Calling for a NO to TUI ballot

deiseindublin

Thought TUI needs it's own thread, getting confusing with the Yes Vs No discussion on the ASTI one.

Anyway, TUI have managed another own goal and decided to recommend a yes to this pile of crap.

Please, canvass the highways and byways, get on FB, get on Twitter, get around your staffroom, canvass everybody that has a vote and make sure this doesn't get through.

http://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/Final%20TUI%20DES%20document%20090516.pdf

maude6868

I'm ASTI but hoping all teachers can stand up to the bullies and reject CP hours. The talks with TUI only prove one thing, they have nothing to offer and will promise reviews and more talks etc, confident in their belief that teachers are a soft target and will always do as they are told/advised. We have been sheepish for far too long. Delighted with the ASTI, proud member today when I received the text to vote yes in light of DES unprecedented interference.

deiseindublin

It's totally soul destroying being a TUI member, totally agree with you on standing up to the bullying, hopefully our membership will face this down once and for all.

mirrorwall14

I'm going to my branch meeting this week. Please get yourselves there everyone by hook or by crook. This has to be fought, it is an absolute farce of a document by the TUI

The_Valeyard

Who are the TUI representing ? Teachers or their government friends.

TheDriver

Count me in......disgraceful! Assume Sean o foghlu sat in on those meetings?

deiseindublin

I'm actually baffled that they spent 2 months negotiating this. Also, don't like that they've rolled a few bits of 2nd & 3rd level together in one ballot. Surely they need to be separated?

How do they think they'll sell this to the members?

mirrorwall14

Just received the email as school rep. On rereading I'm still flabbergasted, the whole document is full of bull**** of the highest order

For the ward report 'the parties commit to immediately commencing discussion',

for the posts of responsibility 'robust review' before 'budget 2017',

for croke park hours 'review of the usage of hours' for 2017/2018,

for data management 'commits to examining..'

And for new entrant pay it didn't form part of the negotiation??!

The only thing that has any form of clarity is inspections but sure that was never an issue to do with the LRA at all

Why on earth would second level teachers accept this? It's is complete waffle? There's nothing in it!

And I have a huge problem with the scaremongering wording of

'This special edition will set out the significant consequences both of accepting/not accepting the proposed' agreement

I'll bet my hat that magazine will be just as threatening as the recent department circular

deiseindublin

Martin Marjoram for President might be a start to getting rid of the deadwood, he sounds like he's willing to put his back into it.
http://tui.ie/_fileupload/TUI%20Presidential%20ballot%20candidate%20Martin.pdf

I'm honestly pissing laughing at Joanne Irwin's list of what she thinks she did as VP. Campaigned against LRA? They've basically recommended an LRA2 without naming it as such.
http://tui.ie/_fileupload/TUI%20Presidential%20ballot%20candidate%20Joanne.pdf

mirrorwall14

deiseindublin wrote: »

Martin Marjoram for President might be a start to getting rid of the deadwood, he sounds like he's willing to put his back into it.
http://tui.ie/_fileupload/TUI%20Presidential%20ballot%20candidate%20Martin.pdf

I'm honestly pissing laughing at Joanne Irwin's list of what she thinks she did as VP. Campaigned against LRA? They've basically recommended an LRA2 without naming it as such.
http://tui.ie/_fileupload/TUI%20Presidential%20ballot%20candidate%20Joanne.pdf

I'm very confused by the pair of them. He's campaigning saying he's the only classroom teacher. Her literature says she is the only second level candidate. Is he being disingenuous? Never really heard of a third level lecturer referring to it as being 'in the classroom'

deiseindublin

Is she seconded full time in her VP role? Maybe that's the angle.

mirrorwall14

Maybe. But he's a classroom teacher? What does that mean?

deiseindublin

He's still educating each day, with real life students in front of him? Not qualified as a teacher, but no longer teaching.

deiseindublin

Was there much talk of this in TUI staff rooms today? Anybody I spoke to was appalled by document, after the shell shock wore off.

man_no_plan

deiseindublin wrote: »

Was there much talk of this in TUI staff rooms today? Anybody I spoke to was appalled by document, after the shell shock wore off.

Not a word, they didn't even know who the new minister was

deiseindublin

In fairness, only 1 person in my staffroom had read doc but anybody that I told of the endless list of future tense 'review' verbs were horrified and up for the NO vote.

My mantra is to not even read the fine print, basically we need to call for:
* NO in LRA2 ballot
* Marjorum in Presidential ballot.

Also, I think it's important that we have immediate school based union meetings BEFORE the TUI propoganda/scaremongering literature comes out.

evolving_doors

I think what the TUI Secondary school members should take account of is the oft forgotten Institute of Technologies factor.
Consider all the extra hours that the IT crowd had to actually lecture (not BS meetings), and of course all the workload that comes with those modules.
So you can see why they might be signing up to the proposal below.

"it is agreed that an interim measure will be introduced from January 2017 to re designate half of the additional flex hours required of each lecturer to wide duties other than teaching, in consultation with the lecturers and in accordance with Institute priorities and needs. "

Now go and look at what is on offer for the Secondary teachers.... Review of Croke Park hours and, wait for it..... a "robust review" on management structures.

Does anyone know what the make-up of the membership is in the TUI (Between FE, Secondary, IT's etc)? If the numbers in secondary aren't sufficient then 'rallying the troops' in a Secondary TUI staffroom might be fruitless.

That's my reading of it anyway, I'm open to correction if I've misunderstood the IT's offer.

deiseindublin

That's why I didn't think it was fair to roll it all into one ballot, we all have different conditions and improvements we're fighting for.

The_Valeyard

deiseindublin wrote: »

Was there much talk of this in TUI staff rooms today? Anybody I spoke to was appalled by document, after the shell shock wore off.

Lot of laughing and bemusement at it. Its nothing. Just kick the can down the road.

deiseindublin

Talking to another few today and lots of them not even aware of it.

Darwin

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think what the TUI Secondary school members should take account of is the oft forgotten Institute of Technologies factor.
Consider all the extra hours that the IT crowd had to actually lecture (not BS meetings), and of course all the workload that comes with those modules.
So you can see why they might be signing up to the proposal below.


Now go and look at what is on offer for the Secondary teachers.... Review of Croke Park hours and, wait for it..... a "robust review" on management structures.

Does anyone know what the make-up of the membership is in the TUI (Between FE, Secondary, IT's etc)? If the numbers in secondary aren't sufficient then 'rallying the troops' in a Secondary TUI staffroom might be fruitless.

That's my reading of it anyway, I'm open to correction if I've misunderstood the IT's offer.

I'm an IoT lecturer and there is no way me or any people I know would vote for continuation of these insidious and absolutely hated flex hours beyond the end of the current agreement. Having said that I am long in the job and it is likely that they will divide and conquer again by offering something (conversion to CIDs, restoration of pay?) to staff at the beginning of their career to get a new agreement over the line. I believe there are also vastly greater numbers of TUI members at second level than third level. Yes there should definitely be separate ballots on second and third level issues.

mirrorwall14

Darwin wrote: »

I'm an IoT lecturer and there is no way me or any people I know would vote for continuation of these insidious and absolutely hated flex hours beyond the end of the current agreement. Having said that I am long in the job and it is likely that they will divide and conquer again by offering something (conversion to CIDs, restoration of pay?) to staff at the beginning of their career to get a new agreement over the line. I believe there are also vastly greater numbers of TUI members at second level than third level. Yes there should definitely be separate ballots on second and third level issues.

Great to hear that Third level feel the same was as us!

deiseindublin

The problem isn't those posting on Boards though, be they 2nd or 3rd level, the problem is the other 95% that don't even bother their arses reading the literature and then might or might not vote on the day. If they do, they'll likely vote with the union recommendation and vote in the VP while they're at it.

gaiscioch

Regarding the date of the TUI ballot, I quote from the TUI website, Monday 9 May 2016:

A ballot of members on this proposed agreement will take place before the end of May with ballot papers issuing next week.

deiseindublin

I'm getting more annoyed every time I reread the TUI agreement. Why do they fudge it so much that we're re-voting on LRA, even though we rejected it emphatically, over 90% from memory.

Effectively, acceptance of the proposed agreement would mean that TUI members would continue to co-operate with and not to repudiate the relevant collective agreements. The Haddington Road Agreement (HRA) expires on 30th June 2016. Therefore, from 1st July 2016, the only relevant collective agreement that will apply will be the LRA.

In summary, if the proposal is accepted, TUI members will be covered by the LRA from 1st July 2016.

acequion

In summary, if the proposal is accepted, TUI members will be covered by the LRA from 1st July 2016.

Trying to force ye in through the back door,it would seem. Disgraceful carry on by a union especially when that agreement has already been resoundingly rejected by the members.

Ye absolutely have to fling that back in their faces!

deiseindublin

I know, it's unbelievable that there was a 92% rejection and they're trying to re-brand it as 'an agreement' without mentioning the fact that we're actually reballoting LRA.

man_no_plan

Report on fixed term employment in Third Level - may have an impact on opinions.

Darwin

We (@third level) have a branch meeting next week, will be interesting to see what the wider membership make of it. Speaking to colleagues at coffee, people could not believe we were being re-balloted on something that has already been emphatically rejected so some hope I guess.

evolving_doors

Darwin wrote: »

We (@third level) have a branch meeting next week, will be interesting to see what the wider membership make of it. Speaking to colleagues at coffee, people could not believe we were being re-balloted on something that has already been emphatically rejected so some hope I guess.

Tell em hold firm and Croke Park will fall. Cave in and it'll be like trying to get the milk back out of your tea.

TheDriver

But they have promised things.....and this Govt have always kept their promises......