Donald Trump

Christy42

oik wrote: »

The danger is that they would have to go to war to defend an ally.

What if the ally in question hasn't paid all their bills?

Seems like Trump is also pretty useless in this situation.

oik

BoatMad wrote: »

all large military powers ultimately dont have allies just interests ( not me that said that ) . Thats not a good or bad thing , its merely a statement of reality

the US foreign policy is not based on esoteric morals or evaluations of angels on the head of a pin, its primarily designed to serve its long term interests

That, when you look at it ,is right and proper and realistic

whats sold to the " common man" is of course just propaganda

They have mutual defence treaties.

oik

Christy42 wrote: »

What if the ally in question hasn't paid all their bills?

Seems like Trump is also pretty useless in this situation.

It would be better for America if NATO allies were able to defend America rather than relying on America France and the UK.

Christy42

oik wrote: »

It would be better for America if NATO allies were able to defend America rather than relying on America France and the UK.

I wasn't aware that America required defending from other military powers (outside of crazy Trump statements of ISIS invading during Hillary's presidency).

Anyway seems off the topic being discussed?

BoatMad

oik wrote: »

They have mutual defence treaties.

mutual defense treaties are a joke they are broken more times than acted upon , Europe have comprehensive defense treaties , yet Germany was allowed to annex considerable parts of Europe before anyone acted.

A major power like the US, has no need to pay any attention to any military treaty , it only acts if its in its interest to act. Trumps various outbursts that pass for laughable idea of a foreign policy , involves actions that would cause world chaos , well even more world chaos that the US has already caused. ( nuke em etc )

Calina

oik wrote: »

It would be better for America if NATO allies were able to defend America rather than relying on America France and the UK.

I think you may have meant "If NATO allies were able to defend themselves rather than relying on..." rather than being able to defend America.

The realpolitik of the post WWII world is that to a great extent, the US dictated the abilities of other countries like the UK rather than brought about a situation where they could defend themselves. It is not, for example, truly in the US's interest for the EU to have a viable defence force because it reduces the amount of influence they can bring to bear.

IMO, I suspect you'll find that Trump's comments about reneging on NATO's commitments earlier in the year are of serious interest to any country which shares a land border with Russia, in the context of what has happened in the Ukraine. I'm aware that Finland in particular is increasingly concerned about its prospects if the geopolitical balance shifts again and movements of Russian fighter planes and submarines are of interest to a lot of foreign affairs departments in Europe at the moment.

The problem for the US is that Trump is prepared to damage that balance and potentially the influence which the US has around the world. This may or may not be a good thing depending on where you are but if you are American, it is probably a bad thing.

BoatMad

The realpolitik of the post WWII world is that to a great extent, the US dictated the abilities of other countries like the UK rather than brought about a situation where they could defend themselves. It is not, for example, truly in the US's interest for the EU to have a viable defence force because it reduces the amount of influence they can bring to bear.

+1

IMO, I suspect you'll find that Trump's comments about reneging on NATO's commitments earlier in the year are of serious interest to any country which shares a land border with Russia

In not sure that any of these countries are counting on US help in any serious way anyway

in the context of what has happened in the Ukraine. I'm aware that Finland in particular is increasingly concerned about its prospects if the geopolitical balance shifts again and movements of Russian fighter planes and submarines are of interest to a lot of foreign affairs departments in Europe at the mome

what happened in the Ukraine, is that Putin knew that the US was occupied in the ME and that Europe is toothless.

The problem for the US is that Trump is prepared to damage that balance and potentially the influence which the US has around the world. This may or may not be a good thing depending on where you are but if you are American, it is probably a bad thing.

The problem most likely is that Trump is devoid of any intelligence, has no idea of any strategic foreign policy, and thinks that world affairs can be settled with a " lets go out the back buddy " policy approach.

More then likely in that case Trumo would be led around by the nose by apparatchiks in the state department that have a particular agenda, Look at how GWB was used as a puppet by Wolfowitz , runmsfeld and the neocons

Calina

BoatMad wrote: »

In not sure that any of these countries are counting on US help in any serious way anyway

Maybe, maybe not. But I suspect they were counting on it as a reasonable deterrent. Otherwise they would not have joined.

BoatMad

Calina wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. But I suspect they were counting on it as a reasonable deterrent. Otherwise they would not have joined.

The reason for NATO is tied up in many things , so lets not descend into that debate.

The mere membership of a defense treaty has not proven to be very useful in general

Outlaw Pete

seamus wrote: »

It's the O'Reilly factor.

I was joking, Seamus.

jobbridge4life

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Is calling Clinton an experienced politician a good thing? I have a colleague in my work and he is experienced, he is fu*king useless and I wouldn't let him make the tea if I had my way but he is still has experience at his job.

The fact that Clinton won't have to wonder around the White-house aimlessly on her first day looking for a toilet is hardly going to make her a better President.

Except that's not remotely what anyone means when they say 'experienced' in this context is it?

Experienced means being aware of the incredible complexity of even outwardly simple political matters. Experienced means understanding that in politics a relationship between two parties can involve multiple other stakeholders. Experienced means knowing that words matter even in ways you can't fully comprehend before you speak and acting accordingly. Experienced means that understand that false binaries such as good and evil have no place in politics and in fact are positively dangerous.

On every count Donald has shown himself to be manifestly unfit and unable to fulfill the role of President.

I still think he will win. I hope with every fiber of my being that he doesn't.

dissed doc

jobbridge4life wrote: »

On every count Donald has shown himself to be manifestly unfit and unable to fulfill the role of President.

[/QUOTE]
You are correct - the role of the president does mean traditionally being completely in the pocket of large banks and corporations, with the role being to approve contracts for all of them and suck dry any normal person, any "deplorable".

In that sense, Trump completely fails to have been in the pocket of Goldman Sachs, to have octopus arms in every media pie so much that 90% of it is supporting him regardless of what he does. Hillary is a way better "President" - she is corrupt, brutal, dishonest and has done and will continue to wreak havoc around the world if elected. A much better President.



Has he actually done anything as appalling as Clinton? Nope, not even close! He doesn't even have his detractors executed. What a loser. He hasn't even killed a few hundred thousand north Africans in drone strikes and destabilised the middle east and pushed for war with Russia. What a complete no-hoper! Get that man off the podium!

We need guns, we need war, and we need poverty - we need Clinton!

PopePalpatine

Cheeto Jesus has called on his supporters to find an accuser's Facebook page.

Classy as ever. :rolleyes:

jobbridge4life

dissed doc wrote: »

You are correct - the role of the president does mean traditionally being completely in the pocket of large banks and corporations, with the role being to approve contracts for all of them and suck dry any normal person, any "deplorable".

In that sense, Trump completely fails to have been in the pocket of Goldman Sachs, to have octopus arms in every media pie so much that 90% of it is supporting him regardless of what he does. Hillary is a way better "President" - she is corrupt, brutal, dishonest and has done and will continue to wreak havoc around the world if elected. A much better President.



Has he actually done anything as appalling as Clinton? Nope, not even close! He doesn't even have his detractors executed.

OOOooohhh. An international conspiracy of bankers and the media... enemies behind every hooked nose *ahem* corner, tell me now where I have heard that talk before?

Trumpsters proving that hate is never satiated and always needs new people and victims to fuel the fire that powers its engines. Attacking Mexicans and Muslims didn't fill you up? Of course not, now you need to engage in anti-Semitic dog whistles to keep that fire in your twisted belly going.

You shame yourself and your parents.

dissed doc

jobbridge4life wrote: »

OOOooohhh. An international conspiracy of bankers and the media... enemies behind every hooked nose *ahem* corner, tell me now where I have heard that talk before?

Trumpsters proving that hate is never satiated and always need to consume more and more people. Attacking on Mexicans and Muslims didn't full you up? You need to do anti-Semitic dog whistles to keep that fire in your twisted belly going?

You shame yourself and your parents.

Hey call me whatever names you want. Scream out in anger at Donald Trump. Get it off your chest - it's something people go through on their to adulthood and realising other people don't have the same viewpoints and opinions as you.

Only Hillary has shown her credentials as a true dog of war. Trump is a capitalist and war is bad for his type of business.

But Hillary? Wow. A master at work. You must be proud that she is doing all the killing

Me? I have a different opinion to you. So call me all the names you want, bully boy.

jobbridge4life

dissed doc wrote: »

Hey call me whatever names you want. Scream out in anger at Donald Trump. Get it off your chest - it's something people go through on their to adulthood and realising other people don't have the same viewpoints and opinions as you.

Only Hillary has shown her credentials as a true dog of war. Trump is a capitalist and war is bad for his type of business.

But Hillary? Wow. A master at work. You must be proud that she is doing all the killing

Me? I have a different opinion to you. So call me all the names you want, bully boy.

The only name I called you is a Trumpster. If you prefer I can call you a Trump fan, you choose, I'm a liberal like that.

Trump is no capitalist. I'd have far more respect for him if he were. He is a serial bankrupt and a scion of wealth, a crony-capitalist if ever there was one.

There are others here you can bait with your 'Hillary as wardog shtick, as a proud internationalist, I'm not one of them.

Your candidate has talked about slaughtering innocents, your candidate has talked about using a nuclear bomb on a country just within reach of Europe's borders. Your candidate has encouraged other countries to acquire nuclear weapons. You own all this honey. Love it girl, don't pretend like he is a something else just own your warmongering.

gosplan

dissed doc wrote: »

Hey call me whatever names you want. Scream out in anger at Donald Trump. Get it off your chest - it's something people go through on their to adulthood and realising other people don't have the same viewpoints and opinions as you.

Only Hillary has shown her credentials as a true dog of war. Trump is a capitalist and war is bad for his type of business.

But Hillary? Wow. A master at work. You must be proud that she is doing all the killing

Me? I have a different opinion to you. So call me all the names you want, bully boy.

So no credentials is good?

And you expect Trump to make international relations decisions based on his personal businesses.

Awesome!!!

hmmm

What happens if he is arrested before the election? Today's accusations are verging on attempted rape, could worse emerge?

Capt'n Midnight

BoatMad wrote: »

PS; Armies that were weaker only get attacked if they go into other peoples countries, the US might find staying at home to be a policy both the us peoples, and the worlds populations applaud

That's just crazy talk.

Obamacare is going to cost $1.34 trillion over the next decade.

That's nearly a third of the low estimate of the full cost to the US of the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan.

ebbsy

hmmm wrote: »

What happens if he is arrested before the election? Today's accusations are verging on attempted rape, could worse emerge?

It can't be any worse than sitting back and watching the bodies of dead kids being washed up on beaches, or seeing people being slaughtered around Europe.

Clinton is a terrible person. Obama's wife is a terrible person as well. She talks about rumours that have yet to be proven, while her husband allows Syria to be murdered.

Good job he is going soon. One of the worst ever.

First Up

Yes, he spent the last 8 years dealing with the mess he inherited from the idiot Bush and his neocon puppet masters. And now you want an even bigger imbecile in charge.

Smart.

PopePalpatine

Yep, I can really see Cheeto Jesus saving kids from drowning in the Mediterranean.

Will he fuck.

bajer101

Where is all this evidence that will prove that the groping allegations are false? It was meant to be released by now according to Pence.



http://www.today.com/news/mike-pence-today-show-says-evidence-disproving-trump-s-accusers-t103941

arayess

First Up wrote: »

Yes, he spent the last 8 years dealing with the mess he inherited from the idiot Bush and his neocon puppet masters. And now you want an even bigger imbecile in charge.

Smart.

of course trump is an imbecile...:rolleyes:
how lucky we are that after all these years in the public eye , it was you that finally showed us the light.

InTheTrees

bajer101 wrote: »

Where is all this evidence that will prove that the groping allegations are false? It was meant to be released by now according to Pence.

He said he couldn't have assaulted one of them because she wasn't attractive enough.

Un-fcuking-believable.

I've been watching some republican senators election ads and they're all going anti-trump as fast as they can. They're all falling over themselves to claim they never supported trump.

First Up

arayess wrote:

of course trump is an imbecile... how lucky we are that after all these years in the public eye , it was you that finally showed us the light.

Happy to oblige.

bajer101

It's interesting to observe the Trump supporters continuing to support him through progressively worse revelations. It reminds me of the adage of placing a frog in a pan of water and gradually increasing the heat. The frog doesn't notice any difference until suddenly it is dead.

This is what has happened with Trump supporters. They have defended each revelation, little by little, until they have reached the position we are now in, where they find themselves defending obvious sexual abuse.

InTheTrees

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Yup.
Politics is a dirty game. Have to figure it's Clintons team spurring this on.

I love how the Clinton campaign have handled Trump. They knew just how to handle an egotistical narcissist just right. He was totally played like the loser he is.

I love how he threatened to bring up bill's history after the first debate and just look how that's worked out for him.

conditioned games

After Bush and Obama the country is in a mess, only hope left for them is Trump. Love to see him do it but with the establishment and controlled mainstream media against him it has placed him at a huge disadvantage compared to the puppet Clinton. So sad to see people brainwashed by the ruling elite.

If he does go on to lose, as now seems probable, the amusing thing will be that he was completely hoist by his own petard, his belief that his attitude to women was acceptable, indeed his boasts about his tactics.

Again, the Republicans must wonder how they let Jeb Bush slip through the net. He'd certainly have been able to get big numbers amongst the Catholic and Hispanic voters, and across the Southern States.