Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Am I the landlord?

Options
  • 05-05-2016 7:24pm
    #1
    beepbeep10
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    Hopefully someone can help.I have been letting my girlfriends brother stay in my house for the past year rent free. i haven't stayed there in a few months as I've been away and staying with my girlfriend. i found out the other week that he has been renting out two of the bed rooms,that's fine by me but i'm worried that i maybe liable for tax etc... also when i went to the house one of the people living there asked for a rent book. Do i have to give him one,should i give him one or even a lease agreement of some sort.
    i really don't want to be a landlord or have to deal with everything that goes with it.should my gf's brother give them rent books etc...
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Rackstar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Rackstar


    Are you receiving the rent? I so you are liable.


  • Options
    #3
    beepbeep10
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭beepbeep10


    i'm not receiving any money.


  • Options
    #4
    PM me nudes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭PM me nudes


    So you're letting him stay in your house free of charge and letting him keep the rent money? Taking you for a mug OP


  • Options
    #5
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    beepbeep10 wrote: »
    i'm not receiving any money.

    If you are not receiving money then you have no tax liability . Your girlfriends brother is the landlord.

    TBH. Your arrangment seems odd


  • Options
    #6
    beepbeep10
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭beepbeep10


    i know its unconventional but i works for us. So should the gf's brother be the one to give them rent book etc..


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    foxatron
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭foxatron


    So you give him a place to stay for free and he rents out two rooms keeping all the money and doesnt even tell you or offer you money. Is he having a laugh. Cheeky fooker that lad. Taking you for a fool op


  • Options
    #8
    FizzleSticks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭FizzleSticks


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #9
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    Give him a lease with permission to sublet


  • Options
    #10
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    You have no idea how much hassle this could be for you.
    Who do you think Revenue will look for tax money from? The homeowner.
    PTRB registration? ?? Insurance?? Full Capital Gains Tax liability if the property is sold.

    Good luck!


  • Options
    #11
    beepbeep10
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭beepbeep10


    Nah hes not,I own the place outright,I just haven't decided what to do with ,as in keep or sell. All i know is that i don't want to be a landlord.Suits me to have him there to keep the place safe etc.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,933 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    He's laughing at you OP, what do you do for a living that you can afford to shrug off a years rent like that anyway?


  • Options
    #13
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    beepbeep10 wrote: »
    Nah hes not,I own the place outright,I just haven't decided what to do with ,as in keep or sell. All i know is that i don't want to be a landlord.Suits me to have him there to keep the place safe etc.

    You're paying him to stay in your house in effect. He's making money purely off your good nature. Keep the place safe - but he has brought 2 strangers into your house who you know nothing about, probably haven't been properly vetted as a landlord would do. I could go on and on...


  • Options
    #14
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    The two people in the house are licensees of the brother who is receiving the house as a benefit in kind.

    The OP doesn't need to worry about what's going on in the house for tax purposes, but you do need to speak to an accountant about what liability, if any, you should be paying on the property for allowing the person to live there in part payment for employment.

    As the house is being let to a relative there isn't IIRC a need to register with the PRTB. If there is he simply needs to register for the benefit of his brother not the sublet licensees. Again check that one with the PRTB OP.


  • Options
    #15
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,510 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    What about insurance and liability for bills, you are opening yourself up to all sorts OP?


  • Options
    #16
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,020 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Is the OP for real? GF's brother being allowed stay there rent free I can probably understand given a certain set of circumstances but subletting 2 rooms without bothering to inform the OP? I can't say I'd be as laid back about the obvious deceit as the OP seems to be!


  • Options
    #17
    newacc2015
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    I assume you have renters insurance? If the place is goes up in flames tomorrow. Good luck getting the insurer to pay when they find out there was tenants in it.

    Do you have a contract that he is licensee and can be evicted at any time.


  • Options
    #18
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,304 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Ok. I'll call shenanigans on thus thread if nobody else will.

    :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #19
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    endacl wrote: »
    Ok. I'll call shenanigans on thus thread if nobody else will.

    :rolleyes:

    If you've an issue with a thread or post, use the report post button.

    Mod


  • Options
    #20
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,987 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    MarkAnthony wrote: »

    As the house is being let to a relative there isn't IIRC a need to register with the PRTB. If there is he simply needs to register for the benefit of his brother not the sublet licensees. Again check that one with the PRTB OP.

    The OP isn't related to his girlfriend's brother. While there are laws around cohabitating couples I don't think it includes siblings.


  • Options
    #21
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    OP- you are allowing multiple people stay in your property.

    1. You need landlord's insurance come what may- as if the house burns down or there is a serious damage- you are not covered with regular insurance in a case like this.

    2. You need to enumerate the BIK you are giving the guy- that is open market rent for him- alongside any rental income he gets subletting- and declare it.

    3. If anything happens to any of these people- you *are* liable as the homeowner- not your girlfriend's brother etc.

    4. You are leaving yourself very exposed here- it is not a rent-a-room situation as the guy doesn't own the property- you effectively have a couple of tenants- including the girlfriends brother. You have already been approached for a rent book- what happens if/when one of the others goes to the PRTB if there is a dispute of any nature- you- as the property owner- are going to have one hell of a problem trying to say its nothing to do with you.

    5. You are liable for any bills that occur at the property- not least of which is property tax- but utility bills etc- are now covered under the civil liabilities act which came in last year- aka if any or all of these people bugger off without paying an NTL bill (or whatever) you can be personally pursued for the bill- have your salary or other income purloined in satisfaction of the bill- or have a lien associated with the property.

    6. You are effectively an employer- paying the brother via BIK to look after the property- depending on where the property is- this could be enumerated for tax purposes in quite an onerous manner.

    7. The rental income for the others- is in your property and has to be declared. You cannot put your head in the sand and say- hey Mr. Revenue Commissioner- its nothing to do with me. You are allowing the guy collect and keep this income. It is akin to your handing him the cash yourself. It is taxable income- and you *have* to pay tax on it.

    8. You have put yourself in quite an impossible position- I don't know if you appreciate just how much paperwork you're causing for yourself- wholly aside from the fact that legally it might be argued that the guy is in fact squatting (if you are disavowing any knowledge of the rental income from the rooms etc). If you are allowing the guy stay there and let out the rooms- then you're employing him.

    You need proper tax advice- along with a session with a solicitor asap- as you are opening yourself to all manner of potential trouble. The girlfriends brother may be fine- but what happens if one of the other tenants slips and breaks their hip- and you have a 60k judgement from the PIAB (plus legal bills- if you or they dispute it).

    You don't seem to have any comprehension of the mess you have here- and contrary to what your saying- you most certainly are a landlord- and probably an employer too...........


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Would the rent free brother be liable for gift tax?


  • Options
    #23
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Would the rent free brother be liable for gift tax?

    Yes- of course he would.
    At open market rents- factoring the two bedrooms into the equation- you could be looking at an assessment north of 30k per annum- despite the OP never seeing a red penny of it. The OP seems to be sticking their head in the sand on all of this.


  • Options
    #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The fact that they asked you for a rent book suggests that they consider you to be the landlord.


  • Options
    #25
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP, get a real solicitor, rather than randoms on boards.

    As a property owner, you do have certain responsibilities and liabilities. But I do not see how you can be a landlord if you are not demanding or receiving any rent.

    I agree that your house insurance does need to know that you have someone staying in the house.


  • Options
    #26
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The OP seems to be sticking their head in the sand on all of this.

    How so? He just found out about it and is looking to find out how it effects him. That's the very opposite of sticking his head in the sand


  • Options
    #27
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dodge wrote: »
    How so? He just found out about it and is looking to find out how it effects him. That's the very opposite of sticking his head in the sand

    Well the brother has been there for a year rent free. That comes with a liability which is certainly something the OP has been ignoring even without the other tenants in the mix.


  • Options
    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The_Conductor wrote: »

    2. You need to enumerate the BIK you are giving the guy- that is open market rent for him- alongside any rental income he gets subletting- and declare it.

    I don't see how it can be looked on this way. He is doing a favour for the brother by letting him live there he isn't employing him. Gift tax for the brother in law would be the liable tax here which is nothing to do with the op.
    The_Conductor wrote: »

    4. You are leaving yourself very exposed here- it is not a rent-a-room situation as the guy doesn't own the property- you effectively have a couple of tenants- including the girlfriends brother. You have already been approached for a rent book- what happens if/when one of the others goes to the PRTB if there is a dispute of any nature- you- as the property owner- are going to have one hell of a problem trying to say its nothing to do with you.

    No matter what way you look at it the people in the house are licensees so PRTB etc isn't a concern. They are either either licensees of the brother or of the op. I get the impression the the op still officially lives there too and has a room etc so I would say the brother and the others are licensees of the op.

    If it's still his primary residence and he is just unofficially living with his gf then everything could still fall under rent a room scheme even.

    That said he is mad to be allowing the brother in law live rent free and he crazier to be allowing him rent out rooms. I hope he told that person living there that they aren't entitled to a rent book also.

    Best thing for him to do is move back in full time again and immediately ask the people living there to move out and then either move the brother in law out also or tell him he is not permitted to have other people living there. I'd also absolutely eat the head off him for the absolute cheek to rent out rooms like that.
    The_Conductor wrote: »
    6. You are effectively an employer- paying the brother via BIK to look after the property- depending on where the property is- this could be enumerated for tax purposes in quite an onerous manner.

    Again can't see how you are arriving at this conclusion, don't see how anyone could consider him to be employing the brother in law and how BIK would even come into it.


  • Options
    #29
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,935 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Adelyn Thousands Principal wrote: »
    Again can't see how you are arriving at this conclusion, don't see how anyone could consider him to be employing the brother in law and how BIK would even come into it.

    Revenue may look at it that way: BIL is being employed to provide security at the property. BIL has tax liability for the benefit he is receiving. OP has perhaps employer liability as well.

    It's one of the lesser-known downsides of letting a property for less than the market rate, and a real pain-in-the-ass for people like the OP.


  • Options
    #30
    Jen44
    Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Jen44


    you are nuts! That guy is taking you for a fool also as owner of the house if anything dodgy went down etc im sure its you who will have questions to answer


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    beepbeep10 wrote: »
    also when i went to the house one of the people living there asked for a rent book
    The gf's brother has labeled you as the landlord, and him as the collector of rent. If anything goes sideways, the gf's brother will probably let you hang for it.

    Oh, and consider did he tell you about the tenants, or did you only find out when you got there? If the latter, I'd wonder what else he hasn't told you?


Advertisement