Bayern v Atletico

City will do alright. They've won't be the only team spending big

Strumms

Cienciano wrote: »

A lot of man-u fans still have a hard on for ronaldo. I'd love to see Atletico win it

A lot of united fans would have a hard on for Ronaldo ?.. being back in a United shirt maybe... As for what he does with Madrid ? I don't think so... they are basically a European rival.... As a United fan I'll be looking for an Athletico win regardless of who they get to play... nice to see a club who has not won it before win it I think...

TheCitizen

Mushy wrote: »

Tv3 too. They showed it on analysis with the line line of alabas foot, not one bit of griezmann was beyond that line. From the first replay I would've said offside too, but I also wouldn't care

Well, I still think Atletico were lucky to go through.

monkey9

Cienciano wrote: »

A lot of man-u fans still have a hard on for ronaldo. I'd love to see Atletico win it

Well that'd be another reason, i suppose. But just as a footballing story, Real have won it so many times, it'd be nice to see Atletico win it and have a new name on the trophy.

ionadnapokot

Skylinehead wrote: »

https://streamable.com/5iqn

Onside from that angle.

Great ball from Torres. Literally the only good piece of play I saw from him.

I thought Gabi was exceptional throughout. Usual brilliance in getting into position and anticipating play. Some great touches- loved his turn away from Alonso on the 14 min mark. Would love to know how much ground he covered....
And Simeone! He must cover a solid 10k per match!

gosplan

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Pep has lost 5 of 7 CL Semi finals with the best squads you can have

City is going to be a wake up call but he'll probably smash transfer records this summer

Defensive teams do better in knock out competitions.

I think that's all there is to it.

While Pep prioritises attacking football, his teams will be vulnerable in knock out competitions at the highest level.

I don't think it's a question of legacy or achievement. It's just a reality of football.

ionadnapokot

RoboKlopp wrote: »

First time I've ever heard Guardiola being called tactically naive!

There is history here in fairness. Particularly at centre back. And Any managers who picks Alaba at CB deserves serious questions to be asked of them.

Andersonisgod

My brain hurts reading this thread, some of these posts should be quarantined and never released.

Richard Hillman

The guy that Simone hit was an Atletico guy. He was probably too slow with the sub instructions. I doubt he will get punished and should be available for the Final to get suspended again.

Rayne Wooney

gosplan wrote: »

Defensive teams do better in knock out competitions.

I think that's all there is to it.

While Pep prioritises attacking football, his teams will be vulnerable in knock out competitions at the highest level.

I don't think it's a question of legacy or achievement. It's just a reality of football.

How many winners and runner ups of the past 16 years have been defensive teams?

I would say it's a minority

Shanotheslayer

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

How many winners and runner ups of the past 16 years have been defensive teams?

I would say it's a minority

Every team is a defensive team against a Pep team. :pac:

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

How many winners and runner ups of the past 16 years have been defensive teams?

I would say it's a minority

Remember this?

Man Utd 1-0 Barcelona 2008

That was a defensive display from Utd

Just saying

galwaylad14

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Great ball from Torres. Literally the only good piece of play I saw from him.

I thought Gabi was exceptional throughout. Usual brilliance in getting into position and anticipating play. Some great touches- loved his turn away from Alonso on the 14 min mark. Would love to know how much ground he covered....
And Simeone! He must cover a solid 10k per match!

Very harsh on Torres there. He was a striker in a team that was on the back foot and starved of possession all night, he worked himself into the ground to close down Bayern defenders and midfielders. When the chance presented itself he played a glorious through ball for Griezman to score the vital goal on the night.

He also won the penalty that would have sealed their passage to the final, I know he ended up missing it but as brilliant a player as he has been, he's never been a penalty taker (think of his 100 or so goals at Liverpool none were penalties). Had Griezman still been on the pitch to score that penalty Torres' performance would have got a lot more praise.

He's not the free scoring world class striker he was at Liverpool but he's a very good striker for Simeone's system, works hard, very clever in his movement and touches and has improved a lot on his goal scoring this season compared to his last 4 or 5 seasons.

Domo1982

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Remember this?

Man Utd 1-0 Barcelona 2008

That was a defensive display from Utd

Just saying

Remember these?

Barcelona 2 - 0 Man Utd 2009
Barcelona 3 - 1 Man Utd 2011

They were masterclass offensive displays

Why do you make it so easy for us Mick?!!!??

Just saying!

Domo1982

Domo1982 wrote: »

Remember these?

Barcelona 2 - 0 Man Utd 2009
Barcelona 3 - 1 Man Utd 2011

They were masterclass offensive displays

Why do you make it so easy for us Mick?!!!??

Just saying!

My point was that there can be plenty of examples of teams setting up in both an attacking and defensive manner and still be a great team either way.

That was an example when Utd got it right. What you posted above were examples of when Utd got it all wrong.

Simeone knows how to setup Athletico Madrid against teams which player for player are superior and still produce the results.
A fine tactician.
Also they play some direct football and quick counter attack.
Didn't Leicester win the league doing something similar? I think so.

CSF

There are parallels in the Atletico and Leicester sides for sure. People who watch more Premier League than La Liga might not see them though because obviously Atletico approach games against Granada and Betis (or even Sevilla and Valencia) differently than they do Barca or Bayern.

Atletico are just as capable of attacking as they are defending and I think that was shown by the first half against Bayern in the 1st Leg and the first half against Barca in both legs. On both occasions, the goals looked like coming before they came. Atletico were on top. The Griezmann goal may have been a snatch and grab counter attack, but the others came after sustained spells of pressure against great sides. Of course when you've a lead against teams with this attacking quality in them, you don't go toe to toe with them when you know you're capable of defending as well as Atletico do.

jmayo

TheCitizen wrote: »

No it's because they're masters at cheating. Everyone cheats a bit when necessary including Leicester but Atletico have it down to a tee.

Unlike Bayern whose star forward dives ala Klinsman and tries to get players sent as in when he collapsed in a heap when touched by Juanfran.

Or maybe he has taken lessons from that other great Bayern diver Mr Robben.

And yet it is Atleti that are labelled the cheaters.

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Simeone is the equivilant of Suarez is management form.

Brilliant at his job, but a classless wa*ker :pac:

I think that title goes to Mourinho.
AFAIK Simeone hasn't engaged in eye gouging yet.

I just find it a bit juvenile when people complain about the likes of Atleti and their negative tactics based on defense.
Are they supposed to go toe to toe with teams with vastly superior players with more skill and ability ?

Only an idiot would do that against teams like Barca and Bayern.

It looks like according to some the smaller and less funded clubs are just meant to provide a token opposition to the big boys, just so that we can see the big boys show their wares ?

You play to your strengths and their strength is in organisation, defense, and counter attack.

Rayne Wooney

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Remember this?

Man Utd 1-0 Barcelona 2008

That was a defensive display from Utd

Just saying

There's a difference between being defensive as a tactic on a certain day and the suggestion that defensive teams do better in the tournament though.

Plenty of top teams will look to defend well and hit the likes of Barca and Bayern on the counter purely because it's proven to be the best way to beat them, you'll never win the possession against those teams if they want it, and if you try to beat them at their own game you will lose.

Atletico are an outlier, Simeone could conform to the beautiful football ideology and be forgotten or he could keep doing what he's doing and be incredibly successful, 2 CL finals, a Europa Cup, a league title all whilst he's being blown out of the water spending wise by the Goliath teams in his own league and even more so in Europe.

Jelle1880

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Simeone is the equivilant of Suarez is management form.

Brilliant at his job, but a classless wa*ker :pac:

Difference is is that Simeone is cool as **** when he's being a wanker.

SlickRic

The idea that Bayern or Barca are 'attacking teams' is a misnomer. It's actually a lazy term, just like 'defensive team'.

The amount of anadine possession they have in a game is as defensive as any good tackle.

The quick, incisive, direct football of Leicester or Atletico can be just as 'attacking'. Just because it doesn't involve dozens of angle changes in attack, or 30 pass moves doesn't make it less 'attacking'.

A_Sober_Paddy

SlickRic wrote: »

The idea that Bayern or Barca are 'attacking teams' is a misnomer. It's actually a lazy term, just like 'defensive team'.

The amount of anadine possession they have in a game is as defensive as any good tackle.

The quick, incisive, direct football of Leicester or Atletico can be just as 'attacking'. Just because it doesn't involve dozens of angle changes in attack, or 30 pass moves doesn't make it less 'attacking'.

The possession stat is a pep stat, with Barca they dominated with possession but also the best players all playing together. Pep's time are bayern can't be classed as successful, needed to win a European cup for that, as his predecessor did with weaker team

gosplan

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

How many winners and runner ups of the past 16 years have been defensive teams?

I would say it's a minority

That's kind of a tricky question to answer.

I may as well ask you how many attacking teams have won it?

The point is that in knock out football you have to have a strong defence in your locker. You can switch between modes but when there comes a time where not conceding is more important, you have to be able to grind that out.

Yesterday after Bayern scored, the one crucial thing they had to do was not concede. I just don't think Pep's setup allows for that.

I probably phrased it wrong in that it's not about being defensive but you need to be able to be nothing but defensive at times.

Bayern weren't. They conceded 2 over 2 legs against Atletico and you can't afford to so that.

It's an admirable approach but not always pragmatic. Especially in knockout competitions.

dfx-

SantryRed wrote: »

It's more than luck to play how they do. People do not give this Atletico team half as much credit as they deserve.

They don't get credit because they're always on the verge of going out or losing control. PSV, last night, Barcelona, CL final, Gijon. Also some people still go with the mistaken idea they are plucky underdogs.

They are extremely good at what they do, but they are also not easily watchable. See one Atletico game, you've seen them all. In four identical games this season against Barcelona, they've won one and lost three, so it's not very successful either. The final will be exactly the same.

Rezident

CSF wrote: »

There wasn't that much cheating. I think people are just working off a narrative. Atletico killed no more time than anyone defending a lead against a team as good as Bayern.

The running down of Pep is a bit sad too.

Yes where did all the Pep-hatred come from, is it an anti-Man City thing or just because he is successful and people want to knock him down?

Atletico are awful cheaters though, watching them every week, they would do anything to win - did you see them throwing the extra ball on to the pitch against Malaga last week? Hilarious but blatant cheating, not to mention the usual diving and time-wasting etc. Simeone would do anything to win, and it works and he's a great character but when he crosses the line it is foul and ugly and it should not be allowed just because lots of people still think they are a 'small' club.

Fair play to Atletico, I hope they win the final and I hope they play more attacking football, as they are actually brilliant when they do. It's just a shame that they only create so rarely despite their wonderfully creative players and spend the rest of the time defending and time-wasting etc. Each to their own, but I'd rather watch beautiful creative football rather than just pure destruction. Atletico will grind out a 1-nil win in the final and it will be painful to watch at times. Can you imagine Bayern attacking like last night plus Robben v Messi, Neymar, Suarez and Iniesta? Now that could have been beautiful football. We can dream.

fyfe79

dfx- wrote: »

They are extremely good at what they do, but they are also not easily watchable. See one Atletico game, you've seen them all. In four identical games this season against Barcelona, they've won one and lost three, so it's not very successful either. The final will be exactly the same.

Don't really agree with this. Didn't Atleti have a better head to head with Barcelona last season? Earlier this season they were in poor enough form but have improved recently and knocked out Barca over the two most recent games.

If you've seen them only against the giants of the game then, yeah, you've seen their usual approach to this type of opponent. But when playing teams who are equal or inferior, they play some lovely stuff and are usually on the front foot. It's just that the only Atleti games we tend to watch over here are those against only Barca, Real, Bayern etc.

CSF

Rezident wrote: »

Yes where did all the Pep-hatred come from, is it an anti-Man City thing or just because he is successful and people want to knock him down?

Atletico are awful cheaters though, watching them every week, they would do anything to win - did you see them throwing the extra ball on to the pitch against Malaga last week? Hilarious but blatant cheating, not to mention the usual diving and time-wasting etc. Simeone would do anything to win, and it works and he's a great character but when he crosses the line it is foul and ugly and it should not be allowed just because lots of people still think they are a 'small' club.

Fair play to Atletico, I hope they win the final and I hope they play more attacking football, as they are actually brilliant when they do. It's just a shame that they only create so rarely despite their wonderfully creative players and spend the rest of the time defending and time-wasting etc. Each to their own, but I'd rather watch beautiful creative football rather than just pure destruction. Atletico will grind out a 1-nil win in the final and it will be painful to watch at times. Can you imagine Bayern attacking like last night plus Robben v Messi, Neymar, Suarez and Iniesta? Now that could have been beautiful football. We can dream.

Atletico have had their nights for sure. I was just pointing out that last night wasn't really one of those. Not much really went on. They won fair and square. I'm glad the contentious penalty wasn't scored because it would have been a black mark on a great victory

dfx-

fyfe79 wrote: »

Don't really agree with this. Didn't Atleti have a better head to head with Barcelona last season? Earlier this season they were in poor enough form but have improved recently and knocked out Barca over the two most recent games.

If you've seen them only against the giants of the game then, yeah, you've seen their usual approach to this type of opponent. But when playing teams who are equal or inferior, they play some lovely stuff and are usually on the front foot. It's just that the only Atleti games we tend to watch over here are those against only Barca, Real, Bayern etc.

No, Barcelona beat Atletico home and away last season in the league (indeed winning the league by winning at the Calderon) and beat them in the Copa del Rey (the famous boot throwing at the linesman).

They play exactly the same way regardless if they're giants or minnows. They are very low scorers, they've won the last three La Liga games 1-0 against Athletic, Malaga and lowly, defensively porous Rayo and had to throw a second ball on the pitch against Malaga. They'd be top of the league now had they not tried to hold onto a 1-0 lead at relegation threatened Gijon and lost 2-1. Their 0-0 draw at home to similarly defensive Villarreal was an awful game.

It's the same game every time, good or bad side they're facing.

Turtwig

fyfe79 wrote: »

Don't really agree with this. Didn't Atleti have a better head to head with Barcelona last season? Earlier this season they were in poor enough form but have improved recently and knocked out Barca over the two most recent games.

Enriques Barca have played Atletico eight times - won seven.

TheCitizen

There's a level of cynicism with Atletico that goes beyond the plucky underdog with their backs to the wall securing the scalps of more expensive and illustrious sides. Every neutral was delighted for Leicester in the EPL for example and there are parallels between Atletico and Leicester in terms of professional application and team spirit. Also every team will waste time and run the ball into the corner when they are ahead in a game and time is running out. However Atletico have adopted delaying and disrupting tactics over and above the norm in a cynical fashion.

Against Barcelona for example when Barca won a throw in, the Barca player would go to receive the ball, the ballboy wouldn't give the ball back, the player would have to get another ball from somewhere and when they did, the ball boy or someone else hanging around on the side of the pitch would throw a second ball on the pitch. They do stuff like this all the time and it's a central part of their set up. There's a level of cynicism ingrained in the club. Normally I'd be no fan of Real Madrid, but on this occasion I hope they stop this lot from being rewarded in the Final.

CSF

dfx- wrote: »

No, Barcelona beat Atletico home and away last season in the league (indeed winning the league by winning at the Calderon) and beat them in the Copa del Rey (the famous boot throwing at the linesman).

They play exactly the same way regardless if they're giants or minnows. They are very low scorers, they've won the last three La Liga games 1-0 against Athletic, Malaga and lowly, defensively porous Rayo and had to throw a second ball on the pitch against Malaga. They'd be top of the league now had they not tried to hold onto a 1-0 lead at relegation threatened Gijon and lost 2-1. Their 0-0 draw at home to similarly defensive Villarreal was an awful game.

It's the same game every time, good or bad side they're facing.

They're 3rd top goalscorers in La Liga though with an average of near enough 2 goals a game. Close enough to what Leicester and Tottenham are. Better than Arsenal. It just looks bad when you look at a league table because they're beside Barca and Real who can beat teams 7 or 8 nil on any given week. Atletico don't have that in their locker but they've scored 2 or more goals in 17 of their 36 league games. Not bad going for a 'defensive' team.

TheCitizen

The officials will have a part to play, big challenge for them to keep an eye on everything A Madrid in particular get up to. I think they should sit down and devise a strategy to combat their cynicism and stamp them out.

Mushy

TheCitizen wrote: »

The officials will have a part to play, big challenge for them to keep an eye on everything A Madrid in particular get up to. I think they should sit down and devise a strategy to combat their cynicism and stamp them out.

The refs need to keep an eye on the actions of Atletico vs a team containing Pepe, Marcelo and Ramos? Fair enough not liking a team, but show some fairness in this one.

TheCitizen

Mushy wrote: »

The refs need to keep an eye on the actions of Atletico vs a team containing Pepe, Marcelo and Ramos? Fair enough not liking a team, but show some fairness in this one.

Like I said, all teams deploy underhand tactics and time wasting etc., but Atletico have an extra layer of it. The problem is that the opposition can often descend to meeting fire with fire with A Madrid and then both teams are at fault, that's what makes A Madrid particularly corrosive in my view.

eagle eye

TheCitizen wrote: »

There's a level of cynicism with Atletico that goes beyond the plucky underdog with their backs to the wall securing the scalps of more expensive and illustrious sides. Every neutral was delighted for Leicester in the EPL for example and there are parallels between Atletico and Leicester in terms of professional application and team spirit. Also every team will waste time and run the ball into the corner when they are ahead in a game and time is running out. However Atletico have adopted delaying and disrupting tactics over and above the norm in a cynical fashion.

Against Barcelona for example when Barca won a throw in, the Barca player would go to receive the ball, the ballboy wouldn't give the ball back, the player would have to get another ball from somewhere and when they did, the ball boy or someone else hanging around on the side of the pitch would throw a second ball on the pitch. They do stuff like this all the time and it's a central part of their set up. There's a level of cynicism ingrained in the club. Normally I'd be no fan of Real Madrid, but on this occasion I hope they stop this lot from being rewarded in the Final.

I've said myself that we've been spoiled as football fans over the last ten years or so with beautiful attacking football and during games I start shouting for the other team when Atletico are playing.

They play a very similar style of football to Leicester City which is a ridiculously well disciplined defensive set up and then an extremely fast counter attack.

Real Madrid were trying to go to the corner flag last night. This is a team who has two players playing on either side of the pitch who cost €80+ million, that turns me back to wanting Atletico to win.

Mushy

TheCitizen wrote: »

Like I said, all teams deploy underhand tactics and time wasting etc., but Atletico have an extra layer of it. The problem is that the opposition can often descend to meeting fire with fire with A Madrid and then both teams are at fault, that's what makes A Madrid particularly corrosive in my view.

Over the last two nights both did pretty much the exact same stuff every team would do.

The extra layer is stuff that happens so rarely (ballboy literally throwing ball onto pitch). Don't forget, had Bayern been winning the tie, they wouldn't return the ball so quickly as they were. As it's a neutral venue, it'll be the same all match so would rule it out.

Real won't need to stoop to anyone's level, they go there themselves

sReq | uTeK

Andersonisgod wrote: »

My brain hurts reading this thread, some of these posts should be quarantined and never released.

You'd find this sentiment is issued a lot regarding threads you're in....just saying

Dirty Dingus McGee

TheCitizen wrote: »

Like I said, all teams deploy underhand tactics and time wasting etc., but Atletico have an extra layer of it. The problem is that the opposition can often descend to meeting fire with fire with A Madrid and then both teams are at fault, that's what makes A Madrid particularly corrosive in my view.

But surely that's the other teams fault for falling into their trap.

TheCitizen

Mushy wrote: »

Over the last two nights both did pretty much the exact same stuff every team would do.

The extra layer is stuff that happens so rarely (ballboy literally throwing ball onto pitch). Don't forget, had Bayern been winning the tie, they wouldn't return the ball so quickly as they were. As it's a neutral venue, it'll be the same all match so would rule it out.

Real won't need to stoop to anyone's level, they go there themselves

The extra layer is where they bring in new levels of cynicism. Everyone wants to win, but if everyone copied A Madrid with the extra layer of cynicism, games would descend into squabbling and disruption. They'll find ways of disrupting play over and above the norm in a neutral venue as well if it suits them. There's plenty of cynicism in professional football, it's bad enough without A Madrid inventing new forms of cynicism. If there was a league table for cynicism, they'd be top of the pile. I hope they lose.

TheCitizen

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But surely that's the other teams fault for falling into their trap.

Aye it is yes, which makes it all the more corrosive. The officials also have a big part to play to try to stamp it out.

Jelle1880

TheCitizen wrote: »

Like I said, all teams deploy underhand tactics and time wasting etc., but Atletico have an extra layer of it. The problem is that the opposition can often descend to meeting fire with fire with A Madrid and then both teams are at fault, that's what makes A Madrid particularly corrosive in my view.

I think what they do isn't worse than for example the constant falling over that teams like Barca and Real employ, especially in the Clásico.

TheCitizen

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I think what they do isn't worse than for example the constant falling over that teams like Barca and Real employ, especially in the Clásico.

They do the falling over as well. I think Atletico have brought new elements of cynicism into the game. Winners tend to have an influence on others, I wouldn't like to see others copy some of the disruption tactics that A Madrid have been deploying, new layers of cynicism over and above what is already there. That's why I hope they lose.

Mushy

TheCitizen wrote: »

They do the falling over as well. I think Atletico have brought new elements of cynicism into the game. Winners tend to have an influence on others, I wouldn't like to see others copy some of the disruption tactics that A Madrid have been deploying, new layers of cynicism over and above what is already there. That's why I hope they lose.

What are these new layers you talk about?

TheCitizen

Mushy wrote: »

What are these new layers you talk about?

Throwing extra balls onto the pitch. Calculated touchside "meltdowns" at opportune moments to cause as much disruption as possible. They all engage in gamesmanship to some degree to try and win, but Atletico have brought it to a new level and have invented new ways of being cynical. I think a lot of it is unnecessary and could end up being counter productive, they've still never won the CL or European Cup in their history. I reckon the officials will be watching them closely in the Final.

Mushy

TheCitizen wrote: »

Throwing extra balls onto the pitch. Calculated touchside "meltdowns" at opportune moments to cause as much disruption as possible. They all engage in gamesmanship to some degree to try and win, but Atletico have brought it to a new level and have invented new ways of being cynical. I think a lot of it is unnecessary and could end up being counter productive, they've still never won the CL or European Cup in their history. I reckon the officials will be watching them closely in the Final.

Hasn't the extra ball thing happened once? Simeone appears to be having a meltdown from the start, that's about the extent of any extra layers they may systematically go to.

There isn't much extra stuff they do in comparison. It's easy to use it as a stick to beat them with though cos Brady said they're cynical. Zero clubs would not do it, it's just a handy way to go against Atletico cos their style of play doesn't match what some like.

As I said, fair enough if you don't like them, but they're no worse than their final opponents or anyone else.

Should definitely lump on Simeone red card though!

TheCitizen

Mushy wrote: »

Hasn't the extra ball thing happened once? Simeone appears to be having a meltdown from the start, that's about the extent of any extra layers they may systematically go to.

There isn't much extra stuff they do in comparison. It's easy to use it as a stick to beat them with though cos Brady said they're cynical. Zero clubs would not do it, it's just a handy way to go against Atletico cos their style of play doesn't match what some like.

As I said, fair enough if you don't like them, but they're no worse than their final opponents or anyone else.

Should definitely lump on Simeone red card though!

I think they are a little bit worse than everyone else when it comes to cynical playacting.

dfx-

CSF wrote: »

They're 3rd top goalscorers in La Liga though with an average of near enough 2 goals a game. Close enough to what Leicester and Tottenham are. Better than Arsenal. It just looks bad when you look at a league table because they're beside Barca and Real who can beat teams 7 or 8 nil on any given week. Atletico don't have that in their locker but they've scored 2 or more goals in 17 of their 36 league games. Not bad going for a 'defensive' team.

Atletico have also only scored more than three once in a league where teams are not that concerned by how many they lose by against the top teams.

Granada could afford to lose to Madrid 8-0 in their relegation battle last season because it's head-to-head with the sides around them that matters. Rayo can afford to lose 10-2 and employ kamikaze tactics defending, but Atletico struggle to get one against them.

One is enough ultimately, but it's not that they go into another gear and play nice stuff against poor teams. They don't.

CSF

dfx- wrote: »

Atletico have also only scored more than three once in a league where teams are not that concerned by how many they lose by against the top teams.

Granada could afford to lose to Madrid 8-0 in their relegation battle last season because it's head-to-head with the sides around them that matters. Rayo can afford to lose 10-2 and employ kamikaze tactics defending, but Atletico struggle to get one against them.

One is enough ultimately, but it's not that they go into another gear and play nice stuff against poor teams. They don't.

I don't think that's a stat that holds though, Barcelona and Real seem to be pretty much the only teams anywhere capable of these kinds of scores.

Like its a given that Atletico are not Barca or Real in terms of attacking danger, I mean you're talking about Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Messi, Suarez, Neymar here. I don't think that's a La Liga thing, those front 3s would score goals for fun anywhere.

The argument is not that Atletico are attacking in the way that these teams are, merely that they're not low scorers or short attacking options. Obviously their key strength is in defence, particularly the ability to win the ball back early before it reaches the box. But the goal tally only looks bad when compared to teams with those sort of players mentioned above. Unfortunately you can't have those players unless you have ****loads of cash to buy them and keep them.