National demonstration against the rising cost of insurance

alta stare

shietpilot wrote: »

I saw Shane Byrne organised a little meetup in Ballymount last night. Some serious handbrake turns...

Im guessing you have a serious dislike for him does he even drive a car worthy of showing off?

tipptom

It would be interesting to know what sort of profits these insurance company's are making from car insurance in Ireland?

shietpilot

alta stare wrote: »

shietpilot wrote: »

I saw Shane Byrne organised a little meetup in Ballymount last night. Some serious handbrake turns...

Im guessing you have a serious dislike for him does he even drive a car worthy of showing off?

Why would I not dislike him when he went to the media and made a show of himself and allowed the media to tar every single car enthusiast with the same boyracer brush? That lad should not be organising a cruise for a protest against insurance when all his wannabe racer gang spend nights doing illegal drag races, burnouts and handbrake turns.

Absolute tool he is to be honest, on RTE thinking his Ballymount meets are perfectly safe and saying things like "see the way that lad slowed down before the turn there, just in case some random person driving on the road doesn't get hit".

He drives an Altezza like the rest of the cone kings...

greengone

tipptom wrote: »

It would be interesting to know what sort of profits these insurance company's are making from car insurance in Ireland?

Not so easy to do to calculate the profits as it often takes 7 years for the big claims to work thier way through the system

That means the scam artists can set up shop sell low and do runner to Malta after 6 to 7 years with the loot leaving the mess for the hapless Irish car owners to pay in increased levies .

Presently the South Irish car Insurance industry gives 10% of the loot they take from us in premuims to the South Irish governement to finance the made guys in MIBI who pay out from the uninsured cars

The payments for the Injuries in Ireland if calculated per car in south Ireland is about €125 to €150 per south irish car per year to cover all injuries and death claims .

The insentive is for the Car insurance industry to make this figure €150 for all premuims for all cars to be 10% tending to mean all third party insurance will tend to to €1500
Then that will be the norm soon for basic third party insurance

Thats why the car insurance premuims are going orbital the Insurance industry dont want to carry any of the 10% they fork out against thier profits calculations .

The car insurance premuims would drop overnight if the government took a flat fee of €150 euros from each car in ROI to cover third party injury and death claims and they could still pay out via the normal injuries board

Its not so very fair big cars would pay the same as small cars.
Low milage car would pay the same as high milage cars .
There would be no real way to make no claims bonus as it would be insurance to the car rather than to to driver.
But would be a soltuion to this profits bonaza the system created allow all Irish car owners a once a year annual fee of €150 to cover all injuries and death from car accidents.

That is a car Insuarnce system many countries in the third world still use to this day and was popular in the history

The car insurance could do the rest comprhensive and damage to property and because it was not compulsary the premuims would rapidly fall

However the chances the leinster house Government would do that are close to non and @#?% ALL

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

Would it be worthwhile getting in touch with a few classic car groups and the likes? A few old yokes hovering around might balance out the scummer element, and seeing an odd array of cars (vintage stuff) will attract positive attention, no?


Also, could be worth hiring the A-Team.

Or at least, getting their van. Or a Starsky and Hutch car, or a Stone Cold pick-up truck, etc. to lead in the route, to draw people's attention..?

As it is.. it might not look like a protest, but instead just look like.. you know.. traffic..

i think the classic car guys with classic policies will quite rightly keep their heads down and not rock the boat

Liam McPoyle

greengone wrote: »

Not so easy to do to calculate the profits as it often takes 7 years for the big claims to work thier way through the system

That means the scam artists can set up shop sell low and do runner to Malta after 6 to 7 years with the loot leaving the mess for the hapless Irish car owners to pay in increased levies .

Presently the South Irish car Insurance industry gives 10% of the loot they take from us in premuims to the South Irish governement to finance the made guys in MIBI who pay out from the uninsured cars

The payments for the Injuries in Ireland if calculated per car in south Ireland is about €125 to €150 per south irish car per year to cover all injuries and death claims .

The insentive is for the Car insurance industry to make this figure €150 for all premuims for all cars to be 10% tending to mean all third party insurance will tend to to €1500
Then that will be the norm soon for basic third party insurance

Thats why the car insurance premuims are going orbital the Insurance industry dont want to carry any of the 10% they fork out against thier profits calculations .

The car insurance premuims would drop overnight if the government took a flat fee of €150 euros from each car in ROI to cover third party injury and death claims and they could still pay out via the normal injuries board

Its not so very fair big cars would pay the same as small cars.
Low milage car would pay the same as high milage cars .
There would be no real way to make no claims bonus as it would be insurance to the car rather than to to driver.
But would be a soltuion to this profits bonaza the system created allow all Irish car owners a once a year annual fee of €150 to cover all injuries and death from car accidents.

That is a car Insuarnce system many countries in the third world still use to this day and was popular in the history

The car insurance could do the rest comprhensive and damage to property and because it was not compulsary the premuims would rapidly fall

However the chances the leinster house Government would do that are close to non and @#?% ALL

Where are you getting the figures from?

What about claims that are settled directly with insurers?

What about non motor claims - public liability, employers liability etc?

All of those claims have to be paid too.

There is not a separate pot for motor and non motor claims.

Why did Setanta go bankrupt?

Why did Quinn Direct go bankrupt?

Why did FBD have to get an €80,000,000 investment from across the Atlantic?

Why did 123.ie have to get over €200,000,000 from RSA to plug the hole in their claims reserves?

If insurance is such a garaunteed cash cow why aren't other insurers tripping over themselves to set up shop in Ireland?

Liam McPoyle

colm_mcm wrote: »

i think the classic car guys with classic policies will quite rightly keep their heads down and not rock the boat

Exactly, Campions for example have a scheme where people can get classic / vintage insurance for less than €300 in many cases.

ROVER

tipptom wrote: »

It would be interesting to know what sort of profits these insurance company's are making from car insurance in Ireland?

In today's Indo http://www.independent.ie/news/allianz-hikes-premiums-by-52pc-as-it-records-losses-34707493.html

Liam McPoyle

ROVER wrote: »

In today's Indo http://www.independent.ie/news/allianz-hikes-premiums-by-52pc-as-it-records-losses-34707493.html

That can't be right, they must be lying.

Sure motor insurance is like the goose that lays the golden egg.

Its all big profits, caviar and yachts.

Special Circumstances

Lol, banned old cars and found that a bigger proportion of their portfolio was inclined to claim.
Absolutely fxcking stunned hahaha.
Will they apply better criteria next year? Will they fvck, double down on the stupidity - 10yr age limit next year.

dr.fuzzenstein

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Lol, banned old cars and found that a bigger proportion of their portfolio was inclined to claim.
Absolutely fxcking stunned hahaha.
Will they apply better criteria next year? Will they fvck, double down on the stupidity - 10yr age limit next year.

I dont know why you would find that funny. Insurance companies cannot tackle the real issues (stupidly high payouts, i.e. ten times what they need to be, you get €20k here, you'll get €2k in Germany for the same injury, as in a bit of a sore neck), all they can do is move the deckchairs on the Titanic, i.e. age limits for cars and insane premiums for young drivers, we're right back where we were in the 90's, car insurance was completely insane back then too. Back then insurance companies tried to tackle the issue, fighting claims and setting up a confidential hotline, getting the injuries board set up as well as running ads about Joe's brass neck and to shop the bastard for over claiming. The industry has now rightly said "you know, fcuk it. We'll just pay out and hike premiums until something is done about this". Of course Irish politics is run by laziness, ineptitude, greed and corruption, so nothing was done. Maybe politicians will be forced to do something once premiums hit an average of a thousand Euro, maybe then those lazy, greedy, stupid bastards might, just might get off their fat useless arses and finally do something. But I'm not hopeful. Why tackle a crisis when you can wait until its a catastrophe? That and " sorry, not my job" should be the motto of any Irish government.

Autosport

It was a topic on the news tonight and the CEO of insurance Ireland was talking and he just said that they (insurance companies) have being saying for years that something has to be done about insurance premiums. I don't think it was given enough coverage

Vicxas

These god awful personal injury claims are not helping either. The amount some pay out is criminal in itself.

Special Circumstances

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I dont know why you would find that funny. Insurance companies cannot tackle the real issues (stupidly high payouts, i.e. ten times what they need to be, you get €20k here, you'll get €2k in Germany for the same injury, as in a bit of a sore neck), all they can do is move the deckchairs on the Titanic, i.e. age limits for cars and insane premiums for young drivers, we're right back where we were in the 90's, car insurance was completely insane back then too. Back then insurance companies tried to tackle the issue, fighting claims and setting up a confidential hotline, getting the injuries board set up as well as running ads about Joe's brass neck and to shop the bastard for over claiming. The industry has now rightly said "you know, fcuk it. We'll just pay out and hike premiums until something is done about this". Of course Irish politics is run by laziness, ineptitude, greed and corruption, so nothing was done. Maybe politicians will be forced to do something once premiums hit an average of a thousand Euro, maybe then those lazy, greedy, stupid bastards might, just might get off their fat useless arses and finally do something. But I'm not hopeful. Why tackle a crisis when you can wait until its a catastrophe? That and " sorry, not my job" should be the motto of any Irish government.

I find it absolutely hilarious.

Have they all lost money? In that case they should all just bail out and properly force the issue. Abandon ship. Law of the jungle on iris roads until the government fix things.

Insurers trying to force the government hand by telling them "look we're going to keep raising the cost of a legally required service en masse until you help us out"?? LOL. .. we're dealing with people who think irish water was well implemented and good value, it'll be a long long time before they blink and think the people are being ridden a little too roughly.

If the insurers haven't all lost money... why did Allianz lose money? Is it perhaps some giant conspiracy that all the scammers of the country decided to buy 13yr old cars and get insured with Allianz just to mess with them?

Or does the fact that they saw a 25% decrease in the number of "no payout" policies suggest that they have actually sent decent customers to the competition with their policies. Aye, there's the LOL.

There's no greater lol than an insurer hoist by their own petard.

Special Circumstances

Vicxas wrote: »

These god awful personal injury claims are not helping either. The amount some pay out is criminal in itself.

The insurers seem to be big fans of black boxes for cars. "Only those with something to hide will fear them and object to them".

The logical conclusion would be that we should all wear our own array of telemetry sensors to verify whereabouts, impacts, accelerations, "statistically risky behaviour" preceding incidents.

Discount on access to a premises or the products if you have an approved telemetry device. A tamper proof collar with the insurers logo on it perhaps.

;-)

Kiangriffin

Just need to point out, the vast majority attending this are standard cars. less than a quarter would be the "boy racer" sort. There's an awful lot of 30+ YO drivers coming.

Liam McPoyle

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Just need to point out, the vast majority attending this are standard cars. less than a quarter would be the "boy racer" sort. There's an awful lot of 30+ YO drivers coming.

Well I hope its a success anyway mate, things do need to change and I have a genuine fear that it will take one of the big players exiting the market before that will happen.

The problem with a public event like this is that anyone can go.

Less than a quarter is still a substantial number of "boy racer" types.

All it takes is one jackass to step out of line that's what the press reports will run with.

Seth Brundle

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Just need to point out, the vast majority attending this are standard cars. less than a quarter would be the "boy racer" sort. There's an awful lot of 30+ YO drivers coming.

Not sure was I missed or ignored but I'll try again...

kbannon wrote: »

What exactly are your demands?
Have you any suggestions on what should be done to meet these demands?
Have you a timeline of when you want your demands made?
Have you anyone "noteworthy" to assist your cause or will it simply be reported as some anonymous car enthusiasts causing trouble?
What media outlets have been notified?
Who will be speaking at this event?
Assuming you get the stage, how will your protesters gather in front of it - will they be sitting in their cars or will they have left to find a parking spot?

Kiangriffin

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Well I hope its a success anyway mate, things do need to change and I have a genuine fear that it will take one of the big players exiting the market before that will happen.

The problem with a public event like this is that anyone can go.

Less than a quarter is still a substantial number of "boy racer" types.

All it takes is one jackass to step out of line that's what the press reports will run with.

That's the risk we take unfortunately. Hoping the Guards will help us keep them under control though.

greengone

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Where are you getting the figures from?

What about claims that are settled directly with insurers?

What about non motor claims - public liability, employers liability etc?

All of those claims have to be paid too.

There is not a separate pot for motor and non motor claims.

Why did Setanta go bankrupt?

Why did Quinn Direct go bankrupt?

Why did FBD have to get an €80,000,000 investment from across the Atlantic?

Why did 123.ie have to get over €200,000,000 from RSA to plug the hole in their claims reserves?

If insurance is such a garaunteed cash cow why aren't other insurers tripping over themselves to set up shop in Ireland?

I just got good memeory from many forums that cover these subjects

If you trawl the Boards you will find many links to how much the MIBI pays out how much injury boards pays out minus the car accident injuries etc

You will find in Boards the total amount the Car insurance industry charges

My last computer with all the links was stolen so I work from memeory banks in the noggin for now

Then you take these numbers devide them out multiply them out whatever to expose the averages for premuims something which is something like less than €600 per year and so forth to arrive at the numbers we irish motorist care about

Basically We Irish average joe pays €600 per year for car insurance .
On average we drive 107 years before we have a crash claim event or 0.7 % of motorists will have a crash event in each year .
Those crash event numbers are in line with the rest of the western world so no spike in crash events.
Tables of the payouts show average crash event for injuries are some less than 23k much in line with western world average so no spike in payouts there

Setanta was simple scam .They took the average €500 to €600 for some seven years and sent the loot to Malta .Then when the big claims arrived after 7 years they flew the coop in thier ( PJ) Private jet .
So all the big claims were left behind and the government had to sort it
.So as always they devided the claims amoung thier freinds the Car insurance industry and said increase the levy which covers the PMPA Quinn and other historical messes that needed to be covered up .
Also thier last message from the last Leister House was make profits to pay our bungs even if you have to rape the Irish car motorists with shafts with no lube


Its all there the numbers expose the massive fraud is you bother to look .
The injuries board does devide the sectors and Motor insuirance is 75% of the pot and the Indo linkl before also states that
I dont have time to be your personal secatary
I am just another irish joe soap motorist suffering massive increased car insurance shafting and there was no lube .
Find faults with my numbers go on then come back it wrong here here and here but extroidanarly the indo backed me up in most of my numbers a few days later .

me I knew a little something about insurance before but after this raping event looked into the whole subject and it worse than a can of worms it is fraud Bungs and the system out to screw little old muggins paddy

They got us for €9000 euros for each irish person with the banking crisis SCAM while the average person in Europe only paid less than €300 per person for that crisis , but muggins Irish bent over and took the shaft with no lube

EU Eurocrat criminals saw us for suckers and came to rape us every which way from international Insurance to any scam you can think so I fight back best I can

Maybe the indo saw boards and saw the scam exposed in your face and finaly wrote it up while the government wasnt in power

Kiangriffin

kbannon wrote: »

Not sure was I missed or ignored but I'll try again...

Sorry bud I missed that (new to boards, I'd say I've missed a lot more besides).

What exactly are your demands? - We want government intervention into the insurance costs. Primarily by making it easier for insurance companies to tackle fraudulent claims and by reducing the cost of payouts. We also want a thorough investigation into whether or not these are really the causes of the price hike or if there is some form of price fixing going on.

Have you any suggestions on what should be done to meet these demands? A review of the judicial system in relation to insurance fraud would be a good start

Have you a timeline of when you want your demands made? No

Have you anyone "noteworthy" to assist your cause or will it simply be reported as some anonymous car enthusiasts causing trouble? Various TD's are backing us, most in opposition. Primarily SF (Martin Ferris at the forefront) Numerous Councillors have also been in touch, whether they will give public backing is yet to be seen.

What media outlets have been notified? This was covered on the front page of the sun, joe.ie, the sunday world, the indo, theliberal.ie, bignewsnetwork.com, 4FM, Q102, 98FM, 96FM. I'll be on KFM and C103 Radio on Monday. TV3 have been notified as have RTÉ and RnaG are covering it on Monday morning, though without a live interview.

Who will be speaking at this event? We are not sure if speakers can be arranged as Gardai have said we could be prosecuted if we stop the cars and hold up traffic, so likely to be a slow, rolling demonstration with a follow up arranged in a location to host speakers. I'll be consulting further with the Gardai though to see if we can come to some arrangement.

Assuming you get the stage, how will your protesters gather in front of it - will they be sitting in their cars or will they have left to find a parking spot? See above re stopping traffic.

Hope that covers it!

Kiangriffin

Forgot to ad, I'll be interviewed for Irish TV on Sky too.

cnocbui

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The issue is the cost and frequency of claims. High premiums are a result of these. No insurer is cleaning up financially.

Slashing court awards and legal fees is the only way forward.

Blocking any road is stupid.

The Insurance industry in Ireland was cleaning up and are very deft at making it appear their profits are low. I can think of no reason to think they are not still highly profitable.

Car insurance sector coy about profitability

Meanwhile, the IIF has gone on the offensive, cherry picking from its own report to find facts and figures supporting its position, while at the same time skimming over some rather less useful findings.

One such figure is to be found on Page 32 of the Tillinghast report, which shows that since 1983 motor insurers operating in the Irish market have made after-tax profits totalling £342 million. This is more than 11 times the after-tax profits made by the UK motor insurance industry in the same period.

Similarly, the Irish industry as a whole lost money in only three years between 1983 and 1999, while its counterpart in the UK has lost money on eight occasions.

The report also confirms some of the most worrying trends in the board's interim report. These include the finding that some sections of the market are paying well over the odds for insurance, amongst them men and women aged between 17 and 25.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/car-insurance-sector-coy-about-profitability-1.340284

I do agree with you about awards. Do what they did in Australia - a schedule of injuries with fixed awards. Insurance in Australai costs a fraction of the rip-off it is here.

Special Circumstances

greengone wrote: »

I just got good memeory from many forums that cover these subjects

If you trawl the Boards you will find many links to how much the MIBI pays out how much injury boards pays out minus the car accident injuries etc

You will find in Boards the total amount the Car insurance industry charges

My last computer with all the links was stolen so I work from memeory banks in the noggin for now

Then you take these numbers devide them out multiply them out whatever to expose the averages for premuims something which is something like less than €600 per year and so forth to arrive at the numbers we irish motorist care about

Basically We Irish average joe pays €600 per year for car insurance .
On average we drive 107 years before we have a crash claim event or 0.7 % of motorists will have a crash event in each year .
Those crash event numbers are in line with the rest of the western world so no spike in crash events.
Tables of the payouts show average crash event for injuries are some less than 23k much in line with western world average so no spike in payouts there

Setanta was simple scam .They took the average €500 to €600 for some seven years and sent the loot to Malta .Then when the big claims arrived after 7 years they flew the coop in thier ( PJ) Private jet .
So all the big claims were left behind and the government had to sort it
.So as always they devided the claims amoung thier freinds the Car insurance industry and said increase the levy which covers the PMPA Quinn and other historical messes that needed to be covered up .
Also thier last message from the last Leister House was make profits to pay our bungs even if you have to rape the Irish car motorists with shafts with no lube


Its all there the numbers expose the massive fraud is you bother to look .
The injuries board does devide the sectors and Motor insuirance is 75% of the pot and the Indo linkl before also states that
I dont have time to be your personal secatary
I am just another irish joe soap motorist suffering massive increased car insurance shafting and there was no lube .
Find faults with my numbers go on then come back it wrong here here and here but extroidanarly the indo backed me up in most of my numbers a few days later .

me I knew a little something about insurance before but after this raping event looked into the whole subject and it worse than a can of worms it is fraud Bungs and the system out to screw little old muggins paddy

They got us for €9000 euros for each irish person with the banking crisis SCAM while the average person in Europe only paid less than €300 per person for that crisis , but muggins Irish bent over and took the shaft with no lube

EU Eurocrat criminals saw us for suckers and came to rape us every which way from international Insurance to any scam you can think so I fight back best I can

Maybe the indo saw boards and saw the scam exposed in your face and finaly wrote it up while the government wasnt in power

None of the insurance cats ever address long posts like this. Their script directs them straight to "you don't understand". Then they're off again with "genuine cases should suffer so that the scammers are hit".

They could weed out the scammers a bit more but it's just cheaper/easier to hit everyone. Not like Joe Average is gonna chance it without insurance.

Charles Babbage

cnocbui wrote: »

The Insurance industry in Ireland was cleaning up and are very deft at making it appear their profits are low. I can think of no reason to think they are not still highly profitable.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/car-insurance-sector-coy-about-profitability-1.340284

.

Why not start an insurance company then and rake in the loot. If everyone got involved you could call it the Private Motorists Protection
Association.

wonski

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Why not start an insurance company then and rake in the loot. If everyone got involved you could call it the Private Motorists Protection
Association.

It's like saying why don't you open a lidl like and sell a grocery and power tools since they are making lot of money...

It's not as simple as that, though.

The insurance market in Ireland is rotten, people are being robbed by their premiums and given no options when insuring second car.

I genuinely hate them, but have no choice but to pay the price.

Seth Brundle

wonski wrote: »

The insurance market in Ireland is rotten, people are being robbed by their premiums and given no options when insuring second car.

So all those Irish people working for them must be some kind of traitors? :rolleyes:

It's much the same in the UK anyhow, just a bigger market.

Special Circumstances

kbannon wrote: »

:
It's much the same in the UK anyhow, just a bigger market.

15year old car ban and very difficult to insure more than one car? No working database of insurance details for ANPR? No transparent insurance groupings for every model of car so you laugh in someone's headset when they claim a tdi family saloon is a weapon of mass destruction?

I had no idea things were falling apart for them. ;-) :-) they definitely should Brexit, they'll be running around in loincloths battering each other with sticks if they stay glued to EU any longer.

Special Circumstances

cnocbui wrote: »

I do agree with you about awards. Do what they did in Australia - a schedule of injuries with fixed awards. Insurance in Australai costs a fraction of the rip-off it is here.

Maybe you know this. Or maybe someone else does. Maybe someone knows how the magical germafrenches work this.

You are hit from behind. Absolutely no suggestion of any fault on your side.

You have soft tissue injuries but you get paid a small amount of money. Like 600 i think was mentioned in other countries.

Like 6 doctor visits + medical report (approx 500 - 600 at a guess), plus MRI($$), plus 10 physio visits( say 500?). Eeek already in a bit of a hole here lads, but we've been told insurers need to make more money so suck it up.

Say that no account is given of your time taken up with the whole process. Say no account is given to the leisure activities or sleep lost out on due to pain. Say the only thing that matters is verifiable loss of earnings because what are we if not cogs in the machine and nothing more.


Now, despite being blameless, and already at a loss financially for treatment in Ireland, and in terms of time and enjoyment, you must then declare that you made a claim when you go for your own insurance.

Your ncb is safe, but you will still be charged extra for 3-5years because of making a claim.
Say a 1k insurance policy, not at all uncommon next year. Plus 20% for 3 years.

Oh another 600yoyo in the red through no fault of your own.

Those magical 600euros don't be long disappearing in Ireland.

So I would say that the "600 euro only you're on your own after that" is as much a fairy story as the "soft tissue injuries don't exist" line. There are obviously other costs behind the scenes even in magical countries that we don't live or drive in.

Perhaps, shockingly, insurance companies in this fierce civilised countries aren't allowed to claw back any payouts by hitting the victims over 3-5years?

Liam McPoyle

greengone wrote: »

I just got good memeory from many forums that cover these subjects

If you trawl the Boards you will find many links to how much the MIBI pays out how much injury boards pays out minus the car accident injuries etc

You will find in Boards the total amount the Car insurance industry charges

My last computer with all the links was stolen so I work from memeory banks in the noggin for now

Then you take these numbers devide them out multiply them out whatever to expose the averages for premuims something which is something like less than €600 per year and so forth to arrive at the numbers we irish motorist care about

Basically We Irish average joe pays €600 per year for car insurance .
On average we drive 107 years before we have a crash claim event or 0.7 % of motorists will have a crash event in each year .
Those crash event numbers are in line with the rest of the western world so no spike in crash events.
Tables of the payouts show average crash event for injuries are some less than 23k much in line with western world average so no spike in payouts there

Setanta was simple scam .They took the average €500 to €600 for some seven years and sent the loot to Malta .Then when the big claims arrived after 7 years they flew the coop in thier ( PJ) Private jet .
So all the big claims were left behind and the government had to sort it
.So as always they devided the claims amoung thier freinds the Car insurance industry and said increase the levy which covers the PMPA Quinn and other historical messes that needed to be covered up .
Also thier last message from the last Leister House was make profits to pay our bungs even if you have to rape the Irish car motorists with shafts with no lube


Its all there the numbers expose the massive fraud is you bother to look .
The injuries board does devide the sectors and Motor insuirance is 75% of the pot and the Indo linkl before also states that
I dont have time to be your personal secatary
I am just another irish joe soap motorist suffering massive increased car insurance shafting and there was no lube .
Find faults with my numbers go on then come back it wrong here here and here but extroidanarly the indo backed me up in most of my numbers a few days later .

me I knew a little something about insurance before but after this raping event looked into the whole subject and it worse than a can of worms it is fraud Bungs and the system out to screw little old muggins paddy

They got us for €9000 euros for each irish person with the banking crisis SCAM while the average person in Europe only paid less than €300 per person for that crisis , but muggins Irish bent over and took the shaft with no lube

EU Eurocrat criminals saw us for suckers and came to rape us every which way from international Insurance to any scam you can think so I fight back best I can

Maybe the indo saw boards and saw the scam exposed in your face and finaly wrote it up while the government wasnt in power

So you are essentially saying that every insurance company that have issued annual reports and accounts that show a loss are all lying?

Where are you getting your prices from Setanta because I dealt with them for almost two years when I worked in a brokers and their average pricing would have been less than €400, nearer to €300 in many cases.

You are saying that people pay an average of €600 for their insurance in Ireland. People are currently up in arms about the prices they have to pay but you are saying that Setanta were charging the same prices when they were operating as people are paying now? That doesnt make alot of sense.

I dont expect you to be a secretary for me but you are making some pretty big statements so saying "I remember it from somewhere else" simply does not wash.

In relation to Setanta going under being a massive scam and that they took their private jet full off money back to Malta, again, how do you know this?

There has been absolutely nothing in the media to suggest that they didn't go bankrupt, are all the journalists, commentators and media outlets being paid off by Setanta? That's pretty worrying because its the only logical explanation for you being the only person that knows this.

What about the non motor claims, are they all lies too?

I could go on but there is little point. This is your fifth or sixth account you have had on Boards (at least) and you have posted the same rubbish with each and every one, I made the mistake on more than one occasion to try and engage with you but you are in my opinion undebateable. You have crackpot theories and you cannot reason nor argue with a crackpot.

greengone

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

So you are essentially saying that every insurance company that have issued annual reports and accounts that show a loss are all lying?

Where are you getting your prices from Setanta because I dealt with them for almost two years when I worked in a brokers and their average pricing would have been less than €400, nearer to €300 in many cases.

You are saying that people pay an average of €600 for their insurance in Ireland. People are currently up in arms about the prices they have to pay but you are saying that Setanta were charging the same prices when they were operating as people are paying now? That doesnt make alot of sense.

I dont expect you to be a secretary for me but you are making some pretty big statements so saying "I remember it from somewhere else" simply does not wash.

In relation to Setanta going under being a massive scam and that they took their private jet full off money back to Malta, again, how do you know this?

There has been absolutely nothing in the media to suggest that they didn't go bankrupt, are all the journalists, commentators and media outlets being paid off by Setanta? That's pretty worrying because its the only logical explanation for you being the only person that knows this.

What about the non motor claims, are they all lies too?

I could go on but there is little point. This is your fifth or sixth account you have had on Boards (at least) and you have posted the same rubbish with each and every one, I made the mistake on more than one occasion to try and engage with you but you are in my opinion undebateable. You have crackpot theories and you cannot reason nor argue with a crackpot.

Acountants can make 2+2 equal any number they want

lets asume that Setanta had average premuim of €300
They had some €25000 premuims
that makes €25000x3000 = €7,500,000

over 7 years that 7.5M x 7= 52,000,000

assuming running costs and payout for small claims of 50% that leaves €25,000,000 sent to Malta .Then when the big claims came in after 7 years which last i saw were more than 35 million they went into a zombie state .
Now the rest of the peoples of Ireland will pick up this tab in increased levies and the PJ are gone to warmer climes with the loot

Clear as day to me good scam if you can have some of that action

However accountants will make any number they want and keep the zombie banks of Ireland going when they were bust from the day they opened thier doors way back in the time of formation of banks and thier banking scam

Insurance works under the banks system which is bust so the blind lead the blind and the system stagers along robbing the peoples of Ireland

Yeah stop the fires of scam exposed how you want but even the INDO and the head of the Irish legal system says irish car insurance is all a scam to rape us stupid .

I worked many years ago in Brokers and decided after two years the entire Assurance and Insurance industry was the biggest scam I ever saw and I left it in mid 80s

ever since he results of brokers has been ruination for many people I know who invested in that system . Those who agreed with me and did not invest with tbrokers of shares life assurances and other derivitives either made more money or lost a lot less than the investing in the SCAM the brokers sold to them .

So your argument might work in your sheltered world of Brokers but us car driving victims know your part of the biggest SCAM indutry of parsites that ever hit the shores of Ireland

Smeel the coffee the Car insurance has lit the fuse and the Irish peoples are fed up with Malta pirates and Irish governemnts with bungs ripping them off

You can fool some the people all the time some people some the time but you cant fool all the people all of the time

It looking to me that Leinster house time is up and time to find a new job the people are on the war path the Bungs are gonna dry up fast


You should look this it explains it all and destroys the D4 ding dongs crap in thier heads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Zqbg6QThg

cnocbui

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

So you are essentially saying that every insurance company that have issued annual reports and accounts that show a loss are all lying?...

They probably are. http://www.irishtimes.com/business/car-insurance-sector-coy-about-profitability-1.340284

Liam McPoyle

cnocbui wrote: »

They probably are. http://www.irishtimes.com/business/car-insurance-sector-coy-about-profitability-1.340284

An article from 15 years ago.

Before the consumer protection code.

Before compliance.

Before the economic collapse.

Before central bank audits.

Before Quinn and Setanta went bankrupt.

Before Solvency 2 requirements.

See where I'm going with this?

InTheTrees

I'm in the USA where driving standards are notoriously terrible.

The accident/mortality rate here is around 4 times the rate in europe as far as I know. Accidents all the time.

The drivers test in most states takes around thirty minutes, which includes the driving around the block with an "inspector". Its rare for people to fail. And kids can get a full unrestricted license at 16 years old. Driving standards are awful.

Plus take into account that medical expenses in the USA are through the roof. A night in hospital can be many thousands of dollars.

From google: Average cost of comprehensive Insurance in the city of Seattle: $1400 a year (e1200)

I'm a bit older but it costs me $600/yr for me old Porsche, which i drive every day to commute.

Seth Brundle

greengone wrote: »

Acountants can make 2+2 equal any number they want

lets asume that Setanta had average premuim of €300
They had some €25000 premuims
that makes €25000x3000 = €7,500,000

over 7 years that 7.5M x 7= 52,000,000

assuming running costs and payout for small claims of 50% that leaves €25,000,000 sent to Malta .Then when the big claims came in after 7 years which last i saw were more than 35 million they went into a zombie state .
Now the rest of the peoples of Ireland will pick up this tab in increased levies and the PJ are gone to warmer climes with the loot

Clear as day to me good scam if you can have some of that action

However accountants will make any number they want and keep the zombie banks of Ireland going when they were bust from the day they opened thier doors way back in the time of formation of banks and thier banking scam

Insurance works under the banks system which is bust so the blind lead the blind and the system stagers along robbing the peoples of Ireland

Yeah stop the fires of scam exposed how you want but even the INDO and the head of the Irish legal system says irish car insurance is all a scam to rape us stupid .

I worked many years ago in Brokers and decided after two years the entire Assurance and Insurance industry was the biggest scam I ever saw and I left it in mid 80s

ever since he results of brokers has been ruination for many people I know who invested in that system . Those who agreed with me and did not invest with tbrokers of shares life assurances and other derivitives either made more money or lost a lot less than the investing in the SCAM the brokers sold to them .

So your argument might work in your sheltered world of Brokers but us car driving victims know your part of the biggest SCAM indutry of parsites that ever hit the shores of Ireland

Smeel the coffee the Car insurance has lit the fuse and the Irish peoples are fed up with Malta pirates and Irish governemnts with bungs ripping them off

You can fool some the people all the time some people some the time but you cant fool all the people all of the time

It looking to me that Leinster house time is up and time to find a new job the people are on the war path the Bungs are gonna dry up fast


You should look this it explains it all and destroys the D4 ding dongs crap in thier heads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Zqbg6QThg

Is there an actual argument hidden somewhere inside this paranoid diatribe?

shietpilot

Bettystown beach cruise hosted today by Shane Byrne & Co today, "strictly no messing" turned into 2 Subarus, 1 BMW and 1 MX5 doing rings on the beach. I can't see these lads behaving during the insurance protest :P

Kiangriffin

shietpilot wrote: »

Bettystown beach cruise hosted today by Shane Byrne & Co today, "strictly no messing" turned into 2 Subarus, 1 BMW and 1 MX5 doing rings on the beach. I can't see these lads behaving during the insurance protest :P

Don't worry, I'm making sure the guards are aware of the "high risk" participants.

shietpilot

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Don't worry, I'm making sure the guards are aware of the "high risk" participants.

The Garda are no use in this case though. If there's any messing it will be already too late when the Gardai come in to intervene. IMO, this whole demonstration should be happening with stock non-modified cars.

It is the low risk drivers in stock cars that are getting screwed with high insurance costs and not the guys with modified cars with the only thought in their heads being when can they do some rings.

robarmstrong

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Don't worry, I'm making sure the guards are aware of the "high risk" participants.

Every time that pleb breathes, humanity as a whole suffers a little. He and any of his moronic followers should steer well clear of this demonstration, personally if I were you I'd message him and politely ask him not to tag along, seriously he'll ruin any positive image you're aiming for.

It'd be a waste to see you all be made fools out of.

Kiangriffin

shietpilot wrote: »

The Garda are no use in this case though. If there's any messing it will be already too late when the Gardai come in to intervene. IMO, this whole demonstration should be happening with stock non-modified cars.

It is the low risk drivers in stock cars that are getting screwed with high insurance costs and not the guys with modified cars with the only thought in their heads being when can they do some rings.

The Guards will be there at the scene, it's not a case of call them if something happens. They will be monitoring the entire thing. Also, please don't paint all of us with modified cars as poor drivers. The vast majority of fraud claims and accidents are caused by stock cars. Also, the absolute majority here will be in standard cars.

Kiangriffin

robarmstrong wrote: »

Every time that pleb breathes, humanity as a whole suffers a little. He and any of his moronic followers should steer well clear of this demonstration, personally if I were you I'd message him and politely ask him not to tag along, seriously he'll ruin any positive image you're aiming for.

It'd be a waste to see you all be made fools out of.

Ordinarily I would but he's actually been very decent and helpful working with us on this. I won't judge any person until I've met them and it's in their own interest to look good for this one. We'll be giving them no room for anything either way. We have plenty people to keep any messers in check.

Henry Ford III

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Ordinarily I would but he's actually been very decent and helpful working with us on this. I won't judge any person until I've met them and it's in their own interest to look good for this one. We'll be giving them no room for anything either way. We have plenty people to keep any messers in check.

If they decide to drive like divots there's very little if anything you can do about it.

shietpilot

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Also, please don't paint all of us with modified cars as poor drivers.

Here, nobody is tarring anyone with any brush. I'm a big fan of modified cars but facts are facts, modified car drivers are higher risk drivers. I'm not saying they are poor drivers. However you don't want a bunch of lads with modified cars driving around with choons on full volume blasting away, it's the wrong sort of image.

I'm hoping it will turn out great and that the number of well-behaved drivers massively outweighs the bad ones but going by the Dublin Meets trend I wouldn't be surprised if it all went to sh*te.

Kiangriffin

shietpilot wrote: »

Here, nobody is tarring anyone with any brush. I'm a big fan of modified cars but facts are facts, modified car drivers are higher risk drivers. I'm not saying they are poor drivers. However you don't want a bunch of lads with modified cars driving around with choons on full volume blasting away, it's the wrong sort of image.

I'm hoping it will turn out great and that the number of well-behaved drivers massively outweighs the bad ones but going by the Dublin Meets trend I wouldn't be surprised if it all went to sh*te.

Ah i know the Dublin meets craic doesn't help the image at all. But look, if fellas are going to be idiots when they have a chance to do some good, then there's not much we can do. I can't exclude people from this unfortunately, just have to hope for the best. I've done my bit by giving people a platform to show their anger in a respectful way, it's up to those in attendance in July to back me up.

If they don't, well that'll be a shame, but I'm just hoping for the best. I'll rest easy knowing I've done the best I can to better our lot a bit

shietpilot

Kiangriffin wrote: »

Ah i know the Dublin meets craic doesn't help the image at all. But look, if fellas are going to be idiots when they have a chance to do some good, then there's not much we can do. I can't exclude people from this unfortunately, just have to hope for the best. I've done my bit by giving people a platform to show their anger in a respectful way, it's up to those in attendance in July to back me up.

If they don't, well that'll be a shame, but I'm just hoping for the best. I'll rest easy knowing I've done the best I can to better our lot a bit

In fairness you've done a very good job so far! The Facebook group is blowing up with people saying they will come. Hopefully everyone does end up going there in the end and it will be a good turnout. I might drop down and see what the craic is anyway. Hopefully all goes well

Kiangriffin

shietpilot wrote: »

In fairness you've done a very good job so far! The Facebook group is blowing up with people saying they will come. Hopefully everyone does end up going there in the end and it will be a good turnout. I might drop down and see what the craic is anyway. Hopefully all goes well

Here's hoping, it's too far gone to stop it now anyway! lol

Autosport

Is the Carlow TD going to be there? She's all over Facebook saying she wants the Euro to look into the Irish insurance industry

DakarVert

That Dublin meets lad is involved?

I'll bring on the E39 and we go drag racing in an industrial estate. (I'll slow down at the end though, Yanoo Incase a car comes round the corner)

That gob****e is hated and I guarantee if he's there, Someone will do the bollox.

All it takes is one incident or messing and forget about it, The insurance company's will just laugh.

colm_mcm

Also having a load of cars where there will be a fair few undeclared mods protesting about insurance prices will be farcical.
Fair play for doing something, but this is not the right message to be sending.

greengone

Autosport wrote: »

Is the Carlow TD going to be there? She's all over Facebook saying she wants the Euro to look into the Irish insurance industry

Talk is cheap so one TD jumps on the bandwagon and claims whatever and next week forgets it

Next weeks issue the TD´s jumps on is drinking in public or social welfare claims thats what TD´s do ride the hot topic until a new one arrives.

Europe wont do squat about the Irish motorist getting raped on Insurance.

The EU didnt stop the Irish government raping the Irish motorists over VRT on top of basic costs of cars so Irish pay often more than 30% more for new cars .
Neither did the EU help the Danish or Portugese motorists whos governments also rape them with high VRT tax

Until the Irish people wake up the TD´s mantra is " I am alright Jack how about you " and the people will always get the shaft without lube becuase they dont know how to command thier civil servants the TD

Many think the only way you can get a TD to know your mad is to protest outside thier office and homes thier locals thier resterants wherever there is a TD skulking and do it every day possible until they have to do something about it .

That doesnt work the TDs laugh at that .

Protest is acceptance of the done deed and soon blow over when they run of steam or sponduliks to complain anymore and take the shafting without the lube

The only thing that TD´s pay attension to is hand written letters .
All civil servant fear is the hand written letter the rest protests are to be ignored .

Each letter the TD gets he/she estimates represents several hundred other people as the rest of the people are too lazy to write

The TD´S are like the bull fighter in the ring they run circles around the petrol heads who do protests and laugh all the way to the bank .:pac:

However if a TD got 1000 letters about car insurance hike issues that would mean for him7her close to 50,000 people were angry and he7she would move that to top of his/her pile of most urget issues to solve ASAP.

Think of the hand written letter as the frag grenade up the TD rear end

Protests outside his gaff or his local thats par for the course the TD can ignore that as next weeks protest about nursery care or social welfare claims will do that stunt the next week and it water off a ducks back for the TD


Also you need to have some message and solution what do we motorists want
We wannna this this and this and no paper over the cracks solutions the TD`s do

For example what do we motorists want

Do we free insurance
Do we want insurance in the fuel per liter
Do we want flat rate insurance

Do we want insurarce from a government body and remove the car insurance industry from the equation partialy or totaly

or do we just wanna shout and roar do doughnuts and then bend over and take the shafting without lube :eek:

Until there is precise logical demands the the TD`s will take us morists for another ride so bend over

Me I would opt for demand per car flat rate €150 euro flat rate third party for injuries and death insurance from a government body such as injuries board.

Then every body could take this policy put for €150 from post office or other government places like l car tax office
Then the money goes to Injuries board directly .
The insurance disk would be same put ont he window .Partail year insurance would be easily possible such as weekly insurance with some admin costs but would suit those on low incomes.
Then those who want more insurance theft fire whatever could get seperate policy from Insurance companies or fromanother government bodyset up to supply that if Insurance were unable to supply that service

The government also could allow insurance companies collect the €150 included in every policy if they want .
Then at the end of the quater year or year the Insurance industry could forward the €150 to Injuries board .

If a new Setanta came to town and tried a SCAM they would only get away with fraction of the cash and the result would not be seven years of loot collected and leaving 35 million plus claims unpaid for MIBI to collect .

Yes the damage to property could risk not to be paid but injuries and death payouts would be basicaly insured

Also it might be possible to remove or reduce the parsites like MIBI from the equation with some tweaking of the system

For me until the Car insurance protesters find some people with Brians to have real workable solutions to the problem then its bend over time no lube time yet again