My friends are being bullied at work

denver62002

Hello. 3 of my polish friends are being bullied at work for no reason other than what they feel is because they are polish. They have been working for the last 8 to 9 years wothout any problems.. management changed in the last 2 years and since then all the foreigners were either sacked or found problems with their work and were constantly dragged into disciplinaries, meetings , job chats and so on. Most of them quit because they were sick and tired of being treated like ****. These 3 people have family Kids and other commitments and are not willing to be bullied out and are the only foreigners working out of the 40 staff. Is there any place where they/we can get any advise about this? We tried citizens information. Employment rights etc and no one is giving any answers other than it need to be sorted with employers and they are not in liberty to do so. Should we go to a lawyer? If so what can the solicitor do to sort this out? Any help or information would be greatly appreciated.. I feel disgusted listening to their stories from work and i really really want to help them. One of is so depressed that she is constantly crying when talk abt that workplace. What should they do? Please help!!!

wally1990

This is from
HSA.ie


Gathering evidence

Once you have formed the opinion that you are being bullied, keep copies of any relevant materials (notes, emails etc)

Then seek out your organisation’s Anti Bullying Policy and follow its guidelines.

Report the matter to someone in a HR or management position or to a Contact Person, if these exist within your workplace.
The matter should be dealt with as early as possible so hostilities don’t grow, and preferably at first it should be dealt with informally, with the aim or resolving and stopping the activities, and moving on.
If this is not successful, mediation may be required. While both parties must agree in order for any mediation to be successful, it is a very important step and should not be dismissed out of hand. Skilled professional mediation should be used.
Finally, if other attempts to satisfy the situation fail, a formal investigation of the facts may be required. Guidance for investigations can be found in our Code of Practice for Employers and Employees on the Prevention and Resolution of Bullying at Work 2007 (1MB opens in new window)
Alternatively, or simultaneously, you can seek advice by contacting the following:

(1) The Workplace Contact Unit at the HSA: Telephone: 1890 289 389 or email: wcu@hsa.ie

If the problem at your workplace is the lack of an adequate policy on bullying you may register a complaint with our Workplace Contact Unit. When we get it, we will contact your employer by letter asking for their anti-bullying policy. We will send this to you. This can be done without your employer knowing who you are.

You can see for yourself, then the procedures in the policy and raise your particular problem with your employer. The policy should provide for prompt, fair, confidential and effective resolution.

The HSA is not in a position to get involved in mediating or investigating your bullying complaint but we can use our statutory powers to ensure that:

A suitable policy is in place
Complaints are investigated in accordance with the terms set out in the policy, in line with the Duty of Care of employers with regard to Section 8 2. A and b of the 2005 Act.(link to section please)
(2) Labour Relations Commission
Tel: (01) 613 6700 or Lo-Call: 1890 220227

A number of individual bullying grievances have been dealt with through mediation by the Advisory Development and Research Services over the past number of years.

Rights Commissioners also deal with such disputes – they are independent adjudicators and they investigate disputes referred to them by individuals or small groups of workers under specific legislation. Their findings are issued to the parties in the form of non-binding recommendations. This service deals with the vast majority of issues around bullying.

If you feel that, because you raised a bullying issue, you are then penalised at work, you should take this matter, through Section 27 of the HS&W at Work Act 2005, to the RC service.

(3) Dept Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation
Tel: (01) 631 3131

Contact the Employment Rights Information Unit for information on employment legislation on 1890 80 80 90or email them at info@employmentrights.ie

In the case of a possible unfair dismissal,(including Constructive Dismissal) this information would include informing the person where to go to receive advice (e.g. a Citizen's Information Centre or a solicitor) and also information on how to take a case either to a Rights Commissioner or to the Employment Appeals Tribunal (EAT)

(4) The Equality Authority Tel: (01) 4173333 or Lo-Call: 1890 245545

The Equality Authority is an independent body set up under the Employment Equality Act 1998.

The Employment Equality Act, 1998 and the Equal Status Act, 2000 outlaw discrimination in employment, vocational training, advertising, collective agreements, the provision of goods and services and other opportunities to which the public generally have access on nine distinct grounds.

Gender
Marital status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age
Disability
Race
Membership of the traveller community
Accidents and Behaviour

tricky D

Moved to Work Problems for better answers

Peter Anthony

For some reason many people in management or positions of authority in this country "style" of management consists of bullying and treating people like dirt. Has happened me and in that case it was the owner a real POS so nothing could be done, I ended up quitting. I cant give any advice out from that but life is too short to work in such a toxic environment.

If its a good job, possibly try get a reference and leave if they can get in anywhere else. My previous job was awful, and had many other problems so it was an easy decision for me.

Peter Anthony

Peter Anthony wrote: »

For some reason many people in management or positions of authority in this country "style" of management consists of bullying and treating people like dirt.

It's comical isn't it? I just can't understand taking on someone and then trying to destroy their self esteem!! Do they think it makes you a better employee? It's madness.

I remember my first job as a petrol pump attendant and no matter how good my work was or how hard I worked I got abuse and grief from the boss. Talk about demoralising.

Mrs OBumble

Some information and links here: http://www.integration.ie/website/omi/omiwebv6.nsf/page/Racism-RacistIncidentsEqualityTribunal-en

_Brian

Anything you/they will do will be based on proof.
They will need proof they are being poorly treated compared to other workers. This can be hard as while they have access to their own situations they haven't access to other employees details.

I'd say appeal every unwarranted discipline and warning keeping right track of all conversations and communications. Ask for everything in writing, accept nothing verbally.

It may take time but if it's as you say they should be able to gather evidence. Also keep in touch with those who have left of possible as their accounts may prove useful in the future.

Mrs OBumble

Is this a large company, in which the actions of local management are unlikely to be acceptable to the overall management?

Or is it more of a SME with local management accountable to no one but themselves?

If the latter, then realistically their chances of getting the problems stopped are low. They might take an equality claim, and be awarded compensation. But actually getting the cash from these can be slow. And it still won't change the underlying management attitudes. Instead it will drive them underground, so the harassment will be more subtle but no less troublesome. In this case, I would advise finding another job. I know you've said they have families etc so cannot just leave. But people with families find new jobs all the time - your friends can do this too.

denver62002

_Brian wrote: »

Anything you/they will do will be based on proof.
They will need proof they are being poorly treated compared to other workers. This can be hard as while they have access to their own situations they haven't access to other employees details.

I'd say appeal every unwarranted discipline and warning keeping right track of all conversations and communications. Ask for everything in writing, accept nothing verbally.

It may take time but if it's as you say they should be able to gather evidence. Also keep in touch with those who have left of possible as their accounts may prove useful in the future.

One of them was given a disciplinary few months back and was not paid for 2 or 3 days for being sick on the basis of the company procedure for absence from work. She always records the hours that she works on her diary and when she went back and checked the dates they claimed she was off "without permission" last year, turns out she was on paid holiday. When she questioned this with management they withdrew the disciplinary and an apology was given to her. What if she had no record of the hours she worked with her - it would have been a completely different story then.

denver62002

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Is this a large company, in which the actions of local management are unlikely to be acceptable to the overall management?

Or is it more of a SME with local management accountable to no one but themselves?

If the latter, then realistically their chances of getting the problems stopped are low. They might take an equality claim, and be awarded compensation. But actually getting the cash from these can be slow. And it still won't change the underlying management attitudes. Instead it will drive them underground, so the harassment will be more subtle but no less troublesome. In this case, I would advise finding another job. I know you've said they have families etc so cannot just leave. But people with families find new jobs all the time - your friends can do this too.

This a big MNC and it is the middle managers that are having a problem. This company had been sued by others in the past over HR issues and 2 or 3 people have got like 30K each or so after winning the case, so this company is not so squeaky clean when it comes to HR.

It is not the point of getting the cash from the company or suing the company. The point is they are being treated different from the rest of the crowd. Working for this company has its perks, probably similar to large companies like working for Google, eBay and other MNC's etc when it comes to pay, facilities, allowances etc so thats one of the reasons they dont want to leave and not only just family. Also they live like minutes away from the place and they can pick up kids after works and things like that. Why should they leave if they have been working for years with no problem and only 2 or 3 of their managers and supervisors have a problem with them. There are other managers there who have other foreign staff working in different departments and other sections of workers so after spending such a long time for the business, putting their 150% for the company, there is no need for them to look for another job, it is the newbies on a power trip that need to chillax IMO.

Mrs OBumble

Right, so if it's an MNC they have options.

They need to keep specific records of all issues. Take notes. But keep them off-site.

Read the grievance procedure sections of their contracts and HR policies. Figure out how to lodge an official compaint, and do so.

If there is an HR department, then HR are likely to be well aware of the problem (they'll have noticed the trend of foreigners leaving) and just waiting for someone to complain, so they can put the manager/supervisor on a performance-improvement plan. Then HR have to sit back and give the manager a chance to show they have imroved their performance. So it will look like HR are doing nothing. But what is needed is a fundamental shift in the manager/supervisor's attitudes - this won't happen quickly, if it happens at all.


I agree with you that this isn't fair, and why should they have to change jobs etc. But sometimes life isn't fair, and in cases like these employees have to decide if the hassle of a case is worth the gain. They may get the satisfaction of having the current manager/supervisor replaced - only to find that no other manager in the place is willing to have them. Etc.

denver62002

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Right, so if it's an MNC they have options.

They need to keep specific records of all issues. Take notes. But keep them off-site.

Read the grievance procedure sections of their contracts and HR policies. Figure out how to lodge an official compaint, and do so.

If there is an HR department, then HR are likely to be well aware of the problem (they'll have noticed the trend of foreigners leaving) and just waiting for someone to complain, so they can put the manager/supervisor on a performance-improvement plan. Then HR have to sit back and give the manager a chance to show they have imroved their performance. So it will look like HR are doing nothing. But what is needed is a fundamental shift in the manager/supervisor's attitudes - this won't happen quickly, if it happens at all.


I agree with you that this isn't fair, and why should they have to change jobs etc. But sometimes life isn't fair, and in cases like these employees have to decide if the hassle of a case is worth the gain. They may get the satisfaction of having the current manager/supervisor replaced - only to find that no other manager in the place is willing to have them. Etc.

The problem here is that the HR is aware about their situation. 2 of them have been to HR a couple of times reporting things and they have been ignored and shooed away. Last year there was an incident where one of the girls reported / informed a bullying issue to HR. it was about the supervisor. This girl who reported was helping a manager in another department, that she doesn't even work with, to move a box into the building or something like that and the HR person passed by them and said to the manager "this is the girl I was talking to you about" and they both laughed at her so it is a bit more complicated than it sounds and this doesn't give them confidence to approach management within the organisation.



You are right - I personally advised them its not worth the hassle and to look for another place. That still doesn't change the fact that evil People like these are let to manage people. I wouldn't let them manage a fekin potato let alone people and I am really proud in a way they are trying to stick up for themselves. What if these 3 ladies quit now and lets say 10 years down the line these managers move on to a different company and do the same thing there? and Put more people through the same trauma these ladies are going through now? It sounds like a fairy tale but thats what happens in that company.

dd972

Peter Anthony wrote: »

For some reason many people in management or positions of authority in this country "style" of management consists of bullying and treating people like dirt.

I think this is part of the national psyche where supervisors/managers are concerned, probably something to do with the fact that Irish people were looked down upon for centuries by the British and the WASP's in America, give an Irish person 'status' and they think they're some High King or Queen of Tara, during the hubris and arrogance of the CT years many Irish people deluded themselves that the country had never been poor or people left on mailboats with string tied suitcases.

Mrs OBumble

denver62002 wrote: »

.... and this doesn't give them confidence to approach management within the organisation.


..... I wouldn't let them manage a fekin potato let alone people and I am really proud in a way they are trying to stick up for themselves. What if these 3 ladies quit now and lets say 10 years down the line these managers move on to a different company and do the same thing there?

Unfortunately if they want to make any kind of official complaint, then they have to use the company's internal processes first before taking it external.

It's quite possible that HR are unprofessional - the behaviour that you're describing is less likely in MNCs than in locally owned companies, but still possible.

You're right that these people should not be managing people. And right to be embarrassed that some of our country-people are such nasty a**'s. But unfortunately some are. The people who find themselves on the receiving end basically have three choices: put up with it, leave, or fight back. The last one is very stressful - and there are no guarantees that they will win, even though we both know they're morally in the right. It can be very tough going.

denver62002

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Unfortunately if they want to make any kind of official complaint, then they have to use the company's internal processes first before taking it external.

So basically they are screwed... Im sure the company policy would have a clause where allegations are found not to be true then the employees will have to leave/disciplined or something down that line.

Thanks for all your help Ms Bumble - i will keep you posted with updates.

Shint0

HR are still obliged to act once they are aware of an issue regardless of whether an official complaint has been made as such. It depends on how far they want to take it. Sounds like a toxic environment.

KenjiOdo

Might be hard to gather video evidence without upsetting co-workers, need permission to capture peoples image in private areas. You could use a phone to capture audio though via apps, (dictaphone maybe??)

Once bullying occurs, inform management via email and CC themselves as proof of complaint. Record meetings about complaint. If nothing improves lawyer up & make a case.


Wally1990 made a good post on post #2.

dev100

Mrs OBumble wrote:

Is this a large company, in which the actions of local management are unlikely to be acceptable to the overall management?

As I was told once as long as local management create profit and decrease costs, Top management won't care .

nikkibikki

OP, may I ask, how do they integrate with their co-workers? Do they speak in their own language in work? Do they participate in work place banter about soccer and TV programs and things like that? From my own and many peoples experience of working with a group of people who speak in their own language in the workplace, it is viewed as extremely rude and quite sneaky also in some instances. People who do this will find it hard to be trusted by their coworkers. I understand that they may not be confident enough using English but the only way their English will improve is by speaking it. I would advise them to integrate with their coworkers as much as they can. They may need to have them in their corner. It's often more useful to be part of a team in the workplace.

denver62002

nikkibikki wrote: »

OP, may I ask, how do they integrate with their co-workers? Do they speak in their own language in work? Do they participate in work place banter about soccer and TV programs and things like that? From my own and many peoples experience of working with a group of people who speak in their own language in the workplace, it is viewed as extremely rude and quite sneaky also in some instances. People who do this will find it hard to be trusted by their coworkers. I understand that they may not be confident enough using English but the only way their English will improve is by speaking it. I would advise them to integrate with their coworkers as much as they can. They may need to have them in their corner. It's often more useful to be part of a team in the workplace.

They are grand with their Co Workers. They dont have problems with their co workers what so ever. There has never been an issue with Co workers as far as i know. They get along very well with every one at work and there has never had a problem. I definitely dont think thats the Case.