Laois/Wicklow V Dublin

Fattes

ProudDUB wrote: »

And the judge would toss it right out of his court room, once he stopped laughing.

I think that might have been the chairman of the Laois Co Board you heard on Newstalk. No one from the DCB has been on air talking about this. They're all keeping the head well down and are toeing the "we'll go where we're sent" party line, as they should be.

No it was a Dublin County board member talking about structures and development in Dublin GAA, and continuing the work of Andy Kettle not sure how much knowledge the lads form Laois would have on it.

The reasonable man test would hold up quite well for those T&C's, hard to believe but thats the system.

Stoner

Well mayo season ticket holders had the if available card played on them a couple of years ago. I'm sure it's on all the T&Cs

Realt Dearg Sec

Stoner wrote: »

There's about 6K season tickets between Parnell passes, Hill pass and season tickets.
They operate differently

I'm a season ticket holder. I get all league games free good value since Dublin progress in it so much.

You get the first championship game free and depending on your attendance you get to buy a ticket guaranteed at every other championship game.
So apart from one championship game , you pay for everything else.
And the season tickets obviously cost you .

The other ticket types operate differently but you are guaranteed games

OK. Not seeing why this would mean 6000 season ticket holders would be told they can't renew?

Realt Dearg Sec

Fattes wrote: »

Not really half those seated tickets are gone to Dubs Season ticket holders, before general sale.


Might be more than that, there is approx 5,000 season tickets seated for the Dubs alone, figure is closer to 10/12 thousand in total apparently. Which is why so many grounds are to small, either you breach your contract with season ticket holders or you sell less of them.

Don't really see croke park as a serious football advantage, plus I am pretty sure the pitch in Nolan Park and Semple are the same size as HQ

Sorry, by football advantage I just mean the advantage that accrues by having overwhelming home support. Should have been clearer, my bad. Some will argue there's no such advantage, although if there wasn't the match would never have been moved to begin with so right or wrong obviously someone thinks there is.

Mullet

Irish rail are running a late service back to Dublin @ 21.30. A return ticket is €27.50

Fattes

Mullet wrote: »

Irish rail are running a late service back to Dublin @ 21.30. A return ticket is €27.50

Excellent, up until yesterday they were refusing to confirm it on Twitter, actually works out at anything from 23-27 depending on when you depart Dublin return train is only 11 euros

Jaden

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

FWIW I would say in an ideal world, all of the championship matches before the semi finals should be on an enforced home-away agreement basis. The home county could, if it felt it was in the best interests of themselves maximising attendance or revenue, designate another venue as their home for that game

This is actually what does happen, with the exception that the decision is not left to the home county, but to a vote of the Provincial Council. Typically, the vote is 2-22 in favour of moving to Croke park for all of Dublin's games, with the home county's delegates voting against it - to preserve face. No county board wants to look like a sellout to their own fans, so they'd run a mile from any proposal that gives them the sole authority to move a game. Better to hide behind the provincial council vote, and then say "sure we voted against it, but what can we do?".

Classic GAA silly buggers carry-on.

Time for County Boards to grow a pair. Like that's gonna happen.....

ThunbergsAreGo

Second captains debate on this really missed the point on this.

If 3000 Dublin fans has been smart and booked accommodation what were they to do if the switched the venue at a few weeks notice?

Fattes

naughtb4 wrote: »

Second captains debate on this really missed the point on this.

If 3000 Dublin fans has been smart and booked accommodation what were they to do if the switched the venue at a few weeks notice?

If 3,000 Dublin fans have accommodation in Kilkenny the weekend of the cat laughs festival it would be a miracle.

Realt Dearg Sec

Jaden wrote: »

This is actually what does happen, with the exception that the decision is not left to the home county, but to a vote of the Provincial Council. Typically, the vote is 2-22 in favour of moving to Croke park for all of Dublin's games, with the home county's delegates voting against it - to preserve face. No county board wants to look like a sellout to their own fans, so they'd run a mile from any proposal that gives them the sole authority to move a game. Better to hide behind the provincial council vote, and then say "sure we voted against it, but what can we do?".

Classic GAA silly buggers carry-on.

Time for County Boards to grow a pair. Like that's gonna happen.....

On so many issues, the provincial councils are a major part of the problem. I think leaving the matter in the hands of the county boards would force them to, as you say, grow a pair and have to take responsibility for decisions that affect them.

Realt Dearg Sec

Fattes wrote: »

If 3,000 Dublin fans have accommodation in Kilkenny the weekend of the cat laughs festival it would be a miracle.

Yeah but if any Dublin fans have accommodation then moving it at this stage would be shafting them. If there are problems with the decision then so be it, changes need to be made (and to me it isn't just a matter of moving the venue for one game, it's a structural problem with the way these decisions are made at all), but it's definitely too late to be moving the venue for something like this.

Fattes

I get your point. Accommodation was almost impossible to get when the fixture was announced, Cat laughs is a recurring event every year the city is booked out for it.

Patser

And what of any Laois fan that wants to stay? They only knew on Saturday when they beat Wicklow.

Realt Dearg Sec

Patser wrote: »

And what of any Laois fan that wants to stay? They only knew on Saturday when they beat Wicklow.

Ah ffs, that's hardly a reasonable point, is it? What are the GAA supposed to do, like?

Setting aside the fact that there is nowhere in Laois more than about an hour from Kilkenny.

ThunbergsAreGo

Fattes wrote: »

If 3,000 Dublin fans have accommodation in Kilkenny the weekend of the cat laughs festival it would be a miracle.

Just picked a number, issue still stands. Many were looking at booking the minute it was announced.

The damage was done when the venue was selected, this can't really change now.

The fact that cat laughs is on compounds the decision

Davys Fits

naughtb4 wrote: »

The damage was done when the venue was selected, this can't really change now.

The fact that cat laughs is on compounds the decision

Its all about the cat laughs imo. The cats will be laughing but Im not blaming them for this.

Patser

naughtb4 wrote: »

Just picked a number, issue still stands. Many were looking at booking the minute it was announced.

The damage was done when the venue was selected, this can't really change now.

The fact that cat laughs is on compounds the decision

Also the time, Saturday evening with the late finish makes the rush home more rushed. Even Sunday afternoon would have helped a little, especially as it's a bank holiday weekend, so those so inclined could enjoy the day with next day off anyway.

Why was the decision made so long ago anyway? Nowlan Park would make perfrct sense if Wicklow had won, Aughrim would have been really pushing it.

As said though, decision made, no way it'll be changed, time to make plans but still legitimate to let Leinster council know it's unpopular decision.

Patser

Still lots of tickets available for this, the 2 main stands and 1 terrace still up on tickets.ie. Can't see that many deciding to just rack up at the gate either, though it'll still probably sell out. Points to a lack hype/interest in the match though. Really expected us Dubs to travel in numbers.

Fattes

Patser wrote: »

Still lots of tickets available for this, the 2 main stands and 1 terrace still up on tickets.ie. Can't see that many deciding to just rack up at the gate either, though it'll still probably sell out. Points to a lack hype/interest in the match though. Really expected us Dubs to travel in numbers.

Approx 4,000 tickets still available, you will probably see them shift over the next week or so depending on a number of factors.

steve_r

Does anyone know which areas is allocated to which set of fans?

Bonniedog

steve_r wrote: »

Does anyone know which areas is allocated to which set of fans?

What? This is Ireland, not some post industrial kip in Lancashire.

Are you expecting it to "kick off"


Regarding the slow build up, the GAA hasn't spent a cent advertising it as far as I can see. All Ireland champions first day out and you would hardly know it is on if you were listening to radio sports news. Wall to wall soccer even though the borefest is on recess and the Aviva was half empty last Friday.

Fattes

Ardan de Gras stand for seated and city end terrace (Parnell pass and hill tickets) season holders

steve_r

Fattes wrote: »

Ardan de Gras stand for seated and city end terrace (Parnell pass and hill tickets) season holders

Cheers, I know a few dubs going down and was just wondering where they would be sitting.

As a laoisman with a dublin gf where to sit is a matter of debate!

ProudDUB

They'll be sitting where ever they bought tickets for. The seating won't be segregated. It's not Kerry v Tyrone FFS !

The season ticket holders all seem to be the Ardan de Gras stand.

Fattes

Jaysus lads, you are all fierce cranky, it was a pretty simple question as to where the majority of the Dublin fans would be allocated, seats and standing in the ground. Its a nice day out, the championship is on. Smile and enjoy it

ProudDUB

The presence of the smiley faces was your first clue, that we aren't cranky at all & our responses were tongue in cheek. Here's another one, for the craic like....

steve_r

ProudDUB wrote: »

The presence of the smiley faces was your first clue, that we aren't cranky at all & our responses were tongue in cheek. Here's another one, for the craic like....

Bonniedog

According to Off the Ball, there is a semi organised boycott of the match by Laois supporters because it is not in O'Moore Park, and some other reason which I can't recall.

Two words: Jesus + wept.

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

But sure this was all decided last January or February at LC meeting. I can understand Laois wanting O'Moore Park and it was all the one to Dublin, but the vote was taken to have it in Nowlan Park. Bit late in the day to be organising a boycott!

Had to laugh at Parkinson as well pretending to be concerned over Dublin supporters not being able to get somewhere to stay and having to be on the train for two hours :-) He's been beating the drum about getting Dublin outside Croke Park for years, and indeed if I am not mistaken was fully behind having it in Kilkenny not so long ago!


I haven't heard one Dublin supporter complaining about either. Indeed I suspect what is annoying some people is that Dublin supporters are delighted with the whole thing and the place will be buzzing at the weekend. Only sorry I can't be there.

Fattes

Bonniedog wrote: »

I haven't heard one Dublin supporter complaining about either. Indeed I suspect what is annoying some people is that Dublin supporters are delighted with the whole thing and the place will be buzzing at the weekend. Only sorry I can't be there.

Most of the Dub fans I know, are in great from about it. I was meant to take the train and was really looking forward to it, but we (well she will be) drive due to other circumstances. Will miss the craic and banter on the trip but will make up for it in Kilkenny.

elefant

Bonniedog wrote: »

But sure this was all decided last January or February at LC meeting. I can understand Laois wanting O'Moore Park and it was all the one to Dublin, but the vote was taken to have it in Nowlan Park. Bit late in the day to be organising a boycott!

Had to laugh at Parkinson as well pretending to be concerned over Dublin supporters not being able to get somewhere to stay and having to be on the train for two hours :-) He's been beating the drum about getting Dublin outside Croke Park for years, and indeed if I am not mistaken was fully behind having it in Kilkenny not so long ago!


I haven't heard one Dublin supporter complaining about either. Indeed I suspect what is annoying some people is that Dublin supporters are delighted with the whole thing and the place will be buzzing at the weekend. Only sorry I can't be there.

From what I heard on Off the Ball there are suggestions that county representatives from teams not involved in the fixture were pressured by the Leinster Council into voting in favour of the match being played in Kilkenny.

I'm not surprised that Laois fans are pissed off, it's ridiculous that the game is being played where it is. And I can also understand why they weren't too vocal about their misgivings until after they'd beaten Wicklow; it would've been very disrespectful to Wicklow to kick-off before that.

Fattes

elefant wrote: »

From what I heard on Off the Ball there are suggestions that county representatives from teams not involved in the fixture were pressured by the Leinster Council into voting in favour of the match being played in Kilkenny.

I'm not surprised that Laois fans are pissed off, it's ridiculous that the game is being played where it is.

O'Moore Park, Seats 6,000, Nolan Park Seats 19,000, Expecting season ticket fans, to stand when they have purchased seated tickets. Now that is stupid. O'Moore park is not a suitable venue for a game with 20,000 people in attendance its fairly simple. The number of families, kids, older fans etc just makes it unfeasible.

Watch next season when Laois start complaining that their grants from LC are reduced!

elefant

Fattes wrote: »

O'Moore Park, Seats 6,000, Nolan Park Seats 19,000, Expecting season ticket fans, to stand when they have purchased seated tickets. Now that is stupid. O'Moore park is not a suitable venue for a game with 20,000 people in attendance its fairly simple. The number of families, kids, older fans etc just makes it unfeasible.

Watch next season when Laois start complaining that their grants from LC are reduced!

I don't understand the obsession with seats. Most stadiums up and down the country are mostly non-seated.

Pearse Stadium is almost 3/4 standing places. Should every Galway hurling and football home match be moved to McHale Park so elderly people can sit on benches?

Fattes

elefant wrote: »

I don't understand the obsession with seats. Most stadiums up and down the country are mostly non-seated.

Pearse Stadium is almost 3/4 standing places. Should every Galway hurling and football home match be moved to McHale Park so elderly people can sit on benches?

Size of the average crowd and its demographic, also the fact that X amount of season tickets are all ready sold for seating. If you don't understand why families with young children, the elderly and infirm, prefer seats I am not sure any amount of explanation will help you.

Laois have known about the venue for 6 months and are only whining since they beat Wicklow.

OldMrBrennan83

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elefant

Fattes wrote: »

Size of the average crowd and its demographic, also the fact that X amount of season tickets are all ready sold for seating. If you don't understand why families with young children, the elderly and infirm, prefer seats I am not sure any amount of explanation will help you.

Laois have known about the venue for 6 months and are only whining since they beat Wicklow.

I assume these tickets were sold for seating after Nowlan Park was chosen as the venue? Which was the silly, financially-driven decision in the first place. Of course, once stand tickets are bought that's that, but that doesn't invalidate Laois's right to be annoyed by the whole situation.

And, of course, I very much understand why the elderly and young children would prefer to be seated. But if they can't get stand tickets, and they don't want to be standing on a terrace, then unfortunately they will just have to stay at home. Every other county's old, infirm and children have to go to games where not everyone sits, and there's no outcry. That's life. But 'someone think of the children' is always a good fall-back argument I suppose.

I stated above in an edit that Laois could hardly have gone off about the decision before they beat Wicklow. It would have been very disrespectful. From what I've heard they were angry about it from day one but the vote to back the Leinster Council was taken by almost all the neutral counties, so what could they do? The Laois Chairman has spoken about how county delegates who promised to back them in the vote changed their votes on the day.

It's not like Laois were ambivalent to the venue from the start and have suddenly realised they're in with a chance of beating Dublin if they get to play at home. This game could do good things for football in Laois with a home venue. I doubt it will do much for football in Kilkenny being played in Nowlan. It might help line some pockets in Leinster a little bit more though.

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

elefant wrote: »

From what I heard on Off the Ball there are suggestions that county representatives from teams not involved in the fixture were pressured by the Leinster Council into voting in favour of the match being played in Kilkenny.

.

We get this every year. No one forces LC reps to vote any way. And if they are that spineless then their county conventions should get rid of them!

What does happen - and I know this for a fact and said it before - is that some of the same LC reps who have consistently voted to keep Dublin in Croke Park then go back to their own county boards, and sometimes even local media!, to whinge about it!

The simple facts are that since 2008, the only LC reps to vote to have Dublin's first game outside CP were the county or counties who were down to play them, and sometimes not even them!

As I said, Laois are perfectly entitled to want to have had the game in O'Moore Park but they can blame the other Leinster counties. and you know what? If Dublin are drawn to play Offaly in quarter final next year I bet you any money the Laois reps will vote to have it in CP. As will the rest of them. Except Offaly of course

Fattes

elefant wrote: »

I assume these tickets were sold for seating after Nowlan Park was chosen as the venue? Which was the silly, financially-driven decision in the first place. Of course, once stand tickets are bought that's that, but that doesn't invalidate Laois's right to be annoyed by the whole situation.

You assume wrong, they are Parnell Pass, and GAA season tickets that are sold long before any decision is taken in December! Most are annual renewals for the same families and people.

K-9

Bonniedog wrote: »

But sure this was all decided last January or February at LC meeting. I can understand Laois wanting O'Moore Park and it was all the one to Dublin, but the vote was taken to have it in Nowlan Park. Bit late in the day to be organising a boycott!

Had to laugh at Parkinson as well pretending to be concerned over Dublin supporters not being able to get somewhere to stay and having to be on the train for two hours :-) He's been beating the drum about getting Dublin outside Croke Park for years, and indeed if I am not mistaken was fully behind having it in Kilkenny not so long ago!


I haven't heard one Dublin supporter complaining about either. Indeed I suspect what is annoying some people is that Dublin supporters are delighted with the whole thing and the place will be buzzing at the weekend. Only sorry I can't be there.

Laois questioned this back in January, as did Parkinson.

The problem is the vote as it was felt some changed their decision before it.

This was in the news at the time so it isn't as if it's a new thing.

K-9

Fattes wrote: »

Size of the average crowd and its demographic, also the fact that X amount of season tickets are all ready sold for seating. If you don't understand why families with young children, the elderly and infirm, prefer seats I am not sure any amount of explanation will help you.

Laois have known about the venue for 6 months and are only whining since they beat Wicklow.

Jaysus, must be only a few suitable grounds in the country so.

DoctaDee

The whole venue issue wasn't a multiple choice vote. Leinster CCC determined NP as the preferred venue and it was a simple nay or yay.The finances of charging 20 notes for 18000 seats compared to 6&7k in Portlaoise and Tullamore irrespective of whose arse is on them was a large part of the deciding factor.

Fattes

K-9 wrote: »

Jaysus, must be only a few suitable grounds in the country so.

Yep, for a crowd the size the Dubs normally bring, there is a limited list available to the GAA. Average Dubs attendance between 1994-2005 was 45,000.00 since then its a guestemate, but you are probably looking at 50,000-55,000. Obviously there, more regular appearance in the last 4 and the final, plus league games at CP pushing the figure up

In Leinster, Nolan Park and Corke Park

Outside, McHale Park, Gaelic Grounds, Semple and that is it

DoctaDee

From the height of the mid noughties when any Dublin game would pull 50000 I'd say our core support is between 15-20 thousand these days

Fattes

DoctaDee wrote: »

From the height of the mid noughties when any Dublin game would pull 50000 I'd say our core support is between 15-20 thousand these days

The 45,000 figure is well researched and proven but only goes to 2005. Only 5 counties between 1995 and 2005 topped 40,000 attendance, Dublin, Kilkenny, Cork (Hurlers) Wexford (Hurlers) Meath (football). Obviously the frequency of KK and Ck visits to Croke Park for hurling finals in those years helped.

ultrapercy

DoctaDee wrote: »

From the height of the mid noughties when any Dublin game would pull 50000 I'd say our core support is between 15-20 thousand these days

Dublins "core" support are the people who travelle to away matches in the league in February, 2000 aprox. Everyone else is a bandwagon jumper.

Patser

Dublin attendances over the last few years have dropped dramatically, especially in the Leinster championship. It's a mixture if complacency and familiarity. There's been no real challenge in Leinster and with league games also being played in Croker, it's losing its sense of occasion.

Even double headers struggle to the 40,000 mark, and in a catch 22 situation a half filled Croker feels empty and quiet, which makes the next game more unattractive.

I still feel that Kilkenny will lack that sense of occasion this weekend, as to fan factor will be diluted by the comedy fan factor. As opposed to Portlaoise hopping to a single beat.

Fattes

ultrapercy wrote: »

Dublins "core" support are the people who travelle to away matches in the league in February, 2000 aprox. Everyone else is a bandwagon jumper.

Oh this rubbish, I cant attend league games as I am not in the country during most of it, I rarely miss a game at my nearest GAA club, and attend most championship hurling games, and all Dubs games in the summer, but I am a bandwagon jumper right! :rolleyes:

DoctaDee

ultrapercy wrote: »

Dublins "core" support are the people who travelle to away matches in the league in February, 2000 aprox. Everyone else is a bandwagon jumper.

Nope they'd be our "Ultras" - you're over simplifying the argument