Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

CSF

CSF wrote: »

He was good, but not in the same league. Not elite, he had promise that he has yet to fulfill. If he does that and Kante drops off, then the situation changes. But that's not where we're at right now.

Who provides these "Elite" ratings?

v3ttel

I would expect Schneiderlin to be the type of player that Jose can get the best out of. He was very, very good for Southampton for a number of years, before he joined us.

Why spend £25m+ on Matic (terrible last season) or Kante (one fantastic season). Who knows if he or any of the Leicester players can hit those heights again?

Lovely Bloke

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Who provides these "Elite" ratings?

the people having the discussion

look, it's as plain as day that Schneiderlein never has as good a season as Kante just had.

Not for United, and not for Southampton

Flint Fredstone

CSF wrote: »

Not exactly, if we were discussing against a player who previously was just as good, for longer, then I think it's a sensible argument. But we're not, we are talking about that someone who was never that good and is even worse in the 'right now'.

The fact that you're using the Euro squad thing tells me you're only about the "right now"
Schneiderlin wouldn't be the first player to lose out on a squad place on the back of an abysmal club campaign and Kante wouldn't be the first to get a call up on the back of a good one.
Also, Schneiderlin has over 3 times the international caps of Kante who only got his first ever full international cap 3 months ago.

CSF

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In your opinion

And the opinion of voters of the various awards that have taken place over the course of time when both players have played in the Premier League, but sure look...

bucketybuck

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

the people having the discussion

look, it's as plain as day that Schneiderlein never has as good a season as Kante just had.

Not for United, and not for Southampton

Was Kante as good as Matic was the year before? The same Matic people are now sour on because his form dropped?

But hey, Kante had a great season. So lets drop the previous winner of the "had a great season in midfield" trophy in favour of him. Of course we will then have to drop Kante for whoever wins next years "great season in midfield" trophy, I wonder who it will be?

CSF

CSF wrote: »

And the opinion of voters of the various awards that have taken place over the course of time when both players have played in the Premier League, but sure look...

I'm so happy for you and the fellow voters share this opinion.

Again, to my original point, buying one-season Kante to replace Schniedrlan would be a bad move.
If Jose is the manager people say he is I have faith in him to get the best out of Morgan again and yes I think he's a better player than Kante with more experience to boot.
Both have potential and both are only in mid-twenties. We will see how next season all pans out.

Mitch Connor

If you were looking to buy one of the three right now, it would be Kante.

Given we already have one of the three, and have other positions and roles to improve, I wouldn't be mad on buying either Kante or Matic right now. Maybe Schneiderlin fooled most people, and he is actual rubbish, or maybe he had a bad season and can recover from it. I'd be more than happy for Jose to look at players for other roles and see what he can do with Schneiderlin this season - and then make a decision next summer if needs be. I'm sure there will be some other combative midfielder that everyone must buy next season too.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/LeeClayton_/status/740165562760859653

Michael D Not Higgins

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If you were looking to buy one of the three right now, it would be Kante.

Given we already have one of the three, and have other positions and roles to improve, I wouldn't be mad on buying either Kante or Matic right now. Maybe Schneiderlin fooled most people, and he is actual rubbish, or maybe he had a bad season and can recover from it. I'd be more than happy for Jose to look at players for other roles and see what he can do with Schneiderlin this season - and then make a decision next summer if needs be. I'm sure there will be some other combative midfielder that everyone must buy next season too.

This is the important thing. We need to get our attack sorted, we had the best defense in the league last year. A lot of that came down to De Gea but not all. Scoring goals is what kept us out of top 4, not whether we had Kante or Schneiderlin.

Mitch Connor

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

This is the important thing. We need to get our attack sorted, we had the best defense in the league last year. A lot of that came down to De Gea but not all. Scoring goals is what kept us out of top 4, not whether we had Kante or Schneiderlin.

I think part of improving the attack will weaken the defense. Part of the reason, imo, for the good record, was down to be so damned conservative and defensive in setup (and luck). all the defense was a problem last season too, imo.

Would give Darmian another go at right back, Shaw at left back should hopefully sort that side (feck off El Confidential!) and maybe Baily and Smalling will give a better footing.

hufpc8w3adnk65

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LeeClayton_/status/740165562760859653

Is he not with the National team?

Mitch Connor

MrMac84 wrote: »

Is he not with the National team?

He wasn't with them last game, next game is september.

bangkok

Jose has turned up unexpectedly to court case today

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Jose has turned up unexpectedly to court case today

He was due a defense anyway, but you may be right in saying not sure if it was supposed to be today.
Alot of stuff on twitter about what he did and didn't say.

Nalz

I've only seen Bailly twice and some youtube clips. Seems strong, good posiitonal sense and nice touch. What's he like in the air and is he fast?

bangkok

Nalz wrote: »

I've only seen Bailly twice and some youtube clips. Seems strong, good posiitonal sense and nice touch. What's he like in the air and is he fast?

He has a twin-engine, all-weather stealth tactical fighter aircraft with Maximum speed without external stores is estimated to be Mach 1.82 during supercruise and greater than Mach 2 with afterburners..

Mitch Connor

From what I have read about Baily, i'm expecting to be amazing and exasperated in equal measure. Does seem highly rated and has all the physical attributes you could ask for, but young, raw, rash - I would imagine he could be a player to get caught leaving space behind as he rushes out to attack the ball.

I could be completely wrong, given I know basically nothing about him. just a feeling based on some youtube and some reading.

RobertKK

bangkok wrote: »

Jose has turned up unexpectedly to court case today

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He was due a defense anyway, but you may be right in saying not sure if it was supposed to be today.
Alot of stuff on twitter about what he did and didn't say.

What is amusing is both sides will have an expert in cursing in the Portuguese language at the trial, I think it is whether Mourinho said son of a bitch or daughter of a whore or something like that in Portuguese.

Have to say Chelsea painted a rather unflattering picture of Carneiro. That she did everything to get media attention, like positioning herself when others were giving interviews so she would be on TV, even when it came to players on the pitch which is where all the controversy blew up.

IamtheWalrus

Is ibra manchester player yet

TheDoc

CSF wrote: »

You can play one season at the top level and be excellent. 38 games is a long stretch of time.

Calling Kante better after one season makes perfect sense given that Schneiderlin was never as good as Kante was last season, not at Southampton, not at United. Not even close. Kante was the best player in his position by a distance last season, possibly the best in the league, rivalled only by another guy who has only had one good season who therefore probably isn't as good as Depay or Mata or someone based on the same flawed logic.

Well that is actually your opinion.

A lot of other opinion had Schneiderlan as one, if not the best, CM in the league for two seasons. There was a large amount of articles and commentary on him two seasons ago, where Matic was receiving tons of plaudits, and a lot of people questioning why Schneiderlan was being so easily ignored by the mainstream media.

Kante had an exceptional season. But part of the Leicester "fairytale", was in large part to a lot of players having absolutely wonderful seasons, all at once. It's not hard to understand or comprehend. It was the perfect storm.

I won't be surprised in the slightest if none of the famed Leicester players fail to recapture last seasons form. And that is fine. Every so often you have the one season wonders, they just happened to have loads at the same time.

Obviously simplifying matters WAY too much, but I'd be more comfortable with Schneiderlan longer term. He was exceptional for two seasons, has performed well for France internationally and not unlike Kante, came up through lower leagues so has genuine hunger and appreciation for what he is doing.

The issue I have with Vardy,Mahrez,Kante etc. is that too many people get fixated on what they just did, and not what they can continue to do. I would not be 100% convinced on signing any of the major Leicester players. That is not me trying to be loof or anti-bandwagon about it, just a genuine concern that I'm unsure a lot of those players will scale the same heights again.

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Is ibra manchester player yet

No.

Don't think anything apart from a new clothing range will happen today. the big tease. Hopefully it is announced soon, either United or not, just so it is freaking over.

TheDoc

zerks wrote: »

Remember when Schneiderlin joined us? 100% pass completion,creating chances,getting in the box and scoring.LVG and his "philosophy" coached all that was good about him out of his play and turned him into a shadow of the player we signed.He wanted robots and not instinctive footballers.

F365 are clearly massive Morgan fans. Massive. They were some of the first championing him with Southampton and were totally perplexed as teams failed to sign him window after window.

It was beyond baffling why he was being dropped so frequently, but I'm genuinelly looking forward to seeing him under Mourinho. I also question the validity of the Matic links. Southampton Schneiderlan was just as good imo, and was more dynamic

TheDoc

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Remember Amir Zaki was the best striker in the league? Or Michu?

I was literally just about to post about Zaki. By some logic here, people would be equating him better then Henry, Van Persie, Bergkamp, Rooney and the list goes on.

Silly stuff.

No denying the great form and season players like Kante had, but **** even stepping up to a big club can break many a player, as we have seen with Memphis for example. A player I'd consider far superior to Mahrez.

Our problem is just getting these players ticking, and ticking quickly this season.

Lovely Bloke

what's all this "In your opinion" or "well, that's your opinion"

it's hardly anyone elses? the very nature of these boards is that people put their opinions out there, why is it re-iterated so often?

Mitch Connor

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

what's all this "In your opinion" or "well, that's your opinion"

it's hardly anyone elses? the very nature of these boards is that people put their opinions out there, why is it re-iterated so often?

Because a lot of people have a habit of stating/phrasing their opinion as fact.

Nalz

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

it's hardly anyone elses? the very nature of these boards is that people put their opinions out there

well that's your opinion

:pac:

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

F365 are clearly massive Morgan fans. Massive. They were some of the first championing him with Southampton and were totally perplexed as teams failed to sign him window after window.

It was beyond baffling why he was being dropped so frequently, but I'm genuinelly looking forward to seeing him under Mourinho. I also question the validity of the Matic links. Southampton Schneiderlan was just as good imo, and was more dynamic

I did before them.

Lovely Bloke

TheDoc wrote: »

I was literally just about to post about Zaki. By some logic here, people would be equating him better then Henry, Van Persie, Bergkamp, Rooney and the list goes on.

Silly stuff.

This is such bullshít.

The comparison is Kante/Schneiderlein

Schneiderlein never had a season comparable to Rooney, VP, Henry.

Kante has just had a "the best player in the EPL" season.

Zaki had a few months.

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

the people having the discussion

look, it's as plain as day that Schneiderlein never has as good a season as Kante just had.

Not for United, and not for Southampton

Again your just basing this of nothing but your opinion.

I'd argue that Morgan has played for Southampton as good as Kante. Morgan just didn't have a load of other players operating at top form to give Southampton a real charge.

Least not forget they had some heady periods around the top 4 since their arrival back in the PL.

It can be tough to defend a player who has had a tough run of things, similar to the effort I make with Memphis. I'll just hope Mourinho can get things firing and then this time next year be like "wasn't it gas when you thought Kante was better then Morgan".

Voidless point from me if the players don't sort their **** out. But see no point in Matic or Kante, when we have Schneiderlin, or Mahrez when we have Memphis.

RobertKK

Eric Bailly has a nice back story.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchester-united/360/blog/post/2887371/eric-bailly-has-the-talent-and-ability-to-reach-the-top-with-manchester-united

He was discovered in the Ivory Coast as a 15 year year old and had to leave his family to pursue his career. His former manager at Espanyol says he could only play friendlies as he had no papers to play professional games.
So he made his La Liga debut in 2014, but only started his first professional game in January 2015, one which was against Villareal.
He had only played 5 or 6 La Liga games when Villareal came in and bought him.
He impressed to the point that Barcelona considered buying him.

Marquez, the manager of Espanyol says his daughter had a picture taken with Bailly, and he told her to keep that photo as he is going to be famous.

Looking forward to see him play, presuming we do buy him.

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

what's all this "In your opinion" or "well, that's your opinion"

it's hardly anyone elses? the very nature of these boards is that people put their opinions out there, why is it re-iterated so often?

The tone from your posts, and the other posters, reads to me like your portraying it as factual, rather then your opinion.

Will hold my hands up if that's not intentional

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

It makes out like you and another poster are portraying it as fact.

Was just going to reply with the same but you nailed it

bangkok

Zaki didnt even play a full season iirc.

These Leicester players have proved their worth, they are league champions.

Vardy is 29, he will probably never had a season like he just had.


Mahrez is a class act but its up to him if he wants to perform like he did last season as he def has the skill to do so

Lovely Bloke

TheDoc wrote: »

The tone from your posts, and the other posters, reads to me like your portraying it as factual, rather then your opinion.

Will hold my hands up if that's not intentional

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Was just going to reply with the same but you nailed it

and neither of your posts do that? or anyone else on here?

if you just take it as read that everyone is presenting their opinion then you'll have a better time on here.

Does it not get tiresome typing "yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, maaaannnn" all the time?

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

This is such bullshít.

The comparison is Kante/Schneiderlein

Schneiderlein never had a season comparable to Rooney, VP, Henry.

Kante has just had a "the best player in the EPL" season.

Zaki had a few months.

And I guess our counter argument is that you could have plugged Morgan from Southampton, dropped into that Leicester team, and most likely same praise?

Schneiderlin was impervious for Southampton. He had over 200 appearances including their promotion. Was a key figure for the team that every so often was sitting around the top 4, in some instances 1st and 2nd. He was excellent, really ****ing good. If Southampton had loads of their team being outrageous and playing to the peak of their powers, and they won the league, Schneiderlin would have been their Kante.


Look Leicester were the story of the season and were everywhere. Everyone was talking about them, constantly on TV. Kante was just the non stop story. Not constantly though btw, worth pointing out many were fixated on Vardy, and Kante didn't become the regular "key" player until a bit in, as people tried to work out what the hell was happening.

I don't want to assume you didn't watch much of Southampton. I didn't at the start either, but then I guess I started to watch a bit more, and Schneiderlin CONSTANTLY stood out time after time.

Actually, as a matter of interest. Do you rate Vardy as a better striker/player than Rooney?

This isn't to spark a row, but will likely help flesh out the views on both sides.

TheDoc

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

and neither of your posts do that? or anyone else on here?

if you just take it as read that everyone is presenting their opinion then you'll have a better time on here.

Does it not get tiresome typing "yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, maaaannnn" all the time?

Kudos on the reference

At times when two conflicting view points collide, especially on this thread, sometimes the opinion part can get lost when a poster can post in a manner that makes it out like "This is fact, you cannot debate against this".

I guess its sometimes why I go to lengths to outline what is my opinion as opposed to "general consensus". And I'm not claiming you to be ignorant or difficult, just sometimes when the tone shifts it can be hard to keep things civil or constructive. Through no ones actually intention.

I witness this most with Nani, a debate I always just read and avoid partaking in

glued

Who decided to compare Kante and Schneiderlin anyway? At least compare players with similar styles. Kante is a completely different player.

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

Our squad, right now, as it stands, is easily good enough to get top four.

But it is not good enough to consider finishing outside the top four as completely unrealistic, which is a different thing altogether.

That was always the most frustrating thing about the Van Gaal reign, the fact that we always should have been doing so much better with what we had. And even then, despite his mismanagement, despite our worst performances in decades we still only missed out on goal difference. It took us playing utter dung to finish fifth, had we a good manager things would have been a lot different last season.

Despite everything over the past 3 seasons I'd still take our squad over that of almost any of our rivals. We aren't perfect but then neither are they.

It did take us playing wretched football all season to finish fourth true, but had we drawn with West Ham on the second last day, or had Swansea managed to beat City on the last one, then we finish fourth. Which does nothing to excuse LVG whatsoever, don't get me wrong... but we would only have finished fourth on account of Chelsea and City both being absolutely wretched all season too. As much as we underachieved this year so did both of them, and they both have stronger squads than us as things stand right at this very moment.

(hopefully we'll have caught up a bit in the striker dep't before the end of the day, mind!)

What I'm saying is top four should be the absolute minimum expectation - fully agreed - but I wouldn't at all call it unrealistic for us to fail to meet it, not with the squad as is right now if the likes of City and Chelsea get back on form.

Billy86

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Good thing United missed out on Neymar, because he's in big trouble with the Spanish authorities.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/740091217304641536?lang=en

He won't need to worry about that, the judge would likely just order all the evidence to be destroyed, immediately, before anyone gets the chance to look at it.

Again.

Jose has done it! The court case has been settled,according to talkSPORT!

Daily Mirror link

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/eva-carneiro-jose-mourinho-settle-8133144

Billy86

Nalz wrote: »

well that's your opinion

:pac:

hufpc8w3adnk65

Chelsea Jose and the Doc have settled. Case closed

MrMac84

MrMac84 wrote: »

Chelsea Jose and the Doc have settled. Case closed

Beat you to it!

Baldy Conscience

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

and neither of your posts do that? or anyone else on here?

if you just take it as read that everyone is presenting their opinion then you'll have a better time on here.

Does it not get tiresome typing "yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, maaaannnn" all the time?

Hence using the following in my post
"IMO"

No, I don't find it tiresome but find at times I post it because to The Docs point certain posters have a tendency to state opinions as facts and if you don't agree with them they struggle to comprehend this and imply that you simply have "rose tinted glasses on" or know nothing" etc etc

Best type's of players to bring out this "brick wall" debate in this thread include

Berbatov
Nani
Hernandez

Anyway time to move it on and all that

bangkok

MrMac84 wrote: »

Chelsea Jose and the Doc have settled. Case closed

who cares about Chelsea fc

Cantona's Collars

MrMac84 wrote: »

Chelsea Jose and the Doc have settled. Case closed

Time for him to go shopping now,

https://twitter.com/English_AS/status/740166144083038208

Mourinho ready to break Saúl's €80 million buy-out clause

gosplan

zerks wrote: »

Time for him to go shopping now,

https://twitter.com/English_AS/status/740166144083038208

Mourinho ready to break Saúl's €80 million buy-out clause

Jesus, I know there's a lot of money going around but that's just nuts.

No way would you pay that. It's just a hardball starting price inserted into Spanish contracts in case Real or Barca come calling.

No way in hell would that be the actual price. Whoever that journo is doesn't have a clue.

Lovely Bloke

@TheDOC, at this moment in time I certainly would have Vardy ahead of Rooney, yes.

RobertKK

I would love Saul Niguez, so young, so talented and a real star.