MAJOR PROBLEM Kerry Group Old Shares

fepper

You'd often hear companies that got fined for similar type breaches and payed huge monetary settlements to central banks,we'd be be rightly screwed then

BannerBarry

Our leaders can do more damage to our holdings assets than any Central Bank could even dream of... the Central Bank may be able to hand out jail terms though

NovemberJersey

What's do ye make of this talk about the patron shares being cancelled + the farmers getting back the 1.25 € nominal value for them so we don't have to pay this tax ?

fepper

From 2011 on I presume,not all the way back to 2000

fepper

People would lose a way more than income tax from it

NovemberJersey

I'm getting so much hassle now from the revenue accountant and you name it there onto me over this, my attitude is they can have the damn shares back at this stage. I'll get on fine without them !

kerry cow

Even at 50% tax people will still be much better off .Some people will be at 25% and others at nil depending on their allowances .so little is better than nothing .say a guy has a 1000 shares worth today 200k .is it fair to cancel them .I think not .
If we end up paying tax so be it and if we don't till the day we sell , then happy days .Let the test case proceed , revenue are happy to test the water , who knows

NovemberJersey

It looks like despite our best efforts we've met an impasse on the road to a conversion. This test case with revenue which is set to happen is the stuff of dreams for anti conversion fellas on the board, it will drag on for about 5 years, the board members will get to keep their bulls--hit jobs leaching off the rest of us. If my memory serves me right it was the Co Op board trying to make themselves look important and going on about 701 tax certs or the lack of one more like that alerted the revenue to all this. I don't know if the Co Op board has many supporters but by the time us 400 suppliers have this €12,000,000 paid in tax I don't think any of us will be calling for the Co Op to hold onto a block of the PLC's shares so that they can "represent us"

kerry cow

I just heard now that there will not be test case and that each farmer will now have to engage revenue on a one to one appeal case .
Your on your own mate .
It looks like flyweight farmer v super heavy weight establishment.

fepper

kerry cow wrote: »

I just heard now that there will not be test case and that each farmer will now have to engage revenue on a one to one appeal case .
Your on your own mate .
It looks like flyweight farmer v super heavy weight establishment.

Hopefully it could be a David v goliath ending!!.....

NovemberJersey

kerry cow wrote: »

I just heard now that there will not be test case and that each farmer will now have to engage revenue on a one to one appeal case .
Your on your own mate .
It looks like flyweight farmer v super heavy weight establishment.

You sure about that because there has been a lot of people saying the test has is and isn't going ahead , hard to tell what is going on At this stage ?

BannerBarry

As I understand it the Test case can only be taking individually by each supplier.
The ruling on one supplier won't apply to all suppliers.

The co op want all Suppliers to Appeal the Notice of Assessment that the revenue will send out.
The process will take 4-5 years in total.
The cost could be €10k per person.

There could be interest and penalties on the original assessment amount if the revenue win along with the costs of the case and assessment amount.

Best case is no tax in 5 years

Worst case could be 10k legal costs
Interest and penalties say 3K
Income tax average 4k

The co op believe that they have a very strong case (And the 28+1 of them will be in jobs for that length of time also ;-) )

fepper

BannerBarry wrote: »

As I understand it the Test case can only be taking individually by each supplier.
The ruling on one supplier won't apply to all suppliers.

The co op want all Suppliers to Appeal the Notice of Assessment that the revenue will send out.
The process will take 4-5 years in total.
The cost could be €10k per person.

There could be interest and penalties on the original assessment amount if the revenue win along with the costs of the case and assessment amount.

Best case is no tax in 5 years

Worst case could be 10k legal costs
Interest and penalties say 3K
Income tax average 4k

The co op believe that they have a very strong case (And the 28+1 of them will be in jobs for that length of time also ;-) )

Will the coop be involved in anyway in these appeals by individual farmers do you think banner

kerry cow

Good point for as long as this saga drags on there will be no conversion end of .
I think it should be fed into our account years as revenue want and if a appeal is successful then a rebate could be sought.

NovemberJersey

Incase anyone didn't read my post above I'd like to point out for one last time that the reason the revenue are hounding us because those gods of men on the co op board pointed out to them there was a 701 cert missing from the '13 conversion, that got the ball rolling then and here we are now

BannerBarry

fepper wrote: »

Will the coop be involved in anyway in these appeals by individual farmers do you think banner

I think the Co-Op are funding the Advise being received right now for the A Suppliers but one of the Kerry Group speakers said they will not be funding individual appeals and court cases.

NovemberJersey

Just to clarify, there's a test case going on and people are going to be taking their own cases too? Sickening as it is I think we should all just pay up and move on with our lives

fepper

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Just to clarify, there's a test case going on and people are going to be taking their own cases too? Sickening as it is I think we should all just pay up and move on with our lives

Sometimes its the best thing to do as the revenue are like a block around your neck at times

NovemberJersey

fepper wrote: »

Sometimes its the best thing to do as the revenue are like a block around your neck at times

Unless any of us win the euromillions lottery then none of us have any chance against the revenue, they can do whatever they want to us

CiarraiAbu2

As far as I'm aware the tax has to be paid before an appeal is made. You can send in a letter before the end if the 28 days stating that you will be making s declaration and ask for an additional sixty days. At that stage you would hope something has been agreed.

Kerry2016

With all the noise that the Co Op board member wasters are making I'd be very interested to know how many of them have received these letters from revenue, generally the more useless a fella is, the more time he spends lying down in bed and the less milk he produces the better chance he has of getting on the board… I told one of the board members lately how much milk I was producing and I swear to god I thought the man was going to get sick on the ground in front of me

BannerBarry

Kerry2016 wrote: »

With all the noise that the Co Op board member wasters are making I'd be very interested to know how many of them have received these letters from revenue, generally the more useless a fella is, the more time he spends lying down in bed and the less milk he produces the better chance he has of getting on the board… I told one of the board members lately how much milk I was producing and I swear to god I thought the man was going to get sick on the ground in front of me

Some of the Directors go in with the intention of doing a good job... similar to Politics.
After a while the monthly cheque may be the main priority than the interests of the members.
The monthly cheque overrides the reason for getting elected in the first place.
Forget the law and the responsibility to acting in the best interests of the members...

Kerry2016

The Co Op board had a meeting last night, anyone hear any feedback from it? There was a meeting on in Listowel Monday night about the Co Op shares and absolutely none of what was talked about at that meeting was listened to by the Co Op board members that were present

They're after voting a most serious communist as the chairman of our Co Op now aswell so things are fairly ****ed, I wouldn't like to have been one of those people who paid €300 for Co Op shares in the past 12 months because this new chairman is known for one thing and one thing only - he's anti absolutely everything that Kerry have ever wanted to do.

Also I think it's beggars belief that our ex chairman Doyle got voted out from the board and the Co Op board took it upon themselves to employ him again and make a big deal out of him after he tried break the company and give more of our shares away. A similar thing happened in a Co Op in north Kerry lately, some fella that was running that Co Op retired and 15 years later he was still turning up for work there calling the shots and the fella who was suppose to be running it was left having to share a desk with someone else

fepper

Kerry2016 wrote: »

The Co Op board had a meeting last night, anyone hear any feedback from it? There was a meeting on in Listowel Monday night about the Co Op shares and absolutely none of what was talked about at that meeting was listened to by the Co Op board members that were present

They're after voting a most serious communist as the chairman of our Co Op now aswell so things are fairly ****ed, I wouldn't like to have been one of those people who paid €300 for Co Op shares in the past 12 months because this new chairman is known for one thing and one thing only - he's anti absolutely everything that Kerry have ever wanted to do.

Also I think it's beggars belief that our ex chairman Doyle got voted out from the board and the Co Op board took it upon themselves to employ him again and make a big deal out of him after he tried break the company and give more of our shares away. A similar thing happened in a Co Op in north Kerry lately, some fella that was running that Co Op retired and 15 years later he was still turning up for work there calling the shots and the fella who was suppose to be running it was left having to share a desk with someone else

Who is the new chairman?

fepper

And the next AGM will be first step in dismantling this little monster I reckon

kerry cow

Farmers are poorly represented by their co op board , the shamefully plc farmer directors and our farming political representatives .shocking . Revenue don't do demands unless they are pretty sure of there footing .They do have the best advisers .
I feel just as sorry for the dry holders and the buyers of Co op shares are it looks like this will go on.and on and on .
Don't be fooled with all the talk , it may not be beyond possibility that this conversion will not happen for 10 or 20 years .
People who want it always look at things from their position , but life has thought me no matter what I think it may not happen that way especially when it's someone else who get to make the call .
And yes I would love to see a conversion as the co op structure serves no purpose any longer and yes milking farmers need to come together under a new umbrella and fright there own corner and release the dry holders .
Time to move on , but when .
Who wants a co op and a chairman .what purpose do they serve .convert and let stan lead .let milk suppliers form new group .

BannerBarry

An investment holding company is being ran under the mask of a Co op.... A co op without one man one vote.
28 top class farmers running a €1.6 billion holding company.

Maybe it's a sign that th new Chairman will be the last ever Chairman of Kerry Co-Op when his father was the first ever... its a nice gesture... but a day in that role is fine for the gesture... They can now convert all the shares and start a new fit for purpose entity for Active milk suppliers linked to Kerry Group PLC shares

kerry cow

Agree , what the point in the co op owning 13% or 5% of the plc .no point and bolting the door when horse ran out 3 years ago .The day stan won the vote .
Like putting on your striker 5 goals down with 2 minutes to go !!!.
Farmers will still own their plc shares after a conversion , whats the problem ? it's not right to hold dry share holders ramson.
Are people thick or what ?
Farmers and mundy need to relies that they need a independent robust group to stick together as kerry dairy farms .
Mundy could ruin his life time reputation in the stroke of a pen but could also propell himself into fame .its all in his hands but we must also repect that he was elected .

Kerry2016

It's sad really isn't it that Mundys father started the Co Op and now he's the own tearing the Co Op down and running it into the ground just because he never became wealthy out of it himself, it's a counsellor that man needs

Also I forgot to mention that our ex chairman was trying to sell our PLC shares that the Co Op have in their trust so he could give out interest free loans to milk suppliers that are gone broke and can't get money off banks or credit unions, I can't see for the life of me why those milk suppliers would have needed to have gone to the bother of paying back the loans of the scheme had it gone ahead… the whole thing would've been completely illegal, the arrogance of those board members that they can do what they want with our shares is sickening… one board memeber said lately that the co op shares should never be converted and that if people wanted to invest their money in Kerry Co Op they should've bought Kerry Group PLC shares instead

kerry cow

I'd be surprised if they haven't a stack of shares .They would be very forward thinking and known to be cute movers .