Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

Roadhawk

traprunner wrote: »

A loud shout is far more effective. So it should be law that all cyclists can shout. It would also limit the number of cyclists by ruling out a minority i.e. non verbal people.

Well you know what they say, empty barrels make the loudest noise

Jawgap

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll float this one.

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

I'll tell my seven year old nephew :rolleyes:

The cost of administering, never mind policing, such a scheme would far far exceed any revenue raised.

Carawaystick

Grandeeod wrote: »

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number.

Define A Public Highway.


How would you implement a rules of the road test on cyclists who can't read? i.e. young children.
Who would pay for the test?
What penalty would apply to children under the age of criminal responsibility cycling safely on a cycle track without doing a test?
What likely improvement in road safety outcome would implementing a test give?
What likely reduction in cycling numbers would such a proposal have?
Have you quantified the increased healthcare costs a state imposed barrier to cycling would create?
How would a cyclist from abroad complete a test? Would there be a test centre on the bridge over the Foyle between Strabane and Lifford?
What about on Inis Oirr, where cyclists hire bikes to explore the island. There's no cops there.

Most of the same questions can be asked about registration numbers.

Would you need to wear a helmet applying for the test? Or just a fluorescent top?
What about unicyclists?
Have you a strong opinion about the use of Flickers? 3 wheeled scooters, Heeleys?

magicbastarder

maybe we could limit bikes to 25kph, unless a competency test has been passed?

Roadhawk

Jawgap wrote: »

I'll tell my seven year old nephew :rolleyes:

The cost of administering, never mind policing, such a scheme would far far exceed any revenue raised.

Maybe the administration from Irish Water could manage it

Carawaystick

Roadhawk wrote: »

Maybe the administration from Irish Water could manage it

Now yer talkin!

Jawgap

Roadhawk wrote: »

Maybe the administration from Irish Water could manage it

Doubt it - they're geared up and directed towards a different problem.

I've never understood motorists who display animosity / resentment / contempt for cyclists - if anything it makes more sense to make sure the city is as cycle friendly as possible.

The more friendlier it is, the more people will leave the car and take a bike - the more road space will be freed up.

This next image was created by the Cycling Promotion Fund earlier this year. It shows how much road space a group of people take up using cars, a bus, bikes, or standing in a group:

cdebru

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll float this one.

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

And pedestrians ?

Roadhawk

Jawgap wrote: »

And no cycle lanes in these photos, Oh dear

Roadhawk

cdebru wrote: »

And pedestrians ?

Debatable...although a road user, no vehicle is used by a pedestrian. More grounds to focus on the cyclist.

Jawgap

Roadhawk wrote: »

And no cycle lanes in these photos, Oh dear

No need for cycle lanes - just considerate road use by all road users.

Driving culture in ireland is very ego-centric and immature (as evidenced by the amount of outside lane hogging that goes on etc).

Roadhawk

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe we could limit bikes to 25kph, unless a competency test has been passed?

Great idea.

2RockMountain

Roadhawk wrote: »

Debatable...although a road user, no vehicle is used by a pedestrian. More grounds to focus on the cyclist.

Why? They don't show up as a cause of injury or death or damage in any traffic reports.

Roadhawk

Jawgap wrote: »

No need for cycle lanes - just considerate road use by all road users.

Driving culture in ireland is very ego-centric and immature (as evidenced by the amount of outside lane hogging that goes on etc).

I completely agree and would include cyclists in that same ego-centric and immature culture.

Jawgap

Roadhawk wrote: »

I completely agree and would include cyclists in that same ego-centric and immature culture.

I don't doubt for a minute that there are a significant number of cyclists who use the road inconsiderately but the fact remains if I cycle like a tw@t the chances are the only one who ends up hurt is me......

......but if I drive like a tw@t.......;)

Anyway, the writing is on the wall, if anything they'll be adding more cycle infrastructure to the cityscape - hopefully they (the City Council) will do a better job than has heretofore been the case.

Jawgap

Roadhawk wrote: »

Debatable...although a road user, no vehicle is used by a pedestrian. More grounds to focus on the cyclist.

2RockMountain wrote: »

Why? They don't show up as a cause of injury or death or damage in any traffic reports.

There's nothing really to debate - cyclists do not feature in the road collision stats at anything like a level that suggests they are a 'cause' of accidents.....

RSA Ireland Road Collisions

Kev_2012

First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.
Breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cycling on footpaths, cycling in between buses.

I'd say the vast majority I've seen are absolute hazards!

I don't know how people are getting killed off bicycles or harming pedestrians. It's ridiculous.

Secondly, I can't understand people who are happy to cycle 30 odd minutes into work and sit there covered in sweat or soaked from rain all day. I certainly won't be doing it. Not every office or workplace has shower facilities.

Thirdly, with regards public transport, why are the buses so infrequent and completely out of sync with their timetables? The Dublin bus app must be wrong 3/4 times a week for me! Buses arriving 10/15 minutes early or late or simply not showing.

The amount of buses going over o connell bridge and then only D'Olier st in the mornings is crazy, and even crazier with the cyclists weaving in and out between them.

The sooner Dublin City Council figures out a proper metro system the better (a sustainable and expandable one).

People used to complain about public transit over in Vancouver when I lived there and it is infinitely better than the service in Dublin and less than half the price per month.
Skytrains over there come along every 3 minutes, aren't late and are totally automatic.

Even this new Luas line is a feckin joke.

But hey, that's Ireland for ya, a tech hub that is still completely backwards and ran by idiots.

traprunner

Kev_2012 wrote: »

First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.

:rolleyes:

I got bored at this point with generalisations and didn't read any further.

Kev_2012

traprunner wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I got bored at this point with generalisations and didn't read any further.

Generalisation? I'm sorry, is what I see with my own 2 eyes every single day going to and from work not enough?

MJohnston

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Generalisation? I'm sorry, is what I see with my own 2 eyes every single day going to and from work not enough?

Simply: no.

Jawgap

Kev_2012 wrote: »

First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.
Breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cycling on footpaths, cycling in between buses.

I'd say the vast majority I've seen are absolute hazards!

I don't know how people are getting killed off bicycles or harming pedestrians. It's ridiculous.

Secondly, I can't understand people who are happy to cycle 30 odd minutes into work and sit there covered in sweat or soaked from rain all day. I certainly won't be doing it. Not every office or workplace has shower facilities.

Thirdly, with regards public transport, why are the buses so infrequent and completely out of sync with their timetables? The Dublin bus app must be wrong 3/4 times a week for me! Buses arriving 10/15 minutes early or late or simply not showing.

The amount of buses going over o connell bridge and then only D'Olier st in the mornings is crazy, and even crazier with the cyclists weaving in and out between them.

The sooner Dublin City Council figures out a proper metro system the better (a sustainable and expandable one).

People used to complain about public transit over in Vancouver when I lived there and it is infinitely better than the service in Dublin and less than half the price per month.
Skytrains over there come along every 3 minutes, aren't late and are totally automatic.

Even this new Luas line is a feckin joke.

But hey, that's Ireland for ya, a tech hub that is still completely backwards and ran by idiots.

probably because there's no actual hazard - if things were as bad as you describe it would be reflected in the collision stats.

Second, it's easy to cycle without getting sweaty - and even if you do get sweaty many workplaces have showers, and if they don't have showers the magic word is "baby wipes"

Dublin is actually quite dry - on any given work day the probability of getting wet is quite low.....



.....the weather patterns don't change that much despite what Healy-Rae might have you believe.

I don't know about buses or the Luas - if I'm not on the bike, I take the car

MJohnston

Secondly, I can't understand people who are happy to cycle 30 odd minutes into work and sit there covered in sweat or soaked from rain all day.

This is comedy gold on so many levels! Firstly, you can't understand why? Here's a handful of reasons - it makes you feel good, it keeps you fit, it's much faster than most other forms of commute, it's environmentally friendly, it allows for much better and free-er access to the city than a car, it's fun!

Secondly, a 30 minute cycle is easy for most frequent cyclists.

Thirdly, most cyclists won't be covered in sweat after 30 minutes (unless it's their first week cycling). And it doesn't rain that much either. But even when you do sweat, or it does rain, that's why most proper cyclists come to work wearing cycling gear and then get changed at work. Some of us even work for companies that have showering facilities at the office.

MJohnston

My favourite thing to do as a cyclist is to head up through Phoenix Park after work, take a break every so often, and enjoy life in this city. It's especially entertaining watching all the red-faced car commuters stuck in yet another traffic jam, or at the weekend the lovely people who choose their car as their method of exploring the park.

Kev_2012

MJohnston wrote: »

Simply: no.

Good argument pal. :thumbsup:

Jawgap wrote: »

probably because there's no actual hazard - if things were as bad as you describe it would be reflected in the collision stats.

Second, it's easy to cycle without getting sweaty - and even if you do get sweaty many workplaces have showers, and if they don't have showers the magic word is "baby wipes"

Dublin is actually quite dry - on any given work day the probability of getting wet is quite low.....



.....the weather patterns don't change that much despite what Healy-Rae might have you believe.

I don't know about buses or the Luas - if I'm not on the bike, I take the car

Ok go to D'Olier st at rush hour in the morning and have a look. Bikes flying out in front of buses and inbetween them. It's like something out of a bollywood film!

I disagree with the getting sweaty part. I'm quite fit and I would be sweaty after 20 minutes on a bike.

The weather in Dublin is dryer than rest of the country however it can change at the drop of a hat.

MJohnston wrote: »

This is comedy gold on so many levels! Firstly, you can't understand why? Here's a handful of reasons - it makes you feel good, it keeps you fit, it's much faster than most other forms of commute, it's environmentally friendly, it allows for much better and free-er access to the city than a car, it's fun!

Secondly, a 30 minute cycle is easy for most frequent cyclists.

Thirdly, most cyclists won't be covered in sweat after 30 minutes (unless it's their first week cycling). And it doesn't rain that much either. But even when you do sweat, or it does rain, that's why most proper cyclists come to work wearing cycling gear and then get changed at work. Some of us even work for companies that have showering facilities at the office.

No need to be a smart arse. I like exercise, but I also don't like the feeling of smelling like sh!te all day in work. 30 minutes is an easy cycle but if you don't think you'd be sweaty from it, you are clearly deluded.

My final point was that not every company/workplace has shower facilities. Did you read my post?

Kev_2012

MJohnston wrote: »

My favourite thing to do as a cyclist is to head up through Phoenix Park after work, take a break every so often, and enjoy life in this city. It's especially entertaining watching all the red-faced car commuters stuck in yet another traffic jam, or at the weekend the lovely people who choose their car as their method of exploring the park.

Well aren't you just a diamond in the rough eh? :rolleyes:

greendom

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Good argument pal. :thumbsup:



Ok go to D'Olier st at rush hour in the morning and have a look. Bikes flying out in front of buses and inbetween them. It's like something out of a bollywood film!

I disagree with the getting sweaty part. I'm quite fit and I would be sweaty after 20 minutes on a bike.

The weather in Dublin is dryer than rest of the country however it can change at the drop of a hat.



No need to be a smart arse. I like exercise, but I also don't like the feeling of smelling like sh!te all day in work. 30 minutes is an easy cycle but if you don't think you'd be sweaty from it, you are clearly deluded.

My final point was that not every company/workplace has shower facilities. Did you read my post?

after a cycle for 30 minutes I build up a bit of sweat, but once you've taken off your cycling gear, had a bit of a dab with a wet wipe, and put on your office clothing you're right as rain. If it wasn't for the wheezing no one would know I'd done anything strenuous

Roadhawk

MJohnston wrote: »

My favourite thing to do as a cyclist is to head up through Phoenix Park after work, take a break every so often, and enjoy life in this city. It's especially entertaining watching all the red-faced car commuters stuck in yet another traffic jam, or at the weekend the lovely people who choose their car as their method of exploring the park.

For a motorist traffic is a given. If they seem to be "red-faced" i would image its probable because of the cyclists breaking red lights etc. With a comfortable seat and heating what is there to complain about?

MJohnston

Kev_2012 wrote: »

No need to be a smart arse.

If you don't want smart arse replies, don't wade in with comments like "the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless."

I like exercise, but I also don't like the feeling of smelling like sh!te all day in work. 30 minutes is an easy cycle but if you don't think you'd be sweaty from it, you are clearly deluded.

Of course you'd be a bit sweaty. You said "covered in sweat...all day". I'd be surprised if that's true of any frequent cyclists.

Sweat doesn't smell, its only when it mixes with bacteria that it starts to. Have a proper shower just before you get on your bike for that 30 minute cycle and you won't end up smelling at all for any amount of time (in fact, sitting on a chair at work probably produces more smelly bacteria than exercise). Bring a can of antiperspirant and a change of clothes and you're likely to feel fresh and clean all day. Don't need shower facilities to get changed in.

There's also the geographical fact that if you're cycling into Dublin CC, or anywhere within the canals really, you're likely cycling downhill. Meaning you don't have to expend a huge amount of energy getting to work, meaning you don't have to sweat a lot. Most people would only have to sweat heavily on the cycle home.

My final point was that not every company/workplace has shower facilities. Did you read my post?

Of course I did, as originally posted.

magicbastarder

Kev_2012 wrote: »

I don't know how people are getting killed off bicycles or harming pedestrians. It's ridiculous.

what's ridiculous? the fact that you don't know something? or that your opinion does not correspond with the actual situation?

2RockMountain

Kev_2012 wrote: »

First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.
Breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cycling on footpaths, cycling in between buses.

If it is only or mainly cyclists that you see breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cutting between buses, can I suggest that you spend 10 minutes on the dashcam thread in the Motors forum so that you can educate yourself as to the routine ignoring of traffic law by many drivers in Ireland.

I'm surprised that you don't notice this already, mind you - you are supposed to observe what goes on around you on the road.

MJohnston

Roadhawk wrote: »

For a motorist traffic is a given. If they seem to be "red-faced" i would image its probable because of the cyclists breaking red lights etc. With a comfortable seat and heating what is there to complain about?

You tell me - usually it is angry faces at the North Road/Ashtown Gate Road junction, or from being stuck behind a slower driver. Driving just seems to bring out a selfish streak in most people.

There are no red lights in Phoenix Park for cyclists to be breaking - in fact, very little reason for cyclists to mix with traffic at all, thankfully.

Roadhawk

Jawgap wrote: »

There's nothing really to debate - cyclists do not feature in the road collision stats at anything like a level that suggests they are a 'cause' of accidents.....

RSA Ireland Road Collisions

Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

Also these stats are from 4 years ago...anything more recent? Ever think that the recent stats are not being published because the government have an agenda to promote cycling and dont want to scare potential new cyclists? just saying.

Jawgap

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Good argument pal. :thumbsup:



Ok go to D'Olier st at rush hour in the morning and have a look. Bikes flying out in front of buses and inbetween them. It's like something out of a bollywood film!

Well I'm sure it is - but thankfully no one seems to get hurt.

Kev_2012 wrote: »

I disagree with the getting sweaty part. I'm quite fit and I would be sweaty after 20 minutes on a bike.

Sounds like you're using your gear wrong - or indeed not using them. Or you could de-layer

Kev_2012 wrote: »

The weather in Dublin is dryer than rest of the country however it can change at the drop of a hat.

the study quoted used data from the census (for commuting departure times) and Met Eireann for rainfall.

However, I'm sure your anecdotes are more accurate.

magicbastarder

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.

transport for london commissioned a study into traffic fatalities, and determined that cyclist fatalities were the fault of the motorist for most of the cases studied.

obviously a different city, and i suspect the biggest difference between dublin and london would be the HGV ban in dublin.

Roadhawk

MJohnston wrote: »

You tell me - usually it is angry faces at the North Road/Ashtown Gate Road junction, or from being stuck behind a slower driver. Driving just seems to bring out a selfish streak in most people.

There are no red lights in Phoenix Park for cyclists to be breaking - in fact, very little reason for cyclists to mix with traffic at all, thankfully.

If you cycle the park much im sure you know that more often than not commuters tend to use the road instead of the cycle track because of the same reason, slower cyclists and/or pedestrians. In fact this topic had come up before on boards and cyclists said they they would be sticking to the road and not the track. I am a regular Phoenix Park cyclist and tend to go at my one pace. I have seen that frustration a number of times on the face of other cyclists as they race past.

MJohnston

Roadhawk wrote: »

If you cycle the park much im sure you know that more often than not commuters tend to use the road instead of the cycle track because of the same reason, slower cyclists and/or pedestrians. In fact this topic had come up before on boards and cyclists said they they would be sticking to the road and not the track. I am a regular Phoenix Park cyclist and tend to go at my one pace. I have seen that frustration a number of times on the face of other cyclists as they race past.

Of course, but then bicycles using the road instead of a cycle track is perfectly legal, not sure why you're suggesting otherwise. "more often than not" is a big exaggeration too.

The only red-faced cyclists I see in PP are those, like myself, who are out of breath

Jawgap

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

Also these stats are from 4 years ago...anything more recent? Ever think that the recent stats are not being published because the government have an agenda to promote cycling and dont want to scare potential new cyclists? just saying.

If things were as 'Mad Max' as you are suggesting, there'd be a lot more bloodied and broken cyclists - cycle fatalities in recent years rarely (and thankfully) make it into double figures in any given year.

Here's the 2015 stats

ED E

Its worth noting those figures are absolute, not per KM cycled. If you adjusted for that the drop off would be even steeper.

Roadhawk

magicbastarder wrote: »

transport for london commissioned a study into traffic fatalities, and determined that cyclist fatalities were the fault of the motorist for most of the cases studied.

obviously a different city, and i suspect the biggest difference between dublin and london would be the HGV ban in dublin.

I take that into consideration but that is completely irrelevant. I mean London is a city with about 20 million people and a complete different dynamic in their approach to transport. Sure Boris Johnson is the modern day hippie who is fascinated with cyclists.

I could equally throw out the link below and say that this is fact but i doubt it:
http://www.planningforreality.org/cyclists-at-fault-in-majority-of-car-vs-bike-collisions-in-california/

You see behind every article is an agenda. Each with there own opinion. The fact are hard to confirm even though we believe what we want to believe.

Jawgap

ED E wrote: »

Its worth noting those figures are absolute, not per KM cycled. If you adjusted for that the drop off would be even steeper.

And if you stripped out the OAPs and the non-urban collisions it becomes even steeper.

gladrags

Christ,on the one hand we have Danny Healy R claiming that global warming ain't happening.

On the other,we have O'Leary stupidly and ignorantly sniping at cyclists,who at the very least do not contribute to the emissions,caused by the increasing
numbers of motors on the roads.

This is a serious and real problem.

But the lines of traffic get bigger,as do the cars.

Jeeps and land rovers careering through heavily populated towns and cities.

And most of them have only one passenger,the driver.

Utter madness,will we never learn.

Roadhawk

gladrags wrote: »

Christ,on the one hand we have Danny Healy R claiming that global warming ain't happening.

On the other,we have O'Leary stupidly and ignorantly sniping at cyclists,who at the very least do not contribute to the emissions,caused by the increasing
numbers of motors on the roads.

This is a serious and real problem.

But the lines of traffic get bigger,as do the cars.

Jeeps and land rovers careering through heavily populated towns and cities.

And most of them have only one passenger,the driver.

Utter madness,will we never learn.

The recession is gone now. Property is still sh!t so ill buy a fancy jeep. Thats the mentality of a lot of motorists.

2RockMountain

Roadhawk wrote: »

Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.


Also these stats are from 4 years ago...anything more recent? Ever think that the recent stats are not being published because the government have an agenda to promote cycling and dont want to scare potential new cyclists? just saying.

Ah come on, really? Now you're clutching at straws. All the death and injury statistics are on the RSA site, if you do a bit of digging. Less of the conspiracy theories please.

Jawgap wrote: »

Sounds like you're using your gear wrong - or indeed not using them. Or you could de-layer

Actually, I agree with Kev on this one. I get sweaty with a short cycle, as I tend to cycle fairly energetically. I get sweaty with a short walk, or a running for a bus or running up the stairs too - it's just me. I normally change and shower at work after cycling, so it's not really a problem. sometimes when I take a Dublin Bike around the city, I have to ease back considerably to avoid getting sweaty, but it is easily done.

Roadhawk

Jawgap wrote: »

If things were as 'Mad Max' as you are suggesting, there'd be a lot more bloodied and broken cyclists - cycle fatalities in recent years rarely (and thankfully) make it into double figures in any given year.

Here's the 2015 stats

Hadnt seen that one before. One final step to get a real picture...how many motorists are there and how many cyclists are there currently? If we can hack this one out we might be able to find the ratio of cyclists in comparison to fatalities and likewise with the motorists.

I haven't once mentioned the "Mad Max" setting you are portraying. I have however been highlighting the lack of education and respect that some cyclists display when using roads.

2RockMountain

Roadhawk wrote: »

I haven't once mentioned the "Mad Max" setting you are portraying. I have however been highlighting the lack of education and respect that some cyclists display when using roads.

Just for context, do you see the same 'lack of education and respect' that some drivers display on the roads, when they speed, break traffic lights, do their make-up and/or Facebook updates while driving?

monument

Posts deleted re speculation on blame on recent collision -- it's a matter for the courts.

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Generalisation? I'm sorry, is what I see with my own 2 eyes every single day going to and from work not enough?

No. It's not -- a higher level of debate is expected on the Commuting and Transport board.

Don't reply to this.

-- moderator

Jawgap

Roadhawk wrote: »

Hadnt seen that one before. One final step to get a real picture...how many motorists are there and how many cyclists are there currently? If we can hack this one out we might be able to find the ratio of cyclists in comparison to fatalities and likewise with the motorists.

I haven't once mentioned the "Mad Max" setting you are portraying. I have however been highlighting the lack of education and respect that some cyclists display when using roads.

Completely irrelevant - or almost completely.

The number of km travelled via each mode would be a much more accurate denominator (as an earlier poster alluded to). According to the RSA....

Vehicle kilometres travelled (VkmT) is considered the best measure of risk exposure for all vehicles on the road.

The other point worth noting is somewhat counter-intuitive - more cycling and cyclists lead to fewer fatalities - cycling has increased hugely in popularity in the last 20 years or so but cyclist fatalities have decreased by 89.1% since 1990 (RSA: ROADCASUALTY & COLLISION REPORT 2013).

Likewise Portugal (in 2006), where people cycle on average 30km per year suffered about 128 cyclists killed for every billion km travelled. Whereas Denmark (average annual per capita cycling is 954km) suffered about 5.8. Ireland suffered 12.1 but in 2006 the average per capital cycling distance was only 186 km (CTC: Safety in Numbers)

I think Dublin is a great city to cycle in - when people start talking about how dangerous it is I wonder if I'm in the same city

MJohnston

Deedsie wrote: »

Depends on the route you cycle, the time of day you cycle. The junctions you have to negotiate etc?

There's a difference between statistically dangerous and feeling unsafe while cycling. I think when people say it's dangerous to cycle in Dublin, the latter is what they mean.

Rew

Roadhawk wrote: »

I am a regular Phoenix Park cyclist and tend to go at my one pace. I have seen that frustration a number of times on the face of other cyclists as they race past.

Really? because you can't see another cyclists face as they pass at speed unless your going the wrong way against them...

I was a regular there till recently I would pass and be passed it was no big deal. Occasionally Id have to call out that I wanted to pass on their right.

Some close calls with people stepping out into the cycle lane randomly though.

Rew

Deedsie wrote: »

Depends on the route you cycle, the time of day you cycle. The junctions you have to negotiate etc?

Definitely! I moved recently, same distance more traffic but far nicer then previous route.