Foot Bathing

Jonny303

Hi,

What kind of routine do you use for footbathing?

Do you do it routinely or only when a problem is arising?

What mix are you using?

Curious to see what people do. We have never done it as a routine but want to start

rangler1

Jonny303 wrote: »

Hi,

What kind of routine do you use for footbathing?

Do you do it routinely or only when a problem is arising?

What mix are you using?

Curious to see what people do. We have never done it as a routine but want to start

We use ZINC SULPHATE, in a 10% solution (1kg in 10 litres water), stand them in it for 5 minutes and then put them standing on a clean concrete yard for about an hour to dry in.
We footbath here anytime they're in the yard, ewes and lambs, dosing, culling, mating.
and we never pare feet

sheepfarmer92

From now on we try to do it when getting sheep in for other jobs like dosing, every few weeks, we use bluestone in a concrete footbath and plastic baths on outfarms and walk them through it, it has made a big difference to controlling lameness

Jonny303

I was told the Zinc Sulphate can cause wool to turn blue? Is this right? These are pure bred show sheep so not ideal to have a blue belly!

The old man keeps producing formaldehyde for any time we do bath, no matter how many people tell him its lethal!

Do you use sponges or just the trough?

rangler1

Jonny303 wrote: »

I was told the Zinc Sulphate can cause wool to turn blue? Is this right? These are pure bred show sheep so not ideal to have a blue belly!

The old man keeps producing formaldehyde for any time we do bath, no matter how many people tell him its lethal!

Do you use sponges or just the trough?

We used zinc sulphate on show sheep for the last 20 years and never a problem,
are you sure you're not thinking of copper sulphate.....it'd turn them blue alright
We've a big footbath here about 10ft by 12ft made of concrete

Username John

Jonny303 wrote: »

I was told the Zinc Sulphate can cause wool to turn blue? Is this right? These are pure bred show sheep so not ideal to have a blue belly!

The old man keeps producing formaldehyde for any time we do bath, no matter how many people tell him its lethal!

Do you use sponges or just the trough?

Is formalin that bad?

I still use it a bit here, but not very often. Would be outside tho, so thought that twould be ok?

orm0nd

rangler1 wrote: »

We use ZINC SULPHATE, in a 10% solution (1kg in 10 litres water), stand them in it for 5 minutes and then put them standing on a clean concrete yard for about an hour to dry in.
We footbath here anytime they're in the yard, ewes and lambs, dosing, culling, mating.
and we never pare feet

we use same mix. but I see that Brian Nicknolson recommends leaving them in it for up to 15 minutes, in our case this is not possible bar we're doing a small number,

the guy we buy off recommends using some washing up liquid in the mix.

Willfarman

Anyone stand sheep in hydrated lime? Remarkable how it dries out footrot and hardens the hoof.

farawaygrass

Willfarman wrote: »

Anyone stand sheep in hydrated lime? Remarkable how it dries out footrot and hardens the hoof.

Lime mixed with water?

Jonny303

Username John wrote: »

Is formalin that bad?

I still use it a bit here, but not very often. Would be outside tho, so thought that twould be ok?

Discussed it with someone from teagasc at Athenry last year and he nearly fell over with shock!

My OH is a beautician and it was used a lot in that industry before getting banned apparently.

Thanks for the heads up on the copper, makes more sense

Jack180570

orm0nd wrote: »

we use same mix. but I see that Brian Nicknolson recommends leaving them in it for up to 15 minutes, in our case this is not possible bar we're doing a small number,

the guy we buy off recommends using some washing up liquid in the mix.

We have just changed from bluestone to zinc sulphate.
Was talking to Brian about it and he tells me he uses the powerwasher to mix it up when making it up and also before using the 2nd or third time (as long as it is not gone too dirty).
Its supposed to be good to last for a number of sessions.

This is a good source of advice from teagasc
http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2011/1816/ControllingLamenessInSheep.pdf

Also this extract from the UK
http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/adlib/defra/content.aspx?id=000IL3890W.18B57LEVMBY9WR
Foot bathing - Choice of chemical:
Zinc sulphate is now the preferred chemical for foot bath treatments, although many farmers still use formalin. Zinc products are generally more expensive but can be re-used since they remain effective even in the presence of organic matter, unlike formalin. Zinc sulphate is also less of an irritant and does not cause hoof hardening. Zinc sulphate with a detergent additive is particularly effective because it penetrates deep into the foot.
The following regime is advised:
• Sheep should stand on a hard surface prior to foot bathing to help remove as much dirt as possible.
• Sheep should then be run through a water bath prior to foot bathing to clean the feet prior to treatment.
• Make up a 10% solution of zinc sulphate (10 kg zinc sulphate to 100 litres of water) and allow sheep to stand in for a period specified by the manufacturers datasheets or as recommended by your veterinary surgeon. Alternatively use a 3% solution of formalin and walk sheep through steadily.
• After foot bathing allow sheep to stand on a dry, clean surface for up to an hour.
• Turn out onto a fresh dry pasture, so that the foot bath chemical is not immediately washed off the feet by wet herbage. The pasture should have had no sheep for the previous 2 weeks.
• Dispose of the contents of the foot bath carefully, well away from a watercourse to avoid pollution, meeting all current regulations relating to dip disposal.
As a routine, on all lowland farms, aim to foot bath five times per year. If footrot is a serious problem much more regular foot bathing will be essential. Many farms find it necessary to foot bath once a week during an outbreak or a prolonged period of housing.
Foot bath design
Stand-in rather than walk through baths are preferable particularly when using zinc sulphate. This type of bath allows larger numbers of sheep to be foot bathed at once and also allows for the correct stand-in time. Walk through baths are only appropriate when using formalin. Sponge mats can be used and save on foot bath chemicals but recommended stand-in times must be followed.

Willfarman

farawaygrass wrote: »

Lime mixed with water?

Don't mix with any thing. Lash it out an inch thick where sheep stand around hay feeders drinking troughs that type of thing.

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

Don't mix with any thing. Lash it out an inch thick where sheep stand around hay feeders drinking troughs that type of thing.

Jack180570 wrote: »

We have just changed from bluestone to zinc sulphate.
Was talking to Brian about it and he tells me he uses the powerwasher to mix it up when making it up and also before using the 2nd or third time (as long as it is not gone too dirty).
Its supposed to be good to last for a number of sessions.

This is a good source of advice from teagasc
http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2011/1816/ControllingLamenessInSheep.pdf

Also this extract from the UK
http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/adlib/defra/content.aspx?id=000IL3890W.18B57LEVMBY9WR
Foot bathing - Choice of chemical:
Zinc sulphate is now the preferred chemical for foot bath treatments, although many farmers still use formalin. Zinc products are generally more expensive but can be re-used since they remain effective even in the presence of organic matter, unlike formalin. Zinc sulphate is also less of an irritant and does not cause hoof hardening. Zinc sulphate with a detergent additive is particularly effective because it penetrates deep into the foot.
The following regime is advised:
• Sheep should stand on a hard surface prior to foot bathing to help remove as much dirt as possible.
• Sheep should then be run through a water bath prior to foot bathing to clean the feet prior to treatment.
• Make up a 10% solution of zinc sulphate (10 kg zinc sulphate to 100 litres of water) and allow sheep to stand in for a period specified by the manufacturers datasheets or as recommended by your veterinary surgeon. Alternatively use a 3% solution of formalin and walk sheep through steadily.
• After foot bathing allow sheep to stand on a dry, clean surface for up to an hour.
• Turn out onto a fresh dry pasture, so that the foot bath chemical is not immediately washed off the feet by wet herbage. The pasture should have had no sheep for the previous 2 weeks.
• Dispose of the contents of the foot bath carefully, well away from a watercourse to avoid pollution, meeting all current regulations relating to dip disposal.
As a routine, on all lowland farms, aim to foot bath five times per year. If footrot is a serious problem much more regular foot bathing will be essential. Many farms find it necessary to foot bath once a week during an outbreak or a prolonged period of housing.
Foot bath design
Stand-in rather than walk through baths are preferable particularly when using zinc sulphate. This type of bath allows larger numbers of sheep to be foot bathed at once and also allows for the correct stand-in time. Walk through baths are only appropriate when using formalin. Sponge mats can be used and save on foot bath chemicals but recommended stand-in times must be followed.

At least zinc sulphate isn't able to corrode galvanise, copper sulphate destroys all steel
We measure the concentration using a hydrometer, calibrated it by making up a few different dilutions.
The hydrometer that works between 1.000 and 1.200g/ml works best for zinc sulphate
Water is 1.000
Cystally zinc sulphate reads 1.06 at 10% solution. 1.03 at 5%
Powderry zinc sulphate reads1.07 at 10% and 1.04 at 5%
Mix the footbath, take out a jugful and put in the hydrometer....simples
Our footbath requires 2 bags of Zinc sulphate to get 10% so we need to get value......it can work well even if very dirty, once it's near 10%

There's a few places on the'net that sell hydrometers

Green farmer

Don't really like chemicals so use surehoof here, but seldom do them. Made of organic acids and smells like strong vinegar, but don't have to worry about splashes and breaks down naturally in ground afterwards. Formalin frightens me. You could mix that stuff up and use as weed killer.

Jack180570

rangler1 wrote: »

At least zinc sulphate isn't able to corrode galvanise, copper sulphate destroys all steel
We measure the concentration using a hydrometer, calibrated it by making up a few different dilutions.
The hydrometer that works between 1.000 and 1.200g/ml works best for zinc sulphate
Water is 1.000
Cystally zinc sulphate reads 1.06 at 10% solution. 1.03 at 5%
Powderry zinc sulphate reads1.07 at 10% and 1.04 at 5%
Mix the footbath, take out a jugful and put in the hydrometer....simples
Our footbath requires 2 bags of Zinc sulphate to get 10% so we need to get value......it can work well even if very dirty, once it's near 10%

There's a few places on the'net that sell hydrometers

Damn... Im impressed Rangler

rangler1

Jack180570 wrote: »

Damn... Im impressed Rangler

Sounds over the top but sometimes we'd have maybe 200 lambs lame and the footbath had water in it and maybe not used for 3 weeks.
You'd wonder is it good enough or clean it out and pay € 80 to refill'

MIKEKC

rangler1 wrote: »

We use ZINC SULPHATE, in a 10% solution (1kg in 10 litres water), stand them in it for 5 minutes and then put them standing on a clean concrete yard for about an hour to dry in.
We footbath here anytime they're in the yard, ewes and lambs, dosing, culling, mating.
and we never pare feet

Never heard of anyone leaving them in bath for 5minutes. Most people just run them through.

rangler1

MIKEKC wrote: »

Never heard of anyone leaving them in bath for 5minutes. Most people just run them through.

That;s what;s recommended, as was said above, some leave them 15min

Jack180570

rangler1 wrote: »

Sounds over the top but sometimes we'd have maybe 200 lambs lame and the footbath had water in it and maybe not used for 3 weeks.
You'd wonder is it good enough or clean it out and pay € 80 to refill'

No, fair play to you.... its that kind of detail that means the top 1/3 of farmers are making twice or three times the profit of the bottom 1/3...

Im a bit nervous now that we have switched over to the zinc sulphate from the copper sulphate in so far as it seems that the sheep need to stand in the ZS for longer than with the CS... I might be going down the same road as yourself in building one big footbath... will wait to see how they get on first

Jack180570

MIKEKC wrote: »

Never heard of anyone leaving them in bath for 5minutes. Most people just run them through.

We used to just run them through... sometimes 3 or 4 times up and down... it wasn't worth a damn... since we changed to standing them in it lameness is gone WAY down... we now only have 5-10% of the lameness cases and we do nearly zero footparing... thats down from 100% of the ewes being footpared after lambing.
I think it is really worthwhile getting the footbathing right. Way less work and way less cost.

rangler1

Jack180570 wrote: »

No, fair play to you.... its that kind of detail that means the top 1/3 of farmers are making twice or three times the profit of the bottom 1/3...

Im a bit nervous now that we have switched over to the zinc sulphate from the copper sulphate in so far as it seems that the sheep need to stand in the ZS for longer than with the CS... I might be going down the same road as yourself in building one big footbath... will wait to see how they get on first

Much easier to get ewes and lambs into a square footbath, ewes bring in the lambs, after doing it the first few times with ewes the lambs will fly it after weaning, nightmare trying to get lambs into a race.I don't dose in the race until the lambs can't turn round in it, I dose them in a small pen when they're young.
Weighed the lambs in the scales last week, had to manhandle them all in, at least the sides are adjustable and they had to go straight out....couldn't turn

Hope you get on well with yours when you buy it

Hagimalone

Where around the midlands can you get zinc sulphate, non of the stores around me stock it, or is there place online that supply it?

rangler1

Hagimalone wrote: »

Where around the midlands can you get zinc sulphate, non of the stores around me stock it, or is there place online that supply it?

I get it from midland veterinary in tullamore/edenderry
http://www.midlandvet.ie/veterinary-offers/veterinary-offers.php

I buy most of my vet stuff from Vet Farm beside the cathedral in Mullingar, you could try there too but parking is a problem and you might have to carry it a bit

Hagimalone

rangler1 wrote:

I get it from midland veterinary in tullamore/edenderry

Never thought of vet farm, thanks

razor8

rangler1 wrote: »

Much easier to get ewes and lambs into a square footbath, ewes bring in the lambs, after doing it the first few times with ewes the lambs will fly it after weaning, nightmare trying to get lambs into a race.I don't dose in the race until the lambs can't turn round in it, I dose them in a small pen when they're young.
Weighed the lambs in the scales last week, had to manhandle them all in, at least the sides are adjustable and they had to go straight out....couldn't turn

Hope you get on well with yours when you buy it

How are lambs doing rangler compared to last year, havnt weighed mine but reckon they are well behind due to virtually no grass

Btw using zinc here and lameness issues are minimal and no bearing

rangler1

razor8 wrote: »

How are lambs doing rangler compared to last year, havnt weighed mine but reckon they are well behind due to virtually no grass

Btw using zinc here and lameness issues are minimal and no bearing

Have to say they surprised me, the ewes,fair dues to them, really milked off their backs, they are very thin.
Lambs averaged 345gms/day compared with 320 last year, but they have looked miserable up to this week.
There's still not enough grass growing considering the extra demand of the lambs now, hopefully this week will sort that.

razor8

Surprising, ewes with twins here got a lot of meal and only cut back this week, will stop now after tomorrow but will keep lambs on creep for a couple of weeks, never seen it as bad to get grass going. Depressing spring

Had lambs in last wkd for nemo and cocci dose and they looked a lot better in shed than out in field. Ewes got a bolus before lambing and I gave them a shot of cobalt and the fleeces really changed after a few days

rangler1

razor8 wrote: »

Surprising, ewes with twins here got a lot of meal and only cut back this week, will stop now after tomorrow but will keep lambs on creep for a couple of weeks, never seen it as bad to get grass going. Depressing spring

Had lambs in last wkd for nemo and cocci dose and they looked a lot better in shed than out in field. Ewes got a bolus before lambing and I gave them a shot of cobalt and the fleeces really changed after a few days

No meal here to either lambs or ewes, the lambs I dosed last saturday have really improved too,there was a lot of scoury tails before i dosed
Just after checking them for tetany, the grass has got has got a huge kick on since morning,
have you much fertilizer out, I put 1.5 cwt/acre 18 6 12 on the 10th march, it definitely was a help

razor8

Unfortunely have west facing ground here with not enough good soil in Leitrim and always a few degrees lower. hard to work with in a year like this

Ye guys down South have some excellent a farms and are the envy of us up here!!

Green farmer

[QUOTE=razor8;99652268

Ye guys down South have some excellent a farms and are the envy of us up here!![/QUOTE]



People will always find a reason to envy others. Personally I look out at my dairying and cattle neighbours and envy their access to free slurry, (some even get pig slurry ). something I'm never going to have. Still wouldn't like to be a dairy farmer though.

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

People will always find a reason to envy others. Personally I look out at my dairying and cattle neighbours and envy their access to free slurry, (some even get pig slurry ). something I'm never going to have. Still wouldn't like to be a dairy farmer though.

Looks like the grass spurt will be short lived, wind going north east again and temperatures dropping by the end of the week :mad:

Green farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

Looks like the grass spurt will be short lived, wind going north east again and temperatures dropping by the end of the week :mad:

Ah for flip sake, :rolleyes: sometimes forecast doesn't turn out as bad as they think. A week of humid weather might build up a small bit of reserves to keep us going.

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

Ah for flip sake, :rolleyes: sometimes forecast doesn't turn out as bad as they think. A week of humid weather might build up a small bit of reserves to keep us going.

Countryfile forecast tonight, they're usually accurate

Green farmer

Didn't see it this evening, but they're fairly accurate alright.

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

People will always find a reason to envy others. Personally I look out at my dairying and cattle neighbours and envy their access to free slurry, (some even get pig slurry ). something I'm never going to have. Still wouldn't like to be a dairy farmer though.

Yeah, might try to get my hands on some slurry next spring if lads are looking to get rid...
Generally tho, it's only if the weather is bad ans they're stuck is when twould be available I'd say...

Are those rain gun things for spreading slurry illegal now?

ganmo

We've use formalin in the past and it's vicious stuff but its the only job if you just want to run them through zinc and copper need time to work into the hoof

Username John

ganmo wrote: »

We've use formalin in the past and it's vicious stuff but its the only job if you just want to run them through zinc and copper need time to work into the hoof

Yeah, my facilities are rough enough. So I can only run them thought the bath.

Do that every now and then, but I'd run em through, leave em stand for a while and the run em back through again.

I think though that I have gotten rid of most of my problems through culling at this stage, which was far more effective than any footbaths to be honest...

Green farmer

Username John wrote: »

I think though that I have gotten rid of most of my problems through culling at this stage, which was far more effective than any footbaths to be honest...

Hard to argue with that. Got rid of the witches hoofs crowd here a few years ago, now only spot treat the odd one with alamycn spray when dosing. Foot bath here about once every two years.

rangler1

rangler1 wrote: »

Have to say they surprised me, the ewes,fair dues to them, really milked off their backs, they are very thin.
Lambs averaged 345gms/day compared with 320 last year, but they have looked miserable up to this week.
There's still not enough grass growing considering the extra demand of the lambs now, hopefully this week will sort that.

I got the teagasc updates in the post today, It was nice to see that my lambs are gaining 50gms/day more than Philip Creightons lambs in Athenry.......just proves my theory that old grass can come close to new reseeds in quality, if not in production.
Does the extra production pay for reseeding on a drystock farm or are we just busy fools to go that road

Wooly Admirer

rangler1 wrote: »

I got the teagasc updates in the post today, It was nice to see that my lambs are gaining 50gms/day more than Philip Creightons lambs in Athenry.......just proves my theory that old grass can come close to new reseeds in quality, if not in production.
Does the extra production pay for reseeding on a drystock farm or are we just busy fools to go that road

Which of Philips stocking rates are you comparing your lamb performance rates to out of interest?

rangler1

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

Which of Philips stocking rates are you comparing your lamb performance rates to out of interest?

He didn't put up the stocking rate, but he has double the amount of nitrogen out that I have,
We'd be at their lowest socking rate, but can't compare as they'll be taking out silage ground from now on

Green farmer

[quote="rangler1;99681327"

but can't compare as they'll be taking out silage ground from now on[/quote]

That's the part I grapple with every year in my head. The true cost of what silage drains from the land every year. Slightly off topic, but spent €13 a bale to contractor , fert costs extra and best fields out of commission for May /June when need lambs thriving to prevent Autumn mealing etc ?

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

That's the part I grapple with every year in my head. The true cost of what silage drains from the land every year. Slightly off topic, but spent €13 a bale to contractor , fert costs extra and best fields out of commission for May /June when need lambs thriving to prevent Autumn mealing etc ?

Have to admit that convenience is the only reason I do it here, hard to control grass from now on though........fragmented farm doesn't help either, i'm looking at having to move 160 ewes with their lambs in a tractor an trailer next week......too much grass one place and not enough in another

Green farmer

Wouldn't envy you that moving job. Have your earplugs at the ready rangler

sheepfarmer92

rangler1 wrote: »

I got the teagasc updates in the post today, It was nice to see that my lambs are gaining 50gms/day more than Philip Creightons lambs in Athenry.......just proves my theory that old grass can come close to new reseeds in quality, if not in production.
Does the extra production pay for reseeding on a drystock farm or are we just busy fools to go that road

That's a very good question, teagasc of course say it pays as that's whats in their bible, we never reseeded anything until 2 years ago when we stopped renting a farm, but kept up the sheep numbers on a smaller area, were stocked at just under 5 ewes per acre, and I know we couldn't manage this stocking rate without the reseeded land, getting ready to spray off another 10 acres to reseed this year, we add some rape into the mix and find this is great in finishing lambs in the backend. I think when lamb price is fairly good and your getting lambs into round 100 euro mark, the extra production probably does pay but id say in a bad year it probably doesn't!

Surfn

going to do mine with formalin in a few days time, seems like the easiest for me, i wouldnt have the best of setup so run them through it a couple of times hopefully do the job, for every 100 litres of water how much formalin do you use?

Username John

Surfn wrote: »

going to do mine with formalin in a few days time, seems like the easiest for me, i wouldnt have the best of setup so run them through it a couple of times hopefully do the job, for every 100 litres of water how much formalin do you use?

I'm in the same boat, bad facilities... So use formalin as well...
I mix it at 3%

Surfn

Username John wrote: »

I'm in the same boat, bad facilities... So use formalin as well...
I mix it at 3%

cheers , i read somewhere to mix it at 10 or 15%. maybe that was for cattle though.

ganmo

rangler1 wrote: »

I got the teagasc updates in the post today, It was nice to see that my lambs are gaining 50gms/day more than Philip Creightons lambs in Athenry.......just proves my theory that old grass can come close to new reseeds in quality, if not in production.
Does the extra production pay for reseeding on a drystock farm or are we just busy fools to go that road

I was walking through some of the fields last night and the grass is starting to head out already! thats where I would benefit from reseeding but as you say will it pay

Surfn

can i use formaldehyde solution 35/10%, thats what it says on container, is that much the same as formalin

RobinBanks

Hi. I have bought a few plastic footbaths, I can get sponge to fit and wondered would it be a good/bad idea to use the sponge. so same it is easier run sheep through the bath because the sponge hides the water? I was wondering how effective the bath would be with sponge though. would it trap the zinc sulphate?