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Donald Trump

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    #4382
    Side Gate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18 ✭Side Gate


    Most balanced pundits seem to be saying Trump won the debate. If Clinton can't destroy an idiot like Trump after the week he's had she's not fit to be president.


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    #4383
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4384
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    i think it would be more correct to write that as
    they "let" you do it


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    #4385
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    They let you do it. Consent ain't sexual assault.
    You need to update yourself on sexual harassment and sexual assault definitions. By definition, using your position of power or influence to impose yourself sexually on someone else is sexual assault. It's that very power that puts women in the position of 'letting him do it'.

    Here's a definition that should explain it very clearly:
    Sexual assault is any unwanted sexual contact, including unwanted intercourse (rape), unwanted touching, and unwanted kissing. It is a crime of violence, power and control in which sex is used as the weapon.


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    #4386
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    A terrified Woman frozen in fear can't consent......., after a man has grabbed her by her genitalia.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Being afraid of a wealthy man ruining there lives and careers, isn't really consent.


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    #4387
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Side Gate wrote: »
    Most balanced pundits seem to be saying Trump won the debate. If Clinton can't destroy an idiot like Trump after the week he's had she's not fit to be president.

    Which ones?


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    #4388
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Actress Amber Tamblyn describes on her instagram about being sexually assaulted in a similar manner to what Trump gloated about:
    amberrosetamblyn:

    I need to tell you a story. With the love and support of my husband, I've decided to share it publicly.

    A very long time ago I ended a long emotionally and physically abusive relationship with a man I had been with for some time. One night I was at a show with a couple girlfriends in Hollywood, listening to a DJ we all loved. I knew there was a chance my ex could show up, but I felt protected with my girls around me. Without going into all the of the details, I will tell you that my ex did show up, and came up to me in the crowd. He's a big guy, taller than me. The minute he saw me, he picked me up with one hand by my hair and with his other hand, he grabbed me under my skirt by my vagina— my pussy?— and lifted me up off the floor, literally, and carried me, like something he owned, like a piece of trash, out of the club. His fingers were practically inside of me, his other hand wrapped tightly around my hair. I screamed and kicked and cried. He carried me this way, suspended by his hands, all the way across the room, pushing past people until he got to the front door. My friends ran after him, trying to stop him. We got to the front door and I thank God his brothers were also there and intervened. In the scuffle he grabbed at my clothes, trying to hold onto me, screaming at me, and inadvertently ripped off my grandmother’s necklace, which I was wearing. The rest of this night is a blur I do not remember. How I got out to the car. How I got away from him that night. I never returned for my necklace either.

    That part of my body, which the current Presidential Nominee of the United States Donald Trump recently described as something he’d like to grab a woman by, was bruised from my ex-boyfriend's violence for at least the next week. I had a hard time wearing jeans. I couldn’t sleep without a pillow between my legs to create space.

    To this day I remember that moment. I remember the shame. I am afraid my mom will read this post. I'm even more afraid that my father could ever know this story. That it would break his heart. I couldn't take that. But you understand, don't you? I needed to tell a story. Enjoy the debates tonight.

    Its not banter or is being crude or explicit. Trump gloated about sexual assault.


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    #4389
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    And some will not be comfortable letting him do it but just put up with it.

    Jaysus pb, this is pretty basic stuff.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #4390
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    seriously dude, there is no defense to what Trump said, just accept that


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    #4391
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4392
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Natural reaction to being sexual assaulted for some Women. Being unable to stop an assault isn't consent.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Some Women who are assaulted do freeze up actually. Basically, some don't want to be beaten to death. Go figure, some people don't want to die at the hands of someone grabbing them by the genitalia.

    My point is in relation to the claim, that someone not trying to stop an assault is implied consent. It is not. No man has the right to go up to a Woman and grab her by her genitalia, not even Donald Trump.

    BTW, you clearly haven't heard much of what Trump has said about Women, if you actually believe the above statement.


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    #4393
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,788 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful - I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.

    And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything.

    I've bolded the key bits. If we follow what Trump says happens, he just starts kissing them, he doesn't even wait. And because he's famous, they don't stop him.

    That's not consent. That's not consent to being kissed. There's a difference between allowing something to happen and choosing for it to happen. He doesn't ask them, he just kisses them.

    Just because they don't fight him off doesn't mean they consent to it.

    He just starts kissing them. He doesn't even wait. That's the issue.


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    #4394
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,755 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    Yep - can't see anything wrong here...

    Anyhoo - even granting you the win that this tape was taken out of context... there was plenty of other footage out there which demonstrated the view he has of women. How he acted with the former Ms Universe, allowing Howard Stern to call his daughter "a piece of ass", his comments about dating his daughter.. you want to defend any of that? You want to say that these comments do not in any way make him come across as a complete and utter creep?


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    #4395
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4396
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,788 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Yep - can't see anything wrong here...

    Anyhoo - even granting you the win that this tape was taken out of context... there was plenty of other footage out there which demonstrated the view he has of women. How he acted with the former Ms Universe, allowing Howard Stern to call his daughter "a piece of ass", his comments about dating his daughter.. you want to defend any of that? You want to say that these comments do not in any way make him come across as a complete and utter creep?

    Or how about what he said about how, as the owner of the Miss Universe competition, he used to go backstage while he knew they were getting dressed to see them naked.

    #Presidential


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    #4397
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    you forget that "they let you do it," is a quote from trump. just because they dont punch him in the face doesnt mean they "let" him do it.


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    #4398
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    There are probably some despot/dictators saying to their people 'look at what a mess democracy is' while pointing at the US.
    The whole thing is very undignified and neither of them are particularly palatable as president. But one much less so than the other.


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    #4399
    pumpkin4life
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    This is why I used the phrase "girly men" earlier, even if it was maybe not the best phrase to use.

    They can't tell the difference between crude speech (silly, a bit stupid out but who cares) and advocating sexual assault (a more more serious charge). They're just going to believe someone is guilty of sexual assault when the quote "they let you" is right there.


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    #4400
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4401
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the misogyny of some on this thread does not augur well for society.


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    #4402
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    I just gave you the 'definition' a few posts ago.

    It's not a creation of the 'liberal media', it's a definition used in law.


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    #4403
    Elliott S
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Elliott S


    Note on the tape, he actually does neck some Tic Tacs. It's not just a joke. He actually does that. So he spies this attractive woman and immediately prepares for the possibility of kissing her. Hasn't even been introduced to her. Doesn't even know if she'll be fawning all over him. Knows that she'll be in work mode when they are introduced. And still he prepared for the possiblity of kissing her. It's not necessarily planning to assault but it is incredibly creepy and entitled behaviour.


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    #4404
    Shenshen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Sorry, but do you think that defense would fly if one of the North Africans who assaulted women in Cologne last New Year's brought it up? They weren't defending themselves enough, so it must be ok?


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    #4405
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    This is why I used the phrase "girly men" earlier, even if it was maybe not the best phrase to use.

    You are using a misogynist term. What exactly is wrong with being a girl? You imply that it is some how bad or wrong to be girly. Seriously, I expect that from a 5 year old, FFS.
    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    They can't tell the difference between crude speech (silly, a bit stupid out but who cares) and advocating sexual assault (a more more serious charge). They're just going to believe someone is guilty of sexual assault when the quote "they let you" is right there.

    Its pretty clearly sexual assault that Trump was gloating about. You btw don't help your cases, when you use terms like "girly men". You just confirm what most people are saying imho.


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    #4406
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,755 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I added some words and made them stand out in bold, to make a point. No need to get your knickers in a twist.
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You can't take one sentence and think that makes things alright. It has to be in the context of what was said, as one poster was kind enough to set out. "they let you do it" in any ordinary meaning means consent.. but when you put it with the rest of the conversation, with sentences like "I don't even wait" and "grab them by the pussy" then it takes on another meaning. That's the point - context is everything.

    You and I can disagree all day long. The fact is Trump knew he was utterly wrong in what he said (or was just sorry he was caught) and has had to apologise for it.


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    #4407
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    What about the numerous accounts of women saying he sexually assaulted them pretty much exactly as he described himself in the tapes?


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    #4408
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    pumpkin4life wrote: »
    This is why I used the phrase "girly men" earlier, even if it was maybe not the best phrase to use.

    They can't tell the difference between crude speech (silly, a bit stupid out but who cares) and advocating sexual assault (a more more serious charge). They're just going to believe someone is guilty of sexual assault when the quote "they let you" is right there.

    He thinks they let him.

    As a wise man once said "some girls do, some girls don't".

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #4409
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    Has any woman actually come forward and detailed their experience with Trump grabbing them?


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    #4410
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4411
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


This discussion has been closed.
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