Bring back the death sentence

Mr McBoatface

After reading the details on RTE today of the following case I've once again come to the conculsion that there are some people for whom the death sentence is a totally justifiable punishment.

So what does the folks of after hours think?What sentence would you like to see handed down in this and similar cases ?

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0503/785832-rape-life-in-prison/

"A 48-year-old man who raped his girlfriend and her 60-year-old mother has been sentenced to life in prison after a judge said it was the worst case he had ever come across.

Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy said the extremely violent attacks meant it was one of those exceptional cases where a life sentence was appropriate despite a guilty plea.

He imposed eight life sentences to be served at the same time for a number of rape and related offences.

The Waterford man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his victims, had previously served a nine-year sentence for raping his own daughter from a previous relationship.

At the time of these offences, which took place over three days at three locations in Dublin in July 2015, he was on bail for kidnapping and seriously assaulting the same girlfriend the previous year."

Birneybau

Why not a rape sentence?

Timberrrrrrrr

string the cnut up and sell tickets to watch it.

tritium

I generally detest torture porn typed from the safety of ones keyboard, so no, let's not bring back the death sentence, or as one poster suggested a rape sentence.

Besides, leaving them to rot in prison feels somehow a better option all round

I'm in favour of the death penalty...but only in certain murder cases.

A life sentence seems appropriate here.

Esel

Life without parole?

The_Valeyard

No need to lower ourselves to their level.


Just make life = life. No 12 / 14 years. Life meaning you will never be released, you will never have freedom again, you will die behind those walls.

tritium

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No need to lower ourselves to their level.


Just make life = life. No 12 / 14 years. Life meaning you will never be released, you will never have freedom again, you will die behind those walls.

There's a persistent myth that life sentence means release after a handful of years. I'll try to dig out the stats later but I recall a recent report that an average life sentence was about 17 years, with a small number of lifers serving in excess of 30 years

Drumpot

I've wondered about this.

Death sentence would be a good tool for people who cannot or will not be rehabilitated and will most definitely hurt, kill or rape people forever.

Is it more civil to lock a person up in a cage for life? Is it , on the flip-side, right to keep alive the kind of people who will hurt or kill again?

Sort of like a pre crime initiative. I accept that it's not without its flaws and it's not necessarily a deterrent but I don't think some people will be deterred and as such I don't see why they should be allowed to live at the expense of future victims.

Given some of the crimes comitted when out on bail, I suppose it's probably more important to fix our current flawed system.... A death penalty would certainly shake things up!

Custardpi

tritium wrote: »

There's a persistent myth that life sentence means release after a handful of years. I'll try to dig out the stats later but I recall a recent report that an average life sentence was about 17 years, with a small number of lifers serving in excess of 30 years

There are many who believe it should be far more. I'd be completely opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances as I think it's barbaric but if a friend or family member was murdered I'd want the perpetuator to serve an absolute minimum of 30 years before the authorities even considered any kind of a release for them. It would be interesting to know how the Irish actual time served figures for murder compared with those of other countries around the world.

Lurkio

jobyrne30 wrote: »

After reading the details on RTE today of the following case I've once again come to the conculsion that there are some people for whom the death sentence is a totally justifiable punishment.

So what does the folks of after hours think?What sentence would you like to see handed down in this and similar cases ?

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0503/785832-rape-life-in-prison/

"A 48-year-old man who raped his girlfriend and her 60-year-old mother has been sentenced to life in prison after a judge said it was the worst case he had ever come across.

Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy said the extremely violent attacks meant it was one of those exceptional cases where a life sentence was appropriate despite a guilty plea.

He imposed eight life sentences to be served at the same time for a number of rape and related offences.

The Waterford man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his victims, had previously served a nine-year sentence for raping his own daughter from a previous relationship.

At the time of these offences, which took place over three days at three locations in Dublin in July 2015, he was on bail for kidnapping and seriously assaulting the same girlfriend the previous year."

Campaigning for a change in the law to make it easier to hand out life sentences for rape would be far more likely to succeed.

JoseWasntReady

I used to be for the death penalty in certain cases too but recently read up on the death penalty in the state of Texas. Cameron Todd Willingham was executed in 2004 for deliberately starting a fire that killed his three young children. He was a bit of an idiot, violent towards his wife and the "experts" were convinced he started the fire. Open and shut case, right? I'd have been calling for him to be strung up too.

In 2009, through advances in technology, it was found that the fire was likely accidental. So he lost his three children, his wife(she didn't believe he was guilty) left him after a year in prison, spent twelve years on death row and he was eventually executed.

valoren

He raped his own daughter, got sentenced, served his time. 9 years. Long time to spend thinking about what you did.
In all likelihood he was afforded substantial rehabilitative counselling.
He was then released and subsequently raped his girlfriend and her mother.

Rehabilitated me hole. Some are beyond help and it's people like that who drive the legitimate question of essentially cutting the state's and society's losses.

Drumpot

tritium wrote: »

I generally detest torture porn typed from the safety of ones keyboard, so no, let's not bring back the death sentence, or as one poster suggested a rape sentence.

Besides, leaving them to rot in prison feels somehow a better option all round

A death sentence is somewhat barbaric but locking somebody in a cage for a lifetime so they can "rot" is in some way more civil? Sounds more sadistic to be honest.

JoseWasntReady

Drumpot wrote: »

A death sentence is somewhat barbaric but locking somebody in a cage for a lifetime so they can "rot" is in some way more civil? Sounds more sadistic to be honest.

If they're still considered a threat to the public and have shown no sign of rehabilitation then they shouldn't be released.

Harry Palmr

Just make life an actual life sentence. I'd have thought people would think about the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six before clamouring for state executions.

mzungu

Longer sentences is the answer here. Keep people like that locked up until they are too old to harm anybody.

Custardpi

True, you can to a limited extent put right wasted years with compensation. You can't bring an executed person back to life.

Panthro

The room should be 4ft squared. Nothing but a pot in the corner to pish into.
And he should be made to work, hard. 12 hr days, walking the roads filling pot holes and collecting rubbish.
And then die.

Drumpot

JoseWasntReady wrote: »

If they're still considered a threat to the public and have shown no sign of rehabilitation then they shouldn't be released.

But how is that a better solution? Why do you feel locking somebody up for the rest of their lives is in anyway better then putting them and others out of misery quickly?

Pro Hoc Vice

mzungu wrote: »

Longer sentences is the answer here. Keep people like that locked up until they are too old to harm anybody.

How can you give a longer sentence than life, the judge imposed 8 life sentences. In Ireland the judge can not release the person the release of person with a life sentence is a matter for the executive.

So I ask the question again how can longer sentences than life be the answer.

Arsemageddon

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No need to lower ourselves to their level.


Just make life = life. No 12 / 14 years. Life meaning you will never be released, you will never have freedom again, you will die behind those walls.

That was true in 2002, but is not the case now. The average length of time served for a life sentence was 22 years in 2012.

The average duration of a life sentence has changed significantly in the last 30 years.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sharp-rise-in-number-of-prisoners-serving-life-terms-1.2097453

Here's an academic paper on which the above is based-
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2550388

Fr_Dougal

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just make life an actual life sentence. I'd have thought people would think about the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six before clamouring for state executions.

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

Custardpi

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How can you give a longer sentence than life, the judge imposed 8 life sentences. In Ireland the judge can not release the person the release of person with a life sentence is a matter for the executive.

I suspect he/she is referring to the actual time served rather than official sentence imposed by the judge. There is an argument for the actual time behind bars of murderers & rapists in this category to be longer than they currently are prior being considered for release by the Minister For Justice.

Custardpi

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

So if we bring back hanging we make a rule only to impose it on guilty people? Can't see that ever going wrong.

Samaris

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

I suspect that was more in a general sense. It's not like the death penalty would be brought back for this one case (which does seem pretty cut and dried) and then stuck in a box again. Thus, future cases, potential future error, etcetera.

eviltwin

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

I think he's referring to cases where innocent people have been jailed for crimes they didn't commit not this case.

I'd have a huge problem with the death penalty seeing as the legal system tends to be harder on certain groups of people, justice is meant to be blind but it's not.

Pro Hoc Vice

Custardpi wrote: »

I suspect he/she is referring to the actual time served rather than official sentence imposed by the judge. There is an argument for the actual time behind bars of murderers & rapists in this category to be longer than they currently are prior being considered for release by the Minister For Justice.

That's a different issue, sentence is sentence release is a non judicial decision. There may an argument for min time served orders or giving the release decision to a judge. But a statement sentences should be longer when talking about a 8 life sentence.

Fr_Dougal

Custardpi wrote: »

So if we bring back hanging we make a rule only to impose it on guilty people? Can't see that ever going wrong.

Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

Mr McBoatface

valoren wrote: »

He raped his own daughter, got sentenced, served his time. 9 years. Long time to spend thinking about what you did.
In all likelihood he was afforded substantial rehabilitative counselling.
He was then released and subsequently raped his girlfriend and her mother.

Rehabilitated me hole. Some are beyond help and it's people like that who drive the legitimate question of essentially cutting the state's and society's losses.

This is exactly my sentiment on the matter. Those of you who haven't read the full article really should. There is absolutely no question of the man's guilt on this , the Garda found the man at the home of the mother who he had bound and raped.

The extent of the mental trauma an event like this can have just can't be measured. The damage done by this man on multiple occasions and the cost to the victims and the state is huge. He doesn't deserve to breath, he is beyond rehabilitation

Custardpi

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

I don't doubt this particular individual's guilt. However, as others have stated, clamouring for the death penalty to be reintroduced in response will almost certainly lead to it being imposed in cases which are not quite as certain. Thus the reference to the Guildford 4, who many at the time would have been delighted to see executed. I'm no bleeding heart & certainly wish the state to be tougher on crime, particularly violent & sexual crime than it is, but calling for prisoners to be killed is a step too far.

Esel

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

You really are missing the point.

Harry Palmr

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

and so were the Six and Four at the time in the eyes of the court, remember?

If a sanction is brought into play you can't assume it'll only be applied to those you believe deserve it and that the judicial system will get it right every time. There are just too many examples to show otherwise for anyone with a thinking brain (rather than a raging heart) to want to see Capital punishment returned.

chillin117

Suffice to say he will not be going to any Family Dinners in the near future.
Mam,Dad,This is Derek.......

Ogogo

This does appear to be a very cruel, sick and disgusting person however, I do not agree with the death penalty, far better to take their liberty and punish them over the longer run. Also as pointed out above history has numerous examples of "unquestionably" guilty people who were found after the fact to be innocent.

On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?

Samaris

Ogogo wrote: »

On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?

This is something that's always confused me too. Anyone know what that's all about? I'm pretty sure my mental image of eight cages nestled inside each other, Russian doll style, with the criminal in the innermost one is probably incorrect!

Mr McBoatface

Harry Palmr wrote: »

and so were the Six and Four at the time in the eyes of the court, remember?

If a sanction is brought into play you can't assume it'll only be applied to those you believe deserve it and that the judicial system will get it right every time. There are just too many examples to show otherwise for anyone with a thinking brain (rather than a raging heart) to want to see Capital punishment returned.

This man plead guilty had previous form, there was voice recording of treats made against one victim with the destressed voice of the second victim captured in the background, he was then caught red handed at the scene with a knife in hand...... The raging heart ain't an issue. In such cases the death sentence should be available.

chillin117

The more High Profile the arrest/trial are the longer they seem to serve. Malcolm Mc Arthur served 30 years. Graham Dwyer will/should do 20 years+

droidman123

The idiots that let him out on bail in the first place should be given the death sentence as well as the toerag who perpetrated those crimes

Harry Palmr

chillin117 wrote: »

The more High Profile the arrest/trial are the longer they seem to serve. Malcolm Mc Arthur served 30 years. Graham Dwyer will/should do 20 years+

Malcolm McArthur made the mistake of involving the unwitting Attorney General - he was always going to pay for that!

and from which we got the term GUBU (ask your dad)

osarusan

I'm against the death penalty in all cases, including this one.

No death penalty in EU in any case, and its abolition is not going to change any time soon.

chillin117

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Malcolm McArthur made the mistake of involving the unwitting Attorney General - he was always going to pay for that!

and from which we got the term GUBU (ask your dad)

Unfortunatly I am old enough to remember it

nullzero

Birneybau wrote: »

Why not a rape sentence?

Death by bum?

Chain Smoker

I don't even understand the cathartic release that people get from typing up fantasy ways of torturing c*nts in threads like this, let alone the actual actions of the c*nts. Does it let you think you're a better person because you're able to express blind rage?

Custardpi

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Malcolm McArthur made the mistake of involving the unwitting Attorney General - he was always going to pay for that!

True, I suspect the embarrassment caused to an important person probably played a far greater role in the number of years he served than the suffering of poor Bridie Gargan. That's Ireland for you, eh?

Arsemageddon

Ogogo wrote: »

This does appear to be a very cruel, sick and disgusting person however, I do not agree with the death penalty, far better to take their liberty and punish them over the longer run. Also as pointed out above history has numerous examples of "unquestionably" guilty people who were found after the fact to be innocent.

On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?

Samaris wrote: »

This is something that's always confused me too. Anyone know what that's all about? I'm pretty sure my mental image of eight cages nestled inside each other, Russian doll style, with the criminal in the innermost one is probably incorrect!

The fact that this piece of sh1t was given 8 life sentences is something that will have to be taken into consideration by the review board which will decide whether to release him or not. I give top marks to the judge for handing down a suitable sentence.

In Ireland, a life sentence doesn't mean that a prisoner is automatically released after 25 years are up. Shaw & Evans (murdered and raped 2 women) have been in prison since 1976. Malcolm McArthur served 30+ years for a single life sentence.

Pro Hoc Vice

Ogogo wrote: »

On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?

How do you think 8 consecutive life sentences would work, reanimation, keeping the body in custody for 8 lives?

jobyrne30

jobyrne30 wrote: »

After reading the details on RTE today of the following case I've once again come to the conculsion that there are some people for whom the death sentence is a totally justifiable punishment.

So what does the folks of after hours think?What sentence would you like to see handed down in this and similar cases ?

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0503/785832-rape-life-in-prison/

"A 48-year-old man who raped his girlfriend and her 60-year-old mother has been sentenced to life in prison after a judge said it was the worst case he had ever come across.

Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy said the extremely violent attacks meant it was one of those exceptional cases where a life sentence was appropriate despite a guilty plea.

He imposed eight life sentences to be served at the same time for a number of rape and related offences.

The Waterford man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his victims, had previously served a nine-year sentence for raping his own daughter from a previous relationship.

At the time of these offences, which took place over three days at three locations in Dublin in July 2015, he was on bail for kidnapping and seriously assaulting the same girlfriend the previous year."

OK so, the first time that they get it wrong will you sacrifice your life to balance it out?

Custardpi

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How do you think 8 consecutive life sentences would work, reanimation, keeping the body in custody for 8 lives?

In the US life sentences can be imposed consecutively I think - leads to sentences of several hundred years. Basically a guarantee that the criminal will never be free rather than a literal sentence of several lifetimes.

Here's one example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader#Legal_proceedings

He was sentenced to serve 10 consecutive life sentences, one life sentence per murder victim. In total, Rader would be eligible for parole after 175 years of imprisonment, in 2180

Obviously he'll be dead long before 2180 but the sentence ensures that he hasn't a hope in hell of ever being released.

Lackey

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How do you think 8 consecutive life sentences would work, reanimation, keeping the body in custody for 8 lives?

I'm sure the poster means that life would mean life, no parole..like in America where you hear of sentences of 100+ years
Soft sentancing, 50-100 previous convictions, acceptance of 'I didn't mean to kill him when I jumped on his face' defence crap needs to end
Pathetic 9 years for raping his daughter was not enough and led to this.

mzungu

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How can you give a longer sentence than life, the judge imposed 8 life sentences. In Ireland the judge can not release the person the release of person with a life sentence is a matter for the executive.

So I ask the question again how can longer sentences than life be the answer.

I meant the time spent in jail.