Calling for a NO to TUI ballot

LaLa2004

I work in a large school where the TUI was by far in the majority 10 years ago. However the ASTI membership has grown hugely in recent years, with new recruits choosing ASTI over the TUI.
Many of the rest of us would move if the chance arose.

deiseindublin

Fightback have a great post on their fb page about leaving TUI and chances of joining ASTI if they left ICTU.

Think we're going to have to do somdthing.

footrush

km79 wrote: »

footrush wrote: »

Its a democratic process why can't people accept it ?.

absolutely .........hopefully the govt will accept the ASTI memberships decision to reject so with it being a democracy and all
A democracy where we keep getting sent back and threatened until we vote the right way!
The govt interfered with the democratic process for these votes with their carefully timed threats

Couldn't agree more am an ASTI member who voted against but was prepared to accept the outcome either way. Under no circumstances should we allow ASTI members to join the TUI just because they want to be in a Union that wants to tow the government line therefor neither can we accept those who don't agree with the majority in their Union, just because a vote doesn't go your way doesn't mean you should be able to jump the fence ?.

mirrorwall14

My school voted overwhelmingly against and were very vocal about it. Its so hard to judge because you don't hear the "yes" people out there. From that facebook post the 3rd level are blaming us this time. Its too easy to split us up having so many different types in the one union, 2nd level teachers, 2nd level management, FETAC, All of the different 3rd levels, PLC, youthreach-you name it-its ridiculous!

footrush

Have to listen on a regular basis for the last number of years to ASTI staff members complaining that because of the dispute the can't join the more conciliatory and reasonable TUI just because they disagree with the majority vote, under no circumstances should people be able to change Unions when one party is in dispute. Those members of the ASTI who don't want to accept the democratic outcome of our vote and the potential conflict that it may bring should under no circumstances be allowed to take the softer TUI option. Thats what I mean by accepting Democratic process . Every time I hear the words TUI from these people its always accompanied by the phrase "voice of reason" we will hear this on the news and in the press tomorrow, IBEC will praise the sensible members of the TUI and use the vote as a stick to beat us with but under no circumstances should ASTI members be allowed to jump ship to the softer option.

footrush

Its already started Connor Pope on TV3 the ASTI should accept the private sector job insecurity reality just as the TUI have. The race to the bottom continues, wonder how long it will take IBEC to pat the TUI on the head for doing its business this morning ?. Its going to be an entire day of the "voice of reason" TUI membership vote being used to threaten the "increasing isolated" ASTI deviants.

RealJohn

Once again, we see why there needs to be one, single, secondary teachers' union. The TUI just doesn't function properly trying to represent two groups, each wit different requirements. It also weakens the ASTI because it divides the power of secondary teachers in industrial 'agreements', allowing the government to put more pressure on one group (usually the ASTI) because of what the other group has voted for.

I accept that the result of the TUI ballot was democratic (even though I voted no, as did many of my colleagues). We Irish are far better at doing what we're told by vocal minorities when it comes to how we vote than we are at doing our own investigations and voting for what we actually think is right, as evidenced by recent elections and referenda. I don't accept that it's necessarily representative of either the teachers or the lecturers of the TUI though and I don't accept that the TUI hierarchy were in a position to advise the membership since they had to give the same message to all members on an 'agreement' that was different, depending on what sector you are working in.

The TUI needs to be done away with. The current situation isn't good enough.

acequion

footrush wrote: »

Have to listen on a regular basis for the last number of years to ASTI staff members complaining that because of the dispute the can't join the more conciliatory and reasonable TUI just because they disagree with the majority vote, under no circumstances should people be able to change Unions when one party is in dispute. Those members of the ASTI who don't want to accept the democratic outcome of our vote and the potential conflict that it may bring should under no circumstances be allowed to take the softer TUI option. Thats what I mean by accepting Democratic process . Every time I hear the words TUI from these people its always accompanied by the phrase "voice of reason" we will hear this on the news and in the press tomorrow, IBEC will praise the sensible members of the TUI and use the vote as a stick to beat us with but under no circumstances should ASTI members be allowed to jump ship to the softer option.

Can you not see how contradictory you are being? On the one hand you clearly favour the "conciliatory and reasonable" TUI, yet on the other hand you take an extremely intransigent stance on changing unions!

"Conciliatory and reasonable" are big time euphemisms for cowardly and meek at best, Government accommodating at worst. Can you not see that these continuing "agreements"only serve to worsen teacher pay and conditions and people pay a union to protect those very conditions,not to constantly cave in to demands and bullying?

And as for all this talk about "democracy" Democracy also means choice and options. There are many TUI members feeling seriously betrayed and they want to join a union which they feel represents their voice. And they should have the option to do just that.And if that also means ASTI people wanting to jump ship to TUI, so be it. Like everyone else I would prefer to see one union but in the mean time some real democracy, some real choices instead of constant bullying,scaremongering and repeating ballots until people become "reasonable" would be a breath of fresh air.

acequion

RealJohn wrote: »

The TUI needs to be done away with. The current situation isn't good enough.

Yes,completely agree with this. Personally,I would love to see the end of the TUI and let the ASTI be exactly what it stands for,secondary teachers of Ireland. The third level need their own union or let the TUI morph into something which represents them and only them.

The fightback facebook post on this is excellent. With enough momentum and determination it could well happen.

acequion

Link to latest fightback post on the need for one union: https://www.facebook.com/a.fightback/

footrush

acequion wrote: »

footrush wrote: »

Have to listen on a regular basis for the last number of years to ASTI staff members complaining that because of the dispute the can't join the more conciliatory and reasonable TUI just because they disagree with the majority vote, under no circumstances should people be able to change Unions when one party is in dispute. Those members of the ASTI who don't want to accept the democratic outcome of our vote and the potential conflict that it may bring should under no circumstances be allowed to take the softer TUI option. Thats what I mean by accepting Democratic process . Every time I hear the words TUI from these people its always accompanied by the phrase "voice of reason" we will hear this on the news and in the press tomorrow, IBEC will praise the sensible members of the TUI and use the vote as a stick to beat us with but under no circumstances should ASTI members be allowed to jump ship to the softer option.

Can you not see how contradictory you are being? On the one hand you clearly favour the "conciliatory and reasonable" TUI, yet on the other hand you take an extremely intransigent stance on changing unions!

"Conciliatory and reasonable" are big time euphemisms for cowardly and meek at best, Government accommodating at worst. Can you not see that these continuing "agreements"only serve to worsen teacher pay and conditions and people pay a union to protect those very conditions,not to constantly cave in to demands and bullying?

And as for all this talk about "democracy" Democracy also means choice and options. There are many TUI members feeling seriously betrayed and they want to join a union which they feel represents their voice. And they should have the option to do just that.And if that also means ASTI people wanting to jump ship to TUI, so be it. Like everyone else I would prefer to see one union but in the mean time some real democracy, some real choices instead of constant bullying,scaremongering and repeating ballots until people become "reasonable" would be a breath of fresh air.

My use of the terms " conciliatory and reasonable " was purely ironic I assure you perhaps if you replace the term with " lap dogs" it might make more sense. Under no circumstances should you be allowed change Unions during a dispute as that would allow those ASTI members who want pick up their 30 pieces of silver the chance to join your Union. What Im saying if you take the time to read the post is that Democracy means abiding by the result. You as members of the TUI are entitled to be model citizens in this process I am more concerned about ASTI members trying to jump ship and take the softer path that you have chosen. Please read the post before you misrepresent what I have said.

acequion

footrush wrote: »

My use of the terms " conciliatory and reasonable " was purely ironic I assure you perhaps if you replace the term with " lap dogs" it might make more sense. Under no circumstances should you be allowed change Unions during a dispute as that would allow those ASTI members who want pick up their 30 pieces of silver the chance to join your Union. What Im saying if you take the time to read the post is that Democracy means abiding by the result. You as members of the TUI are entitled to be model citizens in this process I am more concerned about ASTI members trying to jump ship and take the softer path that you have chosen. Please read the post before you misrepresent what I have said.

Ok,hands up,fair enough. I've been rushing around all morning and only quickly read the posts,but in my defence I will say that you're not very clear about which side you're on and did you not already tell us that you voted no in the recent ASTI ballot?

And by the way,I'm ASTI,not TUI,a thousand times thank god!!!

But while I see your point about there being ASTI people wanting to jump ship for the 30 pieces of silver and unfortunately there will be several of that sort too, I still feel that the time has come where either set of members should be able to choose which union to join regardless of disputes, or else and preferably, for the unions to merge. In theory,fine it's not democratic to be jumping ship etc etc but there has been little real real democracy of recent years so desperate times may call for desperate action. Something will have to happen or else we may as well all forget about being unionised.

footrush

No prob maybe a once off exchange of members might be possible, those who disagree can swap, this could only be once off however otherwise there would be chaos every time there is a result some members don't like. Ps I really didn't mean to accuse you of being in the TUI I should have checked my facts before slinging mud at you.

acequion

footrush wrote: »

No prob maybe a once off exchange of members might be possible, those who disagree can swap, this could only be once off however otherwise there would be chaos every time there is a result some members don't like. Ps I really didn't mean to accuse you of being in the TUI I should have checked my facts before slinging mud at you.

You're grand.:pac: I'm actually laughing at the idea of being "accused" of being TUI. I could be accused of worse,I guess but ya they're pretty much the poor relation at the moment,lol