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MAJOR PROBLEM Kerry Group Old Shares

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    #842
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    You wouldn't be getting a cash windfall on conversion Barry,just a change of share certificate from coop to plc status,its up to each to cash then one at a time or the whole lot or keep onto them as a pension, but at least the plc share is away easier to cash after conversion than a coop share now so no need worrying bout thieving banks at conversion stage


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    #843
    Fixture
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Fixture


    Big three page spread on Kerry shares and farmers in this week's Sunday Business Post....


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    #844
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    Fixture wrote: »
    Big three page spread on Kerry shares and farmers in this week's Sunday Business Post....

    Anything on the Co ops woes?
    Any discussions on the Brian Leslie resignation/departure from the Co op after a month or so only in the post?


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    #845
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Maybe Stan is in line again for Kerry coop ceo later on in the year as no conflict of interest would arise then?


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    #846
    popa smurf
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭popa smurf


    Fixture wrote: »
    Big three page spread on Kerry shares and farmers in this week's Sunday Business Post....

    The figures are impressive alright they have the co op share valued at 360 if I could get that I probably would sell the lot, because I am slightly concerned about my shares being diluted even more and they don't seem to be a lot that I can do about it


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    #847
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    I think the articles about Kerry Group in the Sunday papers were all a bit rubbish tbh

    They keep comparing Kerry Co Op and Glanbia Co Op even though the 2 aren't comparable

    I've personally heard our current chairman talking in the past about leaving something there for the young farmers ie. taking our shares off us and giving them away to strangers… he's not going to get away with it though, he has to be stopped

    The media keep shoving the idea of a Kerry Co Op 2.0 down all our throats, nobody wants it to happen

    The article in the Sunday independent makes a good point, with Kerry Group PLC we have someone there to buy our milk off us at least… Kerry co op 2.0 would be gone belly up before long and then our shares would be long gone and we wouldn't even have anyone to take our milk off us

    Also it looks Glanbia are really doing one over on their farmers atm, if you were to believe the papers it looks like Glanbia PLC wants rid of the farmers so it will be more likely to get taken over


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    #848
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    I think the articles about Kerry Group in the Sunday papers were all a bit rubbish tbh

    They keep comparing Kerry Co Op and Glanbia Co Op even though the 2 aren't comparable

    I've personally heard our current chairman talking in the past about leaving something there for the young farmers ie. taking our shares off us and giving them away to strangers… he's not going to get away with it though,

    Kerry coop gave out patronage shares which young farmers got at that time,so why would Kerry coop now be obliged to give young dairy farmers or any farmer more shares if solely now, a investment type of coop,in that case these farmers should be paying the current share value to be in the club


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    #849
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    To be allowed on the co op board as a director a man should have a minimum amount of co op shares, let's say 2,000 of them

    It's always the case with company's that its top brass must meet a certain shareholding… I remember aryzta's now former CEO got in trouble a year or two ago for selling most of his shares

    Having fellas on our co op board with 100 or 200 co op shares and an annual milk production of maybe 30,000 gallons is a joke, how are the likes of them suppose to represent us


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    #850
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    To be allowed on the co op board as a director a man should have a minimum amount of co op shares, let's say 2,000 of them

    It's always the case with company's that its top brass must meet a certain shareholding… I remember aryzta's now former CEO got in trouble a year or two ago for selling most of his shares

    Having fellas on our co op board with 100 or 200 co op shares and an annual milk production of maybe 30,000 gallons is a joke, how are the likes of them suppose to represent us
    Only 3 of the 28 board members sit on plc who kinda represent Kerry coop shareholders that might or mightn't be dairy farmers,in reality it should be the amount of shares in Kerry plc that should dictate ur place on plc board,again Kerry coop doesn't buy your milk so what makes you think that a coop board member with 2000 coop shares or a board member with 200 coop shares would influence the plc board on milk price that the plc has to pay out of its profits not the coops


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    #851
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    fepper wrote: »
    Kerry coop gave out patronage shares which young farmers got at that time,so why would Kerry coop now be obliged to give young dairy farmers or any farmer more shares if solely now, a investment type of coop,in that case these farmers should be paying the current share value to be in the club

    The difference about giving out patronage shares going forward is 1 it's illegal to treat different classes/minority shareholders differently and 2 the revenue when they re jig their legislation after they loose the Patronage share tax Appeal will tax the bejaysus out of any such tactics.

    Popa Smurf, we can do alot about the future... the Directors work for us and are obliged to act in our interests.

    The board Directors should not be paid a directors fee in cash.....
    They should be given co op shares at the book value of the shares as they fee or remuneration.... This would focus their minds on doing the best for their Co op shareholders... not a cash payment where they keep it even if they run the co op into the ground.


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    #852
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Barry what would the coop shares book value be now?x 6.12 per year? Wind it up now and remuneration wont ba problem


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    #853
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    fepper wrote: »
    Barry what would the coop shares book value be now?x 6.12 per year? Wind it up now and remuneration wont ba problem

    The Book value numbers;

    24.05m Group shares worth €1.75 billion.
    One51 investment €11.8m
    Cash at bank > €20m

    TOTAL KERRY CO OP VALUE €1.78 Billion.

    The shares are worth €450 each book value.

    13,000 shareholders so the amount we average in a 100% conversion is €135,000.

    fellas need to talk to their accountant's to figure out how many lifetimes they'll be milking cows to recoup the money that's sitting in those share certs sitting in the shoebox!

    Wind up Kerry Co Op is the preferred choice of most shareholders..... but fellas are not vocal enough and the Directors could "not know that" s we are not telling them enough of our intentions.


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    #854
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    I suppose we should see if they can wind it up, cos I'm sure there's a myriad of problems they'll come up


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    #855
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    I'm not sure there's an appetite by our board to come up with a prompt solution and efficient wind up of the co op.

    An independent Accountancy firm, given the terms of reference by the shareholders, and reporting directly to the shareholders may be the only efficient route to fix this longstanding problem... the incentive is not present at board level to convert all shares and become redundant.

    The Strategic Review is 4 years old now and the Strategic review is being conducted by some of the Co op Directors....and their solution may be.. let's stay in a job for a few more years and get no feedback from the shareholders and hope they don't give out that much that we are keeping them poor.

    They are reminiscent of Fr Ted getting Douglas off the Milk Float... only solution is say another mass!!!


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    #856
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    That's a great idea of a independent agency examining a exit strategy,do you think if it was properly proposed at AGM that it would be put to shareholders to vote


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    #857
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    What's the strategic review actually mean to be about and how much is it all costing?

    The farming independent website had an article up lately predicting that Kerry Group's trading profit will have risen to €1.5bn a year by 2020 through organic growth and acquisitions, a trading profit of that size would set a share price of around €150… the vast majority of farmers around here have 1,000 Co Op shares left, a 100% conversion will then be worth €1 million to all them farmers… basically if the Co Op convert all our shares every Tom, Dick and Harry will be after becoming a millionaire overnight, how can anyone possibly object to that? In dairy farming these days you'd doing well to break even, you'd have to be milking cows for about 400 or 500 years before you'd have €1,000,000 put away out of it


    Would getting independent accountants to look at the possibility of a 100% conversion cost much do ye think?


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    #858
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    What's the strategic review actually mean to be about and how much is it all costing?

    The farming independent website had an article up lately predicting that Kerry Group's trading profit will have risen to €1.5bn a year by 2020 through organic growth and acquisitions, a trading profit of that size would set a share price of around €150… the vast majority of farmers around here have 1,000 Co Op shares left, a 100% conversion will then be worth €1 million to all them farmers… basically if the Co Op convert all our shares every Tom, Dick and Harry will be after becoming a millionaire overnight, how can anyone possibly object to that? In dairy farming these days you'd doing well to break even, you'd have to be milking cows for about 400 or 500 years before you'd have €1,000,000 put away out of it


    Would getting independent accountants to look at the possibility of a 100% conversion cost much do ye think?
    Way to go for sure,again it has to be shareholders that move on this at AGM and its not anything that the current coop board are doing that will increase the value of coop/plc share,only plc company are capable of increasing this wealth now


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    #859
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    What's the strategic review actually mean to be about and how much is it all costing?

    Would getting independent accountants to look at the possibility of a 100% conversion cost much do ye think?

    I don't know what the Strategic Review is costing but if you remember the Kerry Co op Shareholders meeting in Killarney last March a few Co op Directors got very thick with John O'Cal for saying the Directors are getting "very well paid" for this infinite Strategic Review.

    Remember there's almost €500k expenditure we cannot easily understand from last year's accounts where our Investment holding company spend it.

    They spent 1m.
    The Investment Manager Directors cost 500K.
    They have no employees
    Pay no rent and no Kerry Group staff get any costs. ....
    Where's the other €500k spend... Bank fees???

    I would say to inspect the books an Accountant should be able to do so for 1k.
    There's no transactions only dividend in and dividend out... and pay the Directors.

    To get an Independent Strategic review by an Accountant, questionnaire for shareholders id say 20K.. money well spend from the 1.8 billion kitty.


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    #860
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    BannerBarry wrote: »
    I don't know what the Strategic Review is costing but if you remember the Kerry Co op Shareholders meeting in Killarney last March a few Co op Directors got very thick with John O'Cal for saying the Directors are getting "very well paid" for this infinite Strategic Review.

    Remember there's almost €500k expenditure we cannot easily understand from last year's accounts where our Investment holding company spend it.

    They spent 1m.
    The Investment Manager Directors cost 500K.
    They have no employees
    Pay no rent and no Kerry Group staff get any costs. ....
    Where's the other €500k spend... Bank fees???

    I would say to inspect the books an Accountant should be able to do so for 1k.
    There's no transactions only dividend in and dividend out... and pay the Directors.

    To get an Independent Strategic review by an Accountant, questionnaire for shareholders id say 20K.. money well spend from the 1.8 billion kitty.

    All noted for AGM in the questions & answers session banner


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    #861
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    So it looks like we've been getting fooled all along thinking that the co op board bar Mundy are on €12k a year… with the strategic review they're probably getting about €50k altogether, it's their way of syphoning off money and they're pulling the wool over our eyes


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    #862
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    fepper wrote: »
    All noted for AGM in the questions & answers session banner

    At last years AGM our then chairman James Doyle refused to answer any questions put to him so I wouldn't get my hopes up about this years one


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    #863
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    So it looks like we've been getting fooled all along thinking that the co op board bar Mundy are on €12k a year… with the strategic review they're probably getting about €50k altogether, it's their way of syphoning off money and they're pulling the wool over our eyes

    Honestly I do not know.
    Do Directors expenses for example need to be shown in the Directors pay section of the accounts?

    We don't know but we are entitled to know where that huge sum got spent. It could all be very legitimately spent but if we don't ask like Fepper wants to we are leaving a door open for our money to be drained out of the co op.

    Where's the Corporate Governance a PLC would have on expenditure?
    What's the purpose of this co op?
    What do the shareholders want from this co op?

    It's time for a serious questions and answers for our Directors... even of its at the local mart or outside mass or a gaa game.
    They are supposed to be representing us.


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    #864
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    At last years AGM our then chairman James Doyle refused to answer any questions put to him so I wouldn't get my hopes up about this years one

    They were a lot of sheep at that meeting so he felt in control...


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    #865
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    fepper wrote: »
    They were a lot of sheep at that meeting so he felt in control...

    Doyle won't feel in control at this years meeting anyway at least now that he's been removed as dictator of the co op… I've heard that Mundy looks upto Doyle like he's some sort of God anyway and the 2 of them are the very best of friends so I don't think that us getting rid of him will have made much difference… anyone know what happened that Doyle got voted out?


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    #866
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Doctoryes55 wrote: »
    Doyle won't feel in control at this years meeting anyway at least now that he's been removed as dictator of the co op… I've heard that Mundy looks upto Doyle like he's some sort of God anyway and the 2 of them are the very best of friends so I don't think that us getting rid of him will have made much difference… anyone know what happened that Doyle got voted out?

    I'm sure they do musical chairs at the meetings and poor Doyle was left standing when the music stopped, and Mundy got the chair!!.....


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    #867
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    fepper wrote: »
    I'm sure they do musical chairs at the meetings and poor Doyle was left standing when the music stopped, and Mundy got the chair!!.....

    Priceless one Fepper..Am still laughing..... I wish the process of election was even that fair!


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    #868
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    I think I speak for most shareholders when I say our number 1 fear is that The Co Op board will start giving away huge amounts of co op shares to milk suppliers thus dilluting the value of our current shares and my second biggest fear is that they'd follow through on their ambitions to start buying up hotels using our money and in the end there wouldn't be any of our money left coz they'd be after blowing the lot


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    #869
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Kerry coop don't do milk anymore so why would they give milk suppliers coop shares now,I think that they know that they will be under scrutiny on here anyway so would be aware of this and any decisions they could make


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    #870
    BannerBarry
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 452 ✭✭BannerBarry


    fepper wrote: »
    Kerry coop don't do milk anymore so why would they give milk suppliers coop shares now,I think that they know that they will be under scrutiny on here anyway so would be aware of this and any decisions they could make

    They need to remember we can hire our own Accountant to inspect their books. We need just 7 shareholders to do that. Any misuse of funds now will be front page headlines given the recent profile of this gigantic unregulated Investment Holding company.


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    #871
    Doctoryes55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Doctoryes55


    BannerBarry wrote: »
    They need to remember we can hire our own Accountant to inspect their books. We need just 7 shareholders to do that. Any misuse of funds now will be front page headlines given the recent profile of this gigantic unregulated Investment Holding company.

    And how much would that cost Banner, €1,000 I think you said is it?


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