated and outed as some pariah.

Not on AH, anyway. Back in its hayday it was definitely left-wing (or at least not nearly as bad as it is these days) but these days it's basically a bitch-fest for the site's terminally outraged right-wingers.

Now, I'm far and away from the crazies that make up a minority of the modern left but that doesn't mean I'll be all pally-pally with people who harp on (and on and on...) about things like an "immigrant rape epidemic", hordes of immigrants taking over Europe, dole bashing, etc..

I know I'm not alone in having given up.

These people say they want discussion - they don't really. Any opinion that's left of theirs is met with a slew of rolleyes and insults, all carefully couched to stay within the rules of course. The complaints about bullying (specifically relating to the SSM threads) were, and are, by people who couldn't hack their opinions being challenged or, in the worst cases, being called out on what they were.

The internet's turned into a **** place with these glorified kids taking their pissing contests to every part of it; blame them if you want to blame anyone but as has been said on the thread, that isn't the cause here.

delta_bravo

I'm not familiar with many of the different forums on this site but personally the most evident place I see a decline in the site is in the forums for each university. When I was starting college about ten years ago, the UCD forum was buzzing and for years before that too. The same for trinity, maynooth and the others. Students used boards to organise pints, meetup, exchange notes and whatever other college activities were generally found on the forum on boards. This year I went back to do a course and all those things that boards was once used for are now found on specific course facebook groups. If you look at the various third level forums now on board you will see they are very quiet places at a time of year they were once very busy as exams loomed.

There are still some forums where there seems to be a good community of members but I can't see boards being able to compete with social media in any way. It's a pity really as when I was younger I found this site an excellent resource for information but I think it just has been left behind by the explosion of mobile social media.

Legal Action

Revenge porn thread in AH closed, no reason given. FFS Boards stop treating us like children and leave threads open.

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

The main politics forums which had become over saturated with subforums and equally saturated by an ever decreasing muddle of middle aged circle jerkers astonished at how clever they were? That Politics forum? While Politics cafe had it's moments it was the enema that discussion of politics on the site desperately needed.

The main forum was moving away from the stuffier feel when I started modding and continued while it still was busy. Some, I'd say all older posters, wanted higher standards but the mods always were conscious of trying to make the forum welcoming to newer users. I'd say if the cafe hadn't took off it would be more relaxed again, just progression. With the cafe we're now between a rock and a hard place. Joining up the 3 remaining fora would help but the cafe is were people are at, same as AH before.

As for opposite, unpopular opinions, I'd be very conscious of that in threads, probably to the extent those posters get away with more than usual. Cries of inconsistency!
It isn't a left or right thing, it's a group think thing. Get the consensus right wing or conservative (yes, that happens on boards) and you get the exact same behaviour.

Lurkio

FA Hayek wrote: »

Read most of this thread (............) slow death. Again, go figure.

Given the abuse that I've seen forked out, particularily in the Café, I find the one sided tale above rather amusing.

The person you refer to specifically above had a car crash falling out with a former associate on a thread in AH over matters non-political, in which an horrific amount of dirty laundry was waved about for public delectation. As a result they and the other person involved seemed to stop posting, as far as I recall (and I recall rather a great deal).

FA Hayek wrote: »

Users are bullied into submission on issues or just quitting entirely. Yes, I use the word bullied. It is amazing that those that preach tolerance are actually some of the most intolerant when it comes to differing opinions or beliefs..

Perhaps its a lack of intelligence on the part of we liberals, but certainly I find it hard to see what good can come of posters claiming, in a serious discussion, that jews run the world, that racism has a basis in fact, or making various spurious claims which fly in the face of well known and freely available facts. One might say that - for example - a few that opposed gay marriage got a hard time of it, but there were quite a few that seemed to start from the position that gay people were in fact at best perverts and at worst child molesters in waiting. Again, expecting a "reasonable" discussion to come from that is a bit much. We really shouldn't have to go over this ground in the 21st century. These are discredited, redundant ideas, seemingly still held by a vocal minority and can have no real place, save for the sake of historical reference, in a sane discussion. CT theory or some specific forum perhaps, but not amongst the mainstream.

Unknown Soldier

Beasty wrote: »

Bottom line is this is a business that does need to grow and initiatives to help draw in new users are actually going to benefit us all by strengthening the case for the current owners to continue supporting this business.

Which is why something like a sub forum on the cycling forum for Sportives would be a good call. There is no "go to" place for them, unless you include that useless Ci Calendar yoke or the more useless FBI book crap

These are the type of thngs that boards.ie could develope to make it a more "goto" site.

That danger is you start charging people for the "privilege" of posting them.

The "forced rep" thing was a huge fail tbh.

Beasty

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Which is why something like a sub forum on the cycling forum for Sportives would be a good call. There is no "go to" place for them, unless you include that useless Ci Calendar yoke or the more useless FBI book crap

And yet we have others in this thread stating we have too many forums. Indeed I think the threshold for establishing new ones (albeit still requiring Admin buy-in) is way too low. Some time ago there was a clamour for a Roller Derby Forum. There were lots of users supporting it and IIRC it passed the threshold very quickly and became a forum. There was an initial spurt of activity, but now it's dead

Probably down to its sole mod mind....

Part of the success of the Cycling forum is down to the fact it is the go to place for pretty much all cycling needs. Fragment it and you risk destroying the community it has built up over recent years

Eugene Norman

Legal Action wrote: »

Revenge porn thread in AH closed, no reason given. FFS Boards stop treating us like children and leave threads open.

I couldn't see a card or an infraction in that thread, it was even tempered.

Eugene Norman

Lurkio wrote: »

Given the abuse that I've seen forked out, particularily in the Café, I find the one sided tale above rather amusing.

The person you refer to specifically above had a car crash falling out with a former associate on a thread in AH over matters non-political, in which an horrific amount of dirty laundry was waved about for public delectation. As a result they and the other person involved seemed to stop posting, as far as I recall (and I recall rather a great deal).




Perhaps its a lack of intelligence on the part of we liberals, but certainly I find it hard to see what good can come of posters claiming, in a serious discussion, that jews run the world, that racism has a basis in fact, or making various spurious claims which fly in the face of well known and freely available facts. One might say that - for example - a few that opposed gay marriage got a hard time of it, but there were quite a few that seemed to start from the position that gay people were in fact at best perverts and at worst child molesters in waiting. Again, expecting a "reasonable" discussion to come from that is a bit much. We really shouldn't have to go over this ground in the 21st century. These are discredited, redundant ideas, seemingly still held by a vocal minority and can have no real place, save for the sake of historical reference, in a sane discussion. CT theory or some specific forum perhaps, but not amongst the mainstream.

All of those arguments are spurious. If it's easy to argue against somebodies beliefs then do so, don't ban them. And of course some Christians or religious think homosexuality immoral and perverted (a majority opinion a few years ago). Argue against them. Don't ban them.

cyning

What I am finding so frustrating is the lack of response from the office: not just on this issue but in general with any issue. It was the exact same with the issue with the ads on touch.boards last year; almost every post in numerous feedback threads were saying they were opening even when not clicked on. No responses (but Niamh did respond on the same thread to the problems with an uber ad ignoring everything else) until Dav came in and said it wasn't happening him. It's so frustrating that feedback (and genuine feedback) just seems to be ignored.

I've been using the new site since it was launched. As I did with the touch site. It's just not useable... I'm spending less time here because it is so difficult to navigate around. I'm not a massive poster, or a profilic one. But I browse daily... It is less enjoyable now than it was. I hope there is a response from the office and there is a rethink: there are some good things in the new site on mobile at least. But I can't believe it was launched the way it is right now.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

A good referee is one who you don't notice.

Over Moderation is a genuine issue here. Learn from the popular sites and find that middle ground.

over-moderation is a part of it. but it doesn't help that mods are so visible, with their names in bold on every post they make, gives the impression that every fourth poster is a mod... I'm not sure what its like on the new site, or what it'll be like when it's out of beta. Maybe just have their name in bold in their own forums, or give 'mod posts' a dark background.


you'd feel sorry for Dav though, takes a week off and comes back to this...

gandalf

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

you'd feel sorry for Dav though, takes a week off and comes back to this...

There is another Community Manager why haven't they stood in and taken the pressure off Dav while/if he has been away. It's standard procedure in any type of organisation that your work peers cover your position whilst you are away. Especially if you are public facing and especially if there is a decisive issue playing out. If they don't deal with the end users then why is their title community manager.

TBH I believe it demonstrates the attitude by the management of boards to the users/products/content generators of this site. Basically it's summed up by two words, **** them!

Legal Action

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I couldn't see a card or an infraction in that thread, it was even tempered.

My guess is someone was upset about the subject matter and made a complaint. It's pretty bad, closing a thread and not letting us know why.