Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

UnitedIrishman

Ibra would be brilliant for a couple of years while Tony and Rashford develop. There's little use in comparing Falcao to him because they're very different players - one was a powerful center forward who relied on physical attributes (aswell as accuracy) to get his goals and rushed back from a bad knee injury. He came to England and realised that he wasn't strong enough to beat the best center backs, wasn't quick enough any more to get in behind and overall had little chance of creating space to have attempts on goal. He was also in a system that was fairly redundant attacking wise.

Zlatan still has the physical attributes he had a few years ago, shows no sign of stopping in terms of goalscoring and contributes from play aswell. I'm not expecting him to come in and score 25+ goals but he can defintely improve our play in the final third.

RobertKK

It was reported Florentino Perez wanted Mourinho back at Madrid, but Mourinho was set on becoming the future United manager.

Trigger

Drumpot wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10293141/eric-cantona-says-pep-guardiola-should-have-been-manchester-united-manager

If reports are true, Jose was paid a couple of million around the time Pep was negotiating with city. so,city got the hottest manager available while the best Woodward could do is spend 5 million on another manager to hold on till the end of the season... This guy is not the master negotiator. He's like a kid playing football manager with unlimited funds to waste. Except he's just overpaying for everything.

http://youtu.be/_cZqTKzS2aI

Your Airbag

Drumpot wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10293141/eric-cantona-says-pep-guardiola-should-have-been-manchester-united-manager

If reports are true, Jose was paid a couple of million around the time Pep was negotiating with city. so, city got the hottest manager available while the best Woodward could do is spend 5 million on another manager to hold on till the end of the season... This guy is not the master negotiator. He's like a kid playing football manager with unlimited funds to waste. Except he's just overpaying for everything.

http://youtu.be/_cZqTKzS2aI

Says "If reports are true" then quotes SSN as the source. Pick one you can't have both.

Trigger

The Ed bashing is hilarious at this stage.

Most fans want LVG gone, so he sacks him, and gets abuse for Mendes leaking the info while he holds off with any statement to allow LVG to get out of the country.

Then signs (well not officially yet) a WC manager to replace him and he gets abuse because he practically put a downpayment down on one of the best managers in football to ward of interest from Madrid, PSG, and the money crowds in Turkey and China.

bucketybuck

astradave wrote: »

Most fans want LVG gone, so he sacks him, and gets abuse for Mendes leaking the info while he holds off with any statement to allow LVG to get out of the country.

Then signs (well not officially yet) a WC manager to replace him and he gets abuse because he practically put a downpayment down on one of the best managers in football to ward of interest from Madrid, PSG, and the money crowds in Turkey and China.

Or, he could have sacked Van Gaal at Christmas and appointed Mourinho then, saving not only the downpayment but also our CL hopes.

Would that not have been better?

Lets not give Ed too much credit for being 6 months late with the obvious decisions.

jayo26

Drumpot wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10293141/eric-cantona-says-pep-guardiola-should-have-been-manchester-united-manager

If reports are true, Jose was paid a couple of million around the time Pep was negotiating with city. so, city got the hottest manager available while the best Woodward could do is spend 5 million on another manager to hold on till the end of the season... This guy is not the master negotiator. He's like a kid playing football manager with unlimited funds to waste. Except he's just overpaying for everything.

http://youtu.be/_cZqTKzS2aI

And if reports are untrue your very foolish for believing everything ya read

Pep is not a god of a manager more so then jose is the time to judge who has the best deal is this time next season until then we are speculating and talking nonsenseas i said before jose is proven winner on england pep isnt.

But im happy

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Or, he could have sacked Van Gaal at Christmas and appointed Mourinho then, saving not only the downpayment but also our CL hopes.

Would that not have been better?

Lets not give Ed too much credit for being 6 months late with the obvious decisions.

Yeah sacking managers mid-season are always win win right. So jose would have 100% gotten us into the CL even with the massive injury crisis? What else can you see in your crystal ball?

I swear every summer as soon as the season ends and we head into the transfer period posters in this thread turn into the most impatient, shrieking, spoilt brats your likely to see anywhere.

Woodward would have to sign Jose and seven world class players in one week to keep this mob happy.

RobertKK

bucketybuck wrote: »

Or, he could have sacked Van Gaal at Christmas and appointed Mourinho then, saving not only the downpayment but also our CL hopes.

Would that not have been better?

Lets not give Ed too much credit for being 6 months late with the obvious decisions.

But we don't know if he could have appointed Mourinho at Christmas.
We don't know what the agreement was when Mourinho and Chelsea signed the dotted line to part ways.
It might have prevented him from signing for another PL Club during the same season.
It may not have been as straight forward as it looked.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yeah sacking managers mid-season are always win win right. So jose would have 100% gotten us into the CL even with the massive injury crisis? What else can you see in your crystal ball?

I swear every summer as soon as the season ends and we head into the transfer period posters in this thread turn into the most impatient, shrieking, spoilt brats your likely to see anywhere.

Woodward would have to sign Jose and seven world class players in one week to keep this mob happy.

:rolleyes:

Alf Veedersane

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Crazy figures....

And next season the bottom team will have more tv money than the winner this season.

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

But we don't know if he could have appointed Mourinho at Christmas.
We don't know what the agreement was when Mourinho and Chelsea signed the dotted line to part ways.
It might have prevented him from signing for another PL Club during the same season.
It may not have been as straight forward as it looked.

These are all the same unknowns that people quoted over the past six months as they wondered why Van Gaal was still there. But in my opinion I don't think there was anything stopping Jose from signing except reluctance on the United side, I'm not really surprised now that once the season finished and United finally pulled the trigger on Van Gaal these unknown reasons don't seem to matter any more.

Thats just my opinion and I'm happy we have finally got here, but no, I won't give Ed too much credit for being so late to the party, we are out of the CL on the back of that inaction.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Very well constructed counter argument. I'm stumped to find a response as cleverly articulated.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Very well constructed counter argument. I'm stumped to find a response as cleverly articulated.

Why would I need a counter argument for the ten billionth time you have flounced in to call me a complainer? Why argue against boring strawmen?

RobertKK

bucketybuck wrote: »

These are all the same unknowns that people quoted over the past six months as they wondered why Van Gaal was still there. But in my opinion I don't think there was anything stopping Jose from signing except reluctance on the United side, I'm not really surprised now that once the season finished and United finally pulled the trigger on Van Gaal these unknown reasons don't seem to matter any more.

Thats just my opinion and I'm happy we have finally got here, but no, I won't give Ed too much credit for being so late to the party, we are out of the CL on the back of that inaction.

But you are still just presuming it was all straightforward at the end of the day, with no evidence for that.
We don't know, and to place blame on someone when you don't have all the facts makes it an ill informed judgement either way.

Liam McPoyle

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yeah sacking managers mid-season are always win win right. So jose would have 100% gotten us into the CL even with the massive injury crisis? What else can you see in your crystal ball?

While we will never know for sure that we would have gotten top 4 if LVG had left at Christmas, we only lost out on top 4 on goal difference. Its not difficult to envision a manager of Jose's experience getting at least one extra point, is it?

The Newcastle game comes to mind for example.

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

But you are still just presuming it was all straightforward at the end of the day, with no evidence for that.
We don't know, and to place blame on someone when you don't have all the facts makes it an ill informed judgement either way.

But to presume the opposite you have to believe, without any evidence, that there was some unknown factor stopping an out of work coach being appointed at Manchester United, and that whatever that factor was it stopped being applicable the day after the FA cup final.

Neither of us has evidence, but its far simpler and far more likely that the delay was on Uniteds side, that instead of shady backroom deals they simply decided to stick with their current coach and give him more time.

Its not about throwing blame around, I just don't see the praise inherent from doing a deal that I think could and should have been done months ago.

RobertKK

bucketybuck wrote: »

But to presume the opposite you have to believe, without any evidence, that there was some unknown factor stopping an out of work coach being appointed at Manchester United, and that whatever that factor was it stopped being applicable the day after the FA cup final.

Neither of us has evidence, but its far simpler and far more likely that the delay was on Uniteds side, that instead of shady backroom deals they simply decided to stick with their current coach and give him more time.

Its not about throwing blame around, I just don't see the praise inherent from doing a deal that I think could and should have been done months ago.

The FA cup is the last possible domestic game for a PL team.

Amazing how it was a matter of minutes rather than hours or days that the news broke that Van Gaal was losing his job, to be replaced by Mourinho.

Why was it not earlier?

Before that we had speculation, but on the night of the FA cup it was reported as definite.
Why the wait?

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

Why the wait?

You tell me? Does everything you just described not point more to the club simply having decided to wait rather than any legal/contractual/ethical block stopping the move?

Polo_Mint

Who gives a fuck.

LVG is Gone

Jose is coming in.

Ifs and buts are bollix

RobertKK

bucketybuck wrote: »

You tell me? Does everything you just described not point more to the club simply having decided to wait rather than any legal/contractual/ethical block stopping the move?

I am not going to presume, but I have seen it in other sport's contracts where gardening leave is used until the season is over.
So I don't know what the situation was, but to blame Ed is based on not knowing the facts.

Discodog

The fact that they are only talking to Jose after LvG has gone supports the view that Jose regards LvG as a good friend & wouldn't do things behind his back.

bucketybuck

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Who gives a fuck.

LVG is Gone

Jose is coming in.

Ifs and buts are bollix

A discussion on a discussion board. Think about it.

bucketybuck

Discodog wrote: »

The fact that they are only talking to Jose after LvG has gone supports the view that Jose regards LvG as a good friend & wouldn't do things behind his back.

Not sure how that matters, even if Jose will only talk when LVG is gone does that change Uniteds decision on when LVG is gone?

Flint Fredstone

There could be any number of reasons why Jose didn't want to or couldn't come before the end of the season. Woodward could be one of them or he might have tried really hard to make it happen. We don't know.

roosterman71

I always assumed, rightly or wrongly, that LvG was kept on until it was mathematically impossible not to get the champions league due to his contract. The same happened with Moyes where he failed to meet expectations, so his payout was cut. Not being able to get CL only mathematically happened after Bournemouth. Then, it made no sense to rock the boat before the cup final.

StringerBell

It would make no sense to wait until mathematically impossible to get CL to save money on a contract termination, while passing up on all the CL money.

Van Gaal had a year left, it was chump change to the club either way tbh.

Moyes had a 6 year deal which is a different kettle of fish.

Flint Fredstone

roosterman71 wrote: »

I always assumed, rightly or wrongly, that LvG was kept on until it was mathematically impossible not to get the champions league due to his contract. The same happened with Moyes where he failed to meet expectations, so his payout was cut. Not being able to get CL only mathematically happened after Bournemouth. Then, it made no sense to rock the boat before the cup final.

Contracts are broken when things don't work out. If he did manage to get top 4 I'm pretty certain he would still have gotten the boot.

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Contracts are broken when things don't work out. If he did manage to get top 4 I'm pretty certain he would still have gotten the boot.

I'm not so sure. 4th and a cup could have saved him. 20% chance at my best guess.

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

I'm not so sure. 4th and a cup could have saved him. 20% chance at my best guess.

He was a dead man walking for months. No way a City slip up at Swansea was going to decide his fate.

jayo26

It could of been jose wanted time out after been sacked lets face it he was hardley gonna jump straight back into work and the board or ed probably thought no point sacking lvg in feb or march we were unbelievable still hanging onto grabbing champs league either way I don't care as long as we get him in now.

DM_7

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yes we do need another striker but signing Ibrahimovic would just kick that can down the road another year. I don't think a year with Ibrahimovic as the main goalscorer really allows them to develop to the point where they are in a position to assume the mantle in 12 months.

I do take the point that he boosts chances of getting into CL and attracting players we need though.

United should kick that can down the road (imo). At the moment United need a striker but how Martial and Rashford will develop, where they will play for United is not that clear. Rashford was a wide player in the underage set up and could well end up as a wide player or striker.

Potentially, giving Martial and Rashford another year with options about where they play will help United make a better medium/long term investment. United will have a better idea about where they should spend next summer - buy a Striker, No 10 or wide forward.

A striker is needed regardless this summer but also need other players. A short term signing in one position frees up a transfer fee for another position. As that player would leave relatively quickly it also creates space for a major signing in another transfer window when (hopefully) a Champions League campaign will be ahead.

United could well go off and spend a fortune on a striker but I can see good reasons for a short term signing this summer if they take that route.

Mitch Connor

DM_7 wrote: »

United should kick that can down the road (imo). At the moment United need a striker but how Martial and Rashford will develop, where they will play for United is not that clear. Rashford was a wide player in the underage set up and could well end up as a wide player or striker.

Giving Martial and Rashford another year with optiona about where they play will help United make a better medium/long term investment. United will have a better idea about where they should spend next summer - buy a Striker, No 10 or wide forward.

A striker is needed regardless this summer but also need other players. A short term signing in one position frees up a transfer fee for another position. As that player would leave relatively quickly it also creates space for a major signing in another transfer window when (hopefully) a Champions League campaign will be ahead.

rashford was a number 10 in the youths I thought. but overall I agree with your point - how and where those lads develop could be key to the next few years (in terms of success and transfer policy)

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

rashford was a number 10 in the youths I thought. but overall I agree with your point - how and where those lads develop could be key to the next few years (in terms of success and transfer policy)

I didn't realise he was a 10. I wouldn't mind seeing him there some time so he can get better chances to link with Martial.

Sand

Discodog wrote: »

The fact that they are only talking to Jose after LvG has gone supports the view that Jose regards LvG as a good friend & wouldn't do things behind his back.

Someone in Jose's camp leaked LVGs sacking on the day of the FA cup final to ensure LVG wouldn't even get 30 minutes to enjoy the win. Totally unnecessary. Doesn't sound all that friendly to me.

Rayne Wooney

A great problem to have is a negative manager who breaks goal scoring records

You are hardly going to be sitting there, while the team is 3-0 up, and say to yourself "you know what this game has been boring"

RobertKK

I see UEFA have ordered Liverpool to contact United within 30 days to pay for the damage caused by their fans at Old Trafford.

sReq | uTeK

bucketybuck wrote: »

Or, he could have sacked Van Gaal at Christmas and appointed Mourinho then, saving not only the downpayment but also our CL hopes.

Would that not have been better?

Lets not give Ed too much credit for being 6 months late with the obvious decisions.

Seriously I don't get this. You have NO idea nor do I for that matter but perhaps as a payout clause from Chelsea he had to sign a non compete for the remainder of the year and couldn't manage in England? But that wouldn't stop him from going back to Madrid. If you look at 5 million which is peanuts then it's 5 million well spent if we have him now and PSG and Madrid don't..


Again pure speculation

Umaro

Jose keeps it super defensive in the big games. From his most recent league-winning season:

Man City 1 - 1 Chelsea
Chelsea 2 - 0 Arsenal
Man Utd 1 - 1 Chelsea
Liverpool 1 - 2 Chelsea
Chelsea 1 - 1 Man City
Chelsea 1 - 0 Man Utd
Arsenal 0 - 0 Chelsea
Chelsea 1 - 1 Liverpool

Most of these games were excruciating to watch - but he didn't lose any of them (W3 D5). Thats what you get with Jose.

StringerBell

DM_7 wrote: »

I didn't realise he was a 10. I wouldn't mind seeing him there some time so he can get better chances to link with Martial.

He didn't stand out all that much for me in the underage teams, seems to be really flourishing in his role in the first team though. Plenty of developing to do but a very good positive first run in the team, up to him now to put in the work to stay there.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Seriously I don't get this. You have NO idea nor do I for that matter but perhaps just ****ing perhaps as a payout clause from Chelsea he had to sign a non compete for the remainder of the year and couldn't manage in England? But that wouldn't stop him from going back to Madrid. If you look at 5 million which is peanuts then it's 5 million well spent if we have him now and PSG and Madrid don't..


Again pure speculation

I've already addressed this today. My suggestion of a club simply making a poor decision satisfies Occams Razor far more easily than any claim that there was some unknown non-compete clause stopping a manager like Mourinho taking a job he has long courted. My suggestion doesn't need to invent any unknown details like that, so which is more likely to be true?

Maybe Jose had a non-compete clause. Maybe he was being blackmailed by LVG. Maybe he was waiting to see if Villa stayed up. Speculate all you want but almost any reason you can think of requires more evidence than the possibility that the club simply made a bad call and decided to give Van Gaal more time.

I don't know the reasons, probably never will, but I know what my opinion is based on a few years of Ed Woodward decision making.

enviro

Personal terms agreed SOURCE SKY

Trigger

enviro wrote: »

Personal terms agreed SOURCE SKY

From their ticker:

Sky Sports wrote:

'PERSONAL TERMS AGREED'

Jose Mourinho has agreed personal terms with Manchester United, although lawyers for both parties are still in negotiations over a number of image rights issues, which must be resolved before a contract can be signed, according to our sources.

Sky Sports News HQ understands the length of Mourinho’s contract and his salary have now been agreed after positive talks between Manchester United executive vice-chairman, Ed Woodward, and Mourinho’s agent, Jorge Mendes.

However, dialogue is ongoing regarding the image rights conflicts, and it remains unclear whether or not these issues will be concluded in time for Mourinho to put pen to paper on his contract on Wednesday.

Edit: bit more on the Image rights:

THE DEAL GETS CLOSER

Here's our reporter Andy Burton with some more details on tonight's breaking news:

"This deal is very close to being complete. Personal terms have been agreed and my understanding is the talks have all gone well. The contract length and his salary have been agreed, it's all about image rights now.

"For example, Mourinho has a deal with Jaguar, while Manchester United have an arrangement with Chevrolet. These things won't scupper the deal but they need to be worked on.

"The key line coming out of this is that he has agreed personal terms and this deal is edging closer to being done."

Minderbinder

Umaro wrote: »

Jose keeps it super defensive in the big games. From his most recent league-winning season:

Man City 1 - 1 Chelsea
Chelsea 2 - 0 Arsenal
Man Utd 1 - 1 Chelsea
Liverpool 1 - 2 Chelsea
Chelsea 1 - 1 Man City
Chelsea 1 - 0 Man Utd
Arsenal 0 - 0 Chelsea
Chelsea 1 - 1 Liverpool

Most of these games were excruciating to watch - but he didn't lose any of them (W3 D5). Thats what you get with Jose.

and that was with the most talented team in the league, which we can't nearly claim to be and probably haven't been post ronaldo. I suppose we can add spurs and leicester to the list of important games too.

I think Jose will eventually be successful to some extent at United. but using the goal scoring record at madrid as an indicator for what he will do at United is ludicrous. there are so many more evenly matched games in the pl now and his approach to those kinds of games has always been cautious.

I think the best job he ever did was with inter. that was absolute perfection. he inherited the best team in italy at the time but he improved individuals and the team hugely in two years. they weren't the most talented but he built a team without weakness.

I don't know if he has the ability or desire to build a truly expansive team that would sweep all comers aside. but I think he can and I hope he can do another inter.

Lord TSC

Imagine if conflicts over a sponsorship caused an irreparable breakdown :pac:

syngindub

wondering if jose might crack a smile tomorrow.
Seems very down in the dumps !!

Jayop

Minderbinder wrote: »

and that was with the most talented team in the league, which we can't nearly claim to be and probably haven't been post ronaldo. I suppose we can add spurs and leicester to the list of important games too.

I think Jose will eventually be successful to some extent at United. but using the goal scoring record at madrid as an indicator for what he will do at United is ludicrous. there are so many more evenly matched games in the pl now and his approach to those kinds of games has always been cautious.

I think the best job he ever did was with inter. that was absolute perfection. he inherited the best team in italy at the time but he improved individuals and the team hugely in two years. they weren't the most talented but he built a team without weakness.

I don't know if he has the ability or desire to build a truly expansive team that would sweep all comers aside. but I think he can and I hope he can do another inter.

If you're referring to my post comparing goals scored, then forget all the seasons he was outside the PL. Just in England he's managed 5 full 38 game seasons and outscored United in 3 of them, equaled us once and was worse once.

The comparison is more to demonstrate that for all his accusations of too much defensive boring play for Manchester United, he's outscored us more often than not.

StringerBell

It would be wrong to say his brand of football is expansive though.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Imagine if conflicts over a sponsorship caused an irreparable breakdown :pac:

Well according to Sky News its not supposed to be anything major, i'd say it would be something like United buying Jaguar out of the contract or something like that.

Headshot

syngindub wrote: »

wondering if jose might crack a smile tomorrow.
Seems very down in the dumps !!

You would be to if you have those vultures in the press tracking you 24/7.

I'm surprised Sky haven't setup a Jose channel. 24/7 Jose Mourinho. Watch when he takes a dump