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Donald Trump

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    #4922
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/opinion/donald-trump-unshackled-and-unhinged.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=opinion&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article
    As Newsweek reported on Sunday:

    “Jill Harth, a pageant owner trying to work with Trump in the mid-1990s, filed suit against him in federal court in Manhattan in 1997, describing a ‘relentless’ campaign of sexual harassment and assault including an incident in which he reached under a table, put his hands on her thighs and grabbed her ‘intimate private parts’ during a meeting at a New York restaurant.”

    Temple Taggart, Miss Utah 1997, told The Times in May that when she was introduced to Trump, “He kissed me directly on the lips. I thought, ‘Oh my God, gross.’”

    People are defending this guy?


  • Options
    #4923
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,636 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    oik wrote: »
    The airline is relevant because unless you can put them on the same plane together at the same time in seats that have armrests which can be retracted the story has no basis.

    She should be able to remember the year at least and where she was flying from, which could narrow it down to a few planes but her story was extremely vague.

    Have you forgotten your earlier certainty on this?
    oik wrote: »
    I challenge anyone to find a picture of an armrest that can be retracted in first class in a plane from the 1980's.


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    #4924
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Winterlong wrote: »
    At least there was no pivot to talking about ISIS!

    No he did manage to twist it into a warning to ISIS

    'I will come to Raqqa and you won't see me, you won't know I'm there because I won't tell you, but I will watch your women (and what i like to call future women) getting in and out of the tub. I won't say how or when exactly, but I'm going to watch so many captured women of ISIS towelling off it'll make your head spin, believe me... And it'll be EXACTLY what ISIS don't want! Especially with burqa's and things of this nature, the last thing!'


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    #4925
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    oik wrote: »
    The airline is relevant because unless you can put them on the same plane together at the same time in seats that have armrests which can be retracted the story has no basis.

    She should be able to remember the year at least and where she was flying from, which could narrow it down to a few planes but her story was extremely vague.

    you originally said
    oik wrote: »
    The NYT accuser says he lifted the armrest in first class and started groping her.

    I challenge anyone to find a picture of an armrest that can be retracted in first class in a plane from the 1980's.

    is it safe to say that the challenge has been met?


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    #4926
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    osarusan wrote: »
    Have you forgotten your earlier certainty on this?

    No, that's the first step. Next step is putting them on the same plane at the same time.


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    #4927
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,636 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    No he did manage to twist it into a warning to ISIS

    'I will come to Raqqa and you won't see me, you won't know I'm there because I won't tell you, but I will watch your women (and what i like to call future women) getting in and out of the tub. I won't say how or when exactly, but I'm going to watch so many captured women of ISIS towelling off it'll make your head spin, believe me... And it'll be EXACTLY what ISIS don't want! Especially with burqa's and things of this nature, the last thing!'

    Oh man, this actually had me doubled over laughing.


  • Options
    #4928
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    oik wrote: »
    No, that's the first step. Next step is putting them on the same plane at the same time.


    and then when that is done you will be looking for photos of him with his hand on her thigh?


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    #4929
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you originally said



    is it safe to say that the challenge has been met?

    Assuming those seats are in fact from first class, tbh they don't look that comfy, but we'll let that slide.

    Still a long ways to go before the story is any more than a vague rumour.


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    #4930
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    and then when that is done you will be looking for photos of him with his hand on her thigh?

    No, I would just like there to actually be a shred of evidence they had actually met before I believe he assaulted her.

    Because right now this story is not fuelled by evidence it's fuelled by confirmation bias.


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    #4931
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Candie wrote: »
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/opinion/donald-trump-unshackled-and-unhinged.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=opinion&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article



    People are defending this guy?
    How come whenever accusations like this are made people seem to conveniently come out of the woodwork to back up the claims.

    I'm not saying trump is innocent, I have no problem believing he's that kind of man. I just find the fact that there's people waiting in the wings for their turn to be a bit convenient. Is it just the press ignore these things until they become a popular news story, that no one listens to these people until it becomes a popular story?


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    #4932
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    osarusan wrote: »
    Oh man, this actually had me doubled over laughing.

    The mad thing is that was basically his answer to the tape in the debate.

    I suppose people are so immune to his craziness it
    needs to be pointed out Trump is immune to satire. You can't exaggerate what Trump says.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Options
    #4933
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    ScumLord wrote: »
    How come whenever accusations like this are made people seem to conveniently come out of the woodwork to back up the claims.

    I'm not saying trump is innocent, I have no problem believing he's that kind of man. I just find the fact that there's people waiting in the wings for their turn to be a bit convenient. Is it just the press ignore these things until they become a popular news story, that no one listens to these people until it becomes a popular story?

    Well in fairness we have evidence of this effect from powerful famous people like saville, once one person spoke out and was taken seriously the floodgates opened. I'm not making a judgement on it but its not a unique phenomenon.


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    #4934
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ScumLord wrote: »
    How come whenever accusations like this are made people seem to conveniently come out of the woodwork to back up the claims.

    I'm not saying trump is innocent, I have no problem believing he's that kind of man. I just find the fact that there's people waiting in the wings for their turn to be a bit convenient. Is it just the press ignore these things until they become a popular news story, that no one listens to these people until it becomes a popular story?


    Some of it is down to people who are willing to come forward now because somebody might actually believe them given the other revelations about trump. In other cases the accusations are not new and are regurgitated because they are relevant again.


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    #4935
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    ScumLord wrote: »
    How come whenever accusations like this are made people seem to conveniently come out of the woodwork to back up the claims.

    I'm not saying trump is innocent, I have no problem believing he's that kind of man. I just find the fact that there's people waiting in the wings for their turn to be a bit convenient. Is it just the press ignore these things until they become a popular news story, that no one listens to these people until it becomes a popular story?


    One of the elements of her story is that she only decided to come forward on Friday.

    How did both women just happen to contact the same newspaper in such a short space of time despite the fact that only one of them lives in NY.

    Some of these stories could be true, but when they all come as an avalanche there's a tendency to suspend scepticism and think "well at least one of them must be true". Not necessarily.


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    #4936
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    oik wrote: »
    No, I would just like there to actually be a shred of evidence they had actually met before I believe he assaulted her.

    Because right now this story is not fuelled by evidence it's fuelled by confirmation bias.

    do you think she is lying?


  • Options
    #4937
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    ScumLord wrote: »
    How come whenever accusations like this are made people seem to conveniently come out of the woodwork to back up the claims.

    I'm not saying trump is innocent, I have no problem believing he's that kind of man. I just find the fact that there's people waiting in the wings for their turn to be a bit convenient. Is it just the press ignore these things until they become a popular news story, that no one listens to these people until it becomes a popular story?

    Yeah, nobody ever talked about priests fiddling with kids until the 90's so...

    Maybe people decide to come forward because nobody would listen otherwise. It isn't as if all this is news though, similar stuff was out there in the 90's.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Options
    #4938
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    do you think she is lying?

    I'm sceptical but I don't have enough information to make that judgement.

    I think the "journalists" are a disgrace for not asking any probing questions like "what year was it?" "where were you flying from" etc. before going to print on a major hit piece on a presidential candidate.


  • Options
    #4939
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    oik wrote: »
    The airline is relevant because unless you can put them on the same plane together at the same time in seats that have armrests which can be retracted the story has no basis.

    So strange about this retractable arm rest thing. Plenty of first class sections in smaller aircraft have seats that are the same seats as in coach, the only difference is a curtain between the two sections. 737's for instance, the most common jet plane in the world.


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    #4940
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Remember Ken Barlow.

    eb54d62fb4e574875a54dc3fb74a2669.png


  • Options
    #4941
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    oik wrote: »
    Remember Ken Barlow.

    eb54d62fb4e574875a54dc3fb74a2669.png


    LOL. bit of a desperate reach i think.


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    #4942
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    So strange about this retractable arm rest thing. Plenty of first class sections in smaller aircraft have seats that are the same seats as in coach, the only difference is a curtain between the two sections. 737's for instance, the most common jet plane in the world.

    Well, that's the detail I'm focusing on because it's the only detail she included in her story. If there were more details we'd have more to go on.


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    #4943
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    InTheTrees wrote:
    So strange about this retractable arm rest thing. Plenty of first class sections in smaller aircraft have seats that are the same seats as in coach, the only difference is a curtain between the two sections. 737's for instance, the most common jet plane in the world.


    Many aircraft can also re-configure seats to turn 3 Coach into 2 Business/First. Internal flights in the US are often quite basic; "First" is nothing like what you get on long haul.


  • Options
    #4944
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    oik wrote: »
    Remember Ken Barlow.

    eb54d62fb4e574875a54dc3fb74a2669.png

    Remember Rolf Harris

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rolf-harris-trial-entertainer-known-as-the-octopus-for-wandering-hands-court-told-9344507.html


  • Options
    #4945
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    LOL. bit of a desperate reach i think.

    Remember Herman Cain then.


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    #4946
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    oik wrote: »
    I'm sceptical but I don't have enough information to make that judgement.

    I think the "journalists" are a disgrace for not asking any probing questions like "what year was it?" "where were you flying from" etc. before going to print on a major hit piece on a presidential candidate.
    Journalists who write false stories tend to get found out when they're sued. Newspapers are very careful to only publish what they know as fact and what can be defended in court.

    They have legal departments for that kind of thing apparently. :rolleyes:


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    #4947
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    RasTa wrote: »
    Remember Rolf Harris

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rolf-harris-trial-entertainer-known-as-the-octopus-for-wandering-hands-court-told-9344507.html

    I remember they actually used evidence to get him.


  • Options
    #4948
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,447 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    oik wrote: »
    Remember Herman Cain then.


    you mean the guy with a history of wandering hands who had to pay off the women he harassed?


  • Options
    #4949
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    oik wrote: »
    One of the elements of her story is that she only decided to come forward on Friday.

    How did both women just happen to contact the same newspaper in such a short space of time despite the fact that only one of them lives in NY.

    Some of these stories could be true, but when they all come as an avalanche there's a tendency to suspend scepticism and think "well at least one of them must be true". Not necessarily.

    :pac:

    Yeah, I wonder what happened Friday that could have caused both of these woman to decide that the time was now right to come forward?

    Just random happenstance I guess! :rolleyes:


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    #4950
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Journalists who write false stories tend to get found out when they're sued. Newspapers are very careful to only publish what they know as fact and what can be defended in court.

    They have legal departments for that kind of thing apparently. :rolleyes:

    The New York Times is owned by Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim, who's not in it to make money.

    It was loss making when he bought it and it still is. The whole industry is running on patronage rather than profit.

    Carlos Slim would stand to lose a lot of money if Trump became president and delivered on his immigration and trade promises.

    He's probably the single biggest beneficiary of NAFTA.

    He would gladly pay whatever damages there are in court to sink Trump's campaign.


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    #4951
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    Well in fairness we have evidence of this effect from powerful famous people like saville, once one person spoke out and was taken seriously the floodgates opened. I'm not making a judgement on it but its not a unique phenomenon.
    Jimmy Savile and the priest existed in a different environment though. The overall atmosphere prevented the stories from making it past a first report. They had institutions to protect them.

    I just find it odd serious offenses like these can go ignored until they make a better story. I guess if the women were working in the same industries as trump, or even ones that over lapped Trumps, they wouldn't want to risk their careers making accusations against him.

    But trump is not universally loved and never has been, I would have thought in his line of work there would be people just waiting for any excuse to go after him. Although maybe in his social circles no one wants to rock the boat in case they come under the spotlight too.


This discussion has been closed.
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