Donald Trump

K-9

Indeed, Hillary was polling well in states like Texas before but she hasn't a hope come November.

For example Democrats always win California with the most electoral college votes but it still comes down to 6 or 7 battleground states.

take everything

I don't say this in a bragadocious way but we are so gonna win big with this thread. Some really tremendous posts here.

Anyone who hasn't posted here. What can I say.
Sad!

Samaris

The vice-presidential debate was tonight. Yeah, the thing that no-one watches Although they did in this case, it actually pulled in viewers since this entire election is a TV reality show anyway.

The general response to it seems to be that both were seasoned politicians doing their jobs, although Tim Kaine went on the attack with the whole interrupting thing which has worked in the past, but with Kaine, is a bit like a tiny labradoodle chewing your ankles*. Pence was a lot calmer, avoided anything to do with all the many, many scandals and kept on with the party line.

Early stage chewing over it seems to have it that Kaine might have won on points, but Pence probably won on how he came across and who got their message out most coherently. Probably also won on sympathy due to being savaged by a labradoodle onstage.


*He seems like a nice guy, but the essential labradorness shows even when he's doing his best to be a dobermann. Although I personally find constant interruptions an extremely irritating form of debate whether I'm in it or listening to it.

Calina

Samaris wrote: »

The vice-presidential debate was tonight. Yeah, the thing that no-one watches Although they did in this case, it actually pulled in viewers since this entire election is a TV reality show anyway.

The general response to it seems to be that both were seasoned politicians doing their jobs, although Tim Kaine went on the attack with the whole interrupting thing which has worked in the past, but with Kaine, is a bit like a tiny labradoodle chewing your ankles*. Pence was a lot calmer, avoided anything to do with all the many, many scandals and kept on with the party line.

Early stage chewing over it seems to have it that Kaine might have won on points, but Pence probably won on how he came across and who got their message out most coherently. Probably also won on sympathy due to being savaged by a labradoodle onstage.


*He seems like a nice guy, but the essential labradorness shows even when he's doing his best to be a dobermann. Although I personally find constant interruptions an extremely irritating form of debate whether I'm in it or listening to it.

I've seen the view expressed that Pence was targeting 2020 for himself rather than anything else and that he appears to be fighting a different campaign to Trump's campaign.

So yeah, in four years time Mike Pence should be reminded he was a Trump enabler.

Trent Houseboat

Pence/Cruz 2020
Make America Puritanical Again

Hande hoche!

Pence was on fine form. Imagine that Trump will probably undo that good work, come Sunday.

MeatTwoVeg

Hande hoche! wrote:

Pence was on fine form. Imagine that Trump will probably undo that good work, come Sunday.

Assuming he shows up.

A Little Pony

Put Pence up against Hillary lol. He was great.

Trent Houseboat

A Little Pony wrote:

Put Pence up against Hillary lol. He was great.

Are you suggesting that an establishment career politician would be better in a debate than a narcissistic liar with the attention span of a hand drier who'd never been in a debate before (we don't count the primaries)?

But I thought Trump's big appeal.

A Little Pony

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote:

Put Pence up against Hillary lol. He was great.

Are you suggesting that an establishment career politician would be better in a debate than a narcissistic liar with the attention span of a hand drier who'd never been in a debate before (we don't count the primaries)?

But I thought Trump's big appeal.

Trump needs to be more disciplined and stay on message. He should listen to Farage advice.

pumpkin4life

pumpkin4life wrote: »

The debate wasn't about winning in a rational, technical sense.
The debate was about being more likeable, trying to cancel out your biggest weaknesses for undecided voters.

Trump = crazy unpresidental fùcker.

Clinton = evil Globalist fùcker/health issues.

In that way, I think Trump may have edged it, but to call it a success/disaster for either a big naff.

I think the results from many of the online polls might support this.

Exact same format as the Trump/Hilary debate in terms of the aim of the debate, right down to the choice of clothes and tie color.

Only difference is Pence was noticeably better and more likable than Kaine, whereas the last one was a draw/slight edge to Trump in my opinion. Not that people give much of a crap in relation to VP debates, but a very minor win for the Trump/Pence ticket I'd say.

Exeggcute

Kaine blew that debate.

Both of them told whopping lies as per usual but Pence came across as cool, calm and collected (important when your running mate is Trump) while Kaine managed to be more shrill than Hillary.

pumpkin4life

Exeggcute wrote: »

Kaine blew that debate.

Both of them told whopping lies as per usual but Pence came across as cool, calm and collected (important when your running mate is Trump) while Kaine managed to be more shrill than Hillary.

Yep. Pence did will in terms of cancelling out Trumps weaknesses (unpresidential fùcker) by being calm and level headed, and Kaine did poorly in terms of cancelling out Hillary's (he came across as very snarky and bitchy imo, rather than aggressive and dominant, which was what they wanted) weaknesses, by being even more snarky and bitchy than she is. His interrupting shtick didn't work at all.

Trent Houseboat

A Little Pony wrote:

Trump needs to be more disciplined and stay on message

I don't know if he stays on messages we won't find out important policy details that he's holding close to his chest, like the fact that his 10 year old son is good at cyber or that Rosie O'Donnell was mean to him.

seamus

General opinion seems to be that Kaine went on the offensive at Pence about Trump, while Pence basically just stayed on-message, regardless of whether it contradicted anything Trump said in the past. And it meant that Pence came off looking better - calm and collected, versus on-edge and on the attack.

I wonder though whether his contradictions of Trump, such as on the topics of Russia and abortion, will anger Trump voters though.

Jimoslimos

Calina wrote: »

I've seen the view expressed that Pence was targeting 2020 for himself rather than anything else and that he appears to be fighting a different campaign to Trump's campaign.

Well he better do something to ensure that DT doesn't get elected, otherwise 4 years as VP will be as close as he ever gets to the presidency...unless...the Second Amendment, people!

everlast75

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I don't know if he stays on messages we won't find out important policy details that he's holding close to his chest, like the fact that his 10 year old son is good at cyber or that Rosie O'Donnell was mean to him.

or which sex tapes to watch...

Christy42

seamus wrote: »

General opinion seems to be that Kaine went on the offensive at Pence about Trump, while Pence basically just stayed on-message, regardless of whether it contradicted anything Trump said in the past. And it meant that Pence came off looking better - calm and collected, versus on-edge and on the attack.

I wonder though whether his contradictions of Trump, such as on the topics of Russia and abortion, will anger Trump voters though.

Even if Trump himself did a complete 180 degrees and supported complete open immigration. No walls. No random bluster and insulting people. I still think he would retain his current base. Nothing will shake them. They want to vote for Trump the details after that seem unimportant.

Penn

seamus wrote: »

General opinion seems to be that Kaine went on the offensive at Pence about Trump, while Pence basically just stayed on-message, regardless of whether it contradicted anything Trump said in the past. And it meant that Pence came off looking better - calm and collected, versus on-edge and on the attack.

I'd nearly wonder if Kaine's aggressiveness in the debate was a response to the comments essentially about how boring he is.

Christy42

Penn wrote: »

I'd nearly wonder if Kaine's aggressiveness in the debate was a response to the comments essentially about how boring he is.

I am curious if Kaine was sacrificed to set Trump up. Clinton now has a load of material to divide up Pence and Trump in the next two debates given the differences in their answers.

Granted I doubt it was a strategy but they may be able to take advantage anyway

everlast75

https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/783669207040946176

Trent Houseboat

everlast75 wrote:

https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/s...69207040946176

I wouldn't be surprised if the Clinton campaign didn't have those Trump response clips already pulled and just sent Kaine out with a list of policies to try to get Pence to defend.

Pretty solid rope-a-dope, but still the Veep Off so probably nobody will care.

osarusan

I liked this one.

everlast75

I f**king hate the way this guy talks. It really irritates me. He contradicts himself in the one sentence.

Re Hillary "if you want to know the truth, I don't even think she's been loyal to Bill". His thought isn't the truth!?

his latest one of asking people who are terminally I'll to not die so they can vote for him

"I say this kiddingly, but I mean it" - which is it you cheesy wotsit?

Winterlong

everlast75 wrote: »

I f**king hate the way this guy talks. It really irritates me. He contradicts himself in the one sentence.

Re Hillary "if you want to know the truth, I don't even think she's been loyal to Bill". His thought isn't the truth!?

his latest one of asking people who are terminally I'll to not die so they can vote for him

"I say this kiddingly, but I mean it" - which is it you cheesy wotsit?

He is 'straight talkin' in the eyes of his fans.

I have believed for months that he would defy logic and get elected. But I am wavering on that belief on the final run in. Common sense should prevail I think.
Maybe.

Billy86

Winterlong wrote: »

He is 'straight talkin' in the eyes of his fans.

I have believed for months that he would defy logic and get elected. But I am wavering on that belief on the final run in. Common sense should prevail I think.
Maybe.

It certainly seems so, the latest polls are not looking good for Trump. Posted this on the politics forum, but it's obviously relevant here too...

Latest set of polls at RCP look particularly bad for Trump - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-5491.html

Taking a look at the state polls on RCP, Clinton has a 225 - 165 lead on those likely decided. It is worth noting that neither Pennsylvania nor Virginia are considered 'toss ups' anymore, with both in favour of Clinton: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html

Toss up, Trump leads:
Iowa (6 seats) - 5.0 lead.
Georgia (16 seats) - 4.8 lead.
Ohio (18 seats) - 2.4 lead.
Arizona (11 seats) - 1.3 lead
Total = 38 seats... 213 total.
**This still puts Trump a dozen votes behind Clinton, even without counting her 'toss up' states at present.

Toss up, Clinton leads:
Michigan (16 seats) - 5.0 lead.
Wisconsin (10 seats) - 5.0 lead.
Minnesota (10 seats) - 4.3 lead.
Maine (2 seats) - 3.8 lead.
Colorado (9 seats) - 3.3 lead.
Florida (29 seats) - 2.2 lead.
Nevada (6 seats) - 1.4 lead.
N. Carolina (15 seats) - 1.3 lead.
Total = 97 seats... 323 total.

There is still a month to go and polls will never be 100% accurate of course*, but based on them if the election happened today the result would be:**
Clinton 323 votes vs. Trump 213

*Before anyone says it, the Brexit polls showed 'leave' for several weeks, right up until Tommy Mair murdered Jo Cox 10 or so days before the referendum.
**Yes I know, I am missing 2 votes in there somewhere (it's 538 total!)

Samaris

Winterlong wrote: »

He is 'straight talkin' in the eyes of his fans.

I have believed for months that he would defy logic and get elected. But I am wavering on that belief on the final run in. Common sense should prevail I think.
Maybe.

Overall, I think he will lose. I've definitely had some worried moments, and if some big scandal does hit Clinton, it could swing it. Not to mention that the final debate is the Fox one (although it'd be hilarious if Megyn Kelly moderated it, I suspect they will carefully get a straight white male so people can't complain that Trump was unfairly mederated by a black guy, a gay guy and a woman!)

I'm inclined to agree that Pence is running in 2020. In which case, he better hope that Trump loses. A republican VP running against an incumbent republican would be disastrous for the GOP and they can't really afford another disaster like this one in four years time.

The ideal situation for the GOP would actually be Clinton getting into office, the Reps winning down the ticket, the Republicans get to screw her sideways for four years and block her from doing anything, much as they tried with Obama, and then have a sane, articulate version of Trump in 2020 to run with, while getting to say that Clinton was useless (because they screwed her repeatedly).

God, that's a cynical view of American politics. I deeply suspect it's fairly accurate though.

osarusan

Samaris wrote: »

Overall, I think he will lose. I've definitely had some worried moments, and if some big scandal does hit Clinton, it could swing it. Not to mention that the final debate is the Fox one (although it'd be hilarious if Megyn Kelly moderated it, I suspect they will carefully get a straight white male so people can't complain that Trump was unfairly mederated by a black guy, a gay guy and a woman!)

It will be moderated by Chris Wallace.

Bazzo

I give it 12 hours before Brexit is mentioned 10 times and we get a couple one line posts reminding us that "It's going to be hilarious looking at all the lefty liberal loony SJWs when Trump destroys Hillary".

Samaris

osarusan wrote: »

It will be moderated by Chris Wallace.

Isn't he the one that said it wouldn't be his job to fact-check the caged lions politicians on stage?

What this entire election requires is a great big billboard behind each candidate and every time one of them tells a lie, it flashes red and keeps count.

And maybe a bucket of water gets dropped on them too each time. And after enough lies, the floor opens up behind the podium and they're dropped into a bear cage.

Or at least 1% of the total votes for a candidate gets removed for each lie :P