Guardiola's Legacy at Bayern

CSF

Turtwig wrote: »

Have to agree it seems to me the "plan B" involves simply lumping the ball into the box. Simple math says when the defending team has 8 players back odds are they're going to clear it and then they have all that space to launch into a counter attack. In other words, that kind of plan B will end up being chastised as high line naivety because well most of the time the team if they're any bit technically competent will be able to launch an effective counter attack. The critics of "not having a plan B" end up giving themselves a feedback loop where playing their desired plan B leads to no plan B leading to more you should be playing a plan B.

Plan B in my eyes is simply taking more risks by committing more players forward, playing more vertical and pressing higher, hoping to win 50/50s and get a break. It looks like Bayern did that in the last 15 minutes. When you only need one goal it's irresponsible to play that way any earlier in the game.

I think Plan B is a genuine thing for posession teams where ball retention doesn't necessarily equate to controlling the attacking flow of the game. For those sides having the ball and controlling the play can frequently become less important as the game nears its end, than the sheer amount of attacks you can create in a game, maximising the amount of half-chances you can create in the hope of stealing something.

This doesn't apply to teams like Barca, Bayern and what I assume Pep's City will aim to be next year, where they're creating just as many opportunities anyway.

eagle eye

Bayern found it almost impossible to get a shot on target against Atletico in the first game.

Some type of plan B is needed when you are not able to get a shot on target. I just suggested a big man and somebody who can cross the ball as one way to go about it. I said I hadn't a clue what he needed to do to create an alternative which might have some success but something is needed when you aren't able to create chances.

He doesn't have to change his system completely to make things work. Bring in the big man put in a cross or two and you are going to spread out the defense a bit and then your ground game has a better chance of finding a hole and creating chances.

Again the last paragraph is just a suggestion of something. I'm not saying it would work, I'm just suggesting alternatives that might work.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

Bayern found it almost impossible to get a shot on target against Atletico in the first game.

Some type of plan B is needed when you are not able to get a shot on target. I just suggested a big man and somebody who can cross the ball as one way to go about it. I said I hadn't a clue what he needed to do to create an alternative which might have some success but something is needed when you aren't able to create chances.

He doesn't have to change his system completely to make things work. Bring in the big man put in a cross or two and you are going to spread out the defense a bit and then your ground game has a better chance of finding a hole and creating chances.

Again the last paragraph is just a suggestion of something. I'm not saying it would work, I'm just suggesting alternatives that might work.

Lewandowski is a big guy. It's not as if Bayern completely abandon the idea of putting crosses in, the second goal came from one. Varying the method of attack doesn't come down to plan As and plan Bs, it's just smart tactics.

Lumping it up to the big man (plan b so to speak) is another matter though and I don't think good teams benefit from that.

Andersonisgod

I don't care to get into any detail about this because looking at some of the replies to this thread at times it feels a bit like the scientist going into the primary school class to explain science, so I'm just going to comment on the "Plan B" thing.

"Plan B" is a phrase football fans and pundits sometimes use when they don't know what they are talking about. The purveyors of this phrase are often red faced, puffy cheeked and exasperated. They know not of which they speak. It's a go-to phrase to lambast those things which are beyond their realms of comprehension. Their primitive instincts lead them to believe that unless you are taking a more agricultural route to football, which requires somebody blasting a ball high into the air every few moments and a giant Lord of the Rings troll type figure smashing into anything that moves to win a knockdown, then you do not have a Plan B.

The reality is that one of the reasons Pep Guardiola is so renowned as a coach within coaching circles and across the game is because he's a coach who has proven time and again to be able to produce so many solutions over the course of 90 minutes. Like a great chess player he is proactive, he sees many moves ahead and, when needs be, he is quick to react. In any single game you may see him change the shape of his side numerous times, you may see his teams switch the point of their attack or change up their approach play. He's constantly tweaking, constantly keeping his opponents guessing and he provides his players with a variety of solutions. In this century, there is no coach as tactically innovative or tactically flexible as Guardiola. He's inspired a generation of coaches.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't care to get into any detail about this because looking at some of the replies to this thread at times it feels a bit like the scientist going into the primary school class to explain science, so I'm just going to comment on the "Plan B" thing.

"Plan B" is a phrase football fans and pundits sometimes use when they don't know what they are talking about. The purveyors of this phrase are often red faced, puffy cheeked and exasperated. They know not of which they speak. It's a go-to phrase to lambast those things which are beyond their realms of comprehension. Their primitive instincts lead them to believe that unless you are taking a more agricultural route to football, which requires somebody blasting a ball high into the air every few moments and a giant Lord of the Rings troll type figure smashing into anything that moves to win a knockdown, then you do not have a Plan B.

The reality is that one of the reasons Pep Guardiola is so renowned as a coach within coaching circles and across the game is because he's a coach who has proven time and again to be able to produce so many solutions over the course of 90 minutes. Like a great chess player he is proactive, he sees many moves ahead and, when needs be, he is quick to react. In any single game you may see him change the shape of his side numerous times, you may see his teams switch the point of their attack or change up their approach play. He's constantly tweaking, constantly keeping his opponents guessing and he provides his players with a variety of solutions. In this century, there is no coach as tactically innovative or tactically flexible as Guardiola. He's inspired a generation of coaches.

That has to be one of the funniest and most condescending post that I've ever read on this website.

chopperbyrne

How many solutions did he produce over the course of 180 minutes against Atletico?

They never changed, so surely he should have come up with something to beat them?

Andersonisgod

chopperbyrne wrote: »

How many solutions did he produce over the course of 180 minutes against Atletico?

They never changed, so surely he should have come up with something to beat them?

Entirely incorrect and misjudged. One mistake on a counter attack and a missed penalty was the difference in the 2nd leg, aside from that they produced a near perfect performance scoring twice against a , they were stunning on the night, the issue was the lack of an away goal. But in some people's narrow views, if you lose you're terrible, if you win you're great, I won't waste my time debating with such people because they aren't worth it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Entirely incorrect and misjudged. One mistake on a counter attack and a missed penalty was the difference in the 2nd leg, aside from that they produced a near perfect performance scoring twice against a , they were stunning on the night, the issue was the lack of an away goal. But in some people's narrow views, if you lose you're terrible, if you win you're great, I won't waste my time debating with such people because they aren't worth it.

To be honest that's pretty much the way sport works.

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Entirely incorrect and misjudged. One mistake on a counter attack and a missed penalty was the difference in the 2nd leg, aside from that they produced a near perfect performance scoring twice against a , they were stunning on the night, the issue was the lack of an away goal. But in some people's narrow views, if you lose you're terrible, if you win you're great, I won't waste my time debating with such people because they aren't worth it.

Athletico missed a peno too....

Andersonisgod

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Athletico missed a peno too....

At 2-0 it's an entirely different game. Ultimately Atletico's penalty miss was inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

chopperbyrne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Entirely incorrect and misjudged. One mistake on a counter attack and a missed penalty was the difference in the 2nd leg, aside from that they produced a near perfect performance scoring twice against a , they were stunning on the night, the issue was the lack of an away goal. But in some people's narrow views, if you lose you're terrible, if you win you're great, I won't waste my time debating with such people because they aren't worth it.

You don't have a good answer so you'll just dismiss the question.

Andersonisgod

chopperbyrne wrote: »

You don't have a good answer so you'll just dismiss the question.

Actually my answer is great. It's the exact mentality that Roy Keane used to mock "you lose you're awful, you win you're great." It's such a black and white way of looking at things that somebody who can only see football in such a way is not going to lead to a compelling or thought-provoking football debate thus isn't worth it.

bucketybuck

So many words to say so little.

Andersonisgod

bucketybuck wrote: »

So many words to say so little.

The amount of stuff I've touched on in a few comments is actually quite considerable, all of which could be expanded on greatly if required. Incredibly, all of which doesn't even get into the greater topic of Guardiola's legacy at Bayern because I'm simply not going to discuss that topic, rather I just wanted to address the nonsensical notion that Pep, the most tactically innovative coach of this century, has "no plan B"

rob316

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That has to be one of the funniest and most condescending post that I've ever read on this website.

I know thought the same. I'm curious AIG have you ever actually played the game at any level?

bucketybuck

rob316 wrote: »

I know thought the same. I'm curious AIG have you ever actually played the game at any level?

He's playing one right now.

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't care to get into any detail about this because looking at some of the replies to this thread at times it feels a bit like the scientist going into the primary school class to explain science, so I'm just going to comment on the "Plan B" thing.

"Plan B" is a phrase football fans and pundits sometimes use when they don't know what they are talking about. The purveyors of this phrase are often red faced, puffy cheeked and exasperated. They know not of which they speak. It's a go-to phrase to lambast those things which are beyond their realms of comprehension. Their primitive instincts lead them to believe that unless you are taking a more agricultural route to football, which requires somebody blasting a ball high into the air every few moments and a giant Lord of the Rings troll type figure smashing into anything that moves to win a knockdown, then you do not have a Plan B.

The reality is that one of the reasons Pep Guardiola is so renowned as a coach within coaching circles and across the game is because he's a coach who has proven time and again to be able to produce so many solutions over the course of 90 minutes. Like a great chess player he is proactive, he sees many moves ahead and, when needs be, he is quick to react. In any single game you may see him change the shape of his side numerous times, you may see his teams switch the point of their attack or change up their approach play. He's constantly tweaking, constantly keeping his opponents guessing and he provides his players with a variety of solutions. In this century, there is no coach as tactically innovative or tactically flexible as Guardiola. He's inspired a generation of coaches.

Unfortunately they don't give out CL final places for that. You need to actually win, which obviously Guadiola didn't get around to doing with all that inspiring he was busy doing.

Still though, fair play typing all that out with only one hand available to type

Rayne Wooney

I don't think we'll see Guardiola test himself in his career, I think his next clubs will be the likes of PSG, back to Barca or into international management with Spain or Brazil

I think he's behind Ancelotti and Mourinho of the currently active managers and he'll stay that way in the history books as things stand

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

Unfortunately they don't give out CL final places for that. You need to actually win, which obviously Guadiola didn't get around to doing with all that inspiring he was busy doing.

Still though, fair play typing all that out with only one hand available to type

I don't like to judge managers purely on titles won because you lose out on so many factors that are important too. However since you want to play the "who won what game" I'll play.

Number of titles won since 2008/2009

Guardiola- 20

Mourinho- 10

Ancelotti- 8

Simeone- 6

Benitez- 5

Klopp- 5

Van Gaal- 4

Guardiola is the first league manager to win three league titles in Spain and Germany.

Guardiola: 20 titles in 8 years
Ancelotti: 17 titles in 21 years
Heynckes: 12 titles in 34 years
Del Bosque: 10 titles in 22 years
Sacchi: 8 titles in 16 years

By the way, for those saying that Bayern Munich didn't have any competition this season, Borrussia Dortmund would have won the league title in all but 3 editions of the Bundesliga with their points total, so I'd say it's not exactly the 1 horse race that some like to paint it as.

These stats have been shamelessly stolen from Twitter.

Boom.

*Anderersonisgod drops the mic and leaves the stage.

Andersonisgod

rob316 wrote: »

I know thought the same. I'm curious AIG have you ever actually played the game at any level?

Not professionally, though I don't believe you have to have had trials with Nottingham Forrest when you were 15 to have a deeper understanding of the game than "they lost so they must be s**t." I can speak confidently on topics like Guardiola because I watch his teams extensively, because I read his translated quotes, I read (good) articles about his teams and I've read a few books about Guardiola too. All of these things combined give me good insight into the topic of Guardiola, which I can then place against my backdrop of wider football knowledge, gained through the same means as I the Pep stuff. I wont try to bulls*** you, I wont try to talk about something of which I don't know, if I'm commenting on something in any kind of detail then chances are I have a fairly good working knowledge of that topic and I'll be able to speak about it in detail if needs be.

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't like to judge managers purely on titles won because you lose out on so many factors that are important too. However since you want to play the "who won what game" I'll play.

Number of titles won since 2008/2009

Guardiola- 20

Mourinho- 10

Ancelotti- 8

Simeone- 6

Benitez- 5

Klopp- 5

Van Gaal- 4

Guardiola is the first league manager to win three league titles in Spain and Germany.

Guardiola: 20 titles in 8 years
Ancelotti: 17 titles in 21 years
Heynckes: 12 titles in 34 years
Del Bosque: 10 titles in 22 years
Sacchi: 8 titles in 16 years

By the way, for those saying that Bayern Munich didn't have any competition this season, Borrussia Dortmund would have won the league title in all but 3 editions of the Bundesliga with their points total, so I'd say it's not exactly the 1 horse race that some like to paint it as.

These stats have been shamelessly stolen from Twitter.

Boom.

*Anderersonisgod drops the mic and leaves the stage.

That's great, but the tread is a discussion on his achievements, or lack of, at Bayern. You know, the side that he transformed from European champions to perennial semi-finalists, the club where he had as much domestic and European success as Ally McCoist did at Rangers during the similar period with similar financial advantages

Genuine question; who do you think has more regrets about the 74 WC, Holland or Germany

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's great, but the tread is a discussion on his achievements, or lack of, at Bayern. You know, the side that he transformed from European champions to perennial semi-finalists, the club where he had as much domestic and European success as Ally McCoist did at Rangers during the similar period with similar financial advantages

Genuine question; who do you think has more regrets about the 74 WC, Holland or Germany

Are you comparing the Bundesliga with the lower reaches of Scottish football? See when I said earlier that I wouldn't debate the legacy question on here because it'd be a waste of my time? Well its quotes like that which make this conversation a waste of my time, and my time is precious.

LiamoSail

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't think we'll see Guardiola test himself in his career, I think his next clubs will be the likes of PSG, back to Barca or into international management with Spain or Brazil

I think he's behind Ancelotti and Mourinho of the currently active managers and he'll stay that way in the history books as things stand

I'd add Claudio Ranieri to that list. What he did this season outweighs anything Guadiola has ever achieved IMO, and given the emphasise he puts on allowing players play their way, would suggest he'd be the ideal manager for a highly talented side like Bayern, Barca or Real

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Are you comparing the Bundesliga with the lower reaches of Scottish football? See when I said earlier that I wouldn't debate the legacy question on here because it'd be a waste of my time? Well its quotes like that which make this conversation a waste of my time, and my time is precious.

I'm comparing the advantage Bayern have in terms of finance to that which Rangers had. Both were significantly better resourced than their nearest rival, and just like Guadiola, McCoust too always fell short in the pursuit of his holy grail; the Petrofac cup.

Two peas in a pod really Guaduola and McCoist. Both flat track bullies that were found out when the playing ground was levelled. Guadiola in the CL with Bayern and McCoist in the Scottish Championship.

Maybe there's a future for Guadiola l, the Spanish McCoist, on a Question of Sport? He probably wouldn't win, but he'd inspire

StringerBell

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Are you comparing the Bundesliga with the lower reaches of Scottish football? See when I said earlier that I wouldn't debate the legacy question on here because it'd be a waste of my time? Well its quotes like that which make this conversation a waste of my time, and my time is precious.

Yet there is so much evidence to the contrary.

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm comparing the advantage Bayern have in terms of finance to that which Rangers had. Both were significantly better resourced than their nearest rival, and just like Guadiola, McCoust too always fell short in the pursuit of his holy grail; the Petrofac cup.

Two peas in a pod really Guaduola and McCoist. Both flat track bullies that were found out when the playing ground was levelled. Guadiola in the CL with Bayern and McCoist in the Scottish Championship.

Maybe there's a future for Guadiola l, the Spanish McCoist, on a Question of Sport? He probably wouldn't win, but he'd inspire

Oh how the hatred seeps through your post. Accept it and move on, most successful manager this century, most influential manager this century. Don't be bitter because he chose Man City over your club. You must have hated those trebles and that double he won at Barça....how sweet it is.

Brendan Flowers

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Oh how the hatred seeps through your post. Accept it and move on, most successful manager this century, most influential manager this century. Don't be bitter because he chose Man City over your club. You must have hated those trebles and that double he won at Barça....how sweet it is.

He's never a more influential manager than Ferguson. What SAF did, especially in his later years with an average midfield at Utd was exceptional.

I'd have Pep below him but on a par with Jose and Carlo.

Question for people, in any of Pep's 3 seasons at Bayern would you have considered him 'World Manager of the Year'? It'd be a no for me.

2013/14 Season: Diego Simeone
2014/15 Season: Luis Enrique
2015/16 Season: Claudio Ranieri

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Oh how the hatred seeps through your post. Accept it and move on, most successful manager this century, most influential manager this century. Don't be bitter because he chose Man City over your club. You must have hated those trebles and that double he won at Barça....how sweet it is.

Yea, that treble put him up there with other Giants of the game, Martin O'Neill, Alex McLeish etc, big names that like Guadiola also won a series of one horse races.

Guadiola will be found out at city. It's not a one horse race over there

LiamoSail

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

He's never a more influential manager than Ferguson. What SAF did, especially in his later years with an average midfield at Utd was exceptional.

I'd have Pep below him but on a par with Jose and Carlo.

Question for people, in any of Pep's 3 seasons at Bayern would you have considered him 'World Manager of the Year'? It'd be a no for me.

2013/14 Season: Diego Simeone
2014/15 Season: Luis Enrique
2015/16 Season: Claudio Ranieri

That Enrique, who I'm pretty sure has failed in every job he had prior to Barca, could match Guadiola's greatest achievement in his first season demonstrated really how difficult those achievement were that squad

Rayne Wooney

If Enrique sticks around for another two seasons it's likely he'll match Pep's record, he's already on course for 7 titles in 2 years. Will be interesting to see if he'll be put forward as one of the greatest ever by the usual suspects

For the most part it's just about showing up at Barca and being a half competent manager, don't fcuk with the status quo and you'll be successful.

dfx-

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Hey friend, do you follow German football? Do you follow the German national team? Are you aware of the fundamental changes Germany made to how it develops it's players? Have you followed Pep's career extensively? Have you read anything of any merit relating to any of those 4 topics? Are you in any kind of position to speak with any kind of authority on any of those topics? If not, should you really be commenting on any of those? Especially making little sly digs at a poster whose knowledge of the topic is significantly more vast than yours, moreso when that poster has even backed up his argument with quotes from those central to German football's turnaround like Löw, Klinsmann, Sammer ect. Should you feel foolish after reading this post? You're God damn right.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't care to get into any detail about this because looking at some of the replies to this thread at times it feels a bit like the scientist going into the primary school class to explain science, so I'm just going to comment on the "Plan B" thing.

"Plan B" is a phrase football fans and pundits sometimes use when they don't know what they are talking about. The purveyors of this phrase are often red faced, puffy cheeked and exasperated. They know not of which they speak. It's a go-to phrase to lambast those things which are beyond their realms of comprehension. Their primitive instincts lead them to believe that unless you are taking a more agricultural route to football, which requires somebody blasting a ball high into the air every few moments and a giant Lord of the Rings troll type figure smashing into anything that moves to win a knockdown, then you do not have a Plan B.

The reality is that one of the reasons Pep Guardiola is so renowned as a coach within coaching circles and across the game is because he's a coach who has proven time and again to be able to produce so many solutions over the course of 90 minutes. Like a great chess player he is proactive, he sees many moves ahead and, when needs be, he is quick to react. In any single game you may see him change the shape of his side numerous times, you may see his teams switch the point of their attack or change up their approach play. He's constantly tweaking, constantly keeping his opponents guessing and he provides his players with a variety of solutions. In this century, there is no coach as tactically innovative or tactically flexible as Guardiola. He's inspired a generation of coaches.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Are you comparing the Bundesliga with the lower reaches of Scottish football? See when I said earlier that I wouldn't debate the legacy question on here because it'd be a waste of my time? Well its quotes like that which make this conversation a waste of my time, and my time is precious.

The highlighted parts of these posts - tone it down and keep it civil please. Stick to the question or point brought up, not about whether your time is worth it to respond.

Everyone else likewise, keep it civil and not personal towards Aig please.

Turtwig

LiamoSail wrote: »

That Enrique, who I'm pretty sure has failed in every job he had prior to Barca, could match Guadiola's greatest achievement in his first season demonstrated really how difficult those achievement were that squad

I don't know what your success fail criteria is but Enrique took over the Barca B and won the division. Not a Barca fan but I think since he left that team has fallen into disarray? Moved to Roma and while he didn't set the world alight, he didn't do terribly either. He did fall out with Totti and few other players - Romas fans apparently applauded him for the stance he took. He did a pretty decent job at Celta. (Which is pretty much why Barca came calling).


You could probably say that unlike Pep, Enrique has had teams where he didn't have a first XI filled with elite superstars and has done pretty ok. But I actually don't think the job at Barca suits him. Ironically he'd probably be better off at a team like Bayern. I guess put another way I think Enrique would do a better job at mid level premier league than Pep but I think Pep would do the best job at the top tier.

Billy86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

*Anderersonisgod drops the mic and leaves the stage.

You still haven't given the link to the German under 17 team you were talking about, shortly before you were giving out about posters not providing links.

SeantheMan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Are you comparing the Bundesliga with the lower reaches of Scottish football? See when I said earlier that I wouldn't debate the legacy question on here because it'd be a waste of my time? Well its quotes like that which make this conversation a waste of my time, and my time is precious.

It would appear that constantly posting and arguing in a soccer and wrestling forum is considered precious time these days.

wonga77

This thread is hilarious

jmayo

Andersonisgod wrote: »

...
I also must say, as a massive fan of the man, his quotes post Atletico have been stirring, if anything my admiration for the Catalan coach has only grown.

Scary ...

rob316 wrote: »

Oh man some of the English media are really trying to hype this guy up. One article claimed pep was responsible for making Lewandowski one of the top strikers in the world...utterly laughable. He was already world class at Dortmund, klopp brought him from nothing.

Just wait until he turns Aguero into a proper player.

CSF wrote: »

Personally, I think when Plan A is to continually keep the ball and create attacks through sustained pressure, then Plan B isn't such a thing. I'm not a believer that adapting a more direct, quicker to the goal approach is that much of a benefit in increasing the odds of you getting a goal.

Bayern didn't struggle to create opportunities against Atletico. Plan A didn't fail, they just couldn't score a goal.

And they couldn't prevent Atletico scoring on quick breaks.
Maybe because he decided to yet again turn midfielders into centre backs supposedly by getting them to watch videos.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't care to get into any detail about this because looking at some of the replies to this thread at times it feels a bit like the scientist going into the primary school class to explain science, so I'm just going to comment on the "Plan B" thing.

The orchestra strikes up once again. :rolleyes:

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't like to judge managers purely on titles won because you lose out on so many factors that are important too. However since you want to play the "who won what game" I'll play.

Number of titles won since 2008/2009

Guardiola- 20

Mourinho- 10

Ancelotti- 8

Simeone- 6

Benitez- 5

Klopp- 5

Van Gaal- 4

Guardiola is the first league manager to win three league titles in Spain and Germany.

Guardiola: 20 titles in 8 years
Ancelotti: 17 titles in 21 years
Heynckes: 12 titles in 34 years
Del Bosque: 10 titles in 22 years
Sacchi: 8 titles in 16 years

By the way, for those saying that Bayern Munich didn't have any competition this season, Borrussia Dortmund would have won the league title in all but 3 editions of the Bundesliga with their points total, so I'd say it's not exactly the 1 horse race that some like to paint it as.

These stats have been shamelessly stolen from Twitter.

Mourinho ....
Titles in Portugal and more importantly reasonably competitive leagues in Italy and England.
CL with two different clubs.

Ancelotti has won league titles in Italy, England and France.
He has won CL with two different clubs.

Mourinho and Ancelotti have worked with weaker and smaller clubs and they have had some success with them.

Guardiola has managed two of the biggest clubs in the world, clubs already enjoying dominant positions in their leagues.

Lets see how he does with City.

POKERKING

Guardiola has a hard job at city, but all the youth teams have been set up the way he sets up his teams exactly as AIG describes earlier in the thread and i believe they have won the league at every age group and lost to chelsea in the fa youth cup final(the other club along with city who are miles ahead of everyone else in terms of quality youth level teams).

the only thing thats a mess at city is the first team(in part to Pelligrini), Guardiola will come in and with a few astute purchases and promotion from the youth team you will see a completly different team next year....

Beefy78

Toobz wrote: »

Heynckes was a far better coach. That was clear when his Bayern side beat Peps Barca 7-0 over 2 ties.

I reckon he was offered multiple jobs this season but the path of least resistance is where he will always go. Would not be surprised if he takes the managerial role at PSG when he thinks they are fit to win a champions league which will only be a few years away.

Not sure I'd see City as the path of least resistance. The Premier League will be a tough league to win over the next few years. City still have bottomless pits of cash but now every team in the league is filthy rich that has to count for less than it used to. He won't get any honeymoon period from the press and will need to look at completely overhauling an ageing squad full of egos who have massively underachieved since the moment he was announced as joining.

Next year, putting Leicester aside he'll be up against possibly Wenger's last Arsenal, a Spurs side on the way up who invest in the Summer, Klopp's Liverpool, probably Mourinho's United, hell - maybe Chelsea will turn up. And that's without mentioning this year's winner or West Ham, Southampton and Everton amongst others who will all be looking to improve again.

City looks like a very tricky job to me.

ERG89

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If Enrique sticks around for another two seasons it's likely he'll match Pep's record, he's already on course for 7 titles in 2 years. Will be interesting to see if he'll be put forward as one of the greatest ever by the usual suspects

For the most part it's just about showing up at Barca and being a half competent manager, don't fcuk with the status quo and you'll be successful.

I wonder would many clubs go for for him if he were to leave Barca in a few years time?

K-9

Since when did cups become titles?

And as for pivots and shuttles...

Harry Palmr

K-9 wrote: »

Since when did cups become titles?

And as for pivots and shuttles...

On le Continent a cup is a title often - Klopp himself used the term when he arrived.

PhlegmyMoses

K-9 wrote: »

Since when did cups become titles?

And as for pivots and shuttles...

Spanish players always call all competition wins titles. Ronaldo when he was at Utd did the same as well. But this is an Irish bloke speaking as far as I can tell. Maybe he is living in Spain and is surrounded by it but if not it's as cringey as Irish guys saying D-fence

Andersonisgod

K-9 wrote: »

Since when did cups become titles?

And as for pivots and shuttles...

Sorry, I got ahead of myself. I mean knowing that Heynckes side actually beat Tito Vilanova's Barça team (who was quite ill and not present at the time) and not Pep's Barça probably isn't worth bringing up either.

I mean clearly it's the use of terms like pivots and shuttles that are the real issue here, not that the most successful and seminal coach of this century is being compared, unfavourably, with Ally McCoist. What a strange thread that ,needless to say, I won't be frequenting anymore following this post.

K-9

Harry Palmr wrote: »

On le Continent a cup is a title often - Klopp himself used the term when he arrived.

Ah yeah.

Do Community Shields and Super Cups count?

jmayo

K-9 wrote: »

Since when did cups become titles?

And as for pivots and shuttles...

Actually 12 of Guardiola's "titles" are cups (lets leave our UEFA/Europa and Champion Leagues).
These include 2 Copa del Reys, 3 Supercopa de España, 3 UEFA Super Cups, 3 FIFA Club World Cups and 1 DFB-Pokal Cup.

He has 6 league titles and 2 CLs.

Actually I forgot that Mourinho has won a La Liga title as well so has League titles from three of the biggest leagues in the world.

Harry Palmr

K-9 wrote: »

Ah yeah.

Do Community Shields and Super Cups count?

Ah now, no one should push it that far! :pac:

PhlegmyMoses

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sorry, I got ahead of myself. I mean knowing that Heynckes side actually beat Tito Vilanova's Barça team (who was quite ill and not present at the time) and not Pep's Barça probably isn't worth bringing up either.

I mean clearly it's the use of terms like pivots and shuttles that are the real issue here, not that the most successful and seminal coach of this century is being compared, unfavourably, with Ally McCoist. What a strange thread that ,needless to say, I won't be frequenting anymore following this post.

People are just using your hyperbole as a starting point for the conversation. I mean, you seem to be including Supercopas, Super Cups and World Club Cups to pad out "title" numbers when it just isn't needed. His record is beyond compare over the last 10 years without the need for stat padding and hyperbole, yet here we are....

jmayo

K-9 wrote: »

Ah yeah.

Do Community Shields and Super Cups count?

Nah the Community ones don't, but the Charity ones do.

K-9

jmayo wrote: »

Nah the Community ones don't, but the Charity ones do.

Don't know how that one got in there, the Coca Cola Cup is still going!

Rafa was a wild man for naming the trophies Harry.

Seriously, no, Charity Shields, Super Cups and World Club Cups don't really count, they're for history books. Sure Liverpool have won more titles than United.

Harry Palmr

Ged used to claim that he had won five in 2000/01.