Lough Cutra Spectator Fee

rodneyr1981

Decision reversed. No longer charging.

Kurt_Godel

Dear competitor,

We are sorry to learn that introducing spectator charges, in line with our other events, has caused an issue with some of you. In light of this we have had a re-think and will not do so anymore.

Listening to our community and delivering an event that ticks all your boxes is of utmost importance to us. We have charged spectator fees across all our events as we offer so much free entertainment and access to unique estates. We have witnessed the other estates really benefit for future triathlons from the proceeds of the spectator fee. However we can see from your response that a spectator fee is not going to work for this event.

All spectators are welcome to join this event for free. We may need to adapt the amount of free activity on offer, but we don’t want to upset and disappoint you.

We hope you can put this behind you now and please work with us in delivering an optimum triathlon festival that we have always prided ourselves on the amazing feedback you give.

With best wishes,

Lough Cutra Castle Triathlon team

Well they got rid of the new spectator charge, thats a positive neutral. Personally I found this to be a well-run event the past 3 years, some novel ideas that other Irish Tri's might look at (phased transition open/close for instance), but I'd imagine a lot of good will has been lost. I'll certainly think twice before entering next year, and will be more likely to enter club-run Tri's where there is an option.

tunney

rodneyr1981 wrote: »

Decision reversed. No longer charging.

This merely confirms it was a money grabbing tactic. This event needs to be boycotted from here on - if they will gouge this way this year, that will gouge again next year.

Avoid.
Tell your friends to avoid.
Tell your club mates to avoid.
Tell everyone to avoid.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

You can all untwist your knickers now.

RacoonQueen

Let's hope people don't forget this when entries for next year open up.

Mr Tango

Any positives in this race?

I'd say prize money is a big one. A lot of races now incl national series have effectively no prize money.

The swim is great and bike course is spectacular from memory (did it in the first year).

They made an error re charging for spectators but have reversed that. Should we not be saying thanks for listening?

Kurt_Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Let's hope people don't forget this when entries for next year open up.

I'll remember the quick volte face as something in their favour. Honestly, while I would prefer to support club races, a well-run and enjoyable Tri is the most important factor to me. There are better Tri's than this (Caroline Kearney, Lough Key, many others), but Cutra has a lot going for it, and has been well run previous years. Theres a place too for commercial events- this ill-thought spectator charge will have cost them a lot in the long run, but they did come out with their hands up when called out on it. Capitalism responding quickly to its market means something to me, and the family aspect on the day at Cutra has been second to none (as far as I've seen), so I'll reserve judgement until after this years event.

RacoonQueen

Bishop Fit Warehouse wrote: »

You can all untwist your knickers now.

Did you agree with the charge in the first place?

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I'll remember the quick volte face as something in their favour. Honestly, while I would prefer to support club races, a well-run and enjoyable Tri is the most important factor to me. There are better Tri's than this (Caroline Kearney, Lough Key, many others), but Cutra has a lot going for it, and has been well run previous years. Theres a place too for commercial events- this ill-thought spectator charge will have cost them a lot in the long run, but they did come out with their hands up when called out on it. Capitalism responding quickly to its market means something to me, and the family aspect on the day at Cutra has been second to none (as far as I've seen), so I'll reserve judgement until after this years event.

Maybe it's the athletics girl in me but nothing about this incident washes well with me at all. The very fact they tried this is enough to sully this race entirely for me - absolutely unacceptable move from them and my cynical side firmly believes they will find another way to milk this cash from their competitors next year (and probably this year too if they think they can get away with it).

Their statement is disgusting. It basically says, since you cheapskates wont' pay to watch the event, we won't be putting on any 'free' entertainment. They'll probably charge for the kids bouncy castle now. People at our other events aren't cheapskates though so we'll put on 'free' entertainment for them still.

I can't believe intelligent people are buying this reversal.

johnruns

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Did you agree with the charge in the first place?



Maybe it's the athletics girl in me but nothing about this incident washes well with me at all. The very fact they tried this is enough to sully this race entirely for me - absolutely unacceptable move from them and my cynical side firmly believes they will find another way to milk this cash from their competitors next year (and probably this year too if they think they can get away with it).

Their statement is disgusting. It basically says, since you cheapskates wont' pay to watch the event, we won't be putting on any 'free' entertainment. They'll probably charge for the kids bouncy castle now. People at our other events aren't cheapskates though so we'll put on 'free' entertainment for them still.

I can't believe intelligent people are buying this reversal.

Great post absolutely bang on the button.

BTH

Damage is done in my book. I won't be back even for a free entry. Very likely to see entry fees increase next year to make up the difference.

ShineyShiney

Decent race, overpriced but nice location and well run.

If you compare it to Ironman or Challenge it compares pretty favourably from a cost perspective and delivers a good atmosphere as well but if you compare it to Irish events like kilkee or lost sheep it seems to come up well short.

Nobody seems to care that Challenge is costing €249 for the half and Ironman €290. Ironman delivered a good event last year but challenge is an unknown entity in Ireland, it may be brilliant but we will have to wait and see.

Lough Cutra is €160 just as a comparison.

Why are we as a triathlete community happy to be rogered by Ironman and Challenge but not by Castle Triathlon Series?

I don't see the difference.

The spectator fee was silly and I had a bit of fun at their expense but I still rate it highly as an event and will enter again next year if I get a special like this years St Pats deal. A €5 on the race entry wouldn't have had them compare any worse with the big 2 and they are already seen as expensive compared to the home grown variety so no loss there.

Anyway I'm entered in LC, Challenge and Dublin so I'll compare later.

peter kern

nine out of ten people complaining here have by far more tri gear than their need....
Not saying you dodnt have a point but it seems hypocratial to spend money on power meter , bikes worth thousands of euros you hardly use ,going to races abroad spending a fortune and than complain about 5 euro.
Maybe its time to think aobut your spending habbits for 5 minutes and this thread might really save you money ;-)

mossym

Peter, you get it was spectators they were going to charge right? Most of them have never spent a penny on triathlon and rightly so as they don't compete. Maybe if the posts were about the entry fee (and it has been lots of times ) then your point would be valid. But it's the charging of non competitors is the issue. Last time I looked most of them don't have power meters, bikes worth thousands of euros they hardly use and go to foreign races.

There should be more encouragement to non racers in trying to promote healthy lifestyles. Not Barriers, regardless of how much the fee is. 5 euros not a huge amount. But it's the principle and the message it sends

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Did you agree with the charge in the first place?

No M did not agree with the charge in the first place but was not as outraged as many obviously were on here and social media. Plenty of more important things to concern me than a few euro to have a go on the bouncy castle:)

sconhome

Having been in touch with Castle Tri since this news broke, and with a fair bit of back and forth, in hindsight, it looks like it is meant as a Castle access charge and was extremely badly worded calling it a spectators charge.

All the other venues are open to the public and charge people for access to the grounds. I understand this is what was being introduced here, which is why it was said with 100% certainty that the fee would go to the improvement of the Castle facilities rather than the pockets of the organisers.

Apparently it was in the website, not updated on one section and had been in all the emails sent out this season. I missed it too.

davedanon

Bishop Fit Warehouse wrote: »

No M did not agree with the charge in the first place but was not as outraged as many obviously were on here and social media. Plenty of more important things to concern me than a few euro to have a go on the bouncy castle:)

It's a matter of principle, not cost. €3-5 is obviously small change, the price of a beer or coffee. It's the sheer notion of charging spectators. These are amateur athletes travelling distances to events for the sheer love of it and the personal challenge. It's perfectly normal to want or even need to bring friends and/or family along. Charging them when they're only there to support a paying athlete is simply gouging. End of f*cking story.

Kurt_Godel

Bishop Fit Warehouse wrote: »

No M did not agree with the charge in the first place but was not as outraged as many obviously were on here and social media. Plenty of more important things to concern me than a few euro to have a go on the bouncy castle:)

"OMG you will not believe how outraged this guy gets with the height restriction after paying for a bouncy castle!!!"

davedanon wrote: »

End of f*cking story.

People now joining in from other forums to be outraged on behalf of triathletes... The Castle Tri people tried to shoehorn a new charge, listened to the negative reaction, held their hands up and apologised and said they made an error, and got rid of the charge within 24 hours. There was no bluff or bluster, they reacted to their customers quickly... thats a model way to deal with mistakes, time to move on from the online outrage.

bryangiggsy

I actually just read the race briefing and I'm quite impressed at how well this race is going to be run. Looking forward to it. Isnt Ironman 70.3 dublin now €315 to enter. ? Am sure that includes free vaseline though. I wonder if they have marshalls to apply it.

peter kern

Non of the spectator has complained in the threads so far ;-) only mostly rich atheltes ( the really poor ones the sport has long priced out by all this people that whine on this thread and buy the expensive gear and send the messages that tri ahs to be expensive )

in germany people have to pay to watch the very lowest soccer league and there is no bouncy castle just overweight soccer players.

mossym wrote: »

Peter, you get it was spectators they were going to charge right? Most of them have never spent a penny on triathlon and rightly so as they don't compete. Maybe if the posts were about the entry fee (and it has been lots of times ) then your point would be valid. But it's the charging of non competitors is the issue. Last time I looked most of them don't have power meters, bikes worth thousands of euros they hardly use and go to foreign races.

There should be more encouragement to non racers in trying to promote healthy lifestyles. Not Barriers, regardless of how much the fee is. 5 euros not a huge amount. But it's the principle and the message it sends

davedanon

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I actually just read the race briefing and I'm quite impressed at how well this race is going to be run. Looking forward to it. Isnt Ironman 70.3 dublin now €315 to enter. ? Am sure that includes free vaseline though. I wonder if they have marshalls to apply it.

€315?


Are you Tri people sure that you're not just all being royally taken advantage of by people who see what you're prepared to spend on running/cycling/swimming gear and conclude you're ripe for exploitation?

peter kern

I guess the feedback they got is that the irish athletes prefer a race at a cheaper location for less money.

sconhome wrote: »

Having been in touch with Castle Tri since this news broke, and with a fair bit of back and forth, in hindsight, it looks like it is meant as a Castle access charge and was extremely badly worded calling it a spectators charge.

All the other venues are open to the public and charge people for access to the grounds. I understand this is what was being introduced here, which is why it was said with 100% certainty that the fee would go to the improvement of the Castle facilities rather than the pockets of the organisers.

Apparently it was in the website, not updated on one section and had been in all the emails sent out this season. I missed it too.

mossym

peter kern wrote: »

Non of the spectator has complained in the threads so far ;-) only mostly rich atheltes ( the really poor ones the sport has long priced out by all this people that whine on this thread and buy the expensive gear and send the messages that tri ahs to be expensive )

in germany people have to pay to watch the very lowest soccer league and there is no bouncy castle just overweight soccer players.

can see your point Peter, but we don't usually get many non triathletes posting in the forum. and i can go watch overweight soccer players in Ireland every weekend for free. no charge. maybe castle should look at opening a race in germany where they can charge so? guess all the rich germans are willing to pay...

joey100

I don't see your point at all Peter. People can spend their money on what ever they want, if someone want's to buy 4 power meters and only have 2 bikes, leave them on, they aren't hurting any body and it's their money. Just because they spend money on tri gear doesn't mean they can't complain about the price of race entries or a race trying to charge spectators.

No where on that thread did any complain about the amount that was being charged, no one said '5 euro is too much, 2 euro I'd be willing to pay'. People were complaining about the fact that spectators where being asked to pay. I thought the thread was a good thing and the internet outrage. It showed that people have had enough with charges being introduced at races and said enough is enough. If it had of been introduced at this race you could be sure other races would follow suit and it would soon become the norm.

peter kern

I don't see your point at all Peter. People can spend their money on what ever they want,

i do not disagree with that but why then do you cry when race organicers uses the same liberty.


challenge roth did charge 5 euro at the finsih line 10 years ago to watch the top athletes dont know if they still do but it certainly hasnt become the norm .btw my mum went ballistic as she wasnt to pay the 5 euro ;-) ;-)

joey100

Because people aren't been given the choice. It's my decision if I buy a 500 or 10000 euro bike. My decision.

This race wasn't giving people a choice other than pay or don't go. If they decided to charge 1 euro a go on the bouncy castle that's grand, people can choose to go on that or not. If they decide to charge 3 euro to listen to the live music that's grand and I have no problem with that. If they suddenly decide all spectators have to pay 5 euro I do have a problem with that. Same way I have no problem with races charging more for t shirts separate than the race entry fee, it becomes a choice. Charging all spectators is not a choice.

You can't compare a race like Roth where they have some of the best in the world and charge people to watch the first few finishers to an age group race. But seen as your picking big races, does Roth still do that? Keeping it in Germany do people have to pay to watch Hamburg ITU sprint or relay races?

peter kern

BTW ironically a lot of the people that complain here already pay to watch races already ( itu races )
I watch them free on the net in spanish ;-)

joey100 wrote: »

I don't see your point at all Peter. People can spend their money on what ever they want, if someone want's to buy 4 power meters and only have 2 bikes, leave them on, they aren't hurting any body and it's their money. Just because they spend money on tri gear doesn't mean they can't complain about the price of race entries or a race trying to charge spectators.

No where on that thread did any complain about the amount that was being charged, no one said '5 euro is too much, 2 euro I'd be willing to pay'. People were complaining about the fact that spectators where being asked to pay. I thought the thread was a good thing and the internet outrage. It showed that people have had enough with charges being introduced at races and said enough is enough. If it had of been introduced at this race you could be sure other races would follow suit and it would soon become the norm.

mossym

peter kern wrote: »

BTW ironically a lot of the people that complain here already pay to watch races already ( itu races )
I watch them free on the net in spanish ;-)

now you've lost the point completely. the ones paying to watch itu are the ones that are interested in the sport. those that are spending money on pm's and fancy bikes

there is no irony there.

none of the people here were going to be paying the 5 euros directly (unless paying for family). they either weren't going or were going to get in as a competitor on their entry fee.

if the village needed to be funded then it needed to be added to the entry fee and let people decide if the race was then worth the cost. not sticking the cost on to those who want or are obliged to go because they have friends/family racing.

especially given it was announced after people had entered.

peter kern

nobody has to enter or spectate the race. its your decison too.

and again most people that complin here about 5 euro did an ironman race or do one this year . they could chose the hardman for 60 or so % less money ( ie 350 euro less but dont do so )
its still peoples choice which race they enter and 1300 or so Irish athelte seem to have chosen to pay 550 and 80 to spend 190 last year so there is a clear trend that people want ot pay for razzmatazzz.

interstingly tri an mhi is not on this year as they were worried not enough people enter their cheap race.


I am not aware of many races that charge spectators in triathlon
at the same time its is certainly very common that people pay to watch live sport form very cheap like 3 euro at very low level to veryh high like prmier league
the world series races obviously ripp of the age groupers doing the race . personally i think a small charge for the spectators would be better to finance the WTS races.

joey100 wrote: »

Because people aren't been given the choice. It's my decision if I buy a 500 or 10000 euro bike. My decision.

This race wasn't giving people a choice other than pay or don't go. If they decided to charge 1 euro a go on the bouncy castle that's grand, people can choose to go on that or not. If they decide to charge 3 euro to listen to the live music that's grand and I have no problem with that. If they suddenly decide all spectators have to pay 5 euro I do have a problem with that. Same way I have no problem with races charging more for t shirts separate than the race entry fee, it becomes a choice. Charging all spectators is not a choice.

You can't compare a race like Roth where they have some of the best in the world and charge people to watch the first few finishers to an age group race. But seen as your picking big races, does Roth still do that? Keeping it in Germany do people have to pay to watch Hamburg ITU sprint or relay races?

sconhome

joey100 wrote: »

do people have to pay to watch Hamburg ITU sprint or relay races?

No.

If this was any other language people could understand that something was lost in translation, unfortunately it is English. How or why this ever became a 'spectator fee' is beyond me. It was a Castle grounds access fee the same as all the other private venues.

Why it is now being introduced when there was no access fee previously is another matter. Maybe the Castle is opening to the public, I don't know that but again suggesting that you pay the fee and get access to the free entertainment seems to me to have been very poorly thought out.

The organisers have apologised & pulled any charge so its business as usual.

sconhome

peter kern wrote: »

I am not aware of many races that charge spectators in triathlon
at the same time its is certainly very common that people pay to watch live sport form very cheap like 3 euro at very low level to veryh high like prmier league
the world series races obviously ripp of the age groupers doing the race . personally i think a small charge for the spectators would be better to finance the WTS races.

Mods - it could be well worth splitting this into a separate thread and leave the LC thread for event discussion?

I kinda agree but disagree with a stadium charge for the sport.