Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

DARK-KNIGHT

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We could have sacked him and brought in Jose months ago, both possibly saving this season and putting us in a better position for next season too. Jose could have done all his squad evaluation and has deals for next season sorted.

maybe jose has deals done behind closed doors. i wouldnt be surprised if lvg knows jose is working in background and will take over after cup and lvg can bow out with honour intact

DARK-KNIGHT

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I predict Utd will go after Mahrez and Kante in the summer.

i predict they will be major targets for us, chelsea, city and spurs

Mitch Connor

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

maybe jose has deals done behind closed doors. i wouldnt be surprised if lvg knows jose is working in background and will take over after cup and lvg can bow out with honour intact

I'd be shocked if LVG isn't currently working as if he will be United manager next season. He will know he is on shaky ground but he is fighting his corner, I believe.

Minderbinder

adox wrote: »

The performance yesterday was as bad as the really bad ones

We desperately need to have Martial and Rashford for West Ham to give our attack some spark and cohesion. We won't get away with another display like Norwich.

Lukker-

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

maybe jose has deals done behind closed doors. i wouldnt be surprised if lvg knows jose is working in background and will take over after cup and lvg can bow out with honour intact

Not a chance, there is no he'd be saying things like he's planning for next season if he knew a deal had been agreed.

Any negotiations with Jose while LVG is still manager would rightly piss him off.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We could have sacked him and brought in Jose months ago, both possibly saving this season and putting us in a better position for next season too. Jose could have done all his squad evaluation and has deals for next season sorted.

You can't be 100% certain that Jose was open to coming then or if he had a clause preventing him from coming then.

Minderbinder

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I predict Utd will go after Mahrez and Kante in the summer.

I wouldn't go near any of the Leicester players to be honest.

sigmundv

Minderbinder wrote:

I wouldn't go near any of the Leicester players to be honest.

Kanté is possibly the only one who would work in another team, but I don't think any of the others would work in a team that tries to play the ball out from the back and keep as much possession as possible.,

sky88

brinty wrote: »

It is time for sure
It's childish in the extreme
Hopefully it would prompt them to stop there one too....

it makes me uneasy anytime I've been in bars around OT and those chants have been sung and the Leeds chants.

thankfully have never heard them in OT.

StringerBell

Lads, dunno if its been mentioned yet but if Liverpool do win the Europa does that mean they get the CL spot regardless so it could all be in vain?

secman

StringerBell wrote: »

Lads, dunno if its been mentioned yet but if Liverpool do win the Europa does that mean they get the CL spot regardless so it could all be on vain.

No still 4 from PL for definite.

NUTZZ

StringerBell wrote: »

Lads, dunno if its been mentioned yet but if Liverpool do win the Europa does that mean they get the CL spot regardless so it could all be on vain.

secman wrote: »

No still 4 from PL for definite.

I think you missed a little something at the bottom of his post! :pac:

Hococop

Pity we don't have fellaini for tomorrow, did well the last day against them

jayo26

Ohh god this day 3 year ago we appoint David moyes.

NUTZZ

NUTZZ wrote: »

I think you missed a little something at the bottom of his post! :pac:

Its the new "Is mata cup tied?"

DARK-KNIGHT

jayo26 wrote: »

Ohh god this day 3 year ago we appoint David moyes.

"The chosen one" cringe

jayo26

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

"The chosen one" cringe

Hindsight is a great tool to have on Internet forums tho.

Korat

jayo26 wrote: »

Hindsight is a great tool to have on Internet forums tho.

DK may have been one of those who thought Moyes was the wrong choice at the time.

There are some Utd fans who want to make the same mistake we did then and ignore the best man for the job in favour of someone who meets some unwritten rules of conduct, which get conveniently ignored for some favourite personalities at the club.

bangkok

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Common since to me would suggest that by "we" he was referring to Man Utd in general. The same way as I wouldnt assume you contributed to the Utd team in any way despite your use of "we" in these posts:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99623474&postcount=9292


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99135068&postcount=4753


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99124848&postcount=4538

to be honest, i wouldnt even associate myself with the scum that sing thoses songs

jayo26

Korat wrote: »

DK may have been one of those who thought Moyes was the wrong choice at the time.

There are some Utd fans who want to make the same mistake we did then and ignore the best man for the job in favour of someone who meets some unwritten rules of conduct, which get conveniently ignored for some favourite personalities at the club.

I didn't mean it as a dig at DK I ment it in general, I was one of the ones that thought it was a great move by the club same as I also thought lvg would be lol.

The_Kew_Tour

It's nice to be getting nervous about the game tomorrow, really thought we have nothing to play for now

Drumpot

jayo26 wrote: »

I didn't mean it as a dig at DK I ment it in general, I was one of the ones that thought it was a great move by the club same as I also thought lvg would be lol.

By the short term logic of what constitutes success these days , United would never of had the fergie years.

I think the club should and will stick with LVG. Despite having the season we have had (including savage injuries) and playing poor football, the team is only a few points off second at the end of the season.

3 wins make it look completely different to the one it felt like a month ago.

The positive is also that the football can only get better and with a season under their belt the younger players should only improve. They won't get a chance if Jose comes in.

I think it's reasonable for fans to be dissapointed with the way things have gone under LVG. But I also think that fans need to start being realistic. The club cannot pay the most for players so can't just barca or Madrid it back to the top. The headline figure of two years spending is only have the net value, particularly as Di Maria was 70mil of that quoted figure.

I see plenty of positives and plenty of potential in that squad. I don't want Jose. If the club do replace LVG I hope it's somebody who can continue squad building with youth players. 17 have been blooded in some form the last 2 seasons and I think that's the way to prolonged success.

sky88

Drumpot wrote: »

By the short term logic of what constitutes success these days , United would never of had the fergie years.

I think the club should and will stick with LVG. Despite having the season we have had (including savage injuries) and playing poor football, the team is only a few points off second at the end of the season.

3 wins make it look completely different to the one it felt like a month ago.

The positive is also that the football can only get better and with a season under their belt the younger players should only improve. They won't get a chance if Jose comes in.

I think it's reasonable for fans to be dissapointed with the way things have gone under LVG. But I also think that fans need to start being realistic. The club cannot pay the most for players so can't just barca or Madrid it back to the top. The headline figure of two years spending is only have the net value, particularly as Di Maria was 70mil of that quoted figure.

I see plenty of positives and plenty of potential in that squad. I don't want Jose. If the club do replace LVG I hope it's somebody who can continue squad building with youth players. 17 have been blooded in some form the last 2 seasons and I think that's the way to prolonged success.

Now i dont want Jose at the club but to stick with LVG would be a terrible decsion. The football is so bad at the minute and some of the players look demoralised to me like morgan.

if its between lvg staying or jose coming in i would pick jose, hell at this stage id take giggs.

Leroy42

Drumpot wrote: »

By the short term logic of what constitutes success these days , United would never of had the fergie years.

I think the club should and will stick with LVG. Despite having the season we have had (including savage injuries) and playing poor football, the team is only a few points off second at the end of the season.

3 wins make it look completely different to the one it felt like a month ago.

The positive is also that the football can only get better and with a season under their belt the younger players should only improve. They won't get a chance if Jose comes in.

I think it's reasonable for fans to be dissapointed with the way things have gone under LVG. But I also think that fans need to start being realistic. The club cannot pay the most for players so can't just barca or Madrid it back to the top. The headline figure of two years spending is only have the net value, particularly as Di Maria was 70mil of that quoted figure.

I see plenty of positives and plenty of potential in that squad. I don't want Jose. If the club do replace LVG I hope it's somebody who can continue squad building with youth players. 17 have been blooded in some form the last 2 seasons and I think that's the way to prolonged success.

All very reasonable except for the fact that many of the players that are brought in by LVG, either youth or not, seem to stagnate under the current setup.

Yes, there has been glimpses of brilliance from Rashford et al, but he has also played them out of position, treated them roughly etc.

For every Rashford, I'll give you Januzai, Morgan. LVG doesn't have the monopoly on good youth players, Iwobi at Arsenal looks decent, Iheanacho at City.

Not getting into a discussion about who is better etc, but to claim LVG has somehow landed on a formula, whilst ignoring all the other very poor aspect of his reign is difficult to understand.

Overall, I would count LVG as a failure in as much as he is clearly getting less from the team than the sum of its parts. Based on that I would suggest that under LVG the longer term future of Martial. Rashford etc will be stunted if he stays rather than helped.

BTW LVG said he would be winning the league by year three. However, given the terrible state of the league this year it is strange that LVG has basically been given a pass for this year and we are accepting the top 4 is a reasonable year. Chelsea had a mare, L'pool imploded, Arsenal were pretty much the same, Spurs had a good season for them and City are awful.

You are falling for the PR of LVG that this somehow should be seen as a good result, when in fact if anything we have actually gone backwards (certainly are type of football hasn't improved) and we are close to 4th due to the other teams underperforming not us getting better. The question for next year then is will we get better as the other teams (Chelsea, City) both have new managers and would be expecting significant investment in the team

Polo_Mint

Weve only got a 50% win rate to date in the PL 25% Draw and 25% Loss Rate

I really dont want LVG next season.

He will be quit on Monday 23rd.

Better to Quit and Retire then Get fired and Retire

jayo26

Drumpot wrote: »

By the short term logic of what constitutes success these days , United would never of had the fergie years.

I think the club should and will stick with LVG. Despite having the season we have had (including savage injuries) and playing poor football, the team is only a few points off second at the end of the season.

3 wins make it look completely different to the one it felt like a month ago.

The positive is also that the football can only get better and with a season under their belt the younger players should only improve. They won't get a chance if Jose comes in.

I think it's reasonable for fans to be dissapointed with the way things have gone under LVG. But I also think that fans need to start being realistic. The club cannot pay the most for players so can't just barca or Madrid it back to the top. The headline figure of two years spending is only have the net value, particularly as Di Maria was 70mil of that quoted figure.

I see plenty of positives and plenty of potential in that squad. I don't want Jose. If the club do replace LVG I hope it's somebody who can continue squad building with youth players. 17 have been blooded in some form the last 2 seasons and I think that's the way to prolonged success.

You do realise the reason we are so close the second place is because other teams have messed up so badly we are on course for one of our lowest points totals in years.

We can't spend money?? We have spent more money then barca and Madrid in recent times we have some of the biggest sponsorship deals in football we can at this moment match any team for the right player but will not continue if we have another season like this because chances are it won't get us near 5th place next year let alone top four.

When fergie was given time to build the club up he was rebuilding a sleeping giant we were a decent cup team that won't a few trophies but hadn't won't a league title for years its a total different scenario then now..

Lvg has been backed with money and power to build a new squad that will win the league he has not shown one thing this year that he can make this squad challenge for the league next year its one baffling decision after another.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

By the short term logic of what constitutes success these days , United would never of had the fergie years.

I think the club should and will stick with LVG. Despite having the season we have had (including savage injuries) and playing poor football, the team is only a few points off second at the end of the season.

3 wins make it look completely different to the one it felt like a month ago.

The positive is also that the football can only get better and with a season under their belt the younger players should only improve. They won't get a chance if Jose comes in.

I think it's reasonable for fans to be dissapointed with the way things have gone under LVG. But I also think that fans need to start being realistic. The club cannot pay the most for players so can't just barca or Madrid it back to the top. The headline figure of two years spending is only have the net value, particularly as Di Maria was 70mil of that quoted figure.

I see plenty of positives and plenty of potential in that squad. I don't want Jose. If the club do replace LVG I hope it's somebody who can continue squad building with youth players. 17 have been blooded in some form the last 2 seasons and I think that's the way to prolonged success.

My personal opinion is that we should not use the arguably equally terrible seasons of City and Arsenal, along with the even worse season for Chelsea, as reasons for arguing our season has been close to acceptable.

We only have 3 more points at this stage of the season than we did under Moyes, and Moyes was rightly sacked.

If we get a CL spot, it is far more an indictment of City, Chelsea and Liverpool than praiseworthy for United.

Fergie would have won this league at a canter with the same players.

I just can't believe anyone can see an argument for LVG staying - its insane.

Korat

Drumpot wrote: »

By the short term logic of what constitutes success these days , United would never of had the fergie years.

I think the club should and will stick with LVG.

For a start Fergie wasn't set to retire in 1991, so he had the potential to follow through on his building process over a long time, which he did. LVG is retiring next summer, it seems like very short-term thinking not to replace him at this point.

I think you just don't want Jose to the point where you'd rather the club went the way of Liverpool in the last 26 years rather than see Utd succeed with a guy you detest as manager.

Drumpot

Leroy42 wrote: »

All very reasonable except for the fact that many of the players that are brought in by LVG, either youth or not, seem to stagnate under the current setup.

Yes, there has been glimpses of brilliance from Rashford et al, but he has also played them out of position, treated them roughly etc.

For every Rashford, I'll give you Januzai, Morgan. LVG doesn't have the monopoly on good youth players, Iwobi at Arsenal looks decent, Iheanacho at City.

Not getting into a discussion about who is better etc, but to claim LVG has somehow landed on a formula, whilst ignoring all the other very poor aspect of his reign is difficult to understand.

Overall, I would count LVG as a failure in as much as he is clearly getting less from the team than the sum of its parts. Based on that I would suggest that under LVG the longer term future of Martial. Rashford etc will be stunted if he stays rather than helped.

BTW LVG said he would be winning the league by year three. However, given the terrible state of the league this year it is strange that LVG has basically been given a pass for this year and we are accepting the top 4 is a reasonable year. Chelsea had a mare, L'pool imploded, Arsenal were pretty much the same, Spurs had a good season for them and City are awful.

You are falling for the PR of LVG that this somehow should be seen as a good result, when in fact if anything we have actually gone backwards (certainly are type of football hasn't improved) and we are close to 4th due to the other teams underperforming not us getting better. The question for next year then is will we get better as the other teams (Chelsea, City) both have new managers and would be expecting significant investment in the team

I wasn't suggesting that LVG has landed on a formula, I was saying that there is no ideal , guaranteed formula that the club can follow.

They cannot buy their way to success, because they cant spend more then other clubs around them. There is nothing spectacular about Uniteds spending in comparison to our rivals over the last decade. One year, the owners actually spent some money, but this was a club that replaced Ronaldo with Valencia during our most successful period. It was ferguson, who kept things together on a shoestring budget, while our rivals around us spent hundreds of millions. One or two seasons of matching this spending is not going to make up for that.

Again, people comparing us under the Fergie years, without accepting that hes gone. He was the definitive difference between Uniteds success and rivals. United could afford to spend f**k all in comparison to our major rivals in England and in Europe, but that's gone. Now the club cannot or will not spend astronomical amounts to bring the club back up.

Most of our young players have thrived under Van Gaal. You have no evidence to suggest that Martial will suffer other then the fact that Januzai has regressed. His attitude would appear to be a problem IMO.

Why do you have a problem with players being played out of position ? Didn't seem to be a problem with SAF. Again, there are many hypocricy's to the logic being used against LVG, that SAF himself used. SAF regularly played players out of position.

My overall assessment is that given what has happened to the club, a time of instability was inevitable. Changing managers because peoples expectations (challenging for league, champions league) is no more a guarantee of success then persevering with a manager who has changed most of the squad in 18 months and blooded 17 youth players who need time to mature.

Sacking LVG is not going to stabilize anything nor is it guaranteed to improve the clubs prospects. It just gives people the perception that something is being done and the feeling that a positive change is coming. I don't see an obvious replacement who can continue rebuilding the squad. I don't want sporadic success with a Jose, I want the satisfaction of a properly implemented strategy. Hiring Jose is a panic, nothing more then that and it suggests that the club simply does not know what to do. He has been available for sometime and the club didn't want him. To hire him would be saying that the club is in even more turmoil then it looks.

PhlegmyMoses

For anybody that thinks LVG should be given next season:

If he is intent on leaving after his 3rd year, what is the argument for keeping him, given the performance the last two years?

Leroy42

Drumpot wrote: »

To hire him would be saying that the club is in even more turmoil then it looks.

Or accepting that it is rather than trying to pretend that everything is tickity boo!

As I said you have a reasonable arguement accept that I fail to see any advancement in either the team as a whole, any discernable strategy except for sideways passing, and very few players have improved under his watch.

Rashford and Martial are products of other teams/youth system. I don't see how you can credit LVG with their development. That is not to say he hasn't helped them to progress, very hard to say either way, but he can't take all the credit.

But the negatives still far outweigh the positives. At more worrying is that I haven't seen any improvement coming through. Do you think the team played better at Norwich that under Moyes, than even earlier in the season? If you do then you have a point, I disagree in that I think if anything we are going backwards and you are letting the position in the league and the FA final cloud your judgment.

It is great we are in the position we are in giving how the year has been, but that is done to the other teams being as muck as we are rather than us progressing.

The key question, of which of course I don't have an answer but only an opinion, is do we think that keeping LVG next year is the best interest of the team? I happen to think that he has shown nothing to point to the fact that another year will make any positive difference.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My personal opinion is that we should not use the arguably equally terrible seasons of City and Arsenal, along with the even worse season for Chelsea, as reasons for arguing our season has been close to acceptable.

We only have 3 more points at this stage of the season than we did under Moyes, and Moyes was rightly sacked.

If we get a CL spot, it is far more an indictment of City, Chelsea and Liverpool than praiseworthy for United.

Fergie would have won this league at a canter with the same players.

I just can't believe anyone can see an argument for LVG staying - its insane.

But SAF isn't our manager. Why are you comparing LVG to SAF ? No manager can replace SAF, even Jose. Jose's football is not swashbuckling or entertaining despite what some people think. Its effective.

And the entire league is in a spin at the moment, not just United. You cant say "well the other top teams are having a sh*t season so we should be doing better" and ignore the fact that it shows that the landscape of the league has shifted dramatically. Having the normal, stereotypical expectations at a time when the league has been anything but normal is contradictory.

United is going through a restructure. the club decided to try and do it with a long term plan. LVG's strategy was to blood as many young players as possible. What other club has blooded as many youngsters over the last 18 months ? This would lead me to believe that the club is trying to grow a new young squad, with some experience (Schweinstager) thrown in to help it flourish.

My guess is that Giggs is primed to take over when LVG retires which wouldn't make it a normal "Well LVG is retiring next season" situation. LVG builds the squad and leaves it for Giggs to take over. Rikaard, Pep and Luiz Enrique had next to little experience when they took on their Barca roles. The key was that the youth setup and team ethos was synchronized. Replacing coaches who were familiar with the clubs ethos worked. Why cant it work for United ?

Yeh, keeping LVG is risky. Trying a long term approach is risky. But its also a strategy that would separate the club from others and if successful could be a more long term success (as opposed to sporadic success some people are craving). Sacking LVG only guarantees change, not necessarily better change, but change.

Drumpot

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

For anybody that thinks LVG should be given next season:

If he is intent on leaving after his 3rd year, what is the argument for keeping him, given the performance the last two years?

Because the plan, IMO, was for Giggs to take up the reigns. Exactly what they do in Barca. Coaches who are familiar with the setup continue on the work.

I think LVG was brought in to leave a healthy squad for Giggs.

bangkok

just seen there this is west hams last home game in upton park and after getting hammered by swansea, we will need to be at 100% and have a bit of luck to come away with 3 points

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

But SAF isn't our manager. Why are you comparing LVG to SAF ? No manager can replace SAF, even Jose. Jose's football is not swashbuckling or entertaining despite what some people think. Its effective.

And the entire league is in a spin at the moment, not just United. You cant say "well the other top teams are having a sh*t season so we should be doing better" and ignore the fact that it shows that the landscape of the league has shifted dramatically. Having the normal, stereotypical expectations at a time when the league has been anything but normal is contradictory.

United is going through a restructure. the club decided to try and do it with a long term plan. LVG's strategy was to blood as many young players as possible. What other club has blooded as many youngsters over the last 18 months ? This would lead me to believe that the club is trying to grow a new young squad, with some experience (Schweinstager) thrown in to help it flourish.

My guess is that Giggs is primed to take over when LVG retires which wouldn't make it a normal "Well LVG is retiring next season" situation. LVG builds the squad and leaves it for Giggs to take over. Rikaard, Pep and Luiz Enrique had next to little experience when they took on their Barca roles. The key was that the youth setup and team ethos was synchronized. Replacing coaches who were familiar with the clubs ethos worked. Why cant it work for United ?

Yeh, keeping LVG is risky. Trying a long term approach is risky. But its also a strategy that would separate the club from others and if successful could be a more long term success (as opposed to sporadic success some people are craving). Sacking LVG only guarantees change, not necessarily better change, but change.

I'm comparing him to SAF because I think SAF would have won the league with this group - stumbling into 4th is not an achievement worth any praise. It is a sign of failure.

Landscape shifting blah blah blah B fecking S, to be honest.

United have been crap because they have been crap, same with City. Arsenal have just utterly Arsenal'd the season. It is not because of some ideological shift or change in how football is footballed.

We are diametrically opposed on this - I believe you are seeing positives and (particularly) strategy that I don't believe exists - a restructure that doesn't exist.

For me, keeping LVG isn't a risk - it is a known quantity of failure. He won't win the league. He won't win the CL. He won't progress us towards either.

Jose, now, is the only viable solution to getting United on a positive footing - everything else is prolonging a further slide into midtable.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

Because the plan, IMO, was for Giggs to take up the reigns. Exactly what they do in Barca. Coaches who are familiar with the setup continue on the work.

I think LVG was brought in to leave a healthy squad for Giggs.

EXACTLY?

What the fook are you talking about?

Pep did it and Tito until he had to leave - who else?

Was LVG from the Barca boot room? Rijkard? Enrique? Antic? Martino? Or did all those managers actually achieve something somewhere else rather than just being promoted to manager because they played for the club for a long time?

Also, if his goal was to leave a healthy squad for Giggs - he is fecking failing at that. Every part of the squad is missing players.

You know who also had a boot room philosophy - Liverpool. they moved away from that too.

Drumpot

Leroy42 wrote: »

The key question, of which of course I don't have an answer but only an opinion, is do we think that keeping LVG next year is the best interest of the team? I happen to think that he has shown nothing to point to the fact that another year will make any positive difference.

This is a key question. But you have to try and ask yourself has there been progress or regression?

If you want to choose to gauge success on league position, then no there hasn't been progress. In saying that, every other team has regressed for different reasons (no moreso then Chelsea), but surely you have to at least awknowledge that for other reasons, every club is struggling, so its not just LVG's team.

Then as I said, he has been blooding more youth players then any other team. Why do this if the expectation is purely "Top 4 or win CL"? What other top club would spend as much time and resources getting young players blooded at the expense of first team results/Stability? This suggests the club wants him to grow a squad in a specific way that isn't "buy top players and instant success".

Then, again, you have to ask, what other top team has had as many first team changes in the last 18 months ? I'm guessing no top club, with league aspirations, has made as many changes over this period. Why would LVG do this (or the club let him) if the priority of his job wasn't more about growing a squad and club identity?

The manager and club are hardly going to publically state that LVG's priority is not instant success, but rebuilding a squad for the future. Asides from the impatience of fans, it would make marketing the club for sponcors more difficult.

Hey, maybe I am wrong, but I think theres enough evidence to suggest that the club is trying to do things differently and that people have misguided expectations on what they consider success. In the absence of being able to ask Woodward "is this your plan", nobody can say for certain if my theory is correct.

If, the target was league success and sexy football, I don't see why the club has stuck with LVG. The owners aren't stupid (as much as they annoy me) and while many people on football forums think that their ideas are unique, I am guessing they are familiar with most of the concerns expressed on this forum.

PhlegmyMoses

Drumpot wrote: »

Because the plan, IMO, was for Giggs to take up the reigns. Exactly what they do in Barca. Coaches who are familiar with the setup continue on the work.

I think LVG was brought in to leave a healthy squad for Giggs.

This plan has failed. The squad needs serious surgery and the club as a whole us in freefall. If our plan is to just blindly follow a failing plan to completion, then this club is in serious trouble.

bucketybuck

Drumpot wrote: »

Most of our young players have thrived under Van Gaal

Can you back up this statement?

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

EXACTLY?

What the fook are you talking about?

Pep did it and Tito until he had to leave - who else?

Was LVG from the Barca boot room? Rijkard? Enrique? Antic? Martino? Or did all those managers actually achieve something somewhere else rather than just being promoted to manager because they played for the club for a long time?

Also, if his goal was to leave a healthy squad for Giggs - he is fecking failing at that. Every part of the squad is missing players.

You know who also had a boot room philosophy - Liverpool. they moved away from that too.

What exactly did Riikaard, Pep and Enrique do that was so impressive before coaching the first team? You cant just say "well it didn't work for Liverpool and ignore the Barcelona model that's closer to the bootroom model then any other.

Its not a coincidence that Pep and Enrique were both huge Barcelona players (comparable with Giggs) and neither had any remarkable first team coaching experience of noteworthy discussion before taking over the Barca role.

akelly02

Polo_Mint wrote: »

When does Carricks contract expires?

soon hopefully

Drumpot

bucketybuck wrote: »

Can you back up this statement?

What young players have regressed since he joined ? One maybe ? What young players have improved or played well for the first team ?

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

What exactly did Riikaard, Pep and Enrique do that was so impressive before coaching the first team? You cant just say "well it didn't work for Liverpool and ignore the Barcelona model that's closer to the bootroom model then any other.

Its not a coincidence that Pep and Enrique were both huge Barcelona players (comparable with Giggs) and neither had any remarkable first team coaching experience of noteworthy discussion before taking over the Barca role.

Nothing particularly impressive - but both Rijkard and Enrique had been managers elsewhere, unlike Giggs.

Giggs has, imo, basically hidden at United and is not heading elsewhere due to fear of failure; hoping he gets the United job basically by default.

Leroy42

I agree on the youth thing, the problem I have is on the pitch. His style of play simply does not allow formerly decent players to express themselves to be anything other than a point on a board with a few preprogrammed moves. This makes us incredibly easy to play against, at least to nullify. You only have to look at the scoring charts to show that.

If he is on some long term development plan then why take out any sense of advancement from the players? Why restrict them so much? It seems LVG No1 target in every game is not to get beat. Goes without saying that no team wants to get beaten, but if you are really trying to build something you are prepared to take risks for the longer term benefit, LVG has shown none of this.

I think many fans, IMO, are prepared to suffer setbacks if we can see evidence that his 'philosophy' is starting to bear fruit. My worry is that we are two years down the road and I see no positives from his philosophy. No point simply changing players if the players you bring in are worse/no better than those you let go. Youth is all well and good but you need to let them learn. LVG slated Rashford publicly for making the wrong type of runs, how is that helping him?

You keep saying that SAF isn't the manager anymore, that is preceively the point. SAF dragged is from being a decent team to top of the pile and you seem to think we should allow all that to simply drift away on the promise of some future benefit which under LVG has shown no signs of being anywhere close.

We don't need to slowly get back to the top, we should have stayed at the top. Now we are faced with falling away and we can either take the view that everyone else will simply wait for us to get our act together or we make it happen. The changed football landscape, as you alluded too, means that time is no longer something we have. We have p1ssed away the past 3 years.

All the arguements you make about LVG could, to certain degrees, be made about Moyes, yet the club took the view that he offering nothing for the future. LVG has produced nothing better, with far more resources and twice the amount of time but you think that he should be given more?

PhlegmyMoses

akelly02 wrote: »

soon hopefully

Harsh on Carrick. Been a class act for us over the years.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

What young players have regressed since he joined ? One maybe ? What young players have improved or played well for the first team ?

Lingard and Rashford have done well - Fosu-Mensah looks like he will too.

Blackett seemed important, then dumped.
Varella seemed important, then dumped.
McNair seemed important, then dumped.
Januzaj done nothing.
Wilson, Pieira haven't progressed, nor given the chance to (imo).
Johnstone given no time ahead of that utter fraud Romero.

I don't see how you can back up saying the MAJORITY of youngsters have THRIVED.

RobertKK

I don't care at this stage, I just want LVG to manage the team to three more consecutive victories.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm comparing him to SAF because I think SAF would have won the league with this group - stumbling into 4th is not an achievement worth any praise. It is a sign of failure.

Landscape shifting blah blah blah B fecking S, to be honest.

United have been crap because they have been crap, same with City. Arsenal have just utterly Arsenal'd the season. It is not because of some ideological shift or change in how football is footballed.

We are diametrically opposed on this - I believe you are seeing positives and (particularly) strategy that I don't believe exists - a restructure that doesn't exist.

For me, keeping LVG isn't a risk - it is a known quantity of failure. He won't win the league. He won't win the CL. He won't progress us towards either.

Jose, now, is the only viable solution to getting United on a positive footing - everything else is prolonging a further slide into midtable.

Blah blah blah, very compelling argument. Good way of saying "well I cant really answer that so I will instead use a smart comment". yay, sarcasm avoidance strategy implemented.

So what top teams in England have improved this season ? Everybody has declined, but United are on course to pretty much match what they did last season. It actually looks like United will have the best season on season comparison in comparison to the teams who finished alongside them in the top 4 last season.

You want the manager who was sacked by mid table chelsea to take over United. . You don't see the irony in this view ? He left that club in tatters after burning every bridge.

sky88

I think people forget that pep was the manager of the b team for barca. this isn't like managing the reserves in england they are in the second or third division so he had experience. Zidane too had this and i think it helped them greatly.

Giggs coming from being an assistant coach who no one really knows how much input he has other then scouting the opposition. I dont think he has too much control over transfers or who plays. I think if he did wellbeck or hernandez would still be there for example.

Giggs would be a huge huge risk.

Also on the young players yes LVG hasnt been afriad to play them but he hasnt shown faith in them except for Martial, rashford and lingard.

PhlegmyMoses

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Nothing particularly impressive - but both Rijkard and Enrique had been managers elsewhere, unlike Giggs.

Giggs has, imo, basically hidden at United and is not heading elsewhere due to fear of failure; hoping he gets the United job basically by default.

Barca have pretty much done one and done managers since Guardiola. Granted Tito couldn't be helped but Martini got the boot after a year and Enrique was under immense pressure half way through this season and would defo lose his job if they had performed like us this year. He'll just about keep it now because they will most likely win the league.

If we are following the Barca model, we need to be even more cut throat.