Boards is becoming a Ghost Town

Eugene Norman

511 wrote: »

Sure, everyone knows he closed his account to circumvent a future ban from the Political Café.

Nodin was a loss to this site (when he was gone). I looked into a thread today to see the op (Kermit) was banned. As usual it's hard to see why.

Zaph

511 wrote: »

Sure, everyone knows he closed his account to circumvent a future ban from the Political Café.

Please leave pointless speculation about other posters out of the discussion. Everyone is entitled to close their account for whatever reason they choose, but posters with poor records know that simply closing an account and opening a new one won't erase the past. Lurkio has been quite open about his past account so there's nothing more to say on the matter.

KomradeBishop

What about people who close an account, openly state their identity in a new one, and - despite being completely open about it - then get screwed?

That's pretty much exactly what happened in my case - my ban had gotten escalated after I closed my account, which I had no way of knowing - and then when I got wrongly sitebanned on my new account, that led to a gigantic painful saga (on both mods and my part), over several different things/events (all rooted in events from the initial siteban), which never got properly resolved - which really just became completely overcomplicated and irresolvable, and led to escalation after escalation (in small and subtle ways, that were setting future traps for me - I definitely more and more get the feeling that was 'managed', e.g. in a way that someone in a workplace would be set up for failure - all of it is rather too convenient, in how I got incrementally screwed each time there was a new interaction with mods).

If someone closes their account, it seems to open them up to mod action against them being arbitrarily escalated - even if their account is closed and they did nothing to warrant it - something for posters to be aware of.

RDM_83 again

Zaph wrote: »

Please leave pointless speculation about other posters out of the discussion. Everyone is entitled to close their account for whatever reason they choose, but posters with poor records know that simply closing an account and opening a new one won't erase the past. Lurkio has been quite open about his past account so there's nothing more to say on the matter.

I'm curious about this, because as far as I can see a lot of moderation involves the gradual ramping up of punishments.
I get a card in After Hours every 6 months to a year but I'm fairly certain at least one of those (I need to look through the pm's) that I have received a Red card instead of a Yellow because of previously having got one or two cards in After Hours. (and had to get a ban reversed that probably would have been a card instead of a ban without having those infractions)

The vast vast majority of my posts are fine so I would hope that mods would remember me as particularly problematic, I get disciplined rarely, yet those cards even though very spaced out do count against me IMO because they are sitting there in the profile (its a total of 5 so not exactly much but it looks worse than a clean slate)

Would it be the case that me re-registering would reset the counter because it does seem that this is done repetitively by some posters, in terms of the way moderation escalates here, isn't the sensible thing for a poster that occasionally gets sanctioned but is in general a good poster to close their account fairly regularly to prevent getting harder punishment.

ps I do think this is the motivation for some of the "good" account closures as they aren't exactly any use for privacy etc

uck51js9zml2yt

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I'm curious about this, because as far as I can see a lot of moderation involves the gradual ramping up of punishments.
I get a card in After Hours every 6 months to a year but I'm fairly certain at least one of those (I need to look through the pm's) that I have received a Red card instead of a Yellow because of previously having got one or two cards in After Hours. (and had to get a ban reversed that probably would have been a card instead of a ban without having those infractions)

The vast vast majority of my posts are fine so I would hope that mods would remember me as particularly problematic, I get disciplined rarely, yet those cards even though very spaced out do count against me IMO because they are sitting there in the profile (its a total of 5 so not exactly much but it looks worse than a clean slate)

Would it be the case that me re-registering would reset the counter because it does seem that this is done repetitively by some posters, in terms of the way moderation escalates here, isn't the sensible thing for a poster that occasionally gets sanctioned but is in general a good poster to close their account fairly regularly to prevent getting harder punishment.

ps I do think this is the motivation for some of the "good" account closures as they aren't exactly any use for privacy etc

Just read the prison forum to see that they dig into peoples histories and find previous accounts which have been carded etc

K-9

Closed accounts are for privacy purposes, not evading bans, unfortunately it is being abused by some. A good few people have come back and caused little to no bother and that's great.

Pawwed Rig

KomradeBishop wrote: »

I definitely more and more get the feeling that was 'managed', e.g. in a way that someone in a workplace would be set up for failure - all of it is rather too convenient, in how I got incrementally screwed each time there was a new interaction with mods).

If someone closes their account, it seems to open them up to mod action against them being arbitrarily escalated - even if their account is closed and they did nothing to warrant it - something for posters to be aware of.

That is real conspiracy theory stuff and doesn't happen. If I saw this happening I would not be a mod nor would I post on the site.

KomradeBishop

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That is real conspiracy theory stuff and doesn't happen. If I saw this happening I would not be a mod nor would I post on the site.

The second sentence is a fact - my ban was escalated after my account was closed, as confirmed by an Admin in my siteban appeal - and then even after that siteban was resolved, my ban was still escalated with new conditions placed on it (which led to much further grief) - that's no conspiracy theory, it is fact.


The first sentence - after having been screwed so many times in that saga - is perfectly justified cynicism on my part; I gave mods benefit of the doubt as much and for as long as I can - but at every turn, things just escalated more and more.

I can see how each step of it could have happened perfectly innocently (collective screwups on mods part, leaving me worse off every time), but some parts of it just stretch credibility altogether - as if e.g. mods were doing their own version of 'rules lawyering' against me...

Pawwed Rig

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The first sentence - after having been screwed so many times in that saga - is perfectly justified cynicism on my part; I gave mods benefit of the doubt as much and for as long as I can - but at every turn, things just escalated more and more.

I can see how each step of it could have happened perfectly innocently (collective screwups on mods part, leaving me worse off every time), but some parts of it just stretch credibility altogether - as if e.g. mods were doing their own version of 'rules lawyering' against me...

So never your fault then? Always the fault of multiple screw ups by multiple mods who have nothing in common with each other only that they post on the same site?? There is a common denominator here.

KomradeBishop

Explain to me exactly Pawwed Rig, how my ban being escalated after I had closed my account - and then after my siteban from that escalation (which I had no way of knowing I was breaching), still led to an escalation of my original ban - explain how that is my fault? I did nothing to deserve any of that.

You're just reciting the same 'circling-the-wagons' kneejerk defence of mod actions, that is very prevalent on this site - and reciting ignorant nonsense, that very conveniently automatically makes the person mods act against in the wrong, with saying 'there is a common denominator here'.

You haven't even bothered your hole trying to learn any facts here, before you jump to conclusions and start to circle the wagons...shows part of the problem many people have experienced, with moderation here...

Anyone who recites that kind of stuff, before actually looking at evidence, has no place being a mod - because they have shown their own irrational bias here.

hullaballoo

Now the re-regs are appealing bans ITT.

I think it's time for lolcats.

KomradeBishop

This is no ban appeal - and I'll note as well, that you in particular have a history of jumping in with condescending comments towards me, so I wouldn't put it past you to start misrepresenting what I say to get another jab in - this started as pointing out, how people who close their accounts and return, open themselves up to arbitrary mod action:

If someone closes their account, it seems to open them up to mod action against them being arbitrarily escalated - even if their account is closed and they did nothing to warrant it - something for posters to be aware of.

One eyed Jack

KomradeBishop wrote: »

This is no ban appeal - and I'll note as well, that you in particular have a history of jumping in with condescending comments towards me, so I wouldn't put it past you to start misrepresenting what I say to get another jab in - this started as pointing out, how people who close their accounts and return, open themselves up to arbitrary mod action:

If someone closes their account, it seems to open them up to mod action against them being arbitrarily escalated - even if their account is closed and they did nothing to warrant it - something for posters to be aware of.

KB in all fairness, your case seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Plenty of posters including myself have closed their previous accounts for privacy reasons and even though I had infractions on my previous account, I've never had any arbitrary escalation of moderator actions or any of the rest of it. If I were a particularly troublesome poster and a timesink for the moderators and admins alike, then I'd understand that I would be under closer scrutiny upon my return.

I think it's off-putting to anyone reading this thread as a guest who might be thinking about becoming a member to use your case as an example of the typical treatment of posters here when the experience I've had with moderators and admins alike would completely and utterly refute your assertions.

I wouldn't want you to take this personally as I've always admired your encyclopedic knowledge of economics, but you're doing yourself a disservice by bringing up your ongoing dispute at every opportunity when you know there are procedures and systems in place on Boards to assist you in coming to an amicable resolution for once and for all that would put this dispute to rest.

KomradeBishop

I didn't say it was typical treatment - it is a fact that when you close your account, that mods can escalate past bans against you, without you doing anything to deserve that - and that even if you get wrongly sitebanned as a result of that, the conditions can still be left elevated above your original ban.

Nothing anybody posts can refute that fact. Neither can anybody refute the fact that mods are capable of doing this, and have demonstrated doing this in the past.

My added point to this, is that the procedures and systems on Boards do not work when something like this happens - it is the systems and procedures themselves that actually led to the incremental escalations, that made all of this worse every time (no matter how amicably) you go back to mods - all starting from the original unjust escalation.


You don't ignore 'exceptions' like this - it's still a monumental screwup/injustice, that moderation should be judged by - if it were an 'exception', and acknowledged by mods as one, it would have been properly resolved, not turned into the clusterfúck it became.


Anyway, I want to leave it there, not get into further replies on it, so would appreciate no further replies so I don't get dragged back into it - the one fact that should be taken into consideration from it, is that mods are capable of escalating bans for no reason, once an account is closed (and for new escalations to be put in place, after running into problems due to this) - that's not right.

hullaballoo

KomradeBishop wrote: »

This is no ban appeal - and I'll note as well, that you in particular have a history of jumping in with condescending comments towards me, so I wouldn't put it past you to start misrepresenting what I say to get another jab in - this started as pointing out, how people who close their accounts and return, open themselves up to arbitrary mod action:

If someone closes their account, it seems to open them up to mod action against them being arbitrarily escalated - even if their account is closed and they did nothing to warrant it - something for posters to be aware of.

I have no idea who you are but I apologise if I've offended you in some way. I certainly have no recollection of having done so.

dr.bollocko

Is boards ever going to get a working truly mobile platform?

I had such high hopes for the mobile app. Looked good. First release had so many bugs but the intent was solid.

Then it appeared it just dropped. No updates. It's functionally not usable. None of the glitches got fixed. Nowhere obvious to post the problems. App uninstalled. Now I use the legacy view on mobile just to find the feedback forum.

And ok. The redesign was designed after community feedback. I get it was an effort and it's not my intention to poop on anyone's hard work but it needs shelving and a rethink.

It just seems to me that things get carried to roughly 70% completion and then get dropped. But the app in particular. Use that thing for 5 minutes. It's got so many problems. It's laid out nice. But behind the pretty layout it needs buttons that work!

KomradeBishop

hullaballoo wrote: »

I have no idea who you are but I apologise if I've offended you in some way. I certainly have no recollection of having done so.

You had no problem recollecting who I was here, when making this personal jab against me, so excuse me if I don't think you're being entirely truthful:

hullaballoo wrote: »

This thread has become very Soviet all of a sudden. Radical simplification sounds like a Stalinist policy. Political Economics, I'm sure, was introduced to stem the witterings of a certain Komrade? And we're annexing the Balkans as well or something.

hullaballoo

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You had no problem recollecting who I was here, when making this personal jab against me, so excuse me if I don't think you're being entirely truthful:

Ok. That's not any of the things you've said it is.

I still don't know who you are.

K-9

A good few mods, C-mods and Admins IIRC spent time on your appeals Kb, and IMO your depiction is grossly unfair on them.

Wibbs

One eyed Jack wrote: »

KB in all fairness, your case seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

That's true alright OEJ. This kinda thing is rare and thankfully so and lurkers should know that. But when you see the below:

hullaballoo wrote: »

I have no idea who you are but I apologise if I've offended you in some way. I certainly have no recollection of having done so.

C'mon HB, that's been disingenuous to the point of actively taking the piss. Unless it was meant in the spirit of some sort of misguided sarcasm. You well know who he is HB, as the quote he referenced shows all too clearly. "The witterings of a certain Komrade?" You're really going to claim with a straight face that this isn't a reference to him and claim "I still don't know who you are"? You clearly do. And that's OK BTW.

And that illustrates some of the issues hounding us all. Boards has been remarkably "democratic" and open, given it is a private site and community. It is the only site I personally know that's even close to being like this. And I bloody love it for it. I love the fact that we can support or call each other out and enter into a broader dialogue among the inevitable noise that can come from that level of engagement.

Yes, Boards.ie can be the site you love to dislike, but we are allowed to dislike parts of it and publicly. And in the years I've been here, the community digests all that and comes out the stronger. Above and beyond any site rejig, that's the core of here and when that gets threatened, that's when it gets worrying for me.

Pawwed Rig

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Explain to me exactly Pawwed Rig, how my ban being escalated after I had closed my account - and then after my siteban from that escalation (which I had no way of knowing I was breaching), still led to an escalation of my original ban - explain how that is my fault? I did nothing to deserve any of that.

You're just reciting the same 'circling-the-wagons' kneejerk defence of mod actions, that is very prevalent on this site - and reciting ignorant nonsense, that very conveniently automatically makes the person mods act against in the wrong, with saying 'there is a common denominator here'.

Have you tried posting in a way that doesn't incur mod actions? That is what most people do and I think you will find that it solves the issues that you seem to be having with the site. If you are trying to claim that all of the actions (of which I have no clue how many there are) against you were never your fault but were part of some great conspiracy then I have to call bull on that.

Without meaning any disrespect you are just not that important. I would guess that most of the mods on the site do not even know who you are so to imagine that there is a managed process to oust you is ludicrous.

KomradeBishop

K-9 wrote: »

A good few mods, C-mods and Admins IIRC spent time on your appeals Kb, and IMO your depiction is grossly unfair on them.

Please explain how it is in any way incorrect or unfair, to say that my ban was escalated after my previous account was closed - and that this was something I did nothing to deserve - and that once my siteban due to this was resolved, the conditions added on top of my ban were also something I did nothing to deserve.

Add to that then, that nearly all of the future interaction I had with mods over that set of bans, were caused by escalations I did nothing to deserve...


I think mods need to re-evaluate, what is exactly 'grossly unfair'...I appreciate the time spent on it all - but it seemed that no matter how much time went into it, every stage of the process, seemed to involve some new condition or escalation, which screwed me over incrementally that little bit more.

hullaballoo

Wibbs wrote: »

C'mon HB, that's been disingenuous to the point of actively taking the piss. Unless it was meant in the spirit of some sort of misguided sarcasm. You well know who he is HB, as the quote he referenced shows all too clearly. "The witterings of a certain Komrade?" You're really going to claim with a straight face that this isn't a reference to him and claim "I still don't know who you are"? You clearly do. And that's OK BTW.

Yeah, I do know who he is.

Anyway, I was being facetious as I am wont to do from time to time. The self-aggrandisement makes me do it.

KomradeBishop

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Have you tried posting in a way that doesn't incur mod actions? That is what most people do and I think you will find that it solves the issues that you seem to be having with the site. If you are trying to claim that all of the actions (of which I have no clue how many there are) against you were never your fault but were part of some great conspiracy then I have to call bull on that.

Without meaning any disrespect you are just not that important. I would guess that most of the mods on the site do not even know who you are so to imagine that there is a managed process to oust you is ludicrous.

Are you misreading me? My ban was escalated after closing my account, when I had done nothing to trigger that... (underlined, hoping this will not be missed)

Then, I got sitebanned because I did not know my ban was escalated. Then when the siteban was resolved, my original ban still had new conditions put on it - which led me into future run-ins.

None of that is justifiable. I tried going through the proper channels for resolving it all, and giving mods benefit of the doubt and all, and it just led to escalation after escalation (in small increments, which added up to a much greater whole over time).


I'm referring specifically, to just the set of mod actions covering the above - not to anything else - where on earth did I say 'all' mod actions against me?
That you try and portray me as saying that, shows you are trying to straw-man me, in a way that allows you to try and portray me as the cause of and deserving of the above - as you're trying to cajole me into saying I am partly responsible for the above described mod screwups.

That's not right - the above is a clear case of bans being escalated against me, when I did nothing to bring that on - so it's not right for you to try and muddy that, as if I am responsible for that.
It comes across highly as 'circling the mod wagons', particularly given your use of the 'conspiracy theory' labelling earlier.

See, when mods start playing dirty like that - particularly with the condescension from another mod here - it starts making the moderation process look very bad and biased.

KomradeBishop

hullaballoo wrote: »

Yeah, I do know who he is.

Anyway, I was being facetious as I am wont to do from time to time. The self-aggrandisement makes me do it.

See that's not excusable, and I'd like to see you taken up on that by other mods (glad to see you have been, by Wibbs there too) - you clearly attacked my credibility there, and you lied in the process of doing that (your post here pretty much admits that lie, and papers it over with the word 'facetious').

That kind of underhanded reputational attack should lose you mod position. I'll note as well, that I even reported the post of yours personally attacking me last month, that I quoted above, yet nothing was done about that - even after I highlighted that later on in that thread.

tomwaterford

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Is boards ever going to get a working truly mobile platform?

I had such high hopes for the mobile app. Looked good. First release had so many bugs but the intent was solid.

Then it appeared it just dropped. No updates. It's functionally not usable. None of the glitches got fixed. Nowhere obvious to post the problems. App uninstalled. Now I use the legacy view on mobile just to find the feedback forum.

And ok. The redesign was designed after community feedback. I get it was an effort and it's not my intention to poop on anyone's hard work but it needs shelving and a rethink.

It just seems to me that things get carried to roughly 70% completion and then get dropped. But the app in particular. Use that thing for 5 minutes. It's got so many problems. It's laid out nice. But behind the pretty layout it needs buttons that work!

Tbf the touch site is quite good I find on the mobile


Can't multi quote....but the effort of that anyways

K-9

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Please explain how it is in any way incorrect or unfair, to say that my ban was escalated after my previous account was closed - and that this was something I did nothing to deserve - and that once my siteban due to this was resolved, the conditions added on top of my ban were also something I did nothing to deserve.

Add to that then, that nearly all of the future interaction I had with mods over that set of bans, were caused by escalations I did nothing to deserve...


I think mods need to re-evaluate, what is exactly 'grossly unfair'...I appreciate the time spent on it all - but it seemed that no matter how much time went into it, every stage of the process, seemed to involve some new condition or escalation, which screwed me over incrementally that little bit more.

Kb, we've spent hours, going into days on this, no exaggeration.

Pawwed Rig

KomradeBishop wrote: »

I'm referring specifically, to just the set of mod actions covering the above - not to anything else - where on earth did I say 'all' mod actions against me?.

I see, so you will only discuss 1 very particular incident and everything else cannot be addressed yet you quite happy to make broad general statements about me and all of the other moderators on this site! Hardly seems fair does it?

So in effect you will only discuss within extremely narrow parameters.

K-9

Kb, a new forum was set up for you, to accommodate you.

The siteban was an error AFAIK, yet it is 2 years later? You are still going on about it. None of us ever said we were infallible.

I don't know why every couple of months this stuff gets dragged up on various threads across the site.

What I do know is, no mod, C-mod or admin shuts your opinion down. That seems at odds with what you say about modding on the site.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

K-9 wrote: »

Kb, we've spent hours, going into days on this, no exaggeration.

Well it's really fun and interesting to read and very relevant to what overall problems the site has

Honestly the main reason for declining traffic is probably the fact that it's a message board site. I joined when I was 18 and I really can't picture many people that age these days signing up with all the competition from bigger, simpler sites. It'd be like 18 year old me joining up to a cool club where people make jokes over landlines and write letters to each other, doesn't matter how good the content is, the medium is offputting and old-fashioned.

Every time this issue is raised moderation is one of the most consistently cited problems from the user base. I'm very much one of the bleeding heart perpetually offended snowflakes or whatever, and it still seems OTT pretty frequently to me. I understand that mods often see a clusterfcuk coming in a thread and take preemptive action before it gets too bad, but still. The user base of the site skews left, conservative posters probably feel a bit ganged up anyway and then the moderation compounds that.

And that leads to a situation where threads go from zero to meta in a couple of pages, someone says something, someone objects to it, first person goes immediately to 'I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO SAY THE THINGS' rather than defending what they said. Cards, thread locked, and next time the topic comes up half the first page will be people saying 'oh we're not allowed to discuss this it'll probably be locked'. It is deeply, deeply boring to read as an established user and I can't imagine how off putting it is for a new or casual user.