Forum Update

The former peterdalkey

It is rather sad to see the interaction and thread volume decline so dramatically on this forum. Many of the more informed/useful posters seem to have given up. Perhaps the job's market has cleaned out all those that saw the enterprise dream as the only hope.

smash

The former peterdalkey wrote: »

It is rather sad to see the interaction and thread volume decline so dramatically on this forum. Many of the more informed/useful posters seem to have given up. Perhaps the job's market has cleaned out all those that saw the enterprise dream as the only hope.

It's the site itself Peter, not the market. Forums are becoming harder to find with the new menu system, DDOS attacks are happening on the regular, and to top it all off there's a new proposed redesign which renders the site unusable. You can view it by clicking the 'responsive site' link in the footer, and please leave your feedback in the feedback forum.

smash

smash wrote: »

The former peterdalkey wrote: »

It is rather sad to see the interaction and thread volume decline so dramatically on this forum. Many of the more informed/useful posters seem to have given up. Perhaps the job's market has cleaned out all those that saw the enterprise dream as the only hope.

It's the site itself Peter, not the market. Forums are becoming harder to find with the new menu system, DDOS attacks are happening on the regular, and to top it all off there's a new proposed redesign which renders the site unusable. You can view it by clicking the 'responsive site' link in the footer, and please leave your feedback in the feedback forum.

I dont think its the redesign personally - this has to happen every so often and there will always be pushback to that as we get set in our ways, be it boards or a football website or whatever. For 2 years plus now this forum has been slowly dieing and its basically dead now in my eyes. Bunch of suggestions were made a while back to stop it from becoming a Q&A for first time businesses people asking basic questions but weren't followed. So mostly its simple questions that can be googled now, its not a discussion forum but a how to start your first business forum.
The film section is the only thing that brings me back to boards now, followed by a quick scan of the B&E which is usually devoid of any discussion!

jimmii

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont think its the redesign personally - this has to happen every so often and there will always be pushback to that as we get set in our ways, be it boards or a football website or whatever. For 2 years plus now this forum has been slowly dieing and its basically dead now in my eyes. Bunch of suggestions were made a while back to stop it from becoming a Q&A for first time businesses people asking basic questions but weren't followed. So mostly its simple questions that can be googled now, its not a discussion forum but a how to start your first business forum.
The film section is the only thing that brings me back to boards now, followed by a quick scan of the B&E which is usually devoid of any discussion!

Thats why I don't bother too its mostly just people who have a random thought pop into their head decide to post it here and then go back to their job and never think about it again. That or what are blatantly homework questions.

pedroeibar1

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont think its the redesign personally - this has to happen every so often and there will always be pushback to that as we get set in our ways, be it boards or a football website or whatever. For 2 years plus now this forum has been slowly dieing and its basically dead now in my eyes. Bunch of suggestions were made a while back to stop it from becoming a Q&A for first time businesses people asking basic questions but weren't followed. So mostly its simple questions that can be googled now, its not a discussion forum but a how to start your first business forum.
The film section is the only thing that brings me back to boards now, followed by a quick scan of the B&E which is usually devoid of any discussion!

I agree –I look in to Boards when I’m bored or want a break from other work (and drop-off IMO has nothing to do with re-design). It’s a pity that this forum has sunk as it could be interesting and worthwhile. Although it is called “Entrepreneurial and Business Management” it has been a very long time since anything managerial has been discussed cogently or at length. Instead the forum has become a venue for those asking questions on VAT or ‘how to open a food outlet’ or ‘import tat from China” (always at the lowest possible cost). Having passed from cupcakes through coffee and T-shirts it now borders on ‘do my homework/research for me’ topics. More than two thirds of those asking questions have absolutely no hope of succeeding in business. Also, the success of any forum is predicated on the amount and quality of moderation, levels difficult to achieve when mods are taken from those who are prepared to work gratis. Just a few Mods on Boards are notable exceptions.

dudara

There is a theory that the category re-org has caused a drop off in traffic to the smaller forums. I haven't validated that personally, but it could be one explanation.

I'm going to throw some food for thought out here now...
(1) I agree that we get a lot of one-thread wonders in this forum with their latest money-making idea. However, they often get a sharp reception, which doesn't often create a welcoming atmosphere on the forum.
(2) I think forum regulars have a large part to play in the health and vitality of a forum. They can do this by starting threads and getting discussions and a community going.

If you guys have other suggestions on how to revitalise the forum, I am listening.

Gloomtastic!

Now that we have the two Peters back on board(s!!!), how's about we try, say for six weeks, to be encouraging to all posters. I appreciate it may be hard, and if it gets too much just walk away and don't post.
If posts don't increase, then we can blame something else.

The former peterdalkey

It looks to me like the dog is dead. When it was suggested, with significant detail provided, that the stickies and the 2009 Charter etc be properly updated... Assurances were given but plainly never delivered. Shame on those who failed to deliver. Probably time for them to do the decent thing and take their prejudices with them.

I know this will not suit but the right choice is generally the hardest option. Let's see who stands up!!

A man brought a very limp dog into the veterinary clinic. The doctor placed his stethoscope on the dog's chest, shook his head sadly and said, "I'm sorry, but your dog has passed away."

The man screamed, "How can you tell? You haven't done any testing on him or anything. I want another opinion!"

The doctor left the room and a few moments later, returned with a Labrador Retriever. After a considerable amount of sniffing, the Retriever sadly shook his head and said "Bark ... definitely dead".

Then the vet left the room again and a few minutes later, returned with a cat, who also checked out the dead dog on the table. The cat sadly shook his head and said, "Meow ... definitely dead."

Then the veterinarian handed the man a bill for $600.

The man went nuts and yelled, "$600! Just to tell me my dog is dead? This is outrageous!"

The vet shook his head sadly and explained, "If you had taken my word for it, it would have been $50, but with the lab test and the cat scan, it's extra."

The former peterdalkey

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Now that we have the two Peters back on board(s!!!), how's about we try, say for six weeks, to be encouraging to all posters. I appreciate it may be hard, and if it gets too much just walk away and don't post.
If posts don't increase, then we can blame something else.

We would need lots of cuddly emojis for that... An ask too far!

The former peterdalkey

And Pedroeibar's name is not Peter!

justinbellford

I agree . . .

sysprogrammer

The main reason for me to be here in E&BM is access to the 2 Pedro's , Antonai O , El Rifle, Rudolph and a few notable others.

They have decades of experience, and the clear delivery of what they think about your business is invaluable.

I have received better advice here than I have received an ANY Local Enterprise Office or mentoring session provided by state. And that is fact. I wouldn't want them to sugar coat what needs to be said.

That they are giving their hard earned time is in itself fantastic. Thank you so much for doing so.

Can we have a look at revamping the charter and stickies as suggested above.

I would also ask for a sub category for Exisiting Business - to avoid a lot of the start up questions that fill up the forum at present.

This forum is certainly the reason I use boards, if not the only reason.

Hope this helps,
Sysprog

drunkmonkey

Is it down to the upswing in the Economy, less people trying to make a go of it themselves and the ones that have made it out the right side of the recession they've got a good grip on their own businesses.

I'd like a private side to the forum, there's a load of good questions you could be asking from a management side but an open forum might not be the best place for numerous reasons.

duploelabs

I think an 'ask the experts' sub for new entrants in to the market would be of use, say for instance someone who know's their insurance game could be gilded and then give a seasoned advice to the newcomer. It could also filter out the 'homework' questions that people seem to be giving out about

Hanley

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is it down to the upswing in the Economy, less people trying to make a go of it themselves and the ones that have made it out the right side of the recession they've got a good grip on their own businesses.

I'd like a private side to the forum, there's a load of good questions you could be asking from a management side but an open forum might not be the best place for numerous reasons.

A private / invite only subsection would be INSANELY valuable as a follower, but would really rely on the established posters to be willing to put the graft in to provide the content.

It does seem like the 4 or 5 senior dogs do that willingly anyway tho, so maybe if their advice was better received and they got better questions they might do it.

jimmii

I like the idea of a private forum. On one of the other forums here I am in a WhatsApp group where we discuss things I wouldn't discuss on the forum and would think it would be the same here especially given how sensitive some things may be I know I wouldn't want to be openly discussing certain strategy things that to non-business folk could be misunderstood and no one wants to give up good stuff without getting good stuff back!

sysprogrammer

Quote:
It does seem like the 4 or 5 senior dogs do that willingly anyway tho, so maybe if their advice was better received and they got better questions they might do it.[/QUOTE]

I think we are all well aware there are some Seniors \ Dragons in here, who's advice should be heeded.

If their resume's or identities were in their signature then I believe people would take their advice and not get so uppity at how it is delivered.

Can we give our forum heavy-weights a dragon icon or something else (I'm in a text only browser!).

SysProg

jimmii

Dragon icons would be so cool!

csm

I don't contribute/follow this forum but I stumbled across this thread and had a thought. Why not try to expand your customer base, so to speak? The forum is quite narrow with a focus on business owners for the most part, and yet there are a lot more middle- and upper-management types who probably have many of the same problems/queries around business development, introducing new products, people management etc. but are not actually business owners themselves. That also broadens the questions that could be asked because you might get some on change management, strategy, innovation and so on that might be more relevant to larger, established businesses.

Maybe there's already a forum for that, and I don't know exactly how you go about it but perhaps a forum name change might be in order to remove the 'entrepreneurial' bit, or make it a sub-forum.

I mention this because I am at a point in my career where I am moving into these type roles and a lot of it is learning on the fly and anonymous guidance would occasionally be welcome

duploelabs

jimmii wrote: »

Dragon icons would be so cool!

I thought the Dragon Icons would be confined to the Game of Thrones sub

jimmii

duploelabs wrote: »

I thought the Dragon Icons would be confined to the Game of Thrones sub

Well that would just be a waste really.

Gloomtastic!

csm wrote: »

I don't contribute/follow this forum but I stumbled across this thread and had a thought. Why not try to expand your customer base, so to speak? The forum is quite narrow with a focus on business owners for the most part, and yet there are a lot more middle- and upper-management types who probably have many of the same problems/queries around business development, introducing new products, people management etc. but are not actually business owners themselves. That also broadens the questions that could be asked because you might get some on change management, strategy, innovation and so on that might be more relevant to larger, established businesses.

Maybe there's already a forum for that, and I don't know exactly how you go about it but perhaps a forum name change might be in order to remove the 'entrepreneurial' bit, or make it a sub-forum.

I mention this because I am at a point in my career where I am moving into these type roles and a lot of it is learning on the fly and anonymous guidance would occasionally be welcome

Nice idea but probably covered by Work & Jobs forum?

pedroeibar1

Some interesting comments above. What is happening here is just a simple business problem.

Boards is like a shamrock. Leaf 1 is advertising and its revenue is linked to the volume of traffic/post count. Leaf 2 consists of new or very infrequent posters who can post anything from dross (usually) to really interesting questions. Leaf 3 is the ‘expert’ poster group, who are either skilled generalists or experts on a topic. The Mods are the stem that should supervise/filter/block rubbish getting onto the ground (forum).

Leaf 3 people provide input for various reasons, but I think I would be correct in saying they contribute as a means of (a) helping those in genuine need, and (b) giving back something, akin to volunteering. Personally I look at Boards as a means of taking a break from my normal work and will post if the poster merits it, if I have the time or defer a response until I do have.

The real problem – not just on this Forum alone - is that the Mods are unpaid volunteers and like all volunteers are unevenly skilled; being human they have their own prejudices. They also do not (understandably) monitor what is posted in realtime. Their role also demands that stupid posts should be allowed because advertising revenue (L1) and traffic count (L2) have to outweigh and have priority over any blunt responses from Leaf3 people. It is very evident on Boards that good Moderating grows a forum, bad modding kills it because the better posters get bored with dross and leave. And, like the boss, mods always are right because they are the mods.

I don’t agree with a ‘private’ section as that defeats the ‘pro bono’ nature of many contributions on the forum.

I don’t agree with the ‘dragon’ idea (sorry jimmii!:o) as it would be divisive. For example I don’t agree with Rudolph on everything but when he (and a half dozen others) write on their respective topics their knowledge emanates from their posts and they do not need dragon signs.

The charter is in urgent need of updating – it is almost 3 years old.

The forum needs to be reformatted:-
Get rid of ‘Anyone care to share their story?’ as it is cringe-worthy at best and a self-advertising tool at worst.

Get rid of ‘Information, Essential Links & Books’ as it is now 8 years old, outdated, unwieldy and little used. Any really good book deserves mention and discussion in its own right. Google is there for the rest of the stuff.

There should be :
A sticky for questions on ‘Starting up a business venture’ encompassing sub-heads on Legal/admin/accounting/tax).

A sticky for questions on developing apps and IT issues.

A sticky for HR / employment issues (from an employer’s perspective).

A sticky for exporting/ growing overseas business.

A sticky for Corporate Governance.

People can use the stickies rather like a 'chat' thread and if any questions fall outside them the go directly onto the forum.

The former peterdalkey

As a business, how would you like to be approached thread by Hanley


What a wonderful thread this is. Starts out with a properly worked, clear post vitally containing enough information to prompt meaningful engagement.. The ideas/advice starts to flow nicely.

It epitomises what this forum should be all about. a very useful resource.

A good original post like this generally develops into a good thread. A poor one mostly goes downhill.

I think if there could be some sort of vetting of the first posts with content deficits pointed out to the OP to get them to provide cogent information....it would also deter the one post wonders with scatty ideas, they will never do the work needed.

pedroeibar1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Some interesting comments above. What is happening here is just a simple business problem.

Boards is like a shamrock. Leaf 1 is advertising and its revenue is linked to the volume of traffic/post count. Leaf 2 consists of new or very infrequent posters who can post anything from dross (usually) to really interesting questions. Leaf 3 is the expert poster group, who are either skilled generalists or experts on a topic. The Mods are the stem that should supervise/filter/block rubbish getting onto the ground (forum).

Leaf 3 people provide input for various reasons, but I think I would be correct in saying they contribute as a means of (a) helping those in genuine need, and (b) giving back something, akin to volunteering. Personally I look at Boards as a means of taking a break from my normal work and will post if the poster merits it, if I have the time or defer a response until I do have.

The real problem not just on this Forum alone - is that the Mods are unpaid volunteers and like all volunteers are unevenly skilled; being human they have their own prejudices. They also do not (understandably) monitor what is posted in realtime. Their role also demands that stupid posts should be allowed because advertising revenue (L1) and traffic count (L2) have to outweigh and have priority over any blunt responses from Leaf3 people. It is very evident on Boards that good Moderating grows a forum, bad modding kills it because the better posters get bored with dross and leave. And, like the boss, mods always are right because they are the mods.

I don t agree with a private section as that defeats the pro bono nature of many contributions on the forum.

I don t agree with the dragon idea (sorry jimmii!:o) as it would be divisive. For example I don t agree with Rudolph on everything but when he (and a half dozen others) write on their respective topics their knowledge emanates from their posts and they do not need dragon signs.

The charter is in urgent need of updating it is almost 3 years old.

The forum needs to be reformatted:-
Get rid of Anyone care to share their story? as it is cringe-worthy at best and a self-advertising tool at worst.

Get rid of Information, Essential Links & Books as it is now 8 years old, outdated, unwieldy and little used. Any really good book deserves mention and discussion in its own right. Google is there for the rest of the stuff.

There should be :
A sticky for questions on Starting up a business venture encompassing sub-heads on Legal/admin/accounting/tax).

A sticky for questions on developing apps and IT issues.

A sticky for HR / employment issues (from an employer s perspective).

A sticky for exporting/ growing overseas business.

A sticky for Corporate Governance.

People can use the stickies rather like a 'chat' thread and if any questions fall outside them the go directly onto the forum.

Agree with all the updating and reformatting. The Mod problem is not something thats going to change so need to work around it.

I think the Dragon thing is a good idea because its innovative and its something new which this place needs. It might also attract more experienced business people to advise, perhaps official ones from EI etc, future sponsorships and probably advertising revenue for boards. All bringing more users.
Divisive is good in my opinion, I like divisive and believe its helpful. Certain people here are better in certain areas then others, and that can be considered when a person is taking advice.

The private thing would be problematic I believe, it would be too formal and affect the pro bono aspect as Pedro says above.

If I were running this particular forum - next week I would totally reformat it. Entrepreneurial and Business Management would be broken down into three sub forums: Start Your Own Business - Once a user clicks in here they immediately see its "Resources for Entrepreneurs and First Time Business people'. That will fill up with good stuff straight away and could be a great resource with helpful stickies. If this isn't done straight away, the nail is going to be hammered into this coffin all the way down.

Second - Ideas, Sales & Marketing - New ideas can be debated, sales strategies, marketing strategies. Also have a Students debate sticky in here for homework assignments.

Third - Management and Performance - which is a bit more higher level with deeper debates

One of the Mods needs to choose a bunch of people to act as Dragons and give them an Avatar to show such, or highlight a linkedin profile in a more prominent way for a select few so people can see who the advice is coming from.

But overall bull needs to be grabbed by horns by somebody on boards, and it just needs to be done, as otherwise when there are further tumbleweeds in here in two years time it will be too late...Dudara make it happen my man!

Deub

I am a long time follower of this forum. The private forum (like for soccer) would oblige people to read the charter and I see 2 advantages:
1. It would reduce the number of people posting basic questions because they don't want to look 5min on internet to find the answer.
2. With a good charter (explaining that you need to check if a question was already posted, usefull links, etc...) it should help people to find some basic answers without posting.

dudara

@csm - I think the Business Management part of the forum title covers your area. This does not limit the scope to purely business ownership. If you have questions in this area, then please feel to ask away and start the conversation.

@the former peterdalkey - I personally am not in favour of pre-vetting or pre-moderating posts. That implies a level of elitism or "we know best". The questions that come in may be mundane at times, but everybody is entitled to have their chance to ask a question. This type of poster exists on every forum on Boards, not just here.

@El Rifle - more a case of "my lady" rather than "my man". At the moment I don't agree with the idea of "dragon posters". No other forum on Boards has elite posters readily identifiable in such a manner. Instead these posters are identifiable through the frequency they engage with the community, by the quality of their contributions and the value placed by others on their contributions.

dudara

One final comment before I leave for now to get on with my day, we could have the best written charter in the entire universe in this forum, and posters will still not read it. It's a fact of life, and something that constantly makes moderators grit their teeth. A charter is a good document to have but it should not be too prescriptive or should not be looked to as a panacea.

dudara

dudara wrote: »

@csm - I think the Business Management part of the forum title covers your area. This does not limit the scope to purely business ownership. If you have questions in this area, then please feel to ask away and start the conversation.

@the former peterdalkey - I personally am not in favour of pre-vetting or pre-moderating posts. That implies a level of elitism or "we know best". The questions that come in may be mundane at times, but everybody is entitled to have their chance to ask a question. This type of poster exists on every forum on Boards, not just here.

@El Rifle - more a case of "my lady" rather than "my man". At the moment I don't agree with the idea of "dragon posters". No other forum on Boards has elite posters readily identifiable in such a manner. Instead these posters are identifiable through the frequency they engage with the community, by the quality of their contributions and the value placed by others on their contributions.

My apologies my lady. Well we don't need to have elite posters as such, but a Linkedin profile highlighted better would give more credibility to posts and posters. This is important I believe in divisive situations. When it comes to a business, track record and experience are very important and need to be highlighted far more then the other forums.

And at this point more then ever some things need to be done that maybe are not all agreeable to you - (if your the person that will actually lead the changes). Things need to be changed and different ideas need to be tried. They may not work, but we have all established change is needed. Too much debate and disagreement, and it will just die. There was a thread 2 years ago or so about changing the forum, everyone gave ideas, mods disagreed with everything and nothing was done. We need to break the moulds here and use different rules for the B&E if necessary.

The former peterdalkey

All ears, listening... Very good! However change is clearly not on the menu, just let them have their say and they will get over it!

It appears this lady is not for turning either.....

dudara

The former peterdalkey wrote: »

It appears this lady is not for turning either.....

What basis do you have for this statement?