Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

raze_them_all_

Keep Smalling starting, he is quality, what he needs is a vidic like Central defender beside him thats not made of glass aka phil jones

raze_them_all_

brinty wrote: »

Fair point Maximus but it was three huge mistakes. I don't buy the he's our best defender thing which a lot of people trot out.

For me I don't think he's a first choice centre back in a team looking to win leagues and champions leagues. He's third choice at best. I alos don't think Jose would be a huge fan of his. This is of course my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs too.

My main point would be though, should we not try and improve everywhere we can if the right players become available and want to join the club. If for example if Varane and Stones/ Laporte are available (who are better than Smalling IMO) should we only buy one of them and keep playing Smalling..

Did you watch stones this year? Id say chelsea are delighted they didnt pay the 40 million, Real already turned us down for Varne

astrofool

Good to see a new manager in early, rather than mid-late summer again, actually gives time for proper planning to be put in place (and hopefully not start the season with 3CB again...)

Liam O

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Keep Smalling starting, he is quality, what he needs is a vidic like Central defender beside him thats not made of glass aka phil jones

Smalling is more like Vidic than Ferdinand.

brinty

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Did you watch stones this year? Id say chelsea are delighted they didnt pay the 40 million, Real already turned us down for Varne

Raze I did say if the right players are available and want to come to the club

Yes smalling might have had a better season than Stones (I'm not disputing that) but I would say Stones has a higher ceiling than Smalling

The fact Jose wanted him last summer highlights he's a very likely target this summer..

bangkok

brinty wrote: »

Raze I did say if the right players are available and want to come to the club

Yes smalling might have had a better season than Stones (I'm not disputing that) but I would say Stones has a higher ceiling than Smalling

The fact Jose wanted him last summer highlights he's a very likely target this summer..

yes his ceiling is very high :P

akelly02

bangkok wrote: »

Fergie rated him as the best central midfielder in England.

He was one of the first names van Gaal mentioned when he took over

now Mourinho, thinks he is good enough for another year contract.

you dont last 10 years playing central midfield for man utd without being a class player

he was good in the cup final the other week wasnt he?

raze_them_all_

brinty wrote: »

Raze I did say if the right players are available and want to come to the club

Yes smalling might have had a better season than Stones (I'm not disputing that) but I would say Stones has a higher ceiling than Smalling

The fact Jose wanted him last summer highlights he's a very likely target this summer..

Tbh I am sick of this ceiling and potential stuff tbh, I see it in amaerican football all the time, LAds can have this potential and never realise it, look at that Ravel Morrison chap, was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, had all the ability and potential in the world.


Give me proven performers I'd say, potential can lick me ballbag at this stage

jayo26

Not one center back in world football goes threw a season without mistakes. Ramos allbeit scores some important goals too has an unreal record for red cards and is often prone to a blunder, hummels consistently get caught out of position in my opinion he is as bad as blind, stones i dont need to mention he is a liability at times too and varane is still learning too of all the center back in football id say godin is the most consistent and solid along with silva but lets face it he dont get tested enough.

Blind is not natural cb but he is far from been mediocre and for 75k a week he is unreal value when you think psg spent 50 million or something on luiz and never mind his wages.

If blind is moved to cdm id love to see him get a fair chance and then judge him.

Peist2007

jayo26 wrote: »

Blind is not natural cb but he is far from been mediocre and for 75k a week he is unreal value when you think psg spent 50 million or something on luiz and never mind his wages.

You can make any player seem like good value when you cite it alongside the most stupid high profile transfer ever in european football. Why not compare Blind's wages to Kante's instead?

Mitch Connor

Peist2007 wrote: »

Have seen Blind play for United in the flesh a few times and have been unimpressed each time. He is reluctant to put his head in, doesnt drive the team on from centre half or defensive mid, doesnt have the pace to play full back. Isnt half the player his father was. Gives off the air that, when it comes down to it, he's there for the cheque only.

Mourinho knows a good defensive midfielder and i think it is no coincidence that he might want Blind gone.

Surprised to see he has some fans on here as i always thought Blind epitomises United's general listlessness over the past 18 months/2 years.

I agree re. Pace and strength issues, but i simply think saying his heart isnt in it is a disgraceful thing to accuse him of. Not good enough, arguable. Not trying? No chance imo. He'd be one of the players more committed than others, imo.

Flint Fredstone

Schweinsteiger made the Euros squad anyway.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Schweinsteiger made the Euros squad anyway.

Not that surprised. He's still captain (Open to correction)

What I am surprised about is that Rues has not been included

Backstreet Moyes

So sell our best cb because he made a few mistakes at the end of a long season.

Spend 40 million on a player who made more mistakes in the 5 Everton games I seen this season than smallings 55 games.

But he has a higher ceiling so we should sign him.

We want to win the league but smalling is not enough for a side looking to win it.

So smalling is not good enough, he is better than Stone's but Stone's might turn into a better defender in the future.

So spend 40 on Stone's to replace smalling even though smalling is better but smalling is not good enough.

So spend a big amount of the budget to weaken the team in the hope in a few years Stone's will have hit that ceiling

Is that it

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

So sell our best cb because he made a few mistakes at the end of a long season.

Spend 40 million on a player who made more mistakes in the 5 Everton games I seen this season than smallings 55 games.

But he has a higher ceiling so we should sign him.

We want to win the league but smalling is not enough for a side looking to win it.

So smalling is not good enough, he is better than Stone's but Stone's might turn into a better defender in the future.

So spend 40 on Stone's to replace smalling even though smalling is better but smalling is not good enough.

So spend a big amount of the budget to weaken the team in the hope in a few years Stone's will have hit that ceiling

Is that it

Sorry, is someone seriously saying sell smalling??

Jayop

There's few things more completely pointless than fans on forums discussing the relative ceilings of players. It's desperate Bulls hit.

jayo26

Peist2007 wrote: »

You can make any player seem like good value when you cite it alongside the most stupid high profile transfer ever in european football. Why not compare Blind's wages to Kante's instead?

I didnt mean it as a way of making him seem better value but i see how it came across like that but eitherway yes kante is on alot less but you can be guaranteed the next contract kante signs will be double what blind is getting at least.

My point is blind is not doing any harm in the squad he aint a big financial outlay as someone like bastian is and he has a lot more to offer then bqstian in every way and he aint the bad player that you made him out to be and he has come across as a proper professional.

bangkok

akelly02 wrote: »

he was good in the cup final the other week wasnt he?

yea played well

TheDoc

Pheonix10 wrote: »

His record stands for itself, no one gets anywhere near club record goalscorer without being a hugely talented footballer.

You can choose to respect it or not - I do.

People can get to extreme in football, its always one end or the other, one extreme to the opposite.

I recognise Rooney is a a very good footballer, that doesn't mean you can't have some negative opinions on him. Ferguson was one of the greatest managers of all time, I've still got various beefs with him.

Robbie Keane is our countries leading goalscorer, and I don't rate him as an excellent player.

Rooney is an excellent player, and has been at the club for what, 12 seasons? Obviously an exceptionally talented player to remain at a top team for that duration and return what he has, but there is plenty of other strikers who if they had of being at the club 12 years would have smashed that record. We were lucky in a sense we got Rooney so young. Martial or Rashford could go on to beat that record, tall order, but of course possible.

Of the 12 or so seasons Rooney has been at the club, only about two I can remember where he was the best striker in the team.

So of course I respect his record and return, but I also appreciate that there is multifaceted criteria and explanations to everything and anything, and pointing to a goal record is not an all encompassing equation to the quality of a player.

Mitch Connor

Jayop wrote: »

There's few things more completely pointless than fans on forums discussing the relative ceilings of players. It's desperate Bulls hit.

Ah would ye ever f off with such crap. Could apply the sane argument to basically anything we would discuss on here. If you don't like speculative discussions maybe discussion forums arent for you.

Jayop

Are people thinking that blind isn't paid highly at 75k? He's likely among the thirty or forty top paid players in England at that. They're not all on 250k a week lads.

Jayop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ah would ye ever f off with such crap. Could apply the sane argument to basically anything we would discuss on here. If you don't like speculative discussions maybe discussion forums arent for you.

I'm all for speculation but the certainty that people seem to have attached to this ceiling nonsense is something I've not seen before. It really is pick an opinion, repeat it with absolute conviction knowing you can't really be challenged on it. That's the crap.

Julez

Jayop wrote: »

Are people thinking that blind isn't paid highly at 75k? He's likely among the thirty or forty top paid players in England at that. They're not all on 250k a week lads.

Would make more sense to compare his pay with other players in our squad rather than in the league. Man Utd make more money and therefore have to pay more.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not that surprised. He's still captain (Open to correction)

What I am surprised about is that Rues has not been included

Reus out was taken because "he has huge health problems and can only run straight at the moment".

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Fergie rated him as the best central midfielder in England.

He was one of the first names van Gaal mentioned when he took over

now Mourinho, thinks he is good enough for another year contract.

you dont last 10 years playing central midfield for man utd without being a class player

Again I won't push my view as a right/wrong context, but I will just outline some points and retorts, as maybe it might outline where I come from on my minority stance.

Although hopefully appreciated with me being forthright in my admission of bias, it doesn't spark a Nani style debacle This isn't aimed at you either, just going to take your points.

Fergie rated him as the best central midfielder in England.

He also said Phil Jones could be our best ever player. Along with a raft of other daft ****. Ferguson was a manager, a human. He made mistakes. He isn't all infallible. I can disagree with Alex Ferguson and not be slated for it. Carrick was never the best CM in England, and for sporadic portions of time was probably the best "English" CM.

He was one of the first names van Gaal mentioned when he took over

Carrick is an intelligent footballer. He also has what I consider an inflated reputation(its nowhere near as underappreciated as people would make out)where most pundits, commentators and players mention him in good light. Van Gaal mentioned he is a good reader of the game, which he is, and that he could imprint his vision and philosophy on the pitch. If Van Gaal was so certain on that, I doubt he would have bought Schweinsteiger. Carrick was unreliable in Van Gaals first season with injury and generally poor performances.

The fact there was no contract renewal coming from Van Gaal, is probably indicated LVG figured he was finished.

now Mourinho, thinks he is good enough for another year contract.

I guess I will believe it when I see it. Just speculation at this point, you'd imagine Carrick getting a one year extension would be easy to do, certainly easier and quicker to do then Rashford or CBJ, considering he has no international duty.

Always lingers that on the big interview with Graham Hunter he outlined his desire to play in Spain while still having a resemblance of power. Wouldn't surprise me to see him go there. Valencia he mentioned in specific numerous times.

I don't know Mourinho's opinion or indication on Carrick. He operates like a cult and needs players to buy into it 100%. Maybe Carrick has outlined he will, but I doubt he sees Carrick as part of a team he wants to build. Mourinho teams always have a strong, dynamic midfield, Carrick is not part of that mould and what I would expect a Mourinho midfield to posses.

you dont last 10 years playing central midfield for man utd without being a class player

I think Carrick was part of a greater construction. I'd never consider him class, but can appreciate he is a good player. But I also have felt he was providing his worth when part of a more dynamic/mobile and creative midfield. I think when people have looked to him for leadership or to provide injection, he has been utterly lacking in every department. It's been abundantly clear to me that since Scholes retired and the onus shifted to Carrick he has failed to manage that entirely. Obviously no small feat, but considering how many pundits, players etc wax lyrical about him, I'd expect more.

I think it's just a little englishman mentality that pundits and commentators and journalists writing opinion pieces continue to label him the clubs best midfielder or some important cog in the first team. He has been anything but, and annoys me greatly at the easy ride he generally gets compared to a Fellaini,Hererra or Schneiderlan.

Also worth remembering Anderson was with the club for like, 8 years. So yeah, you can be at a big club, for a longtime, while not being a "class" player.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I agree re. Pace and strength issues, but i simply think saying his heart isnt in it is a disgraceful thing to accuse him of. Not good enough, arguable. Not trying? No chance imo. He'd be one of the players more committed than others, imo.

Agreed. I think its ridiculous to insinuate, and it's only insinuation, that Blinds heart is not in it.

This was the Erdevise player of the year, a highly regarded, emerging defensive midfielder. Shifts to LB for this national team to accommodate Strootman when he surged onto the scene and then moves to one of the "biggest" clubs in the world.

In his second season, after having a seriously rough introduction due to mental tactics from the manager, he is tasked with playing centre back, partnering what was at the time a totally unreliable defender, in a league where most strikers are either lightning quick or big and powerful.

Apart from some mistakes here and there (which is fine, hello, this is a midfielder asked to play CB for the first time, for a big club, in a tough league) he has acquitted himself BRILLIANTLY this season. And why I said I wouldn't be surprised if he got a players player of the year nod. He has been fantastic. You can he his organisational and communication skills on the pitch and he is so cool and calm it's scary. How many times this season did a situation arise where he is 1v1 and your like "****KK" and he just knicks the ball cleanly, meanders out and then lets off a nice pass.

Very few players can emerge from the Van Gaal era being somewhat happy and proud of their performances and effort, Blind is undoubtedly one of them. I also think that if he is kept(madness to sell) he will probably get a rough time under Mourinho, but I'd back him 100% to come through and re-establish himself in the first team.

Peist2007

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I agree re. Pace and strength issues, but i simply think saying his heart isnt in it is a disgraceful thing to accuse him of. Not good enough, arguable. Not trying? No chance imo. He'd be one of the players more committed than others, imo.

Not good enough and not enough heart. Never said he was the least committed. Can you remember a spell during his time at United so far where Daley Blind was the driving force? Or even that noticeable?

It seems he's being praised for not being crap.

TheDoc

Peist2007 wrote: »

Not good enough and not enough heart. Never said he was the least committed. Can you remember a spell during his time at United so far where Daley Blind was the driving force? Or even that noticeable?

It seems he's being praised for not being crap.

Did he not just finish as one half of the best defence in the Premier League? (one half, since full backs constantly switched)

Thats pretty noticeable to be honest. Blind is never going to be Messi, but you can appreciate good, reliable, hard working players.

I feel his reputation has grown, and rightly so. Look at some of our so called "brilliant" players that have been at the club the last three years and their stock has just fallen beyond belief with terrible performances and or commitment.

He is being praised for being slotted in at CB, from being a midfielder with no previous experience and for the most part being imperious for the season. And being a big part of fixing what was a god awful defence last season.

Its ok to praise people who arn't "world class"

Peist2007

TheDoc wrote: »

Did he not just finish as one half of the best defence in the Premier League? (one half, since full backs constantly switched)

Thats pretty noticeable to be honest. Blind is never going to be Messi, but you can appreciate good, reliable, hard working players.

I feel his reputation has grown, and rightly so. Look at some of our so called "brilliant" players that have been at the club the last three years and their stock has just fallen beyond belief with terrible performances and or commitment.

He is being praised for being slotted in at CB, from being a midfielder with no previous experience and for the most part being imperious for the season. And being a big part of fixing what was a god awful defence last season.

Its ok to praise people who arn't "world class"

I never said it wasnt ok to praise people who arent world class?

Kerrydude1981

Be madness to sell Blind,he is a player every squad needs,

TheDoc

Peist2007 wrote: »

I never said it wasnt ok to praise people who arent world class?

Doesnt matter you didnt say it, I'm just telling you.

Your post is querying why Blind is being talked about positively when he, in your view, has had little impact on the team or been a driving force.

Granted if you don't feel Blind warrants praise thats fine, I'd question what your expectations are of him as a player, but I don't think forming part of the best defence in the league is something to be sniffed at.

Cypher_sounds

brinty wrote: »

Daley is not leaving..
Sky are talking out there rear end
He's too useful to get shot of
Watch Barca or someone come in for him and he becomes a worldie.. no thanks,
I'd much rather we keep him and sell those clowns Mike Smalling or Phillip Jones..

Ah now Smalling is no clown. Jones on the other hand..well this video last year didn't help his cause..

Peist2007

TheDoc wrote: »

Doesnt matter you didnt say it, I'm just telling you.

Your post is querying why Blind is being talked about positively when he, in your view, has had little impact on the team or been a driving force.

Granted if you don't feel Blind warrants praise thats fine, I'd question what your expectations are of him as a player, but I don't think forming part of the best defence in the league is something to be sniffed at.

Again, i suggest you read my posts. I never asked why he was being talked about positively. At all.

TheDoc

Peist2007 wrote: »

Have seen Blind play for United in the flesh a few times and have been unimpressed each time. He is reluctant to put his head in, doesnt drive the team on from centre half or defensive mid, doesnt have the pace to play full back. Isnt half the player his father was. Gives off the air that, when it comes down to it, he's there for the cheque only.

Mourinho knows a good defensive midfielder and i think it is no coincidence that he might want Blind gone.

Surprised to see he has some fans on here as i always thought Blind epitomises United's general listlessness over the past 18 months/2 years.

I've read your posts, I've highlight at the end there where you've mentioned surprise that he has fans. I can extrapolate from that your confusion/surprise that people would speak about him positively. IF your going to play that game of "read my posts again i didnt say" of something you literally typed less then an hour ago, you need to be less ambiguous, the problem is not my reading.


And then separately, I've highlighted where you mention he gives the air that he is only in it for the cheque, which is total bull****. So if your peddling that sort of makey up nonsense, I'd like to try avoid reading your posts more then once if I can avoid it.

Don't mean to be crass, but that is just an outrageous comment to make based on what we can only garnish is something you have taken from absolutely nowhere.

akelly02

bangkok wrote: »

yea played well

was that a serious comment?

He was attrocious.

bmcc10

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ah now Smalling is no clown. Jones on the other hand..well this video last year didn't help his cause..

Whats wrong with this video mate? Mate?

IamtheWalrus

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ah now Smalling is no clown. Jones on the other hand..well this video last year didn't help his cause..

Smalling comes across a humble auld cub.

Korat

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ah now Smalling is no clown. Jones on the other hand..well this video last year didn't help his cause..

It doesn't come as a complete surprise that Phil Jones isn't all that aware of what goes on around him and sometimes doesn't even understand what's being asked of him.

Smalling comes across as a reasonably bright fellow. Being intelligent doesn't necessarily make you a good footballer but I always feel smart players can better compensate for any skill deficiency.

Hococop

Rashford made the euro squad

bangkok

akelly02 wrote: »

was that a serious comment?

He was attrocious.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/football/36317284

bbc player ratings he was given a 7

solid

played full game as well including extra time

bangkok

Rashford, from no where to Euro 2016 squad in a few months. Roy of the rovers stuff

akelly02

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/football/36317284

bbc player ratings he was given a 7

solid

played full game as well including extra time

didnt mention two howlers giving the ball away in his own half putting us under extreme pressure.

This is pointless, if Carrick took a sh1t on Mother Teresa's head you would still defend him so ill leave it there.

jayo26

Delighted for rashford hopefully he gets a chance to shine and if not it be a great experience for him

Michael D Not Higgins

Hococop wrote: »

Rashford made the euro squad

Mixed feelings on this. It's good he's getting noticed, but hopefully there isn't too much weight put on him. We've all seen young English players get too much responsibility and focus of the media on their performances internationally can be particularly brutal.

Hopefully he's played as an impact sub rather than being made a scapegoat for an overall bad performance if he's given a start.

bangkok

akelly02 wrote: »

didnt mention two howlers giving the ball away in his own half putting us under extreme pressure.

This is pointless, if Carrick took a sh1t on Mother Teresa's head you would still defend him so ill leave it there.

i will defend a player if comments are ridiculous.

You said he was "atrocious". He had a good game, if he was as bad as you say he was he would have been taken off

Hococop

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Mixed feelings on this. It's good he's getting noticed, but hopefully there isn't too much weight put on him. We've all seen young English players get too much responsibility and focus of the media on their performances internationally can be particularly brutal.

Hopefully he's played as an impact sub rather than being made a scapegoat for an overall bad performance if he's given a start.

He won't start over Kane or vardy, I can see he coming on for the last 5 minutes of games

Backstreet Moyes

bangkok wrote: »

i will defend a player if comments are ridiculous.

You said he was "atrocious". He had a good game, if he was as bad as you say he was he would have been taken off

Iv never seen a person so blind or stubborn on the forum.

You disappear when Fellaini has a good game and when he has a decent game you go hyperbole about how bad he was.

Yet when it comes to Carrick you excuse every bad performance and come out with gems like today that he was our best midfielder last year.

You have no right to call anyone else's comments ridicolous when yours are worse.

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

Iv never seen a person so blind or stubborn on the forum.

You disappear when Fellaini has a good game and when he has a decent game you go hyperbole about how bad he was.

Yet when it comes to Carrick you excuse every bad performance and come out with gems like today that he was our best midfielder last year.

You have no right to call anyone else's comments ridicolous when yours are worse.

show me a worse comment that the above?

here is another from same poster..

"Schneiderlin would walk quicker than Carrick would run"

mewe

bangkok wrote:

Rashford, from no where to Euro 2016 squad in a few months. Woy of the wovers stuff

Fyp 😉

Jayop

Even if he's the player of the tournament it's still a problem. Remember Rooney had a great first tourney with England and has never replicated it putting more and more pressure on him.