Laois/Wicklow V Dublin

Dirty Dingus McGee

Patww79 wrote: »

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Even Munster Hurling championship has lost a lot of relevance in recent years.Back 15 years ago most games would be close to sell outs.You certainly wouldn't have had the empty spaces there were in the Cork Tipp match a couple of weeks ago.

OldMrBrennan83

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mountgomery burns

How many Laois fans would you have expected if it was on in Croke Park? That's your benchhmark, not Portlaoise and the reality is it would probably have been the same.

Doubt that many people bought into a boycott I'd say they just didn't want to go see that match. The reality is you would probably have had twice as many people if it was on in Croke Park. It was a bit disappointing in that regard I'd say.

I doubt it'll happen again for a long time as a result. Wouldn't call Dublins support poor by any stretch of the imagination but they are more likely to go to games in their own backyard than travel to Kilkenny to watch them hammer Laois. Not an earth shattering discovery.

corny

16,000 - 17,000 Dubs in NP.
Probably 25,000 - 30,000 would go to the same fixture in CP.

As a rough percentage that's between 55% & 70% of the likely support. Is that a bad turnout? Would the difference for other counties be tighter?

howiya

It must be the only match where people are more interested in how many were at it rather the actual match. Anyone that was at it had a great day out with their friends, family, club mates etc. Yes the match itself was a bore and non contest but that would have been the case regardless of the venue.

We brought a number of kids from our club and they'll remember the day out and hopefully in years to come they'll bring the next generation. That's all it's about. It's about the people that were there and not the one's who didn't bother.

The culchies will snipe that we couldn't even sell out Nowlan Park but neither could Kilkenny, London or Laois.

Bonniedog

Seems like they are expecting a smaller crowd for the Clare/Waterford game today than for the league final. You would have to assume that the bank holiday and the weather is a major factor. But also further confirmation that provincial championships are no longer the attractions they were, even in Munster. Both of these teams will well fancy their chances of at least reaching a quarter final through the back door given the quality of Offaly, Laois, Westmeath and even Wexford.

ProudDUB

Yeah, the commentators said the smaller crowd was expected, due to it being a bank holiday weekend and, that a lot of people are saving their sheckels, as they are travelling to the Euros next week.

The sane & rational amongst us, will just nod our heads and say fair enough. The rest will use it as a stick to beat the Waterford & Clare "bandwagoners" with.

Bonniedog

They are obviously not True Gaels PD.

Alternatively they are on a Novena or cutting turf or knitting Aran jumpers and other rural stuff.

ProudDUB

Speaking of Novenas, had lunch in Langtons yesterday, where He retired. I did 4 Stations of the Cross & said 12 Hail Marys. But I've a horrible feeling it wasn't enough. Will I burn in Portlaoise Hell now?

Bonniedog

ProudDUB wrote: »

Speaking of Novenas, had lunch in Langtons yesterday, where He retired. I did 4 Stations of the Cross & said 12 Hail Marys. But I've a horrible feeling it wasn't enough. Will I burn in Portlaoise Hell now?

Not sure you are supposed to be drinking porter during a Novena. Must check the Baltimore Catechism. Punishment is a stay over in Portlaoise.

bruschi

I'm not sure why some of the Dublin supporters are taking discussions about the attendance so personal. There are a few reasons that it is in discussion. for years a lot of people have said Dublin should be taken out of Croke Park, but there was a line constantly being spun that no ground could hold the quantity of support that they would bring. That was certainly debunked on Saturday and its not a bad thing. Secondly, the whole Portlaoise couldnt accommodate the game was also debunked. It could easily have been played there.

It shouldnt be used as a stick to beat Dublin support with, it's only natural that a team that has so many games, particularly later in the year has smaller crowds at its first round games. Look at Kerry and Kilkenny. Very similar in they only turn up when it gets to knock out late in the year. It's a natural concept.

To be honest, and I've said it here before, but those Dublin first round games should have been taken out of Croke Park a long time ago. And there are far too many games shoved into Croke Park that shouldnt be there. That double header with Wexford and Kildare/Dublin a few weeks back should never have been on there, despite what Liam Dunne and Wexford keep going on about. In reality, if you are playing in Croke Park, you should be deserving of the fact.

ProudDUB

We're not taking the discussion personally. It's just that there is just so much shyte talk spouted about us, we like to defend our honour, from time to time....or what's left of it after a weekend in Kilkenny !

Fattes

bruschi wrote: »

I'm not sure why some of the Dublin supporters are taking discussions about the attendance so personal. There are a few reasons that it is in discussion. for years a lot of people have said Dublin should be taken out of Croke Park, but there was a line constantly being spun that no ground could hold the quantity of support that they would bring. That was certainly debunked on Saturday and its not a bad thing. Secondly, the whole Portlaoise couldnt accommodate the game was also debunked. It could easily have been played there.

Hardly debunked, when you take in the other circumstances, such as a bank holiday weekend, the weather, throw in time etc. Also it was a stand alone fixture (Lets be honest the LondonVKilkenny game had an attendance of 5)

Pretty sure, Pokrtlaoise, would still have been short on seats based on Sat attendance, i think approx 8,000 seats were sold, still twice the capacity of O'Moore park seats.

Attendance at the Clare V Waterford game was surprisingly low yesterday too.

bruschi

Fattes wrote: »

Hardly debunked, when you take in the other circumstances, such as a bank holiday weekend, the weather, throw in time etc. Also it was a stand alone fixture (Lets be honest the LondonVKilkenny game had an attendance of 5)

Pretty sure, Pokrtlaoise, would still have been short on seats based on Sat attendance, i think approx 8,000 seats were sold, still twice the capacity of O'Moore park seats.

Attendance at the Clare V Waterford game was surprisingly low yesterday too.

How was it not debunked? We have been told no ground could cope. And regardless of circumstances or excuses, Nowlan park easily coped and many more would have too. 8000 is also not twice 6000.

Hammer Archer

I don't understand this "weather" excuse that has been bandied around. Are people suggesting that if it was p!ssing rain, there would have been a bigger crowd? Surely lovely weather like we had would bring more people to the game rather than sitting at home watching it on TV?
There is really no valid excuse now for the GAA not to bring Dublin to other grounds around Leinster in their first game (unless maybe it's against either Meath or Kildare, but even then Croke Park wouldn't even be half full).

I doubt there was a concerted effort by Laois fans to boycott the game. At our league game in Portlaoise in April, Meath fans easily outnumbered Laois fans. At the same game in Navan the previous season, I'd say there were less than 50 Laois fans at it. Since Laois have regressed, their fans simply don't attend games anymore bar a small, loyal hardcore support.

mountgomery burns

Fattes wrote: »

Hardly debunked, when you take in the other circumstances, such as a bank holiday weekend, the weather, throw in time etc. Also it was a stand alone fixture (Lets be honest the LondonVKilkenny game had an attendance of 5)

Pretty sure, Pokrtlaoise, would still have been short on seats based on Sat attendance, i think approx 8,000 seats were sold, still twice the capacity of O'Moore park seats.

Attendance at the Clare V Waterford game was surprisingly low yesterday too.

Clare v Waterford was exactly in line with the two previous games. Was the third time they played in 6 weeks, and you're talking about the two smallest counties in Munster.


I know Laois are small and the game wasn't very competitive, but it was still a smaller crowd than what was in Thurles. We weren't playing at home either, it's as far from Waterford City to Thurles as it is from Dublin to Kilkenny. Dublin probably had about 5-6k more fans than Waterford but have a much bigger fanbase anyway.

I don't think that can be used to explain the numbers. There's no doubt provincial championships aren't what they were though.

Fattes

bruschi wrote: »

How was it not debunked? We have been told no ground could cope. And regardless of circumstances or excuses, Nowlan park easily coped and many more would have too. 8000 is also not twice 6000.

Apologies for some reason I thought o'Moore park had 3,500 seats, still 2,000 over the capacity so the point is still very valid.

The good weather and the long weekend, would see people take holidays to their holiday homes/mobiles in Wexford, or extended breaks to places like sligo over a bank holiday weekend. Pretty simple really.

Hammer Archer

And what would bad weather do?

All you said is just conjecture. The fact is that Dublin traveled outside Croker for the first time in a decade and the ground was only two-thirds full. This flies in the face of the GAA's assertions that no other ground in Leinster could possibly accommodate Dublin's support. This will hopefully force the GAA to take the Dubs on the road more often which will obviously be welcomed by the Dublin support as well.

DoctaDee

Personally I think we need a 30000 stadium in north Dublin with a roof.:D. Ted Carroll stand was an eye sore on Saturday in fairness. Defo more away days in either Wexford Kilkenny Laois or Tullamore

Fattes

Hammer Archer wrote: »

And what would bad weather do?

All you said is just conjecture. The fact is that Dublin traveled outside Croker for the first time in a decade and the ground was only two-thirds full. This flies in the face of the GAA's assertions that no other ground in Leinster could possibly accommodate Dublin's support. This will hopefully force the GAA to take the Dubs on the road more often which will obviously be welcomed by the Dublin support as well.

approx 15,000 of the 17,000 on Sat were Dub travelling, last years double header opener was a 32,000 attendance double header with the Hurlers, which would be over capacity for every ground in Leister but Croke Park.

Saturdays attendance and seat sales would rule out the following grounds.

Wexford, Mulling, Navan, Tullamore, Pearse Park, Parnell Park, Carlow, Parnell Park Would all have been either too small or had less than 50% of the seated tickets required for Saturdays game.

Only Nolan Park and Tullamore could have held the crowd based on the break down of ticket sales and size.

Fattes

DoctaDee wrote: »

Personally I think we need a 30000 stadium in north Dublin with a roof.:D. Ted Carroll stand was an eye sore on Saturday in fairness. Defo more away days in either Wexford Kilkenny Laois or Tullamore

I have to say I really did enjoy the championship trip on Sat, I was on the last one 10 years ago also. Both are some of the stand out championship days for me, nothing to do with football

I will be in Pokrtlaoise, next weekend for the hurling

Bonniedog

Hammer Archer wrote: »

And what would bad weather do?

All you said is just conjecture. The fact is that Dublin traveled outside Croker for the first time in a decade and the ground was only two-thirds full. This flies in the face of the GAA's assertions that no other ground in Leinster could possibly accommodate Dublin's support. This will hopefully force the GAA to take the Dubs on the road more often which will obviously be welcomed by the Dublin support as well.

Well at least you recognise that it is in the gift of the LC, and not Dublin, to decide where matches are held. There would be no objections from Dublin.

Crowds are well down for obvious reasons and bank holidays have always had lower crowds. I remember a Dublin Kildare match on a June bank holiday in early 90s when there was serious rivalry and there were only around 25,000 in CP. Dublin games against Kildare and Meath then were typically in the early 50s.

Crowds at all three big games at weekend were below expectations. I would suggest that the holiday and weather were indeed main reasons.

But you are correct in saying that crowd size is not a reason not to have Dublin away games, away.

ProudDUB

I think the weather & the Bank Holiday events did play a role, not a massive one, but a role none the less. Bloom, Forbidden Fruit & RiverFest were all on in Dublin this weekend. I know of people who were hmming and hawing about going to KK, but they opted to attend those other events, or head off to the beach, once it became clear the good weather was going to last all weekend long.

If it had been lashing rain, they probably would have been willing to go to KK, sit in their plastic poncho for the 70 minutes & then head home again. Highlight of a miserable wet weekend sorted. But when they had the option of going some where, where they (and their wife & kids) could be entertained, all day long, in glorious weather, with no 2 hr drive home afterwards, it was a bit of a no brainer really. Similar thought processes affected the attendance in Thurles too, I'd imagine.

bruschi

Fattes wrote: »

approx 15,000 of the 17,000 on Sat were Dub travelling, last years double header opener was a 32,000 attendance double header with the Hurlers, which would be over capacity for every ground in Leister but Croke Park.

Saturdays attendance and seat sales would rule out the following grounds.

Wexford, Mulling, Navan, Tullamore, Pearse Park, Parnell Park, Carlow, Parnell Park Would all have been either too small or had less than 50% of the seated tickets required for Saturdays game.

Only Nolan Park and Tullamore could have held the crowd based on the break down of ticket sales and size.

Apart from your seating capacity being wrong, again, with some of those venues, what's the obsession with seats? There are numerous grounds in the country that have plenty of capacity but sometimes in terraces rather than seating. I thought Dublin fans were happy with terracing in grounds?

And again mentioning double headers. There doesn't have to be a double header game for Dublin football. It can survive as a stand alone fixture. I'm glad how Saturday panned out for the leinster council. Now maybe their cash cow might not look as daunting to move and it can play games in other venues, not only speaking about Dublin games here either.

Hammer Archer

bruschi wrote: »

Apart from your seating capacity being wrong, again, with some of those venues, what's the obsession with seats? There are numerous grounds in the country that have plenty of capacity but sometimes in terraces rather than seating. I thought Dublin fans were happy with terracing in grounds?

And again mentioning double headers. There doesn't have to be a double header game for Dublin football. It can survive as a stand alone fixture. I'm glad how Saturday panned out for the leinster council. Now maybe their cash cow might not look as daunting to move and it can play games in other venues, not only speaking about Dublin games here either.

I'd have my doubts. The Leinster Council have threatened other Leinster counties with cuts in funding if they voted to take Dublin out of Croke Park after this year. They'll probably reiterate that now.

Fattes

bruschi wrote: »

Apart from your seating capacity being wrong, again, with some of those venues, what's the obsession with seats? There are numerous grounds in the country that have plenty of capacity but sometimes in terraces rather than seating. I thought Dublin fans were happy with terracing in grounds?

And again mentioning double headers. There doesn't have to be a double header game for Dublin football. It can survive as a stand alone fixture. I'm glad how Saturday panned out for the leinster council. Now maybe their cash cow might not look as daunting to move and it can play games in other venues, not only speaking about Dublin games here either.

Actually double checked each of the grounds seated capacity is what makes them unsuitable. I don't have an obsession with seats, Dublin and Mayo both sell the highest number of stand seated season tickets. Both have had issues in the past few years with suitable venues for tickets sold.

corny

bruschi wrote: »

Fattes wrote: »

approx 15,000 of the 17,000 on Sat were Dub travelling, last years double header opener was a 32,000 attendance double header with the Hurlers, which would be over capacity for every ground in Leister but Croke Park.

Saturdays attendance and seat sales would rule out the following grounds.

Wexford, Mulling, Navan, Tullamore, Pearse Park, Parnell Park, Carlow, Parnell Park Would all have been either too small or had less than 50% of the seated tickets required for Saturdays game.

Only Nolan Park and Tullamore could have held the crowd based on the break down of ticket sales and size.

Apart from your seating capacity being wrong, again, with some of those venues, what's the obsession with seats? There are numerous grounds in the country that have plenty of capacity but sometimes in terraces rather than seating. I thought Dublin fans were happy with terracing in grounds?

And again mentioning double headers. There doesn't have to be a double header game for Dublin football. It can survive as a stand alone fixture. I'm glad how Saturday panned out for the leinster council. Now maybe their cash cow might not look as daunting to move and it can play games in other venues, not only speaking about Dublin games here either.

Its likely they'll do their sums (difference between 30,000 and 16,000) and never move Dublin out of Croke Park again.

largepants

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well at least you recognise that it is in the gift of the LC, and not Dublin, to decide where matches are held. There would be no objections from Dublin.

Crowds are well down for obvious reasons and bank holidays have always had lower crowds. I remember a Dublin Kildare match on a June bank holiday in early 90s when there was serious rivalry and there were only around 25,000 in CP. Dublin games against Kildare and Meath then were typically in the early 50s.

Crowds at all three big games at weekend were below expectations. I would suggest that the holiday and weather were indeed main reasons.

But you are correct in saying that crowd size is not a reason not to have Dublin away games, away.

That's was June 18th 1994. The same day Ireland played Italy in the world cup.

ProudDUB

It's not just about bums on seats. It's about premium level seats, corporate boxes, merchandise sales, revenue from booze and food sales etc etc. All of that, puts a lot of money in the coffers, when the game is in Croke Park. You don't have that revenue when the games are in provincial grounds. There is more money involved, than it just being about selling 16,000 seats vs 30,000.

I'm all for the Leinster Council saying 'shag that' and sending us out on the road more. But then I'm not the one trying to balance the books in the Leinster Council, or trying to decide who does or doesn't gets what grant, out of a smaller pot than usual.

bruschi

ProudDUB wrote: »

It's not just about bums on seats. It's about premium level seats, corporate boxes, merchandise revenue from booze and food sales etc etc. All of that, puts a lot of money in the coffers, when the game is in Croke Park. You don't have that revenue when the games are in provincial grounds. There is more money involved, than it just being about selling 16,000 seats vs 30,000.

I'm all for the Leinster Council saying 'shag that' and sending us out on the road more. But then I'm not the one trying to balance the books in the Leinster Council, or trying to decide who does or doesn't gets what grant, out of a smaller pot than usual.

The premium or corporate issue is I'd agree a far more pressing thing for them. But if they promoted their games better and if there was actual competitive games, bigger crowds in all venues would trump the difference of 13k seats and adding in a double header game.

DoctaDee

corny wrote: »

Its likely they'll do their sums (difference between 30,000 and 16,000) and never move Dublin out of Croke Park again.

Yeah unfortunately this and PD's point on the corporates plus merchandising sorta makes it nearly inevitable we're locked into Croker. Pity really as it was the 1st game in a long time that there was a palpable buzz going around pre game

Bonniedog

largepants wrote: »

That's was June 18th 1994. The same day Ireland played Italy in the world cup.

Damn you for ruining my Bank Holiday theory :mad:

ProudDUB

bruschi wrote: »

The premium or corporate issue is I'd agree a far more pressing thing for them. But if they promoted their games better and if there was actual competitive games, bigger crowds in all venues would trump the difference of 13k seats and adding in a double header game.

Agreed. Imagine if we had a championship structure where there were four divisions of 8 counties, on broadly geographic grounds similar to the current provincial one, so the traditional (and money making) rivalries remain broadly intact. Every county gets a minimum of seven games, 3/4 home & away games, just like the current league set up. The top two teams in every division qualify for the AI quarter finals.

With every county guaranteed a minimum of seven games, you just sit back and watch the money rolling in. It wouldn't just be the increased gate receipts. Local businesses & sponsors would be more wiling to get involved, as they get more exposure, with more games. More games on telly, means more ad revenue and more money for for selling broadcasting rights.

The players are happy, as they are playing in actual games & not in endless training sessions. Less of them leave in June to to America, so the over all quality of teams & games improve, which leads to yet higher gate receipts. Money is being made all around and the GAA no longer rely on the Jones Rd cash cow to fund eveyone and everything. More money coming in, means more revenue to spend on ground upgrades and facilities, which in turn attracts yet more punters. Stick a few corporate boxes in Semple, Castlebar, Nowlan Park etc too and watch more money roll in there.

It's far from being a perfect solution, the weaker counties are still the weaker counties. Some county boards will still be run by bumbling idiots & that will be reflected in their inter county teams. But at least the proper structures are in place to promote competitive games and sustainable revenue streams.

Then I wake up. :rolleyes:

toxicity234

Gary Walsh statement on being dropped from the Laois football panel.

Hard on the lad that gave so much time and commitment.

corny

toxicity234 wrote: »

Gary Walsh statement on being dropped from the Laois football panel.

Hard on the lad that gave so much time and commitment.

Thats his version of course but still, rough end alright.

DoctaDee

Walked last year and dropped this year .. tough on the chap based on his commitment, but I'd love to hear the other side of the story

Realt Dearg Sec

toxicity234 wrote: »

Gary Walsh statement on being dropped from the Laois football panel.

Hard on the lad that gave so much time and commitment.

Let a few ****s out of him, he says. Wonder who he let them out at? Have my doubts they'd be dropping him if he said it to himself somehow.

Patser

I suppose it's not just a Leinster thing.

Tipp shock Cork in a Munster football semi final played at home in the home of hurling

2734 attendence

A slightly specific count but I suppose they'd time to count twice to double check.
http://m.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0612/795024-tipperary-v-cork/

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Patser

Patww79 wrote: »

In fairness, nobody cares about football in Tipperary and the Cork fans were probably just holding off for the trip to Killarney.

On one hand you're probably right

On the other it's still paltry. I know Cork are in crisis but less than 3,000 in Semple, it must have felt like a tour group was visiting.

Fattes

I have to say after attending O'Moore park last night for the hurling it really reinforced the decision to have the football in Kilkenny, only 10,000 at the game, and the stadium struggled, between parking, crowd management and traffic.

Also the clock on the scoreboard didn't work for 80% of the game!

ProudDUB

Fattes wrote: »

I have to say after attending O'Moore park last night for the hurling it really reinforced the decision to have the football in Kilkenny, only 10,000 at the game, and the stadium struggled, between parking, crowd management and traffic.

Also the clock on the scoreboard didn't work for 80% of the game!

That's not that bad. In Parnell Park, the scoreboard clock doesn't work for 100% of the time. Every game. All of the time. :rolleyes:

(Unless you're a lady footballer.)

Godge

Patser wrote: »

I suppose it's not just a Leinster thing.

Tipp shock Cork in a Munster football semi final played at home in the home of hurling

2734 attendence

A slightly specific count but I suppose they'd time to count twice to double check.
http://m.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0612/795024-tipperary-v-cork/

There will be at least 12,456 claiming to have been there by the end of this week and another 40,000 in two years time.

Patser

Godge wrote: »

There will be at least 12,456 claiming to have been there by the end of this week and another 40,000 in two years time.

When Tipp do the double in 2018?!?!

Topcat32

Patser wrote: »

When Tipp do the double in 2018?!?!

No

DoctaDee

toxicity234 wrote: »

Gary Walsh statement on being dropped from the Laois football panel.

Hard on the lad that gave so much time and commitment.

Did da penance ... 3 hail marys and an our father and he's back in