How much do we respect a culture if it demeans others

Permabear

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joe40

@ permabear

The Racism and abuse that you have described happening to people in Ireland is horrible and abhorrent. No one can say it does not happen and is not far too widespread.

However no one that I know off has tried to condone racism in Ireland by saying it is part of "Irish culture" therefore we have a right to hold these views.

There are nasty people in every society therefore nasty things can happen. Irish society and culture is no different,

This thread however is about the fact that some people feel that one's culture or belief system should shield them from criticism.

I think this is approach is fundamentally flawed. I don't have any easy answers and I accept it is difficult to resolve issues in a legalistic manner. But I refuse to subscribe to the notion that discriminatory behaviour should be tolerated and protected since this behaviour has a cultural background. Cultures and societies are human constructs which can and should evolve to become fair and just for all people.

jackofalltrades

steddyeddy wrote: »

Hey TTG I did actually detail the conversation in an earlier post. I'll try and find it.
In the meantime the Sri Lankan side was been quite demeaning to a canteen working of lower caste to us.
When challenged he used his culture as an excuse and tried to tell us we wouldn't understand.

It's not a question of finding someone from that culture and lambasting them for it.
It's a matter of the right to challenge a belief when it's presented to you.

In that situation it's perfectly fine to call him on what he's saying.
Using his culture as an excuse or saying you wouldn't understand is nonsense.

That said these kind of discussions are always risky in a work environment.
He could easily make a complaint about you if challenged.
Telling your supervisor is probably the best thing to do.

Permabear

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DEFTLEFTHAND

TheExile1878 wrote: »

It's a College, one of the students found it offensive.

Again, I didnt ask him to come to my country. Also, he didnt approach me directly as "woman are not right to be spone to". Whatever the f*** that means!

Seek out the individual who made the complaint and formally report him to the college authorities.

Afaik There are now diversity courses available for people who suffer from Christianophobia.

joe40

Permabear wrote: »

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Maybe not explicitly. However, there's no denying that the insular vision of Irish identity promoted for decades by the new independent state was an exclusively Catholic and Gaelic one, and that it explicitly fomented hostility to outsiders. I would regard the negative response to immigrants from the mid-1990s onward as stemming from a culture partly shaped by that vision.




.[/quote]
I agree 100% but that is why certain certain beliefs and atitudes within cultures should be challenged and held to account. Irish society is by no means perfect but we have reflected on certain aspects of our culture over the years and many things have changed for the better. There is still racism, sexism and plenty of other negative things in our society but they are been challenged daily.
I also have a major problem with your assertion that a persons beliefs are somhow sacrosanct and not open to challenge so long as their actions are not harmful.
A person promoting hateful harmful beliefs can incite and cause harmful actions, whether carried out by themselves or others. I agree no one can control my thoughts but giving voice to harmful beliefs can and does cause harmful actions to occur.

osarusan

joe40 wrote: »

A person promoting hateful harmful beliefs can incite and cause harmful actions, whether carried out by themselves or others. I agree no one can control my thoughts but giving voice to harmful beliefs can and does cause harmful actions to occur.

This is exactly where the distinction between belief and action becomes relevant - the promotion of/giving voice to the beliefs is the action, and is the issue.

I disagree with Permabear in that I think even the expression of beliefs could cause a problem in a workplace - a person saying that due to religious reasons they would never work with a gay person, for example, could very possibly impact on their ability to perform their job fully - so I think that even the expression of those beliefs could cause a problem which needs to be dealt with.

Permabear is right to say that challenging somebody could breed an ugly and counter-productive work environment, but so could a person stating that they think a certain group of people are inferior or whatever.

But even then, dealing with the issue would not entail telling somebody that they can't/shouldn't believe that, it would entail telling them that they have to be professional and work with whoever they need to work with, and that their religious principles won't be grounds for exemption.

K-9

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Well then what's the op/title thread about?
What about someone's beliefs infringing on our culture?
It's not acceptable for somebody (I don't care who they are) to partake in civilised society with their faces covered up. This is the culture of this country. So why is that being challenged?

I imagine eddy just wanted a discussion on it!

Permabear

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stefanovich

wes wrote:

Also, again very few Women actually cover there faces. Its hardly worth bothering with.

Could be a man strapped with explosives too. Who knows. Try walking into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on and see what happens. Same thing.

ScumLord

TheExile1878 wrote: »

My question is - when do we get to keep our own culture and make visitors park theirs and the door and go on that ridiculous training ?

What's our culture? Do we need to be out in the fields wearing tweed while munching on a potato? Culture adapts and changes. If people never accepted different cultures you wouldn't be Christian.

I also don't see this as a Christian country, so you're culture doesn't represent the actual culture of the country, the desired culture of the country or a practical culture for the country.