Coming home to Ireland with a non EU spouse - My experience

R.D. aka MR.D

Hi all,

I thought I'd post my experience here because when I was still away, I was having a hard time finding information. So, my husband is an American (US citizen).

We got married in Vegas and about 10days later we entered Ireland. I was expecting a big fuss at immigration in Dublin but I went up with him and said that I'm Irish and he's my husband and we're planning on moving here. The immigration officer stamped his passport, chit chatted with us for a bit and gave us a little slip with info that we had to register at the Garda station. Very simple and straight forward.

Next day, we went to the Garda station. Turns out that the immigration gard there is incredibly busy! So we had to wait a week to get an appointment. I'd advise anyone going down that route to ring well in advance and make an appointment because the appointment we got was actually a cancellation, otherwise we would have had to wait 3 weeks.

A week later, we went to the garda station. He took our passports and marriage certificate. He typed a bunch of info into the computer and then took my husbands fingerprints. He told us the card would come in a week or 2.

3 weeks later!!!!!! We were able to pick up the card. It was kind of annoying that it took so long and the communication wasn't very clear but I understand that at my local garda station they seem to be extremely busy.

Next we wanted to get his pps number. That was a nightmare and half because the woman was so damn rude and I know if my husband had gone on his own, she would have bullied him out of getting one. But I persevered and had an answer for every single thing she tried to nitpick about. So basically, you need to be super prepared and assertive.

Now to our major problems:

Bank account: Because he doesn't have a job, he can't get a bank account because they need certain proofs of address as per Central Bank rules. Even the letter from the Social Welfare office with his pps card isn't good enough proof of address.


Renting: Everyone is having the same problems in Dublin obviously but being returning emigrant makes it worse.

Jobs: We're having a hard time finding work. I got rejected from two positions that I interviewed for. I think things have changed a lot in Ireland since I left and they are looking for something different. But we've changed our direction this week and are trying something different so hopefully something will come from that.


On a personal level, I'm having a hard enough time being back. I think that I might settle back in but I was really looking forward to it but then it hit me how little had changed. But at the same time things have changed enough that it seems to make life harder. I'm not sure, it might just be the shock of being back. Also, being the spouse who is from the country is a lot more pressure than I expected. You also get to see Ireland through an outsider's eyes and at the minute, I think it's 70% negative things that I'm noticing. Hopefully when we finally get an apartment and jobs, I'll feel a lot better.


Anyway, hopefully, some one finds this helpful as I had a hard time finding info on bringing an American spouse.

Norinoco

Great post. What is the new direction you are trying for work?

Any tips for getting the PPS number from a mean person behind the desk?

R.D. aka MR.D

Norinoco wrote: »

Great post. What is the new direction you are trying for work?

Any tips for getting the PPS number from a mean person behind the desk?

For the PPS I told her it was for the driver theory test. I'll be honest though, she really didn't want to help us. But i wouldn't back down because i knew waiting to get a job to get one would be hassle. For example, I'm now employed but totally homeless. If my husband was homeless but with a job then he would be on emergency tax for so bloody long. He has the number now so it's all good. I don't know if people in other social welfare offices are nicer but if your spouse needs one then make sure you go with them.

As i mentioned I actually got a job so that's great. But we are still without a place to live. We're burning through money fast. It's so depressing. Right now, i would say i regret coming back but maybe things will start to look up for us. It's too soon to tell if it was a good idea or not.

Norinoco

Bloody hell, it sounds like a mountain to climb just to get the basics sorted.
Well done on getting a job sorted though, at least it's a start.

How is your husband coping with the change?
My husband is Aussie and I think I would stress over him settling in more than he would!

R.D. aka MR.D

Norinoco wrote: »

Bloody hell, it sounds like a mountain to climb just to get the basics sorted.
Well done on getting a job sorted though, at least it's a start.

How is your husband coping with the change?
My husband is Aussie and I think I would stress over him settling in more than he would!

Oh god, you're just like me then! I feel so guilty that I have a job now and he doesn't. I feel guilty when he says anything negative at all about something to do with Ireland. It's so much pressure being the spouse from the country you move to. We've been together over 4 years now and this is honestly the toughest time we've been through and we've lived in 3 different countries together (none were our home countries).
I think if he could just get a job or at least an interview for a job that would make him feel better. He's just so damn defeated. But what can we do?

astonaidan

I had the same problem with the PPS number, the woman was a joke, cranky aul sod.
Didnt have a problem with the Guarda the Immigration Officer is a old friend, so got it within a week

Birdsong

A tip for proof of address, buy a TV licence in the post office. It is an official document and accepted as proof of address

Wompa1

When you say you went to social welfare office with him...was he signing up for jobseekers with the PPS?

I thought you had to have worked in the country for at least 6 months to claim...

Speedwell

Wompa1 wrote: »

When you say you went to social welfare office with him...was he signing up for jobseekers with the PPS?

I thought you had to have worked in the country for at least 6 months to claim...

I'm an American spouse of an Irish citizen. In 2014 when I arrived, I was requested to get a PPS number in order to register for residency, but getting the PPS number required that I be a resident. The office initially refused to issue me one, so we went to the immigration officer to explain what happened. The immigration officer gave us a handwritten note to take to the social services office to ask them to proceed with the PPS number, and they complied. Of course, we do not live in Dublin!

Also, you cannot get any means-tested benefit unless you meet habitual residency criteria, which a new non-US immigrant will not meet for two years, absent exceptional circumstances. Jobseekers Benefit is not means-tested, but it does rely on work history in Ireland, as you point out.

psheaser

Christ,

What a torrid experience, sorry to hear about that.

modsnip: Let's not have any more of this, please.

Hope everything works out for you and your husband.

Wompa1

Speedwell wrote: »

I'm an American spouse of an Irish citizen. In 2014 when I arrived, I was requested to get a PPS number in order to register for residency, but getting the PPS number required that I be a resident. The office initially refused to issue me one, so we went to the immigration officer to explain what happened. The immigration officer gave us a handwritten note to take to the social services office to ask them to proceed with the PPS number, and they complied. Of course, we do not live in Dublin!

Also, you cannot get any means-tested benefit unless you meet habitual residency criteria, which a new non-US immigrant will not meet for two years, absent exceptional circumstances. Jobseekers Benefit is not means-tested, but it does rely on work history in Ireland, as you point out.

Ah, I see. I was wondering what was going on for the OP since he got the PPS already.

Speedwell

psheaser wrote: »

Christ,

What a torrid experience, sorry to hear about that.

Modsnip
Hope everything works out for you and your husband.

So far, so good, thanks. I'm working and at the moment he's looking for a new gig, but as I said above, we do not live in Dublin so suitable jobs for him are hard to find. Incidentally I was hired by a major pharmaceutical firm for what amounted to a lot of money around here, only to have the job offer withdrawn for what a solicitor later told me were bogus reasons, and the solicitor and I suspected that the immigration stamp with less than a year remaining was the real issue. Of course, the first stamp or two are only issued for a year, anyway!

I have sometimes idly wondered why people from prosperous first-world countries are treated the same by Irish immigration as people from unstable second-world and destitute third-world countries, but it's a sort of selfish and naive thought, I admit.

shaunr68

We moved from the UK a few months ago which of course is an EU country, for the time being anyway! So our circumstances are different to yours but a couple of comments:

PPS Number. We applied online and found the process to be quite straightforward. The PPS numbers were sent to our solicitor dealing with the house purchase so that we wouldn't miss out on the fantastic opportunity to pay some tax (in this case, stamp duty).

Bank Account. Can't you get a single existing account switched to a joint account? I would probably wait until you have a settled address and then when you sign up with utility providers, do so in both names, or in joint names so that he will have some documentation in his name. We initially opened a non-resident joint account with AIB and had some trouble when it came to notifying them of our change of address from the UK as we had no documentation to prove the address. Cottage out in the sticks, LPT paid for year by previous owner, no mains water, no gas, no phone line - electriciy account had to be registered in ONE name so how do we provide proof of address for both of us? Discussed with local branch of AIB who were happy with a letter from our solicitor confirming the house purchase, along with electrity bill in one name and mobile broadband contract in another name, backed up with copies of our UK passports and driving licences.

Best of luck
Shaun

R.D. aka MR.D

Wompa1 wrote: »

When you say you went to social welfare office with him...was he signing up for jobseekers with the PPS?

I thought you had to have worked in the country for at least 6 months to claim...

The social welfare office is the same place that you get your pps no. in my town. Maybe it's different in other places but it's the same place you go to sign on or whatever, there is no separate pps section.

He was getting the pps so that he wouldn't have to be emergency taxed for ages when starting work because it is unlikely that we would have an address. The pps no. is now also requested by many landlords in Dublin to be eligible to rent.

R.D. aka MR.D

shaunr68 wrote: »

Bank Account. Can't you get a single existing account switched to a joint account?

This now requires the same documents as opening your own account due to central bank rules. Time was that I could have added him to my accounts but the rules have changed.

We've hopefully found a place to rent now so will get a utility bill in the near future. It's the new central bank rules. The lady i spoke to in the bank told me that even some older Irish people are having problems because for example all the utilities etc have always been in the husbands name, they don't drive and so on.

astonaidan

Wompa1 wrote: »

When you say you went to social welfare office with him...was he signing up for jobseekers with the PPS?

I thought you had to have worked in the country for at least 6 months to claim...

That incorrect, as soon as you get PPS they can be added to your claim

Speedwell

astonaidan wrote: »

That incorrect, as soon as you get PPS they can be added to your claim

They can't apply in their own right, though, and the returning Irish citizen can only claim if they have enough work history (and can't claim means-tested benefits at all if they have lost habitual residency). It is a bit tricky.

R.D. aka MR.D

Speedwell wrote: »

They can't apply in their own right, though, and the returning Irish citizen can only claim if they have enough work history (and can't claim means-tested benefits at all if they have lost habitual residency). It is a bit tricky.

The rules for habitual residency have changed recently enough apparently because too many people were coming back after 2 years and being left without any way to claim. Now, you just have to prove that you lived here for a long time.

For example, I was gone for over 4 years. I last paid tax in 2012 but because I was obviously a long term Irish resident before (grew up here and paid tax etc) I wouldn't have much of a problem.

We don't need social welfare though, thankfully. The system is so invasive, I'd rather spend my savings while looking for work than deal with the endless paperwork and the rude staff.

Fysh

MOD NOTE: I've snipped and deleted a couple of posts in this thread which were not relevant to the OP and which contained inflammatory comments about immigration and racial groups. Any further posts along those lines will get deleted, with repeat offenders being banned.

TeaBagMania

Have read similar post about issues at the welfare office obtaining a PPS number. Lucky your husband had you by his side. The only option or those of us not so lucky is to print out the rules directly from the website and bring them with you

Check out Q7, you obviously need a PPS number to get a driver s license and a GNIB card should be proof enough you re in Ireland for the long haul, thought you need a PPS number to get a bank account as well?

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-PPS-Number-Frequently-Asked.aspx

aaabbbb

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

3 weeks later!!!!!! We were able to pick up the card. It was kind of annoying that it took so long and the communication wasn't very clear but I understand that at my local garda station they seem to be extremely busy.

Just wondering if this card is the same as a Stamp 4 which allows your husband to work without a work permit ?

or does the card come first and then the stamp allowing you to work after ?

Reason I'm asking is because I have an Irish family member who wants to return home here with her US husband and 2 kids. However, all the info she can find available online suggests it can take up to a year to acquire a stamp 4 and the ability to work here legally which as her husband is the primary earner in their family makes it not really a viable option to have to wait that long.

But it seems from your experience, if i'm understanding it correctly that it only took you a few weeks to be able to get the necessary documents/permissions to enable your husband to work here without a work permit ?

Speedwell

If the immigrant has a Stamp 4, it will be shown on the GNIB card. When I came to Ireland with my Irish husband about two and a half years ago, I was also the main earner and had just been laid off from an IT job in the oil industry. We explained our situation to the immigration official, he agreed that I was obviously highly skilled and employable, and I was able to get a Stamp 4 right away ("right away" being as soon as my card arrived and I picked it up).

At that time, I think the rules were being rearranged and the social welfare officer did not clearly understand that she could issue me a PPS number without me showing permanent residency (because I needed the PPS number to get the GNIB card, duh). In the end the immigration official had to hand-write a note to the social welfare officer explaining that as far as he was concerned it was fine to issue me a PPS number. We went back to the social welfare office, where the social welfare officer gave the note a dirty look (checkmate, SWO) and approved the issuance of my PPS number. I still had to ask her for written proof of the number so I could take it back to the immigration officer. Upon hearing about the social welfare officer's thwarted reaction, the immigration officer laughed and approved my GNIB card.

You don't get your passport stamped until the card actually comes, by the way, which takes a week at the absolute minimum if you need it sent from Dublin (they used to allow the immigration official to print them, but no longer). So make sure you don't wait until the last minute.

R.D. aka MR.D

aaabbbb wrote: »

Just wondering if this card is the same as a Stamp 4 which allows your husband to work without a work permit ?

or does the card come first and then the stamp allowing you to work after ?

Reason I'm asking is because I have an Irish family member who wants to return home here with her US husband and 2 kids. However, all the info she can find available online suggests it can take up to a year to acquire a stamp 4 and the ability to work here legally which as her husband is the primary earner in their family makes it not really a viable option to have to wait that long.

But it seems from your experience, if i'm understanding it correctly that it only took you a few weeks to be able to get the necessary documents/permissions to enable your husband to work here without a work permit ?

If she is an irish citizen then he has an automatic right to the stamp 4 so once he registers and gets his gnib card then he will be able to work and get his pps number. How long it takes varies. It shouldn't take a year unless it referred to a different dept for investigation but i think that is quite rare.

Speedwell mentioned below that you need the pps to get the gnib, i think that has changed. My guess would be that it changed because the social welfare office have tightened up the pps rules so it would be almost impossible to get everyone registered properly if they needed a pps number. The Gard asked if my husband had a pps number yet and we said no and he just moved on to the next question.

Pro Hoc Vice

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

If she is an irish citizen then he has an automatic right to the stamp 4 so once he registers and gets his gnib card then he will be able to work and get his pps number. How long it takes varies. It shouldn't take a year unless it referred to a different dept for investigation but i think that is quite rare.

Speedwell mentioned below that you need the pps to get the gnib, i think that has changed. My guess would be that it changed because the social welfare office have tightened up the pps rules so it would be almost impossible to get everyone registered properly if they needed a pps number. The Gard asked if my husband had a pps number yet and we said no and he just moved on to the next question.

It is not an automatic right for the spouse of a Irish Citizen. For some it is very quick like for the OP for others it can take longer. There is now guidelines issued by the department which deal with min income and if the person has been in receipt of SW etc.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf/Files/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf

R.D. aka MR.D

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

It is not an automatic right for the spouse of a Irish Citizen. For some it is very quick like for the OP for others it can take longer. There is now guidelines issued by the department which deal with min income and if the person has been in receipt of SW etc.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf/Files/Family%20Reunification%20Policy%20Document.pdf

I see that was published in 2013. It's interesting because my experience in 2016 does not reflect the information contained in that document.

I am an Irish citizen sponsoring my non-visa required spouse. I was never once asked any details of my income or otherwise (I haven't earned money in Ireland since 2012). In fact, the gard told me that because we are married my husband gets one free year(pretty much no questions asked) and as long as my husband can prove next year that he was either paying tax or engaging with social welfare, he will have no problems with renewal.

Maybe it is a case of there being no clear policy. This information from the citizens advice states that spouses of Irish citizens will obtain a stamp 4: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html. There is no mention of min income etc. It might be a case of there being a law but in practice it isn't followed very often?

Pro Hoc Vice

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I see that was published in 2013. It's interesting because my experience in 2016 does not reflect the information contained in that document.

I am an Irish citizen sponsoring my non-visa required spouse. I was never once asked any details of my income or otherwise (I haven't earned money in Ireland since 2012). In fact, the gard told me that because we are married my husband gets one free year(pretty much no questions asked) and as long as my husband can prove next year that he was either paying tax or engaging with social welfare, he will have no problems with renewal.

Maybe it is a case of there being no clear policy. This information from the citizens advice states that spouses of Irish citizens will obtain a stamp 4: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html. There is no mention of min income etc. It might be a case of there being a law but in practice it isn't followed very often?

It depends on if the spouse is visa required.

Pumpkinpatch

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Hi all,

I thought I'd post my experience here because when I was still away, I was having a hard time finding information. So, my husband is an American (US citizen).

We got married in Vegas and about 10days later we entered Ireland. I was expecting a big fuss at immigration in Dublin but I went up with him and said that I'm Irish and he's my husband and we're planning on moving here. The immigration officer stamped his passport, chit chatted with us for a bit and gave us a little slip with info that we had to register at the Garda station. Very simple and straight forward.

Next day, we went to the Garda station. Turns out that the immigration gard there is incredibly busy! So we had to wait a week to get an appointment. I'd advise anyone going down that route to ring well in advance and make an appointment because the appointment we got was actually a cancellation, otherwise we would have had to wait 3 weeks.

A week later, we went to the garda station. He took our passports and marriage certificate. He typed a bunch of info into the computer and then took my husbands fingerprints. He told us the card would come in a week or 2.

3 weeks later!!!!!! We were able to pick up the card. It was kind of annoying that it took so long and the communication wasn't very clear but I understand that at my local garda station they seem to be extremely busy.

Next we wanted to get his pps number. That was a nightmare and half because the woman was so damn rude and I know if my husband had gone on his own, she would have bullied him out of getting one. But I persevered and had an answer for every single thing she tried to nitpick about. So basically, you need to be super prepared and assertive.

I also had a a hard time but before even getting married, there was a legislation due to a lot of sham marriages and it was just exhausting, couldn't even enjoy the pre-planning of my wedding, but that's a whole other story.

About the GNIB I didn't have a lot of hassle to be honest, the Garda officer was very nice and got my card like 2 weeks afterwards. Got issued with the stamp 4 as spouse of an irish national so i am able (in theory) to work. But it's been so tough, I arrived in Ireland with my now husband in November 2015, got married just after new years, and STILL can't find any job, nor can I apply for the jobs seekers cuz i was told that "i don't need it, as my husband works" so, I got sick a couple f weeks ago and went to a clinic, got tests one and all that and the receptionist asked me for my PPSN, which I do not have, so she told me that if i got a specific test done (which i had done by other GP back in january) I should have a PPSN already but I do not think so. Anyway, Basically I want to get my PPSN, I got an appointment for that but I need a proof as to why i need the PPSN , is so frustrating, i understand about the whole migratory crisis and stuff, but seriously, is so so frustrating. Any tips? I am very scared i can't get the PPSN

R.D. aka MR.D

Pumpkinpatch wrote: »

I also had a a hard time but before even getting married, there was a legislation due to a lot of sham marriages and it was just exhausting, couldn't even enjoy the pre-planning of my wedding, but that's a whole other story.

About the GNIB I didn't have a lot of hassle to be honest, the Garda officer was very nice and got my card like 2 weeks afterwards. Got issued with the stamp 4 as spouse of an irish national so i am able (in theory) to work. But it's been so tough, I arrived in Ireland with my now husband in November 2015, got married just after new years, and STILL can't find any job, nor can I apply for the jobs seekers cuz i was told that "i don't need it, as my husband works" so, I got sick a couple f weeks ago and went to a clinic, got tests one and all that and the receptionist asked me for my PPSN, which I do not have, so she told me that if i got a specific test done (which i had done by other GP back in january) I should have a PPSN already but I do not think so. Anyway, Basically I want to get my PPSN, I got an appointment for that but I need a proof as to why i need the PPSN , is so frustrating, i understand about the whole migratory crisis and stuff, but seriously, is so so frustrating. Any tips? I am very scared i can't get the PPSN

Is it a receptionist at a GP's office? You could ask them for a letter stating that you need your PPSN for medical treatment. Or you can do what we did and state that you need a theory test and fill in the form and bring it with you along with an email/letter from that service stating that they don't give letters about needing pps numbers.
One of your best bets if you can't get the letter from the doctor is have an Irish family member go in with you and just keep at them to see why they won't give you a pps number for medical treatment 'what's she supposed to do, blah blah blah'.

minnow

I've been through immigration procedures with my non-EU wife in several European countries (including UK) and Ireland. I can honestly say that the Irish system is no more bureaucratic or difficult than any other country. Sure the authorities require various bits of paper, same everywhere....