MAJOR PROBLEM Kerry Group Old Shares

fepper

The land that was sold here was top quality tillage type land in grassland,very deep dark brown soil surface bedded on limestone,priceless in my estimation just to own it

fepper

kerry cow wrote: »

There was only a hand full of worth while parcels of land sold in kerry with alot of crap also sold .If you took the good ground it would be 10k to 12k on average .
It all depends on a neighbour. I have seen neighbour farmers paying up to 12k to 13k for mixed land next door .
The progressive farmers are the ones to spend money and they are the guys to buy land etc but problem is that l their plc shares are gone and the guys who still have them won't sell them for land and unless a conversion comes then alot of land will go at 6k to 8 k per ac .

I suppose the farmers with the plc shares now see that buying middling type land with their shares now could be buying a deprecating land asset and have higher hopes for their Kerry plc shares appreciating instead

BannerBarry

fepper wrote: »

I suppose the farmers with the plc shares now see that buying middling type land with their shares now could be buying a deprecating land asset and have higher hopes for their Kerry plc shares appreciating instead

With Kerry Group back around the €75 mark, although fairly well highly priced at that, they are still more likely to be a better long time investment that Agricultural land.

The earnings of the Group keep rising consistently since 1986 and profits have more than doubled in 10 years. The return from Agricultural land is limited especially if milk price auctions suggests further milk price falls.

The big question is whether our Kerry Co op shares are going to be worth € 450 or €1.25 based on the future actions of our Directors???

fepper

BannerBarry wrote: »

With Kerry Group back around the €75 mark, although fairly well highly priced at that, they are still more likely to be a better long time investment that Agricultural land.

The earnings of the Group keep rising consistently since 1986 and profits have more than doubled in 10 years. The return from Agricultural land is limited especially if milk price auctions suggests further milk price falls.

The big question is whether our Kerry Co op shares are going to be worth € 450 or €1.25 based on the future actions of our Directors???

Jeez Barry those last sentences really scary and puts things in perspective ,and they are parading themselves now as investment guru's (thats scarier)with a investment holding company,at least the potential to realise the €450 per coop share is still hanging in there

BannerBarry

fepper wrote: »

Jeez Barry those last sentences really scary and puts things in perspective ,and they are parading themselves now as investment guru's (thats scarier)with a investment holding company,at least the potential to realise the €450 per coop share is still hanging in there

It should be so simple and a no brainer and yet it's so scary that the power we have not contested by our Co Op Directors can make us realise a €1.8bn value or a €5m value in total for our shares.

It's criminal that this power and potential market manipulation is in the hands of the privileged few and nobody have asked the simple question... What is the direction for out Co op going forward?

It is surely very difficult for Directors to argue that the best course for out €1.8bn assets is Agri Bricks and mortar.
It would be good to rule this option out again with the Agribusiness on Monday - Wednesday night meetings week after next

DembaBa7720

It's all or nothing with the next conversion lads…. Its our last chance saloon to get them all converted, we're lucky to be able to get the 701 tax cert this time around, if a conversion was to take place in 2020 we'd have no 701 tax cert and would have to hand over 1/3 of our shares to Revenue the day they get converted

Stand up and make yourselves heard

It's no good for us all to be talking about what we should or shouldn't have done when the co op board has ran our company into the ground

fepper

DembaBa7720 wrote: »

It's all or nothing with the next conversion lads…. Its our last chance saloon to get them all converted, we're lucky to be able to get the 701 tax cert this time around, if a conversion was to take place in 2020 we'd have no 701 tax cert and would have to hand over 1/3 of our shares to Revenue the day they get converted

Stand up and make yourselves heard

It's no good for us all to be talking about what we should or shouldn't have done when the co op board has ran our company into the ground

So could the coop go for full conversion this year or next year and qualify for the 701 tax exemption,have you new information on the 701 that we are good to go!...

BannerBarry

DembaBa7720 wrote: »

It's all or nothing with the next conversion lads…. Its our last chance saloon to get them all converted, we're lucky to be able to get the 701 tax cert this time around, if a conversion was to take place in 2020 we'd have no 701 tax cert and would have to hand over 1/3 of our shares to Revenue the day they get converted

Stand up and make yourselves heard

It's no good for us all to be talking about what we should or shouldn't have done when the co op board has ran our company into the ground

It's actually worse than the 33% withholding tax to the revenue. It's actually 52% tax as Doyle said.
The revenues argument without 701 is a conversion is an income Distribution like a Dividend and you are takes at the top rate of tax.

We need a 100% conversion as I think your point is 100%. As some shareholders move out of farming through retirement the farmer ownership diminishes and the 701 would not be issued without our Minister for Finance approving it.
Why wait and hope for that???

fepper

Barry,is the 701 still available to us now

BannerBarry

fepper wrote: »

Barry,is the 701 still available to us now

I would think so.
The rule if i remember correctly is we need > 50% of co op members to be deriving their income from farming.
If all the B's are farmers and some C's then we should be over the 50% comfortably.
The issue is further down the line when the retired farmer gives his co op shares to his daughter in Dublin then the % farming reduces and then the 701 is not likely to be granted without the Minister for Finance intervening.... hence we should convert all now and not wait until the shareholders move from farming and cost ourselves millions in tax

DembaBa7720

Does anyone know any co op board members that ye could talk to? Maybe if they were to be asked nicely not to destroy the value of our shares they might oblige

BannerBarry

DembaBa7720 wrote: »

Does anyone know any co op board members that ye could talk to? Maybe if they were to be asked nicely not to destroy the value of our shares they might oblige

I'm not one of the privileged few that knows any directors personally unfortunately. I could not see myself befriending any of them following my opinions on here of their approach to managing our €1.8 billion.
I would say that we do need to all feedback our views to the Advisory Committee members we know, go to the meetings in 2 weeks and ask akaward questions (even if the purpose is mainly for milk discussions) to remind the directors present of what we want as shareholders from Kerry Co Op

fepper

DembaBa7720 wrote: »

Does anyone know any co op board members that ye could talk to? Maybe if they were to be asked nicely not to destroy the value of our shares they might oblige

Last years AGM we were told 701 big problem,you are saying 701 is fine for conversion,so thats what you hit them with and have knowledge of your information,why be nice here,nothing personal here, business is business

fepper

DembaBa7720 wrote: »

Does anyone know any co op board members that ye could talk to? Maybe if they were to be asked nicely not to destroy the value of our shares they might oblige

Still laughing at the schoolyard statement,if I was a board director I'd be laughing at this approach by other shareholders and tell them"GROW A PAIR" (handy to have in Amsterdam)and at the moment the current value holds,doomsday scenarios are speculation as Barry said board has to be open to shareholders on coops forward plan

WWorld707

We're going to be allowed one more 701 tax cert for a share conversion and after that it will basically be impossible to convert shares because we'll be slapped with a tax bill of hundreds of millions of euros if we try convert any more shares then

Long story short, our next conversion will be the last hurrah

Kerry Co Op own 13% of Kerry Group's shares, the co op board want to leave behind 5% of those shares and never convert them. They are saying they want this to happen to stop any future takeovers of Kerry Group… in 2011 when Kerry Co Op reduced its holding in Kerry Group to below 20% from that day on then it became impossible and illegal for the Co Op to try stop any take over of Kerry Group PLC… the co op want to leave the 5% of our shares behind so they can keep onto their wages where they get paid for doing nothing, they get massive expenses allowances each year and last year they spent €500,000 of our money going on holidays all of which was paid for by the co op

I must remind ye that there has never ever even been any speculation as to whether Kerry Group would be taken over, which goes to show how stupid the co ops argument is to leave all those shares in their trust

fepper

Don't the shareholders have to vote again to bring it down under 10%

WWorld707

And also it's worth noting that the co op board are leaving themselves in a perilous situation if they purposely don't let our shares see their full value with the next conversion… they'll be turning their back on the A, B and C shareholders this time around

WWorld707

fepper wrote: »

Don't the shareholders have to vote again to bring it down under 10%

That's besides the point entirely

fepper

WWorld707 wrote: »

That's besides the point entirely

Well it is cos if board propose 5% be kept on by coop,I don't think shareholders will be happy with this(hopefully) and demand full 10% distribution

WWorld707

Fepper I think the problem is that farmers are so desperate at this stage that any size of a conversion will pacify them… anything besides a 100% share conversion this time around is nothing but insanity, the co op board would be purposely costing us hundreds of millions of euros. If they don't convert all our shares I don't know how they can live with themselves, hopefully the board members that have a brain will sort it out for us

BannerBarry

WWorld707 wrote: »

Fepper I think the problem is that farmers are so desperate at this stage that any size of a conversion will pacify them… anything besides a 100% share conversion this time around is nothing but insanity, the co op board would be purposely costing us hundreds of millions of euros. If they don't convert all our shares I don't know how they can live with themselves, hopefully the board members that have a brain will sort it out for us

They would have to have a vote to come under 10% of Kerry Group.
Keeping 5% of the Group wouldn't get them a discount on a handle of a brush.... They can't block any takeover or do anything anymore since coming under 20%.
If they had less than 5% of Kerry Group there would be no some exemption between two companies and the remainder would be taxed to the hilts alright.
That's an act of madness. Is this remainder kept just to keep the Directors monthly payroll going?

Did the Strategic Review result that cost hundreds of thousands come up with that rediculous outcome????

Should there interests be motivated solely by Directors salary should we pay them off Redundancy to f,,k off me wonders?

marno21

plc shares trading above €75 at close today again. With a bit of luck they'll fare better during this year than last.

BannerBarry

marno21 wrote: »

plc shares trading above €75 at close today again. With a bit of luck they'll fare better during this year than last.

An Asian large acquisition when Edmond Scanlon starts would quickly drive the share price into the €80's.
I would think it would send all the right messages to the stockmarket

popa smurf

WWorld707 wrote: »

We're going to be allowed one more 701 tax cert for a share conversion and after that it will basically be impossible to convert shares because we'll be slapped with a tax bill of hundreds of millions of euros if we try convert any more shares then

Long story short, our next conversion will be the last hurrah

Kerry Co Op own 13% of Kerry Group's shares, the co op board want to leave behind 5% of those shares and never convert them. They are saying they want this to happen to stop any future takeovers of Kerry Group… in 2011 when Kerry Co Op reduced its holding in Kerry Group to below 20% from that day on then it became impossible and illegal for the Co Op to try stop any take over of Kerry Group PLC… the co op want to leave the 5% of our shares behind so they can keep onto their wages where they get paid for doing nothing, they get massive expenses allowances each year and last year they spent €500,000 of our money going on holidays all of which was paid for by the co op

I must remind ye that there has never ever even been any speculation as to whether Kerry Group would be taken over, which goes to show how stupid the co ops argument is to leave all those shares in their trust

Is this for real or is it something you have dreamed up yourself, have you a good sourse for this information your posting on here.

popa smurf

This tread has turned in to a joke and can't be taken seriously any more., the original poster kerry 2016 is using several different user names and poping in and out with bits of information that is totally farcical and unfounded ,silly stuff really. Its a pitty really because there is some very good posters on here that provide very good information.

fepper

Yes it can get a bit farcical here at times,at coop AGM last year the board chairman ( mr doyle )said 701 not available so not too sure who's telling the truth here but it has definitely has made us question the ongoing role of Kerry coop "MANAGING" our coop shares for it seems for their own financial benefit and very economical with the truth on the best options for the shareholders benefit and not their own ,before this thread was opened I would never have known what it seems is a lawful SCAM

BannerBarry

fepper wrote: »

Yes it can get a bit farcical here at times,at coop AGM last year the board chairman ( mr doyle )said 701 not available so not too sure who's telling the truth here but it has definitely has made us question the ongoing role of Kerry coop "MANAGING" our coop shares for it seems for their own financial benefit and very economical with the truth on the best options for the shareholders benefit and not their own ,before this thread was opened I would never have known what it seems is a lawful SCAM

The thread has really opened people's eyes to what is going on in this questionable "company" (sometimes) "co op" (sometimes)/ "Holding structure" (sometimes) /"24m Kerry Group share cert poked away in a drawer somewhere" (sometimes).

We now realise some of the potential unethical practices that have been going on with our locked away Co op money.
We here have a forum to educate more shareholders that are not aware of the possibly unlawful happenings.

The C shareholders get to see these posts that contain information that their former Chairman has asked to keep from them at last year's agm.

Popa Smurf, you may be annoyed by some posts but I would rather know what is being said than remaining on the outside and having my share of these priceless (on paper) co op share cert being p***ed away by questionable practices of the top brass.

fepper

A lot of"SOMETIMES" in there Barry,can you see us getting full conversion"SOMETIME"soon

BannerBarry

fepper wrote: »

A lot of"SOMETIMES" in there Barry,can you see us getting full conversion"SOMETIME"soon

I didn't think a full conversion is on the cards at all, it doesn't seem to be in the interests of the top brass.

We need to ask the Co op Directors the very simple question.

1) What is Kerry co ops Creameries ltd purpose?
If it's an Investment holding company like it's accounts say it is?
2) Why are 28, popular in their locality, Farmers running this holding company?

3) What was the terms of reference for the Strategic Review and what was the outcome?

They have been hiding behind tax 701 and all rest but if the company is liquidated in the morning we all pay cgt at 33% on the sale so forget about 701, it's a distraction.
See Fyffes taken over and the shareholders got a cheque in the post taxable at 33%.

4) What controls are in place around the spending of our money in Kerry Co Op holding company?

They are unlikely to offer a conversion let alone 100% conversion if fellas don't push them and remind them they work for us and our interests.

fepper

But Barry those questions you posed is still kinda accepting that Kerry coop should be kept on and working for us but with a noose around our neck,its very existence at this stage is killing conversion